What "message" is USA BASEBALL sending?

Heck, I hope that Roger Clemens joins him. It's about time we get a "dream team" in baseball.

OPP,
Not sure if it's a legit Hot Stove topic, but I'll chime in.

Bond wants to get his credibility back. He needs to test the waters to see what he can do without steroids to make a comeback. And they will test him, so he can use the "see I am clean" story.
Putting him on the team is more disgraceful than if the Giants ALLOW him to come back.

I have always told my kids, you can be found guilty by association. He should never be allowed to play the game again, on any field, let alone be considered for the HOF.

I don't think Bonds can improve his public persona.....anymore than he can hit a lot of homeruns without some "help". As they say......his own worst enemy.......

You know, its sad that steroids have tainted his career. Yes, he's not a nice guy, but I recall a story that a friend told me about when he was with the Pirates and "small". My buddy was playing for the Phillies, and Bonds hit an upper, upper deck home run that nobody had ever seen before at Veteran's Stadium. He did have some amazing ability even before he met Conte/Anderson. It'll be interesting to see how history treats him. But, I'd still like to see Clemens join him, maybe we can get Maddux too.

Personally I hope he has another record breaking season ahead of him.

Bonds should play, so should Clemens as should many others

I see no message at all in this.I just think he would rather be playing "meaningful" games rather than be in spring training

I think Hank Aaron said it "unless you can prove that Bonds was taking drugs you can't smear him just becausee you don't like him...that's not right".

That from the man who stands to lose his record to a player that everyone likes to spit on.

Bonds has always had outstnding hitting ability...when at Serra High School in San Mateo, California he use to hit HR's that cleared the fence at a local ballpark would cross a four lane boulevard and hit the wall of the Bank Of America building across the street from the ballpark...probably 425 to 450 feet.

Bonds has perfected the shortest hitting stroke I have seen 10 - 12 inches from shoulder to contact. It's all in how fast he can trun his hips, and I haven't seen anybody better. Pujols of St.Louis is slow in comparison.

Truly a gifted athlete..aside from the accusations.

IF he was using, and I don't know for a fact that he was, it would seem to me that his knee problem might have had something to do with why, since steroids does provide healing of injury. But if he had the knee injury with his money, I just don't understand why he wouldn't have gotten the juice legally? Go figure.

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RR...

quote:

Truly a gifted athlete..aside from the accusations.

Would agree with you some. While I have, for a lot of reasons come to conclusion that he has juiced...

While I have been disappointed with the way he has handled the fans, the media, his teammates, his organization...


While I am very cynical about his reasons for playing in this event...I have to admire the man's craft.

After watching baseball for 50 years and Bonds regularly for the last 10...

Nobody I've seen has the hands he does - juiced or not.

Nobody I have seen has a more efficent stroke, juiced or not.

Nobody "squares" the ball like he does. Juiced or not.

And I havent heard this mentioned much...but Nobody I have every seen "owns" the strike zone, and reads the pitches as he does. Nobody even comes close. The guy has taken strike Zone management and simply blown that concept off the charts the same way Babe Ruth did the Home run in the 20's. Juiced or not.

The things that he does that are NOT directly steroid related but more related to the craft of hitting are pretty special.
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Sorry....but I'm not on the pro-Bonds side.....he has/had a gift at bat.....no doubt about it....but.....I believe he has had more help, from outside sources.... than entitled to...and I look back on his "press conferences" the last couple of years....always pointing the finger elsewhere.....the one with his son by his side.....please.....

Maybe some can look beyond the issue of steroids and applaud a player for their natural gifts....I can't. It's cheating.....it does not belong in the game, and when a player makes a conscious decision to use.....then there will be consequences. Isn't this what we teach our kids? Actions....consequences? Or should we say son....you have great hands.....so we'll overlook a little juice consumption....you've got a special talent.....you are entitled to cheat..you deserve an "edge".....

And.....Ramrod.....birds of a feather.....they do flock together.....another thing we teach our kids...pick your friends/acquaintances carefully.....unless they have quick hands?

I'm pretty sure that it has been proven that Bonds tool steroids/

Pretty transparent attempt at reputation rehab, but all the Saints in heaven couldn't resurrect his reputation. A supremely talented player with an incredibly dense personality issue, that wasn't satisfied to get by playing only with what the good Lord gave him, considerable as his gifts were, so he pays the price in carrying a permanent taint. Nobody's fault but his own. No sympathy here. He 'll join Palmeiro, Canseco, and Maguire on the "All Time Juiced Team".

