I am just curious. What do parents expect from a select baseball coach? What do players expect from a select baseball coach? Please educate the uneducated.
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As a parent, if your kid joins a league affiliated select baseball team then the player's goal should be to do everything possible to help that team achieve its goal of playing in its league championship tournament. That is similar to what the high school team's ultimate goal is - to win a state championship. These are teams in the truest sense of the word.
If a player cannot committ to that type of team and wants to put his personal goals ahead of the team (and I am not saying there is anything wrong with that) then he should look for another type of select team that will facilitate his coming and going to play in certain tournaments. There are teams like that - they certainly fill a need.
What would be a good compromise by the showcases, camps, and all-star games is if they could somehow put off most of their events until August to allow those players who want to compete with a high level select team to finish up that team's season before embarking on the showcase and all-star circuit.
There is something very valuable to be gained by playing on a high level league affiliated select team. As a parent, and no longer a player, I cannot imagine spending a summer attending a bunch of events playing for myself and not even knowing any of the boys I am on the field with. That just doesn't sound like baseball to me, but then again I am very old (42 years old).
If a player cannot committ to that type of team and wants to put his personal goals ahead of the team (and I am not saying there is anything wrong with that) then he should look for another type of select team that will facilitate his coming and going to play in certain tournaments. There are teams like that - they certainly fill a need.
What would be a good compromise by the showcases, camps, and all-star games is if they could somehow put off most of their events until August to allow those players who want to compete with a high level select team to finish up that team's season before embarking on the showcase and all-star circuit.
There is something very valuable to be gained by playing on a high level league affiliated select team. As a parent, and no longer a player, I cannot imagine spending a summer attending a bunch of events playing for myself and not even knowing any of the boys I am on the field with. That just doesn't sound like baseball to me, but then again I am very old (42 years old).
Please be gentle. This is my first time to respond. I don't have some of the saavy of many of the regular posters here, so I just might be way out of my league ... but ... what are we looking for? We want our son to play for a team where he is the middle rung player and has to play up to the first string. We want him challenged to earn a spot. We want an honest coach. One that will communicate and not leave us in the dark about why our kid is sitting on the bench and we've paid $1,500 to play for this team. Is it our son's attitude? Is he goofing off? Is he being punished for some reason? We don't want to argue about why. We just want to know why so we can address it with our son, if need be. If it is his bat. Tell us. We can get him some extra help. Just communicate. Please don't act as if we don't matter. Oh, I get that this is not popular, but we want to be involved. We want a coach to support. We want a coach to drive our son. Again, please be gentle. We are just dipping our toes into this and are probably in for a rude awakening, but I guess while we pay the bills, we want to have the open dialog.
What I wanted when my son played was to play against the best competition possible. Everything else wil come.
I would like the coaches who resent parents to remember that the parents foot the bill and need to be dealt with. A coaches inability to do that or deal with parents is his fault. Parents should do their himework. So should coaches. If you know a kid and his parents are going to be a problem, don't take him.
To expect parents to foot the bill and then shut up was fine at 300 or 400 dollars, but at 3-5K for a total summers expenses (including family travel) they have a vested interest and a big investment. That doesn' mean a coach has to kowtow, but he better have rules and regs and set it out front what is expected and what the consequences are. He also better to have the guts to enforce his own rules. Don't use a player who breaks the rules and then complain about it. That is just as bad as the whiny parent.jmo
It is a 2 way street.
I would like the coaches who resent parents to remember that the parents foot the bill and need to be dealt with. A coaches inability to do that or deal with parents is his fault. Parents should do their himework. So should coaches. If you know a kid and his parents are going to be a problem, don't take him.
To expect parents to foot the bill and then shut up was fine at 300 or 400 dollars, but at 3-5K for a total summers expenses (including family travel) they have a vested interest and a big investment. That doesn' mean a coach has to kowtow, but he better have rules and regs and set it out front what is expected and what the consequences are. He also better to have the guts to enforce his own rules. Don't use a player who breaks the rules and then complain about it. That is just as bad as the whiny parent.jmo
It is a 2 way street.
My main expectation from a select coach -- and I suppose I should differentiate between one that is a volunteer and one that is paid -- is that he use his baseball expertise to help my son become a better baseball player. Sounds too generic, eh?
I think he should be willing to identify strengths and weaknesses and to design a plan to help overcome the weaknesses, whether they be mental, physical, mechanical, or all of the above. And yes, I think in most cases that has to be an individual plan. I understand that it is NOT his job to 1) keep everyone happy, 2) coddle spoiled kids or their parents, 3) provide hours of private instruction -- over and above time spent with the team, or 4) babysit at out-of-town events. However, it may involve honest personal communication with the player and/or his parents....and it may require much patience. Depending on the age group, some kids require ongoing reinforcement, especially if the adjustments are mechanical. Before I continue, I want to make sure that I am not taken out of context -- I like & support my son's current summer coach (Curt Lowry) and his assistants. They are good baseball men and I trust them to play a part in PantherSon's development. We (PantherFamily) are very fortunate. My expectations include more than game management. I happen to think that is the easiest part of the job. In order for a summer team to excel, I think the coach needs practice time with his kids -- more than pre-game. And, he may need to plan a multi-faceted practice so all benefit <-- tough challenge. I think a coach has to be almost unwilling to give up on a kid, i.e., a long rope <-- another difficult task.
