What if they dont make the high school team?

in addition to the above, they make the team but they don't get enough playing time - same question, travel teams, etc.

joyee2 and catcher09 : Please read the thread ' Is High School Baseball Still Necessary?' found here in the 'General Items Forum'.

You will get a wide range of opinions regarding the importance, or lack of importance, of playing for your high school team.

My advice would be to participate as well as you can regardless of the large number of players turning out and the politics involved. You said it yourself,joyee2, that if you don't play in the 9th grade then you won't get a chance down the line. Keep your options open by earning a spot on your high school roster.

If your high school experience is not providing you the necessary opportunities that you feel you need to progress to the next level then certainly pursue the other options of travel ball, showcases, and camps. Your baseball resume,in my opinion,will always look better with high school experience listed.

If your resume is thin then bolster it with whatever you can and be prepared to explain it.

The two of you are in a tougher situation than others but as the old cliche says...'when the going gets tough, the tough get going!'. You guys are not the only ones in this position,and you certainly won't be the last, so swing away!

Keep us posted and much success to each of you.

also keep in mind HS baseball time is also "weed out" time in terms of talent--many of the incoming 9th graders were studs in the youth leagues but wont be when they are not the biggest kids on the field any longer.

The weed out process will contnue from the frosh team to the JV team to the Varsity team--call it "survival of the fittest" if you will

I can understand your concern, joyee2. My son's HS had around 200 kids tryout. My son made the team (no sour grapes here), but some pretty good ballplayers didn't.

And some of those who didn't make the team were much better players than two or three who did make the team. Those things happen. Always have, always will.

What does the player who faces tough tryout odds do? Read some of the articles on this website (the main site) on making the HS team. There is solid advice in those articles. Do everything possible to be prepared.

Work hard this fall and over the winter. That can make a huge difference. And that will let the player take it easier on his arm for the last couple of weeks before tryouts. Too many kids "cram" at the last minute & head into tryouts with tired arms.

IF the player doesn't make it as a freshman, try again. Work hard to be so good they can't easily be ignored.

A player who doesn't make the HS should try to find a team to play on. And should try to get on a top notch select team in the summer & fall.

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Hope your son makes it but...

Always told my kids. You want to stay out of the politics, get off the bubble...

Nothing like a heavy dose of reality to teach and to seriously motivate.

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joyee2 | catcher09

Ask any BB coach and he will tell you that the best thing for players who want to play and may not be good enough to make the HS team is find somewhere else to play.

Harold Reynolds ESPN BB Tonite commentator said it best. It's better for a player to play on a team that is not that good, and get a lot of playing time, then play on a supposedly great team, and sit on the bench.

Find a program that plays on week-ends, DH's on Saturday and Sundays. Locally we have those in San Francisco.

I'm sure you can find something similar in your area.

My personal advice, don't tie yourself down to one team yet. It's still to early for that. Find as many palces to play as you can. You get better by "playing", not watching from the bench.

There will be plenty of time later after you are "worthy" to worry about which team is the best to play for, showcase for, and travel with.

JMO

TRhit : Nice post. I'll add that sometimes the 'stud' player from the youth league discovers that it not only takes brawn to play this game but also brains.

If they haven't challenged themselves mentally every bit as much as physically they most likely will struggle trying to get up to the next level.

'Survival of the fittest' includes the brain too!

Ramrod : Thanks for sharing that gem from Harold Reynolds. Many players with this dilemma on their hands can benefit from Reynold's advice.

I know of one kid whose father is in the MLB Hall of Fame who didn't make his HS frosh or JV teams. He did make the varsity team eventually.

He was a big, fast, brainy kid who went on to star on Stanford's football team. Seems he could catch balls; he just couldn't throw 'em.

I believe Curt Schilling didn't play on his HS team until his senior year. The ability was there but the story I heard was that there was politics involved. I got the story third hand so I could be way off on this one.

Bernie Williams didn't even play baseball until his senior year of HS

Kid I played with for a few years didn't play organized ball until he was 13. He was a little guy with more desire than talent at the time. He ended up as a 2nd round pick.

Thanks for the advice.as I understan it they will be several kids trying out that never played a day of travel ball never had any competition other than rec ball.but like I said Their are at least 30 kids maybe 35 that could play on anyones high school team.The real hard part about not making it would be not being able to play travel ball until after june because the high school makes the players play on their summer team until then and they'll be no teams to play for until then.catcher 09 where are you from in lanta?

joyee - you have a PM

pardon the ignorance but,what is a pm? and catcher09 where are you from?

joyee2,
PM = Private Messaging.
You can post messages privately to another board member. Click on the "GO" tab at the top of the page, then "MY SPACE", then "Private Messaging". Another quick way to start a PM is to click on the board member's name in a post and then select the "Invite to a private Topic" option.

