What does a lefty need. . .

Welcome Lefty.

Just to give you a frame of reference, I have 2 sons who are RHPs...one in double-A minor league ball (played 4 years D1 baseball) and another who is a senior in HS and will play D1 baseball as well.

The two most important pieces of advice I can give you are: 1) to focus on your academics and 2) at your age, baseball-wise...learn as much about the game as you can and keep it fun!

Both of my sons would emphasize these two things too.

Academics: You will not believe how many doors will open for you if you combine strong academics with being a good baseball player. It is a great combination to stretch yourself beyond what others without both are able to do. Conversely, poor academics can keep even baseball doors shut that you may have dreamed about. Nearly every "old time" poster on here can tell you more than one story about a very talented kid who was good enough to play in college but not the pros who found himself with nothing (or far less than he dreamt of) because of poor academics.

Learn the game and keep it fun!: Through my older son I have met a lot of young men who now play anywhere from D1 to the major leagues. I still know many of them and their families. One thing I hear from them all, over and over, is to not let the "fun" part escape...most especially by prematurely focusing too far down the road. You are a good player now. Work on trying to get better each year. Think about what you need to do to make your HS team, then after that your HS varsity team, etc... This other stuff will start to come into focus in a couple of years. That is when some of your questions can be better answered.

Good luck and stick around here for a little while. We're eager to help!

quote:

Justbaseball said.... "The two most important pieces of advice I can give you are: 1) to focus on your academics and 2) at your age, baseball-wise...learn as much about the game as you can and keep it fun!"

2015Lefty,

Welcome! While my baseball sons are a little younger than JUSTBASEBALLs, his advice is GOLDEN. I have a college freshmen, and a high school sophomore. It is the exact same deal with them. Good academics give you more options, and have fun on the ballfield. 'Nuf said. Best of luck going forward!

quote:

Just wondering what a LHP would need to be recruited by a high D1? mid/low D1? D2 or 3? NAIA? I'd also like some info on what I need to do in the academic range as far as GPA, grades, extracurricular activities, etc.

To give everyone a frame of refrence, I'm a 14 year old 8th grader that tops out at 72 and cruises at 67-70 (take into account that I've been throwing that with a hurt arm-when healthy I'm probably even harder.) I throw a 4-seam FB, Change, 2-seamer, slider, slurve and cutter.

2015Lefty,

A healthy arm is important to recruiters. Throwing with an injured arm is not good. Get that arm taken care of now before you reach the most important recruiting years!

Good academics add to a talented player's options but they won't make up for lack of talent. Work hard on both academics and baseball.

PG is spot on about the arm issues. Now is the time to get that arm healthy so that the problems don't linger on into HS baseball. The problems you have at 14 can be hurting your chances at 19 if you don't get the arm completely healthy now.

I'm not an expert but it seems that throwing a slider, slurve and cutter might result in a few too many supinated pitches thrown hard.

Thanks everyone for the help so far! As for the arm, I'm resting from pitching for a few weeks (but I can still play the field (so this entire season won't go here ) When I come back I'm planning to cut back on the breaking stuff.

As always great advice given above. Also I would suggest you look at the Perfect Game website and look at the various LHP who have recently committed. This will give you some idea of what talent level those schools recruit. Of course these numbers don't tell everything but it will give you an idea of the size, velocity and Perfect Game's evaluations of these players.
We have used it by checking the rosters of schools my son is interested in and then seeing how Perfect Game evaluated them at similar points in their development. It has been very helpful in identifying what talent level these schools typically recruit.

Good Luck, but most importantly take care of that arm!!!!!!!

quote:

To give everyone a frame of refrence, I'm a 14 year old 8th grader that tops out at 72 and cruises at 67-70 (take into account that I've been throwing that with a hurt arm-when healthy I'm probably even harder.) I throw a 4-seam FB, Change, 2-seamer, slider, slurve and cutter.

No 14 year old needs all of those pitches ( I agree with CaDad's opinion on too many supinated pitches).

Take care of your arm now, if it hurts, stop what you are doing.

quote:

Originally posted by 2015Lefty:
Hi, everyone,

Just wondering what a LHP would need to be recruited by a high D1? mid/low D1? D2 or 3? NAIA? I'd also like some info on what I need to do in the academic range as far as GPA, grades, extracurricular activities, etc.