In light of these things, my son did not have a great summer, but we were able to identify several things to work on and I believe he will use his "baseball downs" as motivation to improve. Just so no one worries, I love him as much as always and think there are many UPs ahead.
This is the first year that we have paid a coach. I think his influence was a key ingredient in our team's success....so, it was money well spent. I do not expect Curt to make sure Jeff is "seen" or "exposed". I think associating with a solid organization will help with those things. But, you didn't ask for expectations from an organization, did you? 
Oh....I expect the coach to win a few coin tosses along the way -- practice, practice!
I think he should be willing to identify strengths and weaknesses and to design a plan to help overcome the weaknesses, whether they be mental, physical, mechanical, or all of the above. And yes, I think in most cases that has to be an individual plan. I understand that it is NOT his job to 1) keep everyone happy, 2) coddle spoiled kids or their parents, 3) provide hours of private instruction -- over and above time spent with the team, or 4) babysit at out-of-town events. However, it may involve honest personal communication with the player and/or his parents....and it may require much patience. Depending on the age group, some kids require ongoing reinforcement, especially if the adjustments are mechanical. Before I continue, I want to make sure that I am not taken out of context -- I like & support my son's current summer coach (Curt Lowry) and his assistants. They are good baseball men and I trust them to play a part in PantherSon's development. We (PantherFamily) are very fortunate. My expectations include more than game management. I happen to think that is the easiest part of the job. In order for a summer team to excel, I think the coach needs practice time with his kids -- more than pre-game. And, he may need to plan a multi-faceted practice so all benefit <-- tough challenge. I think a coach has to be almost unwilling to give up on a kid, i.e., a long rope <-- another difficult task.
In light of these things, my son did not have a great summer, but we were able to identify several things to work on and I believe he will use his "baseball downs" as motivation to improve. Just so no one worries, I love him as much as always and think there are many UPs ahead.
This is the first year that we have paid a coach. I think his influence was a key ingredient in our team's success....so, it was money well spent. I do not expect Curt to make sure Jeff is "seen" or "exposed". I think associating with a solid organization will help with those things. But, you didn't ask for expectations from an organization, did you? Oh....I expect the coach to win a few coin tosses along the way -- practice, practice!
quote:Originally posted by justsittin'inthestands:
One that will communicate and not leave us in the dark about why our kid is sitting on the bench and we've paid $1,500 to play for this team.
I think it is unrealistic to expect a coach to communicate with 15 players and 15 sets of parents. This is a "highschool" website, meaning players are 15 or older. At this age, it is important that the players begin to learn to communicate with their coaches, therefore it is important for a coach to be a good communicator with 15-18 year olds. If there are off the field issues, or issues detrimental to indivduals within the team, then a parent conference may be needed. Many coaches that I know and respect have an "open door" policy with players but not with parents. This doesn't mean that they won't visit with parents but they want that to be the exception, not the rule.
Most select teams 15 and up don't guarrantee playing time just because you paid the initial team fee, "pay for play" is 14U or on your summer HS team.
Qualities I look for: (head coach of 15 and up select team)
* fair
* honest
* knowledgeable
* passionate- not just in to collect a check or make sure Jr. gets his playing time at SS)
* disciplinarian
* dependable
We'll start with these and see where this goes.
Bighit,
Couldn't have said it better. The 2-way street should consist of honesty and respect from both the coach and the player and his family.
I understand it is not easy for a coach to balance playing time and opportunity for a player to prove himself deserving of a starting role against putting the most competitive team possible on the field. The "really good coaches" wind up with kids (not necessarily their parents) both on the field and on the bench who know and readily accept their roles on the team.
One area of the Select process that troubles me is the "picking up of players" for the post-season. I sure wish the rules (AABC residency/eligibility rules are a whole other topic!) would prohibit this. Maybe I'm old-fashioned but this seems to run contrary to the TEAM concept.
jmo
Couldn't have said it better. The 2-way street should consist of honesty and respect from both the coach and the player and his family.
I understand it is not easy for a coach to balance playing time and opportunity for a player to prove himself deserving of a starting role against putting the most competitive team possible on the field. The "really good coaches" wind up with kids (not necessarily their parents) both on the field and on the bench who know and readily accept their roles on the team.