Joyee2,
Nothing is etched in stone about WHERE a player has to play to move on to the next level. Bottom line, in order to play baseball at ANY level all a player has to have is JUST the talent and the opportunity to play at that level. No, you don’t have to play high school baseball or be 6’2” tall or throw 90 or even attend a showcase to play college baseball...but...we also need to be realistic. There is a well worn path to college baseball and that path goes right through the high school baseball field. I agree the 18u travel teams attract more college coaches but you would be hard pressed to find a player on an 18u roster that doesn’t play high school baseball.
I know Atlanta and Cobb County are hot beds of baseball talent but I still think the player that has aspirations of playing college baseball should be able to make a high school roster. You talk of politics.... we’ve all seen and heard of that dreaded influence in every program! I say ignore it and impress on your son to work hard because most successful coaches are more impressed by talent than political pressure. Besides, if we lay the blame on politics in high school and attempt to avoid it, what will you do when you realize politics exists on the college teams?
Fungo

Fungo, you have a PM

If you have the talent you make the team, regardless of whatever "politics" may be involved--no coach worth his salt excludes a kid who he thinks can help him win.

Coaches who don't win don't stay around long, no matter what level

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TR agreed...My point above....

Be above the bubble

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quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
If you have the talent you make the team, regardless of whatever "politics" may be involved--no coach worth his salt excludes a kid who he thinks can help him win.

Coaches who don't win don't stay around long, no matter what level

Perhaps the author is generalizing, and just not acknowledging in his post that exceptions exist. Otherwise, "naive" is the word that must be applied. Every day there are people who cut off their noses to spite their face in all aspects of life. Coaches are not exempt to this, as anyone can readily see with some observation. And to ingore the effects of politics in HS ball is also to put on rose colored glasses.

To say every kid in America who has the talent & deserves to make his HS team does so, is naive and incorrect. The vast majority of the time the statement is true. But not "always". And to the kid who is one of the exceptions, the fact that such a statement is true the "vast majority" of the time is of little comfort.

Texan -- 200 kids -- WOW! PantherSon plays for one of the largest high schools in Texas -- and even so, finding 15 solid contributors for the varsity team can be a challenge.

TEXAN

As I have told you before be careful who you call what-- NAIVE !!! in a pigs eye !!! Look in the mirror--- Some of us live in real world--do you?

I also am not afraid to say who I am--are you/--I dont think so--why is that?

After reading TRhit's posts for a year or so, there are many words I would use to describe him.

Naive ain't one of 'em.

i don't know of too many players that are good enough to go to the next level that didn't make their high school team. if that much talent is there it will be seen.

Kremer

Thanx

Fungo : Right on the mark...again!

TRhit : Unfortunately not all coaches are 'worth their salt'. When confronted/confounded by one then you best have your wits about you because alot of things won't make much sense.

Rob Kremer : A good observation from the Great Pacific Northwest!

HS programs vary greatly in talent from one school to another and the star player at one school might not make the team at another school. That is the real world.

Sometimes good players don't make it on great teams.

If players who aren't good enough to play at a D1 can go to a DIII, get playing time and end up playing in the major leagues why does anyone think it is impossible that talent will be overlooked by a HS coach. It is very rare, as most HS coaches are smarter than parents would like to give them credit for, but it does happen. Sometimes the late bloomers never get a chance in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
TEXAN

As I have told you before be careful who you call what-- NAIVE !!! in a pigs eye !!! Look in the mirror--- Some of us live in real world--do you?

I also am not afraid to say who I am--are you/--I dont think so--why is that?

Absolutely I live in the real world. I was wondering the same about some others, though.

I am basing my comments on my own personal observations. If you have always seen the best 20 players make the team, great for your area. I cannot say that. I have seen better players not make the cut. Sometimes very significantly better (this past year, for instance). You cannot refute what I have seen, for it happened regardless of your opinion.

Read my prior post again & carefully.

In case you didn't read the PM exchange we had, I will repeat myself. After a bad experience with internet boards, I do not reveal my identity to just anyone. To some people over the years, yes. To anyone, no. It is just not worth the hassle when some idiot goes postal and starts harrassing you and your family.

You seem to have a penchant for falling back on that particular item. Personally, I will let all of my posts speak for me.

And if anyone wants to fall back on the "sour grapes" excuse, my son made the team. And made the to JV team as a freshman, actually. He has not been subject to these problems, fortunately.

Gotwood4sale, you hit the nail on the head. Not all coaches are worth their salt. Not all are rational. They are just like the rest of the society. There are some bad apples.

TRHit, you can go into an attack mode if you want. I will not comment further in this thread.

You have many good contributions. But this is one area where your absolute view is not absolute.

This situation is more likely to happen in a California, Texas or Florida than in a Montana, North Dakota or Maine. Nothing against those states but there are just more good players in some places.