To give everyone a frame of refrence, I'm a 14 year old 8th grader that tops out at 72 and cruises at 67-70 (take into account that I've been throwing that with a hurt arm-when healthy I'm probably even harder.) I throw a 4-seam FB, Change, 2-seamer, slider, slurve and cutter.

Thanks a lot!

Hey man, I have a few thoughts that I'd like to share with you.

fyi - I'm a Junior MIF/3B in the middle of the recruiting process. I'm sure my advice will change significantly from now until I'm committed, but here's what I have learned so far from the process.

1. I would give anything to be in your position right now - a 2015. You will be entering high school next year...that is a blessing itself. High school is some of the most formative (or has been for me at least) years of your life. I'm sure the older members on this forum would agree with me. Athletically, you have so much potential in front of you. From an athletic standpoint, the number one piece of advice I want to give you is to get into the weightroom, and do it correctly. go to www.ericcressey.com and devour all the incredible information there. If you have the money, get ultimate off-season training, or I think he's coming out with a baseball specific product this year. Or if you live in New England (its worth the drive if you live in other states besides Mass...), train at Cressey Performance. I know this may sound like an add for Eric and his stuff, but honestly he has changed my career and I would give anything to be a freshman right now and have 4 years left to train with him. Regardless - the main point is to work absurdly hard. Get healthy, and get better.

2. Leave the bull**** out of your high school experience. You have all your life to party, drink, and do bad things. In high school, there are countless opportunities to do bad, illegal things. To put it in perspective, one of my best friends on my team last year had committed to a middle of the road/low D1 school. Still D1 baseball regardless. He could definitely play, but I was a little bit skeptical about him being a "D1" talent. In other words, he was pretty much exchangeable at the D1 level. Anyways, he got caught drinking last year, suspended for 3 days from school. The coach at his D1 wasn't having any of it and took away all of his scholarship money. The loss of the money made him unable to attend that school. Obviously, he has learned his lesson and has gotten his act together, but it didn't need to happen. He is now playing at a JUCO, great baseball school, but not what he wanted. Surround yourself with motivated ballplayers and other athletes. Train with them all year long. I've been to 1 party in my lifetime, partly because I was nervous of my friends driving home drunk, and I can say that I have much more fun working hard, joking, and competing with my baseball boys in the gym than at parties.

3. Start the process early. But only if you enjoy it. No need for a freshman or sophomore to participate in showcases that they don't want to be at. I enjoy showcases because I like the feedback, exposure, and evaluation. Don't do it because you are forced to. Write coaches emails + actual handwritten letters. The difference is huge. I sent out at the end of my sophomore year emails to about 50 schools, and then I hand wrote letters to the top 10 that I was interested to at the time. The difference is incredible. Of all of the 10 schools that I wrote to, regardless of how much of a reach athletically it was, I heard back from each of them, and all of them commented on the fact that I wrote them an actual letter. A passage from a response that I got from a NESCAC school is "Thank you for contacting my office and taking the initiative as a sophomore. The individualized note makes a difference, I'll be sure to get to see you this summer." Just do it.

4. Make sure you LOVE baseball. All of this advice is useless if you don't love it. People call all the work I put into baseball "hard-work." I guess I see it differently. Spending hours in the gym, on indoor turf + batting cages during the winter to me is like a vacation to me. Sure, physically, metabolically, and cardiovascular-ly it would be considered hard workk, but to me I love it. If you don't then its hard to force it onto anyone.

5. Tryout for the varsity team freshman year. I did, and made it. 4 year letter-winner looks much better than 3 or 2 year. I was the only freshman in my class who tried out, all the others were either A) making fun of me because "i thought i was nasty and didn't have a chance" or B) scared out of their minds of even trying out. I made it and started 3/4 years, looks good for colleges.


6. Have fun. High school ball is awesome. Playing with your best friends, in front of your friends, and later in front of recruiters is something that you will never experience outside of high school unless you are a draft prospect.

7. Give everything your all. If you don't play in college, you only have 4 years left of your baseball career. that sucks. make the most of it. If you work hard enough, you might extend that to 8 years left. If you throw 90, ignore this and buy a BMW - your set.