One area of the Select process that troubles me is the "picking up of players" for the post-season. I sure wish the rules (AABC residency/eligibility rules are a whole other topic!) would prohibit this. Maybe I'm old-fashioned but this seems to run contrary to the TEAM concept.
jmo
For the Coach
I'll let a player tell you what he expects.
- To Play the best competition available, even if your record reflects it
- To be a responsible manager of the teams money
- To be fair in player evaluations
- To never misrepresent the truth to a player or a parent
- To be positive
- Communication
- When talking to scouts or college coaches, give an honest evaluation.
I'll let a player tell you what he expects.
Things I look for:
1. Consistency. (this is a hard quality to find, and gets most coaches in trouble).
2. Fair and allows all positions to be up for grabs.
3. Coaching ability during games, and at practice. (hey these guys are still in high school, and they may think they know it all but they don't.)
Parents: At this age, I have found if you have a problem with the coach let your son handle it. As mentioned earlier, your son is the one playing and they need to learn how to confront the coach. Parents, if you feel a need to confront the coach, do it after the season is complete. Getting involved during the season may do more harm than good for the player.
1. Consistency. (this is a hard quality to find, and gets most coaches in trouble).
2. Fair and allows all positions to be up for grabs.
3. Coaching ability during games, and at practice. (hey these guys are still in high school, and they may think they know it all but they don't.)
Parents: At this age, I have found if you have a problem with the coach let your son handle it. As mentioned earlier, your son is the one playing and they need to learn how to confront the coach. Parents, if you feel a need to confront the coach, do it after the season is complete. Getting involved during the season may do more harm than good for the player.
Kirk, no disrespect. We'll totally agree to disagree. My son does play 15U (actually 16U this fall) and I do expect a coach to communicate with 15 sets of parents. He took the money from 15 sets. He owes each set of parents the plain truth. We don't have to like it, but we do have to accept it. I do believe we owe it to the coach to support his decisions and to do that, we have to know what the decisions are. Several folks have said "communication." That is all I'm asking for. Keep us in the loop. If our children were all we had to depend on for communication I'm not sure I'd ever know anything. I know each kid is different, and if your son can get the coaches point across to you, God bless you both. Right now I'm lucky to get a grunt out of my teenager. Ugh! I'm sure this will pass ... I hope it will pass. Thanks for the other side of the coin.
You get grunts??? Cool!
This is good information. My next question is how much is a fair amount to charge a player? How much money should the coach make to teach your son the game of baseball?
Price has never been an issue for me. Quality is always the issue for me. i did not have much money, but I found a way. Also, a coach should be able to make a living in the summer while doing it. let us not forget how many free hours are spent scouting players. I nver begrudge a profit. Some parents act like the guy ought to do it for the love of the game and no profit. That is ridiculous.
The cost should match the quality of play, class and schedule. I wouldn't want to pay the same for a local only team as I would a team that plays elite competition. jmo
The cost should match the quality of play, class and schedule. I wouldn't want to pay the same for a local only team as I would a team that plays elite competition. jmo
Back up -- I smell something -- none of us said we want a coach to "teach our son the game of baseball" -- did we? Where you going with this, coach?
Justsittininthestands, no disrespect takin. I understand what you are asking for and I believe in a perfect world this would be great.
After I responded to your comments I listed the qualities (see if first post) that I am looking for in a coach. The first two are fairness and honesty. If my son plays for a fair, honest, baseball knowledgeable coach, then I think my son should beable to communicate with him. By the way, I am getting grunts from my 15/16 year old as well.
The other problem with your scenario is, that if the coach communicated with all parents, there will be more sets of parents that will be unreasonable than those like you described yourself. If you approach a coach and handle it the way you said you would handle it, most coaches, "No open door policy" will visit with you and answer your questions.
After I responded to your comments I listed the qualities (see if first post) that I am looking for in a coach. The first two are fairness and honesty. If my son plays for a fair, honest, baseball knowledgeable coach, then I think my son should beable to communicate with him. By the way, I am getting grunts from my 15/16 year old as well.
The other problem with your scenario is, that if the coach communicated with all parents, there will be more sets of parents that will be unreasonable than those like you described yourself. If you approach a coach and handle it the way you said you would handle it, most coaches, "No open door policy" will visit with you and answer your questions.
What I look for in a coach:
First and foremost: A good communicator to his players, with his assistant coaches (if any), how does he interact with his own son if he has one on the team and does he communicate with the parents.
Why look at communication with the assistant coaches: shows respect and what kind of relationship the team as a whole will have (lack of respect/communication between coaches is a telltale sign of a short lived team with possible division on the horizon)
to the parents: because until I stop footing the bill for the team and stop footing the bill for additional instruction (when needed) then I would like to feel part of the loop.
to his son: how he treats his son says a lot and how his son treats him says even more.
