What are the ingredients?

JDsDad:

This is complimentary to your no. 4...

8.loves to win

i would say that a player's determination and work ethic separate the average and good players. there are those that have tremendous talent with complacent attitudes. they rely solely on what God has blessed them with. then there are those that have average/good talent but they work their fannies off to be a great player. in my mind, it is the ones that are never satisfied with their accomplishments...the ones that never tell themselves that they are good, but works to get there, that will ultimately outlast the complacent talented player.

JDsDad, my son did an internet chat last week and was asked somewhat of a similar question. This is the approach that he has used:

"The best advice I ever received was to try and keep a level demeanor, meaning never get to high or too low. Anyone who plays baseball knows how fun it is to hit homeruns, but how awful a slump is. Always try to stay level and work as hard as you can, because if you want it bad enough, you can make it happen"

infielddad:

The quote below is the essence of what I feel, as a father, that I can contribute to the progress of all four of our children that play baseball or softball. My most meaningful task is to keep all of them on an even keel.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:"The best advice I ever received was to try and keep a level demeanor, meaning never get to high or too low. Anyone who plays baseball knows how fun it is to hit homeruns, but how awful a slump is. Always try to stay level and work as hard as you can, because if you want it bad enough, you can make it happen"

Thanks for the post.

infielddad - What your son has said have very much rung true in my short time of being around superb baseball players.

The best ones think about what they're going to do tomorrow instead of dwelling on what they did or didn't do today. The always know they will bounce back.

I think the even-keel, level-headed stuff is crucial in baseball as well.

I thought the AL championship series demonstrated these traits well. Joe Crede struck out to end game 1 and give LA the first game of the series. I didn't see him show emotion, break his bat in half, swear at himself, glare at the pitcher, and what not. He merely went back to the dugout looking determined to get after it the next day. The very next day, Pierzinski gets on with the fluke stike out play and who comes up? That's right - Crede. What's he do this time? He ends the game with a shot off the fence. I am sure he was happy he delivered the next night, but I'll bet he was already focused on the next game shortly after that game-winning hit. Similar thing happened with Houston's Brad Lidge after giving up the game-winner to Pujols.

JD’sDad,
Very good post. I like all your traits you list. It could be that some players may not 100% of some of those traits but they have 110% of another. Gotwood4sale, I used to think that winning and hating to lose were very similar (and probably are to a certain degree) but in the better ball players, winning is ALWAYS expected and is the norm. No celebration needed, no big deal.
One thing I have always noticed is the struggle great ballplayers have with being a team player. They understand the importance of being a team player but they are different than most of the ball players on their team and their makeup sets them apart. As great ball players come together in college and professionally, I think they tend to “understand” each others’ quirks in egos and confidence and gel better as a team than say in high school.
Fungo

JDsDad, I have always wondered where this "skill/trait" originates but "instinctive" to me is a very important one in baseball. No better illustrated by Jeter making the cutoff of an overthrown ball along the first base line and shuffling it to get Giambi at home a few years back. I know Zimmer said they worked on it, but everyone else said they never did.
The more professional ball I get to see at the minor league level, I am constantly impressed with the ability to always be in the right place/right time...instincts.
Another valuable trait is being "coachable." Don't think it is too important if you are Bonds and the like. For the vast majority, being able to listen, absorb and do it correctly the first and everytime is extremely important.

In looking at this list that JdsDad is putting together, I am quickly realizing why my career came to such a quick and abrupt end. I had none of these talents/skills and wasn't smart enough to realize I needed them. While I was somewhat coachable, my problem was then absorbing and doing things correctly the first and everytime, also.
If my son were a poster, his only messge would be:

.

IMO....For all athletes there are 5 major characteristics and sub categories:

1.Physical ability: How strong? how fast?, explosion? cardio? stamina?, size?, hands?....

2. Technique: footwork, swing, grips, arm angle...

3. Competition/Repetitions: How much competition have you seen? How good was the competition? How many at bats against great pitchers?....

4. Mental: how well do you compete? How well do you learn? How do you handle failure? How good is your work ethic? Do you operate off emotion or execution?....

5. Spiritual: Where does the game fit into your life? Do you have a passion and a love for it or is it a means to an end. Some guys lose interest when they get big contracts....some guys have to be carted off in their 40's...

.

I agree but also disagree with the God-given ability. I don't think anyone was born with the talent to play so well. They don't just pick up bat when they're young and all of a sudden hit every pitch. They have to work awful hard and practice the right way. Because of this, I believe that the work ethic, and drive is was seperates the best from the norm.
I also have to add that to become a better player, you need a positive attitude, someone who doesn't give up after striking out swinging or goes 0 for 4 against a crummy pitcher. Someone who just wants to continue, no matter what gets in the way.

My college coach, Hank Burbridge (a legend with over 1000 college wins) always told us that he would only ask two things of us as players because they were the only 2 things that we could control. I pass this mantra on to my players every spring, and I'll bet my guys could recite it:

1- Give 100%, 100% of the time
2- Guarantee what you can guarantee

**He stuck to his word: all he asked was that we give all we had, and that we did whatever was in our power to do for the sake of the team.

Coach Knight

This may be components of “5-willing to learn” and “6-baseball sense” another ingredient is the ability to make adjustments.

“I have never known a day when I didn’t learn something new about this game.” ~ Connie Mack

This may not seperate the average from the great but I think every great player at any level will have....

Respect for the game and his teammates, and will never underestimate his opponent.