8. Don't overuse your arm this year and this summer. Please. Nobody cares that you threw 100 innings in 8th grade.

9. If you have access to a very good college prospect team, play on it as opposed to doing showcases during the summer. This team MUST get you tons of exposure, be one of the top 50-100 teams in the country, and travel all over to find recruiters. Playing on a team has many benefits. For one - it significantly takes the pressure off of you during the recruiting process. Instead of being all alone at an overwhelming showcase, you will be with 15-20 of your best friends all summer, each one supporting you through the long and sometimes stressful process. Another reason is I've found that after I do well in a game in front of coaches instead of a showcase, I get a lot more attention. Coaches don't care that you can drop some bombs in BP or take some ground balls without any pressure on you. They care that you come up big in the late innings, that you are always where you are supposed to be in a game situation, that you are a good teammmate, and that you know how to compete and win. Finally, the last advantage of being on a prospect team vs. showcase is the simple fact of selectivity. If your name is on the roster of a top 50 team, that puts you on some radar screens already. Of course, you'll have to perform well, but its a lot better than simply going online, signing up for and paying for a non-invite only showcase.


Hope this helps, enjoy the ride.

Gr8 post spartans. That will be copied and emailed to my 2013 lefty.

Thx,

t

quote:

Originally posted by 2015Lefty:
Thanks everyone for the help so far! As for the arm, I'm resting from pitching for a few weeks (but I can still play the field (so this entire season won't go here ) When I come back I'm planning to cut back on the breaking stuff.

A hurt arm has nothing to do with your throwing breaking pitches. It has more to do with your mechanics.

1) Go to a doctor and have that arm checked.
2) If cleared, go to a qualified instructor to
clean up your mechanics.
3) Long toss to promote endurance, arm speed and
to reinforce your arm slot.

To answer your question, though, 85.

I can tell you what righty's need at various levels and you can adjust downard slightly for lefty's. The following would be PG type stats from your Junior year most likely.

Level Ht Wt Max Speed
High D1 6.3 195 90

Low D1 6.3 195 85-86

High D3 6.1 180 82

Low D3 6-6.1 175 79

Top Tier D1 Program this season

Friday starter - 5'11 165 listed
Sat starter - 6'0 175 listed
Sun starter - 6'0 190 listed

And we all know about listed numbers on rosters. The fact is its a stretch to believe that any of these guys are actually 6'0. And who cares anyway?

You can google any college roster you want to and you find the numbers yourself.

What you will not find is velo, command, movement, ability to command quality off speed pitches, ability to pitch, ability to compete, ability to do what is needed to play at the college level.

Forget the numbers listed above because you can not control them. Focus on what you can control and then bust your tail. And don't believe everything you hear and read. Most of it is BS.

As Coach May knows, there is no height or weight requirement at any level, amateur or not.

Here is an LHP way, way under 6' who didn't think he even could play in college. He's in the $how four years later. So when I see a height requirement posted for each level, I simply chuckle. I know a 24 yo RHP (listed 5-11) who was undrafted out of high school this () close to getting called up to the big club.

Don't ever let anyone else set your limits.

Tim Collins

My post was not a slam on PG and their numbers I want to be clear about that. No one respects Jerry and what PG does anymore than I do. My point is there is a lot of misinformation out there about size and college baseball.

LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION!!!!!

(1) Get healthy now--your body is going through a lot of changes these days and will continue to do so for the next several years.
(2) Concentrate on refining your change-up. Neglect your slider and curve for a while. If you have a plus change-up in high school to complement a sneaky fastball and you're a lefty, you're in a good spot.
(3) Take the next couple of years to work on your mental approach to pitching--don't just get on the mound and throw--devise a plan before every game, watch pitchers who are more experienced than you, become a sponge and absorb everything you can about pitching.
(4) Work on your change-up some more.
(5) Did I mention that you shouldn't forget to work on your change-up?

I don't know what the average is... Ht/Wt for any level. Average size is not a number anyone cares about if a player/pitcher has enough talent. Talent is the only true requirement.

I would say that a pitchers size, especially height, is much more of an issue for professional baseball. And that has even changed a lot in the past decade or so. Maybe that's because someone took notice of the winners of the Cy Young award.