When do I want to be communicated with: when/if/and any time my son is struggling and isn't earning his spot in the rotation then I want to know what is lacking is it something that can be tweaked with lessons and if that is it you can bet I will seek those out, is it attitude then you can bet that will be addressed at home is it that he will never cut it on the team then if so then I would rather know up front so we can make what ever decisions need to be made.
The best way to know what kind of communicator a coach is before you join a team is go and watch him in action, watch a couple of games/tournaments and see how he is on and off the field. Best thing to see is when his team is struggling on the field how does he handle it and how does he manage the "after game talk".....very telling to a parent and player. Another way is ask current and past players/parents, ask coaches that are in his age group/league and ask league officials.
Besides communication I look for baseball background combined with past coaching experience. I don't want a "newbie" coach (right out of school or right out of the pro's), been there done that. Based on past experience, I personally don't put higher value on "level" of play (pro vs college). I have seen a few ex pro players that could hit/throw like no other but couldn't teach/communicate it to their players and had no knowledge of how to manage a team or impliment game strategy. Again you have to ask about them not just look at their resume of personal playing experience.
Important question is how large of a roster do you carry and when is the roster finalized or is it always open?
What type of tournaments/showcases have you played in during the past year or 2 and what are your plans this year.
Evaluation: do you have any type of midseason or final season player evaluation? Do you start fresh each season with a clean slate and have tryouts?
Pitching: pitch counts and philosophy on counts/types of pitches/who calls the pitches/do you work with a set rotation/do you carry players that are pitchers only and if so are they told that before they committ. Does the coach know their pitchers (each and everyone)comfort level/pitch count and does the coach respect that. How do they feel about sliders/curveballs and amount thrown each game and at what age.
Private/outside Lessons: how do you feel about outside lessons? If a pitcher/batter uses outside lessons do you respect their form/technique as long as they produce or do you like to have cookie cutter forms for all.
Pick-up players: do you use them and in what form/manner.
Do you play league and tournament/showcases or both.
Do you have a Fall as well as a Spring Program.
Do you use parents has helpers/asst. coaches/managers/statisticians.
Do you use stats as a tool and are the stats available at any time to players? Are they posted for the team?
Do you have several teams (program concept) in different age groups and do you have more than 1 team in any particular age group.
What is the overall goal for the season:
1. do you base success on overall record?
2. do you base success on player retention for the next year.
3. do you base success on how each player started the season and ended the season-stats/performance/development.
Price: having only played for a paid coach 1 time it is hard for me to answer this as my son was lucky enough to have a volunteer/nondad coach and asst. coach for 3 years and our 1 experience with a paid coach was more of an issue with the organization (which no longer exsists) and it was too much money for what the players received in games/coaching/uniforms.
If I was to go with a paid coach I would see what is being offered in the amount of games to be played, practices, coaching before I would evaluate the money. I can't see how one can compare 1 select team's fee's to another unless you can compare apples to apples on all aspects........
First and foremost: A good communicator to his players, with his assistant coaches (if any), how does he interact with his own son if he has one on the team and does he communicate with the parents.
Why look at communication with the assistant coaches: shows respect and what kind of relationship the team as a whole will have (lack of respect/communication between coaches is a telltale sign of a short lived team with possible division on the horizon)
to the parents: because until I stop footing the bill for the team and stop footing the bill for additional instruction (when needed) then I would like to feel part of the loop.
to his son: how he treats his son says a lot and how his son treats him says even more.
When do I want to be communicated with: when/if/and any time my son is struggling and isn't earning his spot in the rotation then I want to know what is lacking is it something that can be tweaked with lessons and if that is it you can bet I will seek those out, is it attitude then you can bet that will be addressed at home is it that he will never cut it on the team then if so then I would rather know up front so we can make what ever decisions need to be made.
The best way to know what kind of communicator a coach is before you join a team is go and watch him in action, watch a couple of games/tournaments and see how he is on and off the field. Best thing to see is when his team is struggling on the field how does he handle it and how does he manage the "after game talk".....very telling to a parent and player. Another way is ask current and past players/parents, ask coaches that are in his age group/league and ask league officials.
Besides communication I look for baseball background combined with past coaching experience. I don't want a "newbie" coach (right out of school or right out of the pro's), been there done that. Based on past experience, I personally don't put higher value on "level" of play (pro vs college). I have seen a few ex pro players that could hit/throw like no other but couldn't teach/communicate it to their players and had no knowledge of how to manage a team or impliment game strategy. Again you have to ask about them not just look at their resume of personal playing experience.
Important question is how large of a roster do you carry and when is the roster finalized or is it always open?
What type of tournaments/showcases have you played in during the past year or 2 and what are your plans this year.
Evaluation: do you have any type of midseason or final season player evaluation? Do you start fresh each season with a clean slate and have tryouts?
Pitching: pitch counts and philosophy on counts/types of pitches/who calls the pitches/do you work with a set rotation/do you carry players that are pitchers only and if so are they told that before they committ. Does the coach know their pitchers (each and everyone)comfort level/pitch count and does the coach respect that. How do they feel about sliders/curveballs and amount thrown each game and at what age.
