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what makes a college hitter

S s2fmf10+ posts
i was recently scanning some college baseball rosters (Florida State, Stanford, ASU, etc.) just to get a look and i was looking at the players state in high school, and their was a definite trend, in some schools more than others, as well as some areas the players came from more than others, that the players batting averages, homeruns, rbis decreased through their senior year. Many players had higher number their sophmore year as well, and one kid had a declining average every year of his career. I can understand why this is to a degree, that the kids are pitched much harder every year as their stature grows, but my real question is how to these kids go to the best division 1 schools in the country with those stats. And you may say well stats aren't a true reflection of a player in high school, but the trend is what struck me, that the stats decreased. And note most of these players weren't defenisve specialists like catchers or shortstops, or walk-ons (which was my initial thought). Hitters are hitters, and i don't see how a big time college would sign a kid who's average decreased from sophmore to junior year by 20 points or some sort of odd thing like that. Hitters are hitters, and in high school it seems to me a kid going to Stanford or Texas should be able to either bat high due to more walks or be crushing more homeruns, because if high school pitchers are having that much success against them their senior or junior years, how can they be ready to go play at a major D1.
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S s2fmf10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by s2fmf:
i was recently scanning some college baseball rosters (Florida State, Stanford, ASU, etc.) just to get a look and i was looking at the players stats in high school, and their was a definite trend, in some schools more than others, as well as some areas the players came from more than others, that the players batting averages, homeruns, rbis decreased through their senior year. Many players had higher number their sophmore year as well, and one kid had a declining average every year of his career. I can understand why this is to a degree, that the kids are pitched much harder every year as their stature grows, but my real question is how to these kids go to the best division 1 schools in the country with those stats. And you may say well stats aren't a true reflection of a player in high school, but the trend is what struck me, that the stats decreased. And note most of these players weren't defenisve specialists like catchers or shortstops, or walk-ons (which was my initial thought). Hitters are hitters, and i don't see how a big time college would sign a kid who's average decreased from sophmore to junior year by 20 points or some sort of odd thing like that. Hitters are hitters, and in high school it seems to me a kid going to Stanford or Texas should be able to either bat high due to more walks or be crushing more homeruns, because if high school pitchers are having that much success against them their senior or junior years, how can they be ready to go play at a major D1.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
I think one (possibly small) thing to keep in mind here in the sophistication of the coaching staffs. A freshman and sophomore may have only had limited at bats against a certain team, but by the time he gets to be a senior, most teams have an extensive book on that players hitting tendencies.

College Coaches scout, watch tape and read stats on the teams they play.... a fastball hitter who burned them last year, may well see only junk this year and if not disciplined at the plate may see not as good results....

Was just watching the Mike Martin Show (Florida State) and they were showing the videotape facilities at Howser stadium that they use to tape hitters and pitchers...they can find your achilles heel...
Last edited by piaa_ump
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
because if high school pitchers are having that much success against them their senior or junior years, how can they be ready to go play at a major D1.

That is a good question and a situation that my son experienced. First I think most good hitters feel that they are responsible for making the out. They always think they are better than the pitcher. I think many hitters are guilty of trying to do too much during their senior year of high school. Their plate discipline erodes and they try to “make” things happen and they fall victim to the increased pressure from within. Once they arrive at the D-1 level their approach changes. Suddenly they become focused on putting the ball in play and they realize they are having success. Could they be going back to?...“SEE THE BALL HIT THE BALL”.
B Benchwarmer100+ posts
I just got off of the field with my son. He insisted on going to the field and having me pitch to him today. He had a rough day yesterday, but has had a wonderful year so far even though it is early.

He was hitting just fine at the field and I couldn't notice anything that needed correcting. After about an hour he said he was done and had it figured out. On the way home I asked him what he worked out. His reply "I just have to stop thinking about hitting and go out and hit". I couldn't have said it better myself.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Look Fla State or Stanford dont recruit a kid off of his HS stats. We have alot of kids that hit for a higher avg as a soph or jr over his sr year. Fungo is right that these kids are trying too hard to live up to their rep or they feel that they are expected to hit a bomb everytime up. They sometimes press at the plate and try to make something out of nothing. Over half of your games in a HS season are conf games. By the time a kid is a jr or sr they know who the kids are that can hurt them. These kids are not going to get anything sweet usually unless it is a mistake. They have to be patient and not press. Sometimes that is very hard for a young kid to do especially one that is used to having a ton of success. I dont have to see a kids stats to know wether or not he can hit. Believe it or not I can usually tell by the way he walks up to the box. There are a ton of kids that hit 450 in HS that will never be able to hit college pitching. They feast on the avg hs pitching and get blown away by the upper level guys they see. If a college coach recruits on stats he wont be the coach for long.
BlueDogBlueDog1,000+ posts
Very few hitters truly realize the importance of thinking about absolutely nothing in the box......Once you're in there, ignore the world and clear your mind.....It's something that needs to be worked on, just like swing technique....To be able to do it properly is a very important part of being a good hitter.....