This year I expect to see some (not so tall) pitchers getting selected in the first round. The advantage of height involves projection. Projection is more important to MLB clubs. Some pitchers don't need as much projection as others. If you take a 6'5" RHP who throws in the low 90s, you might project/guess that he could end up being as good as a Sonny Gray or Trevor Bauer or Dylan Bundy, someday. The more you project... the bigger the gamble.

I don't think kids like Sonny Gray spend a lot of time wondering what would happen if he were 6'5". And there are many 6'5" pitchers who wish they were as good as Sonny Gray.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:

What you will not find is velo, command, movement, ability to command quality off speed pitches, ability to pitch, ability to compete, ability to do what is needed to play at the college level.

BINGO!

Love Dad04 and Coach May's contribution to this thread.

I love being a member of this site as my 8000+ posts attest. There is one drawback to it and one reason I am glad I did not know about the site while my son was going through the recruiting process. The drawback is that it can seem sometimes that if your kid is not Sandy Koufax or Nolan Ryan or Tim Lincecum then there is no shot to play and/or succeed in college.

It takes talent indeed to play past high school but it also takes talent to play in high school in the first place

How many of us parents who post here even played at the high school level let alone beyond that? I am guessing less than one or two percent of us... yet somehow words on a website make us all experts on the subject

No, I am convinced there are more important things at work to be successful in college than raw talent or physical size. I am convinced it is the ability for a kid to refuse to be told NO. To refuse to let anyone stand in the way of his dream - to play college baseball. Love the movie Rudy. Not because in actuality Rudy only achieved a modest goal for the average college football player but because he maximzed his own abilities and refused to accept NO for an answer.

The most important attribute for the college player is the strength of will imho. The power to overcome adversity. The power of perseverence. The belief that God will never let you down if you give it everything you got. Your kids (or you players) already have enough physical talent to play past high school or you wouldn't be here reading and posting on this website. The question your kids (or you the player) need to answer is are you willing to do what is necessary to overcome all the NO's out there? There are tons of them and they never go away. You can either defeat them or let them defeat you.

Bum,
Take a look at what he listed for his breaking pitches. Slider, slurve, cutter. Those are all pitches thrown fairly hard. The combination of hard and supinated tends to make them hard on the arm. That is overdoing the breaking pitches for a 14yo. Even if it doesn't hurt his arm it isn't developing his fastball.

This guy knows how to pitch and has signed with a quality DII school.

LHP Addison Williams

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
Bum,
Take a look at what he listed for his breaking pitches.

CADad, you're right, I agree.

High school ball and even college has a lot of junkballers. The main problem is, they rely on the junkball first.

Without a firm fastball, all is for naught in the long run.

I probably should not have used the word "required". But those numbers were from a sampling of PG stats at various levels. Dont slam me for posting some data analysis. Its clear that everything else being equal, higher level programs would prefer taller, bigger kids. One college camp we went to, the coach made that perfectly clear. But Im probaly wrong and Im sure Vanderbilt is looking for 5'7' righties throwing 82 with great movement and control.

Everyone should of course work hard and in the end your height is your height. Here is a link to a pretty succesful MLB pitcher. http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play....377&topic_id=7417714
I am not trying to discourage anyone, just trying to help them figure out where there talent may lead them.

quote:

Originally posted by BK35:
....Its clear that everything else being equal, higher level programs would prefer taller, bigger kids.....
But Im probaly wrong and Im sure Vanderbilt is looking for 5'7' righties throwing 82 with great movement and control.

I think you may be confusing correlation with causation.
Vanderbilt, and just about any high level program, is looking for pitchers throwing 92 with great movement and control. When they find one, they don't give much thought to whether he is right or left-handed or how tall he is.

I think there is a correlation between pitch velocity and pitcher height, but colleges aren't recruiting height; they're recruiting the velocity, along with movement and control.

They're not looking for 5' 7" righties throwing 82, and they're not looking for 6' 7" righties throwing 82 either.

what a LHP or RHP needs is to get batters out on a consistent basis--it is as simple as that

quote:

Originally posted by BK35:
But Im probaly wrong and Im sure Vanderbilt is looking for 5'7' righties throwing 82 with great movement and control.