Private/outside Lessons: how do you feel about outside lessons? If a pitcher/batter uses outside lessons do you respect their form/technique as long as they produce or do you like to have cookie cutter forms for all.
Pick-up players: do you use them and in what form/manner.
Do you play league and tournament/showcases or both.
Do you have a Fall as well as a Spring Program.
Do you use parents has helpers/asst. coaches/managers/statisticians.
Do you use stats as a tool and are the stats available at any time to players? Are they posted for the team?
Do you have several teams (program concept) in different age groups and do you have more than 1 team in any particular age group.
What is the overall goal for the season:
1. do you base success on overall record?
2. do you base success on player retention for the next year.
3. do you base success on how each player started the season and ended the season-stats/performance/development.
Price: having only played for a paid coach 1 time it is hard for me to answer this as my son was lucky enough to have a volunteer/nondad coach and asst. coach for 3 years and our 1 experience with a paid coach was more of an issue with the organization (which no longer exsists) and it was too much money for what the players received in games/coaching/uniforms.
If I was to go with a paid coach I would see what is being offered in the amount of games to be played, practices, coaching before I would evaluate the money. I can't see how one can compare 1 select team's fee's to another unless you can compare apples to apples on all aspects........
On the fair amount of money question... that is an individual answer.
I talked to many parents that were very frustrated at paying 1500-1600 for this summer, I also talked to a few parents that weren't paying a dime and they weren't happy either.
On the flip side, I talked to some that after paying $1600 they were happy as lambs.
Me personally, think that $1500 for a summer team is ridiculous.
As far as getting paid, it's the same as your employees Lynn. What's the going rate? Think it was mentioned that some of the head coaches were making $4,000 for the summer....if that's the going rate, then fine.
My son has had better luck with the coaches that didn't get paid, if you want my honest opinion. But, you already know that.
I talked to many parents that were very frustrated at paying 1500-1600 for this summer, I also talked to a few parents that weren't paying a dime and they weren't happy either.
On the flip side, I talked to some that after paying $1600 they were happy as lambs.
Me personally, think that $1500 for a summer team is ridiculous.
As far as getting paid, it's the same as your employees Lynn. What's the going rate? Think it was mentioned that some of the head coaches were making $4,000 for the summer....if that's the going rate, then fine.
My son has had better luck with the coaches that didn't get paid, if you want my honest opinion. But, you already know that.
Oldbat, you have a readers digest version of that? 
KD: have you ever known me to have a Reader's Digest version....... toooooooooooooo many years of managing teams I guess.......I was thinking of all the questions that were asked of me and the one's I wished I had asked and sometimes didn't have the ba--s to ask.
Need to start thinking about of all this for next season.
Need to start thinking about of all this for next season.
Oh my stars! I'm printing out this whole thread. Great way to make me think and see. Thank you all! Old Bat - you are so wise. Great questions that I unfortunately thought of AFTER the face. Now I'll always ask in advance. Kirk - at what age do the grunts end? (hehehe) I guess I was thinking it was always going to be a perfect world scenario. I have since put the rose colored glasses down.
KD:
Reader's Digest version:
"one must do their homework"
Reader's Digest version:
"one must do their homework"
Panther Dad:
I subscribe to the 80/20 rule. Every year I have done this 80% of the people are happy and 20% are unhappy. As to what am I up to. I am trying to gain perspective as to what is viewed as fair and equitable and determine whether I can meet the expectations of the parents and players at this age in this day in time.
No Agenda, just trying to understand.
I subscribe to the 80/20 rule. Every year I have done this 80% of the people are happy and 20% are unhappy. As to what am I up to. I am trying to gain perspective as to what is viewed as fair and equitable and determine whether I can meet the expectations of the parents and players at this age in this day in time.
No Agenda, just trying to understand.
I'm just teasing you, V -- 80/20 isn't a bad number, keep up the good work!
OBN -- I'm not sure you got what you paid for this summer -- but then again, you didn't pay too much (I don't think). I think this thread would be enlightening to a young coach considering teaching at this level, although many fail to recognize the snares before stepping into them.
OBN -- I'm not sure you got what you paid for this summer -- but then again, you didn't pay too much (I don't think). I think this thread would be enlightening to a young coach considering teaching at this level, although many fail to recognize the snares before stepping into them.
Im fairly new here and joined to "do my homework" per say. And after reading all the post the past few days im so excited my son wants to play on one of the "elite" teams. 
justsittininthestands, between 20 and 21, at least that is what we are finding with our daughter.
Keep in mind, I only have one case study to support my theory.
