What do you think about reentering a pitcher?

As described in this particular case, I don't think there's much of a toll on the SP who just gets a slightly longer break than he would have normally. And given that he can normally go 80-90 pitches, that's an inning saved off some other arm you might be counting on at a different point in the tournament, and you could presumably bring the kid who went 2/3 back the next day, so you haven't really cost yourself anything by having him pitch.

 Stats, I have a question concerning this. Last season, we were playing an Australian team. My son pitched the first 5 innings and left with a 7-0 lead. The Aussies scored 6 off of the relievers to pull within one. With two on and one out in the seventh, I pulled him from first base and put him back on the mound where he got the next batter to ground into a game ending dp. Scoring it, I gave him both the win and the save, but that always seemed strange to me. Is it possible to pull the save in a game where you also get the W?

Originally Posted by jp24:

What are those conditions? Why not spell them out?

Why? The conditions have absolutely no bearing on what I was asking.

You've seen it done three time in all your years, and are concerned?

JEEZ! Read what I wrote!

If it's in the rule book, what's the problem?

I didn’t say there was a problem with it being against the rules. I was asking to see if anyone had any knowledge about what effect it might have on a pitcher.

Whatever the effects are, one thing is certain: You'll refute anything someone offers.

Well, its obvious you don’t have anything to add.

Again ... if I say no worries, and someone else says it might be a problem, you'll ask us for proof. Sorry, stats ... fool me once ...

(fun, ain't it?)

All you’ve done is prove to me you’d rather see if you can one-up me or otherwise show me up rather than answer a reasonable question. Personally, I think its juvenile, but then again I consider the source.

just messin' with ya, stats.i hope you prove me wrong

Originally Posted by roothog66:

Stats, I have a question concerning this. Last season, we were playing an Australian team. My son pitched the first 5 innings and left with a 7-0 lead. The Aussies scored 6 off of the relievers to pull within one. With two on and one out in the seventh, I pulled him from first base and put him back on the mound where he got the next batter to ground into a game ending dp. Scoring it, I gave him both the win and the save, but that always seemed strange to me. Is it possible to pull the save in a game where you also get the W?

Its really easy to see in OBR, and the rule is almost verbatim in the FED rule 9.6.7.

10.19 SAVES FOR RELIEF PITCHERS

A save is a statistic credited to a relief pitcher, as set forth in this Rule 10.19.

The official scorer shall credit a pitcher with a save when such pitcher meets all four

of the following conditions:

(a) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his team;

(b) He is not the winning pitcher;

(c) He is credited with at least ⅓ of an inning pitched; and

(d) He satisfies one of the following conditions:

Having said that though, since you mentioned it was an Australian team, there’s no way for me to know what rules you were playing under. Personally I almost always use OBR for such things because its never wrong.

This season we played a team from another state. Our league uses the “10 run” speedup rule, and so does theirs. We were ahead 14-0 when we came in to bat in the bottom of the 4^th, so I asked our HC if the stats from then on should be included on the regular stats. He said the 2 HCs had agreed to waive that rule since they’d come so far.

When my son’s team went to the Jr Olympic tournament about 10 years ago, the rules handout said all games would be played under NFHS rules. Sure as snot we got caught. We were playing an Az team and our coach was shoving courtesy runners in for the P and C. The 2^nd time he did it, the other coach called time and went to the umpire claiming an illegal substitution. The umpire was of course from there, they didn’t use courtesy runners, and we got pinged.  SO its really good to make sure what the rules are you’re playing under.

I have seen it happen once in a H.S. game also.Winning pitcher gets the save.The save was a 1 1/3 effort.In a full 7 game.All it did for me was reinforce the fact that our H.C. with 25yrs. experience had no clue.Just what I had been hearing around town for years.

Originally Posted by proudhesmine:

I have seen it happen once in a H.S. game also.Winning pitcher gets the save.The save was a 1 1/3 effort.In a full 7 game.All it did for me was reinforce the fact that our H.C. with 25yrs. experience had no clue.Just what I had been hearing around town for years.

I know many coaches don’t know the scoring rules very well, but then again, very few people do. I certainly wouldn’t classify someone as having “no clue” because he got that one wrong. Of the 4 require conditions for getting a save, the last one gives the most trouble to the most people. But most folks don’t even realize those conditions are there, so if they get it wrong, its not that they are stupid, only ignorant. But more importantly, knowing that particular rule has absolutely nothing to do with being a capable coach.

My post has nothing to do with any book scoring.My post has to do with (without the details) How does a competent H.S. coach get himself in that type of situation?This is something you would expect to see down at the local rec league 10u team.

I know many coaches don’t know the scoring rules very well, but then again, very few people do ... its not that they are stupid, only ignorant.

Originally Posted by proudhesmine:

My post has nothing to do with any book scoring.My post has to do with (without the details) How does a competent H.S. coach get himself in that type of situation?This is something you would expect to see down at the local rec league 10u team.

I guess I’m not understanding  you. Are you saying the “situation” is having a pitcher pitch in the same game he had already pitched in? If that’s it, I agree it shouldn’t be done, but I don’t know that it’s a sign of a lack of competence. Its hard to say a coach is doing something “wrong” or “incompetent” if he follows the rules. I guess it’s a question of being legally right as opposed to being morally right.

stats, completely 100% correct.Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.They are still just kids.For now at least..............