I know this is sarcasm. I get that. But why would one presume that there is necessarily a correlation between height and velocity? I've been reading this theme on HSBBW for years now. Let me tell you something, I'm not convinced there is.

Bum,
I think it is quite easy to show that height is correlated to velocity. The average height of young American males is 5' 10". Below is a chart (formatted source here) which shows the distribution of heights. There are as many men who fall in the range 5' 4" to 5' 7" as there are in the range 6' 1" to 6'4". Simple observation tells us that the short group doesn't throw as hard as the tall group.

Population of American Men in various height categories
Height Range S.D. Expected number
4'7" - 4'10" -4σ 3,200
4'10" - 5'1" -3σ 135,000
5'1" - 5'4" -2σ 2,100,000
5'4" - 5'7" -1σ 13,600,000
5'7" - 5'10" average 34,000,000
5'10" - 6'1" average 34,000,000
6'1" - 6'4" 1σ 13,600,000
6'4" - 6'7" 2σ 2,100,000
6'7" - 6'10" 3σ 135,000
6'10" - 7'1" 4σ 3,200
7'1" - 7'4" 5σ 28
7'4" - 7'7" 6σ 0

Interesting, but how many 5'4" men are actually pitching in h.s. or college? I didn't know of any. I didn't know any that even turned out for baseball.

I don't mean to give you homework, but a more relevant analysis would be the correlation of velocity to height at the higher levels (college or pro). My guess is if there's any correlation at all it's not statistically significant.

I took the 2010 fangraphs data for all the qualified pitchers. The average height was a bit over 6'3" and simply running a linear trend line through the data showed about a .25 mph increase per inch of height.

Maybe we are getting off track a little I don't know. If were talking about what it takes to pitch at the college level its the ability to pitch. Of course there is a certain level of velo that has to be there. Depending on the ability to command, quality of the off speed pitches, movement, lhp - rhp , etc - that amount of velo will vary. I have never seen a kid who could pitch at a certain level not pitch at that level as long as they brought the previous mentioned abilites to the mound with them.

Being tall and having those qualities is great. Being shorter and having those qualities is great. Its not going to be the determining factor at the college level of play. To say you have to be a certain height to do it is absurd. Its simply not true. To say you have to be a certain height to get a shot at a certain school could be true. But then the schools that have a bunch of good looking tall pitchers who can't get guys out dont stick around in the profession very long either.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
I took the 2010 fangraphs data for all the qualified pitchers. The average height was a bit over 6'3" and simply running a linear trend line through the data showed about a .25 mph increase per inch of height.

If I understand this correctly the difference in velocity between the 6'3" guy and the 5'11" guy is 1 MPH?

Bum,
We've been talking about different concepts. I think you're referring to a correlation between height and velocity among high level college and professional pitchers. As CADad has commented, there isn't a strong correlation, and that happens because those teams really don't much care how tall the pitcher is, but rather (among other things) how fast a pitcher throws.

BK35 and I were discussing if being tall helps a pitcher throw faster. The answer is it helps a lot.
As you noted, there are darn few pitchers in the 5' 4" to 5' 7" range, even though the pool of potential pitchers is just as large as the 6' 1" to 6' 4" range. And you're right, the guys in the shorter pool don't even try-- they already have realized they can't compete, either by self selection or being cut.

I'll put it in terms of more normal heights. There are roughly 5 times more 5' 11" men than 6' 3" men (these are real heights, without shoes). So if height weren't important in pitching ability, we'd expect to see 5 times more 5' 11" pitchers than 6' 3" pitchers. But we don't.

A couple years ago, I went through MLB rosters looking for evidence to encourage the father of two "vertically challenged" h.s. players. At that time, there were more MLB pitchers whose published heights were over 6'6" than under 6'0". (I chose not to share that stat with him.)

There are about 500 men under 6'0" for every one man over 6'6", but the minuscule population of very tall men produces more top pitchers.

I don't think you're likely to find superlative pitching talent just by recruiting very tall players, and I doubt any successful college or pro team looks at height before talent. However, if you recruit superlative pitching talent, you'll probably end up with more tall guys than otherwise.

That said, the numbers shouldn't discourage any individual player from giving it his best shot because every player of any height has to be undeterred by long odds to have any chance of succeeding at the highest levels of the game.