Money- the most economical team, is no team at all. Otherwise, cost per team will be impacted by, coaches pay, uniforms, league, number of tournaments (tournament fees vary, i.e. 16U Jr. Olympics in AZ 2000.00 Mustangs-Lowry invitational 500.00) you get what you pay for. Additionally, some orginzations charge an "organizational feee" usually part of the 1500.00. Equipment, i.e. baseballs, indoor outdoor facility rental (if you have facilities available, congratulations). This list does not include travel cost, some teams travel more than others and some go to places that require airfare. 1500 to 1600 per player does not include travel.
Keep in mind, I only have one case study to support my theory.
Money- the most economical team, is no team at all. Otherwise, cost per team will be impacted by, coaches pay, uniforms, league, number of tournaments (tournament fees vary, i.e. 16U Jr. Olympics in AZ 2000.00 Mustangs-Lowry invitational 500.00) you get what you pay for. Additionally, some orginzations charge an "organizational feee" usually part of the 1500.00. Equipment, i.e. baseballs, indoor outdoor facility rental (if you have facilities available, congratulations). This list does not include travel cost, some teams travel more than others and some go to places that require airfare. 1500 to 1600 per player does not include travel.
PD:
Of course I hope you know I was talking about the select teams, we have had in the past not the HS summer teams I see those as 2 different situations. This summer even though the coaches were paid, it wasn't something I went out looking for/evaluating before selecting it was there for us and our fellow HS players and it was a good experience for us and it was a good foundation for those coaches for future jobs........and hopefully those 2 fine young (didn't want to put names on here) men will continue doing this each summer and not let the "little things" get them down....
Of course I hope you know I was talking about the select teams, we have had in the past not the HS summer teams I see those as 2 different situations. This summer even though the coaches were paid, it wasn't something I went out looking for/evaluating before selecting it was there for us and our fellow HS players and it was a good experience for us and it was a good foundation for those coaches for future jobs........and hopefully those 2 fine young (didn't want to put names on here) men will continue doing this each summer and not let the "little things" get them down....
I don't know about the select stuff, but I coached a college summer league team for the second summer in a row for no pay...it was one of the best experiences I have had.
I knew you were referring to the select situations -- and the guys really enjoyed the experience. Thanks for your support for Josh and Mike (I'll name names). I'll make sure you get their autographs in the first batch after their Tech experience.
quote:Originally posted by kirk:
between 20 and 21, at least that is what we are finding with our daughter.
Kirk you are corrrect, my daughter is 19 and she's just now starting to say a few words that we can understand.
PD:
Drop me a line after they start at Tech and let me know how they are doing, I wish them nothing but the best.
Autographs,,,,,,,,I will take front row seats first game they have in the area......how about that and tell Josh I will bring the horns and blow them if I can get them from his mom(he will know what I am talking about).
Drop me a line after they start at Tech and let me know how they are doing, I wish them nothing but the best.
Autographs,,,,,,,,I will take front row seats first game they have in the area......how about that and tell Josh I will bring the horns and blow them if I can get them from his mom(he will know what I am talking about).
quote:Originally posted by Vanlandingham:
This is good information. My next question is how much is a fair amount to charge a player? How much money should the coach make to teach your son the game of baseball?
Lynn you present a very good question and that is one that all coaches are trying to get a handle on. I believe you meet with the parents present your goals and expectations for the team and build a budget from there. In my opinion, $1500 per player is not out of line when you figure that going to the most competitive tournaments (Junior Olympics, Perfect Game, Premier Baseball, BEST Baseball) which is what the parents say they are looking for in earlier post the cost runs in the area of $1,000 - $1,200 per tournament, then adding uniforms, field usuage, league fees, other equipment it gets expensive. Lynn back when you and I were at the 14U age I heard of some teams spending $30,000 - $35,000 for the summer and you or I would never see them on the last day of the tournament playing for the bids. That is crazy. I agree with Kelle dad that the cost seems somewhat high but like he mentioned some familes are unhappy that paid $0. I'm hoping to win the lottery one day and no one on the team pays.
Very, very good posts. My thoughts on the coaches responsibility to communicate - their first responsibility is to communicate with the PLAYER. Just because I as the parent foot the bill that in no way absolves my son from being responsible and man enough to approach his coach with any question or problem he might have. Most of the time if a kid is not playing it is a PERFORMANCE issue - and as a rule parents hate to hear that.
Remember, these select teams are loaded with high caliber players. Someone is going to sit the bench and no parent thinks it should be their All District performer. Teach your son to be a man and handle these problems with the coach without his mom and dad having to intercede. It will serve him well later in life.
I personally have very little contact with my son's coach. I can watch my son play and I can tell what he needs to do to improve. I let my son deal with his coach. He prefers that and THAT will serve him well if he is fortunate enough to play in college far away from his mother and me.
Again, I totally disagree that with the payment of $1500 the coach is obligated to provide me counseling sessions to make me feel better about the baseball ability of my son.