You must rely on muscle memory once it's showtime.......There is no time for thinking.......It doesn't work, anyway.....If you think in the box, you're making a big mistake....
S Sorpe10+ posts
Remember to do the math. In Illinois, teams play around a 30 game season. That means a maximum of 150 at-bats per season and even that number is high because you won't have that many official at-bats with walks, hit by pitch, etc. If you have 100 official at-bats, getting two less hits lowers your batting average by 20 points. Yet two hits, over the course of a high school season, are insignificant. It's the same in the Majors where nearly every year, some career .275 hitter is flirting with .400 well into May: not enough at-bats to be statistically significant.

College coaches recognize this as well as the next guy. That's why they don't put a lot of emphasis on the stats nor should they.

Here's another easy example: the field where my son plays is 324 down the line, 375 to center. Within 50 miles are fields where it's 250 down the lines and only about 275 in center. Such disparity in field size renders total number of homeruns meaningless. Hence, college coaches look beyond the stats (although not always successfully but then that's the subject of another post).
A AParent1,000+ posts
The most obvious answers are listed above

1-Coaches have learned his strengths and weaknesses - if he has trouble with a curve low and inside - he's going to see a lot more of those pitches than he did in the past.

2-kid is eager and trying too hard to perform up to expectations and swinging when he should wait.

3- kid is frustrated thus swinging at bad pitches because he simply isn't getting any good pitches to hit and has not developed the discipline to be walked routinely.

a few off the wall other possibilities I want to add just to spice it up a bit

4-Conference had a down year on pitching in his soph year and improved over the next few years.

5- kid has a serous case of senioritus.

6-Kid has been moved in the line up and has a new "role" to play in the game

Keep in mind, even if the adjustment period is only a few weeks it could shave quite a bit off the final batting avergage. If the BA dropped some, and did not totally plummet it could mean the beginning of the year he had quite an adjustment, but made the adjustment as the season progressed.

If so, I think the coach would be pleased, not frightened off, after all, he is going to want to know the kid CAN readjust his hitting..
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
TR:
Don't you think there are very good HS hitters in soph or junior years who, the next season, get pitched around?

I've seen that happen. As Sorpe pointed out, you only have to decrease number of hits by a few in order to make a significant difference in batting average when there are a little over 100 at bats total.

On base percentage should climb every year, however.
CADadCADad5,000+ posts
Actually smart hitters averages should go up when they're pitched around. Much less chance of striking out and you can wait for the mistakes when you know they aren't trying to get ahead of you. That's a big part of why Bonds' average has been so high in recent years. The fear he's induced in teams with the help of the 'roids has also resulted in the higher batting average. 'Roids or not, he's a smart hitter.

On the other hand I can think of a pretty good HS hitter whose average, while still high, dropped a fair amount between his junior and senior year. Delmon Young. I also know of a pretty good college hitter whose average dropped quite a bit between his freshman and sophmore seasons although he has brought it up as a junior relative to his sophmore season. I think he's a good hitter.

The reality is that the breaks don't always even out over a short HS season or even over a college season.
Last edited by CADad
S s2fmf10+ posts
i am gettin two vibes on this:

1) i am underestimating D1 bound players. I would like try to explain why this is. We are talking about high school pitchers. These guys are gonna be facing college pitchers in one year. I know what high school pitching is. I have seen college pitching and i have faced it at the high school level (from D1 bound pitchers) I am not even hinting i have the slightest clue what it take to be a D1 hitter or face a D1 pitcher. But i know it is a considerable step up. If you are a D1 signee, how in the world could you not improve from your junior to senior year. Now i am not talking battting average yet. I am talking as a hitter, you swing, your approach, the mental side, etc... Now lets get into breaks. First, if a D1 hitter can't make his own breaks with high school pitching, high school defense, high school fences, etc...how in the world is this kid gonna make a break at the college level. Second, say you are getting less breaks, you should still hit many more hard balls per at-bat, thus a high batting average. Simple as that.