When you counted those under 6', remember to "round up".

You don't play baseball in your socks.

Swampboy thanks for posting that. I was trying to say the same thing you did a much better job than I did. Outstanding post.

quote:

A couple years ago, I went through MLB rosters looking for evidence to encourage the father of two "vertically challenged" h.s. players. At that time, there were more MLB pitchers whose published heights were over 6'6" than under 6'0".

Swampboy,

I think the statistics you brought up actually prove a point. That point being that things are changing.

Here are some statistics from the 40 man rosters for 2011 show the following.

14 pitchers taller than 6’6”
22 pitchers shorter than 6’0”
44 pitchers listed at exactly 6’0”
The vast majority of MLB pitchers are listed between 6’1” and 6’3”
Typically most pitchers are listed at a rounded up number or an inch taller than they really are. Jeremy Hellickson is listed at 6’1”. He might be, but he would have had to grow more than an inch in the last year.

Anyway, there’s no doubt that size can be beneficial. There’s also quite a few who just didn’t care about that. I also believe we are seeing a change in the way MLB scouting departments look at pitchers. It wasn’t that many years ago that some clubs would not even allow scouts to turn in a 6’0” or under RHP. It hasn’t changed completely, but it is headed in a different direction.

Maybe this change in thinking has to do with pitchers like Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana and Tim Lincecum who have all won Cy Young awards multiple times in recent times.

The odds are so much against everyone, no matter what size they are. Also, while there is some correlation between size and velocity, I think it is way overplayed. The hardest throwers have come in all sizes (Billy wagner). It used to be that decision makers thought smaller pitchers would be less durable and more prone to injury. However, it has been proven that tall pitchers suffer injuries at the same rate as smaller pitchers.

Everything considered, those over 6’0” will always have an advantage. There are certain advantages that tall pitchers have over not so tall pitchers, but IMO that advantage is not as great as some might think. I used to be a big believer in tall pitchers being the best, but have changed my thinking on this a lot over the years.

PGStaff- Just out of curiosity I'd like to pose two different scenarios to you. I think I know the answers to each but just for the sake of people getting a better understanding of the differential in the discussion, I'd like to get your opinion of it.

Scenario #1- You are a college coach who is out recruiting. You have two different pitchers, each RHP throwing 88-90 with decent run. They both have pretty good breaking pitches and developing changeups. One is 5'11" 190 lbs., the other is 6'4" 190 lbs. The shorter one seems to have more present control and a little more movement on the ball, and the 6'4" one has a bit of trouble repeating his delivery but tends to have a little more bite on his breaking pitch.

Scenario #2- You are a scout for a Major League team, and come across the exact same situation at the same game.

Which player do you prefer in each respective hypothetical scenario?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that tall pitchers had the perceived advantage based on a higher release point, not necessarily more velo. A higher release point creates more downward plane/angle. By getting on top of the ball with the greater downward plane, it will in theory induce more groundballs. Granted a larger guy might be able to throw harder, but that is not always the case. Proper mechanics and natural ability has some pitchers of smaller stature throwing gas.

Another perceived advantage is the stride length and release point. In theory a taller pitcher with longer limbs who strides closer to home plate and has a release point further out in front has an advantage as well. Now there are certainly exceptions where smaller pitchers actually have longer a stride than their taller counterparts. However by and large, taller pitchers will have longer strides further out in front, and higher release points.

quote:

Originally posted by 3FingeredGlove:
I think there is a correlation between pitch velocity and pitcher height, but colleges aren't recruiting height; they're recruiting the velocity, along with movement and control.

I have to agree with the above, the velocity will determine where you play, not your height. What also will be determined is the pitcher's pitchability, and to be able to improve on the things needed to be successful to help that program.

Vanderbilt has some mighty tall pitchers but surprisingly enough they have under 6' as well. I am pretty sure it is not just height alone that got them recruited. They all have had to have at least 3 good pitches they throw for strikes.

As far as height and release point, that is part of the equation as those things can be adjusted. Velocity, movement, control are just as important.

My favorite MLB pitcher is Josh Johnson, 6'7" with great stuff. That height has to work to his advantage. I hear he appears (on the mound in cleats), to look about 7 foot.

You can't tell me that's not an advantage.

JMO.

JH, good question.