Observer - love that list...it just became a part of the Cats Baseball Team Handbook for 2006!

You've got to start with some natural ability. If you don't have good hand eye coordination it does'nt matter how much you practice you will never be great.
I've seen a lot of parents throw away a lot of money on private lessons for their child. When you wonder if they'll even make a JV team in high school.

On the other hand you see someone with great natural ability that has no desire to practice doing something right and are content with where they're at.

My son says he daydreams about baseball all the time. Picturing himself making tough plays. He says a lot of times it actually happens later. It hasn't worked as well when he daydreams about hitting home runs.

I would imagine a lot of better players do this.

A great deal of luck, a whole lot of luck---

meaning you have to be in the right place at the right time, with the right tools, the right people watching, and doing the right things when nobody is watching, and not get seriously hurt....for about 15 straight years, equating to about 30 ball seasons, before you turn 18 years old... There are thousands of top ball players who never made it beyond high school ball, or beyond college ball, simply because of bad luck. . .So i'd put LUCK somewhere in the list of ingredients.

Doubledad, I just don't think luck has much to do with this other than perhaps avoiding serious injury. Everyone takes a different path and the "luck" that one might suggest is involved is, I would propose, more often than not the result of hard work, sacrifice, hard work, sacrifice and more hard work and sacrifice. The reason the right people are watching is because the player is productive and talented, again the result of hard work, sacrifice. I refuse to accept there are thousands of talented players who did not make it "simply due to bad luck." I personally believe there were other factors involved. When I watch how hard my son's teammates in the Blue Jays organization work both on the field but more importantly off, it seems so obvious that they did not just recently develop these traits and they have minimized/eliminated whatever "luck" might be involved.

Luck has a lot to do with "being in the right place at the right time"--- make no doubt about it --if a talented player doesnt place himself in the proper venue to be seen many things may not happen

All the talent in the world means nothing unless it is given exposure and is seen by the right people.


Hard work, exposure and marketing bring the top talent to the proper level porvided that the talent is there to begin with

TR, respectfully disagree. In terms of playing in college, luck can play a role in where you play, that I will concede. Provided you have the talent/work ethic/desire, I just don't think it impacts if you will play.
At the professional level, I will always remember the counsel of bbscout. If you can play, they will find you, whether you are at a DI, DIII, JUCO, NAIA, high school or elsewhere. Professional baseball scouts are paid to do that and lose their jobs if they don't.
Just don't think "luck" is involved on "whether" you play, only "where" you play.

From a pre-college perspective luck does play a role as far as having a good "showing" at an event. However planning for the best "stage" also plays an important factor, especially for the Northern player. Unless you have deep pockets and a lot of time to travel you need to make sure that the appearances are well planned, and then hope that luck plays a part in the level of your performance.

In college, I guess if you have the tools someone will find you, but, at what level of seriousness. This again is a Northern perspective. There are many local scouts that follow Northern games. Many of these guys do it for next to nothing and when they report back, their opinions may be worth just as much. The Southern scouts probably get the most attention, and have a bigger influence on the cross checkers. Sure there are the "blue chip" Northern players everyone knows about but as far as fringe pro prospects, players with Southern exposure will get the call before the others, IMO.

Aren't we on a HSbaseball website ?

That being the case the LUCK factor is heavy with regard to a HS player getting seen by the right college scouts and pro scouts.

Being in the right place at the right time is KEY !!!!

You're on a roll TR. I agree wholeheartedly!

I agree with rz1 that there is a differece in scouting in the the north and south

I agree also with njbb who agrees with rz1. Good thoughts and observations rz1.

I’m not going to argue “luck”, but if you do the right things to be seen, you’ve pretty much eliminated luck. Will you be lucky if the right coaches/colleges/scouts see you perform?

My personal opinion/belief (no problem with those who disagree) is that there is pretty much no such thing as luck. I prefer to believe in “divine intervention”. I’ll leave it at that.

BTW, I wholeheartedly agree with rz1 about north vs south.

We had a SF Giant pitcher come to one of our pre-season training sessions.

He was asked this very question about what ingredients does it take to make it to the pros.

He told all the young boys, stick-to-itiveness is the one ingredient that separtes the ones who make it and the ones that don't.

He told them that when he was a LL player he was one of the players no one wanted on their team. He was a substitute player that never got into the games except because of the "must play rule". He was not one of those who had a Dad that was also a good coach.

Year after year he thought he was going to be cut from the teams he played for but he continued to work very, very hard at this craft. As time went by all the guys who played in front of him that were the superstars, the ones that made All-League and got all the accolades began to fall by the wayside, not because they didn't have talent, but because of other reasons, like personal issues and circumstances (drugs), or lack of resolve.

And he listened to his coaches, and did what they told him to do. He never thought he would make his HS team, but did, he never thought he would get to play college ball, but he did, and he never thought he would ever play in the pros, but he did.

He became the closer for the SF Giants...played 16 years in the pros.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mintogr01.shtml

The moral to the story for all BB players, talent isn't always the difference in whether you make it or not.

Stick-to-itiveness is...

Ramrod that is a story you hear all the time from current and former players. Some make it to the show some make it to the minors or college. Yes you have to have some talent. But when you reach a certain level all the guys have talent. But not everyone has the ingredients that sustain you over time. How many kids never realize their full potential because of distractions or lack of work ethic etc? Talent will never be enough. Work ethic with no talent will never be enough in baseball but it will be enough in life.