Remember, these select teams are loaded with high caliber players. Someone is going to sit the bench and no parent thinks it should be their All District performer. Teach your son to be a man and handle these problems with the coach without his mom and dad having to intercede. It will serve him well later in life.
I personally have very little contact with my son's coach. I can watch my son play and I can tell what he needs to do to improve. I let my son deal with his coach. He prefers that and THAT will serve him well if he is fortunate enough to play in college far away from his mother and me.
Again, I totally disagree that with the payment of $1500 the coach is obligated to provide me counseling sessions to make me feel better about the baseball ability of my son.
I think there MAY be a difference between "good communication" and being "obligated to provide me counseling sessions to make me feel better about the baseball ability of my son". Tell me, why would coaches hesitate to talk to the parents? I too want my son to go to the coach on his own when there are issues...but there should be an appropriate balance.
Can anyone envision this conversation? (hypothetical, of course)
coach: Johnny, you have talent, but even those with God-given abilities have to work hard to improve -- and you seem distracted or disinterested when we focus on drills, game situations at practice, or other stuff that may seem routine or boring to you. During some games, your attitude may reflects laziness, especially to those that do not know you.
Johnny: ok coach
---
Johnny (to parents): Coach says I'm lazy!
Part of coaching, on any level, is dealing with personalities. HS coaches have to deal with parents, the booster club, the press....college coaches may not have to deal with parents, but they have to deal with faculty, administrators, boosters, etc. Asking a paid summer coach to communicate with parents isn't an unreasonable request.
JMO.
As far as what to pay -- the market determines the price for most anything -- select baseball included. I for one, would like to see more sponsorships (ok, a throwback to our youth)....but I realize that times have changes for corporate America as well. In Youngstown, Ohio -- their "Class B" summer teams are funded by local companies.
Can anyone envision this conversation? (hypothetical, of course)
coach: Johnny, you have talent, but even those with God-given abilities have to work hard to improve -- and you seem distracted or disinterested when we focus on drills, game situations at practice, or other stuff that may seem routine or boring to you. During some games, your attitude may reflects laziness, especially to those that do not know you.
Johnny: ok coach
---
Johnny (to parents): Coach says I'm lazy!
Part of coaching, on any level, is dealing with personalities. HS coaches have to deal with parents, the booster club, the press....college coaches may not have to deal with parents, but they have to deal with faculty, administrators, boosters, etc. Asking a paid summer coach to communicate with parents isn't an unreasonable request.
JMO.
As far as what to pay -- the market determines the price for most anything -- select baseball included. I for one, would like to see more sponsorships (ok, a throwback to our youth)....but I realize that times have changes for corporate America as well. In Youngstown, Ohio -- their "Class B" summer teams are funded by local companies.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Panther Dad:
I think there MAY be a difference between "good communication" and being "obligated to provide me counseling sessions to make me feel better about the baseball ability of my son". Tell me, why would coaches hesitate to talk to the parents?
Panther Dad in my opinion Coaches are hesitate to visit with parents because the parent of the kids that may not be playing does not want to hear the truth. They want to tell you why Johnny is so good and was an All Star last summer; they want to do it right after the game when emotions are runing high, especially if you have just come off a tough loss and the parent wanted their son in the game. But I do agree with you its all about open and honest communications. I know your son very well having coached him in the fall and seen him play since he was 9 years old. He is a very good player with great potential. Also, I find you very receptive to open and honest communications either good or bad. However, when dealing with the bubble parents and we all have done it as coaches, it gets nasty sometimes.
I think there MAY be a difference between "good communication" and being "obligated to provide me counseling sessions to make me feel better about the baseball ability of my son". Tell me, why would coaches hesitate to talk to the parents?
Panther Dad in my opinion Coaches are hesitate to visit with parents because the parent of the kids that may not be playing does not want to hear the truth. They want to tell you why Johnny is so good and was an All Star last summer; they want to do it right after the game when emotions are runing high, especially if you have just come off a tough loss and the parent wanted their son in the game. But I do agree with you its all about open and honest communications. I know your son very well having coached him in the fall and seen him play since he was 9 years old. He is a very good player with great potential. Also, I find you very receptive to open and honest communications either good or bad. However, when dealing with the bubble parents and we all have done it as coaches, it gets nasty sometimes.
VL,
Some characteristics of teams I have observed, where there were 80% - 90% of the players and parents feeling good about the team. {Not in any particular order.}
1. Equitable playing time. The club only picked players who were capable of playing at the club's overall level. So playing time could be kept fairly even without sacrificing competitiveness. This allowed parents to not be concerned about paying big bucks to have their child sit.
2. Good communications. Expectations and rules clearly stated up front. And then these were kept without exception. Some feedback during the season to the players and to the parents.
3. No prima donnas allowed or preferential treatment practiced.
4. Good teaching/coaching & lots of it. Teaching that is specific to the individual player, rather than just generic to the entire team. To me, this one is very important.