Also, when a coach selects his team, there can be reasons beyond talent why someone makes the team and someone doesn't. Sometimes these can be legitimate reason, sometimes not!

When I was a young high school player a senior was told not to come out for baseball (by the coach) because he would not make the team. That same kid did play legion ball and later played in the Pittsburgh Pirates organization. If it can happen in Iowa, I'm sure it has happened in other parts of the country.

Another similiar example that is much more recent. A freshman starter for an ACC team was arguably there top player and hitter.

As a High School senior he got very little playing time in Florida. On the team... just didn't play! It cost him in the draft and he had the tools to be a good draft pick. I fully expect him to play pro ball after his junior year in college. Heck, he might end up in the Big Leagues.

The ACC team found him at a Unsigned Senior Showcase in Ft Myers.

Joyee, small world isnt it - especially in Baseball - I updated the PM

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
If you have the talent you make the team, regardless of whatever "politics" may be involved--no coach worth his salt excludes a kid who he thinks can help him win.

Coaches who don't win don't stay around long, no matter what level

TR...Unfortunately there are probably more coaches than anyone would like to admit that may not be as sharp as all would want.

I think you are right on target for most situations but there are a few out there that may not be politics but just stupidity. Situations where a coach requires playing with certain summer teams or has preconceived notions on who the players are. I also don't think that in many areas HS Baseball coaches jobs are on the line if they win or lose. There is still a good ole' boy network.

My sons friend did not make HS team junior or senior year. He tried out for D3 college team in NH and has started for 3 years...Never give up!!!!

This is an ignorant question, but how does "late Senior signing" work? If a senior is not signed in November or April, doesn't the normal college admissions process force him to accept admission somewhere by May or so ? If a player holds out in hopes of a "late signing" (via showcase or something) couldn't that jeopardize his entry into some colleges that fall? I can understand that a baseball program may be able to pull some strings to get a player admitted late. But, if a player doesn't sign in November or April, the chance is good that they may not sign in the summer either. If that would happen, are players potentially left without a school to attend that fall? I realize that a few schools have rolling admissions, but a lot of schools seem to have early spring deadlines for accepting an admission... particularly the more competitive ones.

We actually saw a late signing during a summer camp in 2004. A Big Ten school picked up a shortstop at the camp. Seemed strange then and still does.

What am I missing?

Snowball

Most colleges I've ever dealt with have an athletic counselor assigned to handle BB players or athletes. My suggestion would be to identify the school of interest, athletic counselor, and pose your questions.

At my son's college he has an athletic counselor specifically assigned to handle his academic needs. He meets with him about every other week to track progress.

When I played the athletic department handled all these issues and I would just call the coach if I had a question.

Don't know if that helps but I've always found it best to go direct to the source.

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Snowball...

Good question. Haven't personally been through this process but it seeems only logical that a school has a real interest in seeing that they field respresentative teams for a variety of good reasons. That being said, with the draft, teams a dynamic entity not a static one. Things happen. Spots open up...

At my son's DI...

one scholarship sophomore left in August for JC because he wanted to get drafted...

Another signee decided in August to go to JC instead of the 4 year for the same reason...

At one DII we were told that they sometimes lose players to DI's the last week before school starts.

I may be wrong but....These spots will be filled when possible. One High end West coast DI (not my sons) signed 3 players in mid August. Admissions seems to have gotten them in.

May be wrong but....It would seem that if you have to guts to wait things may open up in the spring, or in summer...

I realize I took this thread off-topic a little bit, but since we're talking about less travelled paths, indulge me <grin>.

I double-checked acceptance deadlines for 6 of the schools of interest for my son. All of them have the same schedule... apply by January 1 (or 10th or 15th), receive notification in April and make decision to enroll by May 1st. For kicks, I even checked VA Tech, which is the school that picked up a top player from the PG Unsigned Senior Showcase.... same admission schedule there too.

So, a player in the position of not signing anywhere by May, should probably accept admission somewhere so at least they have a school in the fall if nothing else works out. It might be a school the player feels they could try to walk-on for baseball. (JUCO would also be an option perhaps). Meanwhile, based on the input of the previous posts, it would seem that something could still open up at another school during the summer. If that happens, they would need to "disenroll" from the first school and likely lose any deposits made. But if the next school can turn the admissions keys and give them a baseball opportunity, it's probably worthwhile.

Does that sound right? It doesn't sound like the best route, but it would keep options open a little longer if necessary ?

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IMO....Always have plan A, B, C and then keep yourself open for Plan Z which you didn't plan for but shows up.

Know of a Non-Blue CA '06 who is looking at a recruited walk on situation which means he will apply in November and get in...but be open for openings that might show up in April, or the summer. Comitted, but playing the field simultaneously.

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