2) nobody has answered my question yet, and this is only the tip of the iceberg on this subject. I have thought about this and many poosible scenarios and don't seem to have come to a valid conclusion.
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
s2fmf,

The kids recruited at the schools you mention (FSU, Stanford, ASU, etc) are cream of the crop talent-wise. Usually, they are the best player on their HS team. As such, most HS pitchers won't give them anything to hit. Why not let Johnny No Name beat me rather than Joe Stud?

I don't think it is ordinarily a let down related to their signing with such a solid baseball school. If anything, it is quite the opposite...they have a chance to go in the draft and are probably pressing more than normal in order to make something happen.

I am not sure what you answer you are looking for but it appears like most of the bases have been covered. Would you care to share your hypothesis?
S SBK500+ posts
All high school hitters should improve each year if for no other reason than the obvious physical ones. They would be also facing increasingly younger pitchers each year.

If a hitter is hitting around .500 for example, he should be excused if he only hit .475 the next year. It probably would not be considered a significant statistical difference.

Others have noted reasonable explanations for hitters faring worse their senior year but it should be the exception for most hitters.

s2fmf, you said you noticed some high level recruits experiencing this phenomenon, it would be interesting to see if it is a reliable predictor of future success or failure in college.
S s2fmf10+ posts
i think redbird borught up one of the most valid points that had not struck me yet and that is the upcoming draft. Pressing when you have already signed with a D1 one school does not sound like something that would hinder a great hitter, but now the draft, i could see how a hitter could press for that. I just tend to agree with the people who say that you should improve though. It is very simple logic, but i haven't been in these kids shoes and since it seems to be such a trend, i mind as well just accept it. thanks for the posts, its always good to have some discussion.
A AParent1,000+ posts
Just to play devils advocate here -

Let's say a kid hits around .400 his soph. year. He comes back his Jr. & Sr. years and finds out that while they threw him a bunch of everything his soph year they no longer throw him anything he can really get a piece of - in fact they throw him mostly the high outside curve he has trouble with.

Now, his batting average suffers slightly (down to .390). But, before he graduates he has learned to have patiience at the plate when they throw him slop AND he no longer has any trouble with the high outside curve.

In my book he has improved - his numbers simply don't reflect it. Numbers are not everything.
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
Aparent,

I agree. Also, dropping from .400 to .390 is probably only 1-2 hits over a season (40 for 100 vs. 39 for 100) and I wouldn't even consider this a drop.

Also, one thing not mentioned is that stats are relative to your level of competition. A kid playing in Alaska may not get the quality pitches thrown at him that a Virginia hitter may get. Although the AK hitter may have better stats, does that make him a better hitter than the VA kid?

Bottom line on this topic is that these kids playing for the schools mentioned are extremely talented players.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
I like to see hitters improve every year and the good ones will and do improve.

One thing that happens in college, and I know they did it with my son, is to make some guys more of a power hitter in college because the body has matured. In some cases this can affect a hitters BA but not necessarily make him less of a hitter.

REDBIRD makes a very valid point about the quality of pitching faced. Every region, every league is different. When my son graduated HS the # 1 hitter in the region hit over ,650 but came from a very small HS and a very "soft" league. The # 2 and 3 hitters in the region hit over .560. # 1 hitter was named Player of the Year and he was goping to be a high draft pick, so the papers said. Well he didnt get drafted, didnt get a college scholarship and did not even make the local Community College squad. The # 2 hitter went to Cornell and #3 went to New Mexico State and both had excellent baseball careers. A great example as to why it is not all about numbers and stats.

I also think the good hitters adapt real quickly at the college level and learn to hit pitches they never saw before, like a slider from a 90 MPH plus pitcher. My son calimed that was the biggest adjustment he had to make-- not hitter a 95 MPH fastball or the curve but hitting the slider.

How many HS kids see a slider in their HS career?

I also think the good hitters do not feel any pressure--in fact In think the good hitters thrive on pressure--that is why they are the hitters that they are.

Just a few of my thoughts

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