5. Playing against great competition, and then regularly reminding parents that when you play against good competition you will lose some games. {Boys understand, some parents are obsessed w/ W's.}
Just a few quick thoughts.
Some characteristics of teams I have observed, where there were 80% - 90% of the players and parents feeling good about the team. {Not in any particular order.}
1. Equitable playing time. The club only picked players who were capable of playing at the club's overall level. So playing time could be kept fairly even without sacrificing competitiveness. This allowed parents to not be concerned about paying big bucks to have their child sit.
2. Good communications. Expectations and rules clearly stated up front. And then these were kept without exception. Some feedback during the season to the players and to the parents.
3. No prima donnas allowed or preferential treatment practiced.
4. Good teaching/coaching & lots of it. Teaching that is specific to the individual player, rather than just generic to the entire team. To me, this one is very important.
5. Playing against great competition, and then regularly reminding parents that when you play against good competition you will lose some games. {Boys understand, some parents are obsessed w/ W's.}
Just a few quick thoughts.
Indugu -- I agree that there are appropriate times for discussions and after the game isn't one of them! And, believe me, I understand why coaches want to avoid "nasty" confrontations.
The idea of "YOU WANT THE TRUTH?" "I think I'm entitled to it." "THE TRUTH??? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!" needs to be left with a great actor and his wacko side-kick.
At the beginning of the year, a coach should make a simple disclaimer -- "I will discuss your son and his ability with you at appropriate times and in a calm manner, but only if you are willing to accept my assessment, which is based on my baseball experience. We may not always agree, but I will commit to an honest evaluation of where your son is today and where I think he needs to be to help this team. And I will continue to use my skills to help him improve."
I think the best thing to say to a coach after the game, win or lose, for players and parents, is "thanks, coach" -- I don't do it enough. Our high school coach has an "open door" policy -- he will meet to talk about a kid day or night -- any place, any time -- but with a few conditions....1) bring your son so he can hear the discussion, and 2) be prepared for frankness, good or bad. <-- A fair policy, I think.
Btw, thanks coach for the kind words about my son.
The idea of "YOU WANT THE TRUTH?" "I think I'm entitled to it." "THE TRUTH??? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!" needs to be left with a great actor and his wacko side-kick.
At the beginning of the year, a coach should make a simple disclaimer -- "I will discuss your son and his ability with you at appropriate times and in a calm manner, but only if you are willing to accept my assessment, which is based on my baseball experience. We may not always agree, but I will commit to an honest evaluation of where your son is today and where I think he needs to be to help this team. And I will continue to use my skills to help him improve."
I think the best thing to say to a coach after the game, win or lose, for players and parents, is "thanks, coach" -- I don't do it enough. Our high school coach has an "open door" policy -- he will meet to talk about a kid day or night -- any place, any time -- but with a few conditions....1) bring your son so he can hear the discussion, and 2) be prepared for frankness, good or bad. <-- A fair policy, I think.
Btw, thanks coach for the kind words about my son.
I sat back and watched what was a very good team after the first 20 games of the year go downhill after a coaching change.
WHY? Some parents went to the owner manager of the organization asking the coach be removed because their sons were not gettin the playing time they felt their kids deserved.THe coach at first keep to hiself after games and did not associate with parents other than the normal hi how are ya's.The new coach was young went with parents everywhere got along great and actually did a good job coaching but at this point the team started going downhill because at times the best players were not on the field in the big games.I for one could not gripe because Change-son was on the feild all the time allbeit not at his natural position. He was just happy to be on the feild trying to help his team win at all cost.I guess my point is when we pay 1500 dollars to play and are supposed to have a non biased payed coach it is frusrtating to know this team was run by a handful of demanding parents.So a coach that associates with parents to much can lead to being detramental to a team. JMO
WHY? Some parents went to the owner manager of the organization asking the coach be removed because their sons were not gettin the playing time they felt their kids deserved.THe coach at first keep to hiself after games and did not associate with parents other than the normal hi how are ya's.The new coach was young went with parents everywhere got along great and actually did a good job coaching but at this point the team started going downhill because at times the best players were not on the field in the big games.I for one could not gripe because Change-son was on the feild all the time allbeit not at his natural position. He was just happy to be on the feild trying to help his team win at all cost.I guess my point is when we pay 1500 dollars to play and are supposed to have a non biased payed coach it is frusrtating to know this team was run by a handful of demanding parents.So a coach that associates with parents to much can lead to being detramental to a team. JMO
Changeup, that may be true with some coaches, but I like a coach that can associate with us less than human parents.
If he can't do that and still coach a team, he needs to not be a coach in my opinion.
If he can't do that and still coach a team, he needs to not be a coach in my opinion.
I agree 100%.
Great point KD -- we're lucky, we happen to have a coach that the moms like being around too....hmmm -- what exactly is "metro-sexual"? 