.

AR....

Nice post, agree with all...finger pointer, most likley a cheater, doesn't deserve that edge, not a good teammate far as we can tell from our vanatge point, wouldn't want my kids to hang out with him, wouldn't want to hang out with him myself, and certainly not going to use the guy as role model...

but can separate one part from another.

As far as the messages go. This is a very complex one. One that is best discussed with a son at length, and in depth, and should be. Because your right, from the outside the moral to this story is exactly what we do not want to teach. Perfect example of the type of messages given when you let the media parent your kids.

i really don't care for barry bonds.and more than likely, well he probably did take steroids. i know the message it sends to kids, not to mention the health problems involved. but just taking steroids doesn't make you bigger or stronger. it takes tons and tons of work. yes you'll get bigger and stronger than the guy not taking them but your not going to see or react to the ball any better than the guy not taking them.you still have to hit the heat. not that easy for anyone. now before everybody goes nuts on me. i'm just looking at the whole picture.i don't like the fact that its been used to break records that guys who just worked hard set. with no special trainers or juice etc.different thoughts but cheatins cheatin.

AZRed great post. Does Bonds have tremendous talent? Yes. Is he one of the greatest hitters of all time? Yes. But the problem I have with it is we will never really know if he would have achieved the power numbers without the use of outside sources. Or did he or does he use? Maybe he did , he probaly did , but we just dont know for sure. At least right now. Just the fact that there is that doubt makes me want to just write him off when I discuss terrific players. Did Hank? Is there any doubt that he did not. Hard for me to praise someone or even discuss them in the same breath with the other greats of the game that we are sure were (natural) and did not cheat. JMO

Wasn't it Jeff Kent who asked how we could know that older era players didn't also take things to help them? What about players who've had their careers affected by greenies? We're getting off subject, which is what message, if any, does USA Baseball send by having Bonds on the team, and of course this happens every time he is discussed nowadays.

While I think Bonds is a jerk, and not someone I'd want any of my kids to emulate, he is and always has been one of the most feared hitters in the game. Perhaps we should have the MLB players themselves vote for the team to represent the USA and see who they'd choose as the best to represent them. THAT would be interesting. I think we're all pretty confident that they would pick Bonds.

By the way...Bonds also said that he wanted to lose 40#'s this off season (according to ESPN) to help his knees.

Of course it has nothing to do with any other reason to lose weight.

For the critics who say "you can't prove he took steroids OR other performance enhancing drugs" so you can't critize him...I think they are wrong. This isn't a court of law look at the man, just like Sosa, Giambi, Mac.

He is a cheater. Has he accomplished some unbelievable stats and does he have a god given talent and work hard at his craft absolutely. But please don't say well you can't prove it OR my favorite is "well it wasn't aginst the rules" (it's only against the laws of the land that should be enough).

So as we watch kids poison themselves trying to emulate these cheaters we don't need Bonds doing a PR tour.

Novice Dad

Bonds has not been "proven" guilty--it is all technically still words and supposition

Symantics should be put aside whenever possible. In this topic, Bonds admitted using steroids to a federal grand jury. Here is some text from The Baltimore Sun:

"One day after shaking the baseball industry with Jason Giambi's admission in grand jury testimony that he knowingly injected steroids, the Chronicle revealed the Bonds admission, which led commissioner Bud Selig to make yet another call for the players' union to accept stiffer drug testing.

The newspaper said Bonds testified that he used a clear substance and a cream that were given to him by his personal trainer, Greg Anderson, who has been indicted in the federal Bay Area Laboratories Co-Operative [BALCO] investigation.

Bonds told the grand jury he thought the clear substance was the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and thought the cream was a rubbing balm for arthritis. In fact, they were synthetic steroids known as "the clear" and "the cream," which have been at the center of the BALCO scandal.

Whether you believe that Bonds knew he was taking steroids or not, the drugs were admittedly - by him - in his body.

The issue isn't whether or not Bonds is guilty or innocent ... it's on his selection by USA Baseball.

USA Baseball is selecting a team to represent what is supposedly the best about our country and the sport that we all love. Putting Bonds on the team does send a message to the rest of the world ... and that message is that "we want to beat in your brains".

Personally, I don't care one bit for the message that USA Baseball is sending. They are saying the "end justifies the means".

If he is on the squad, I won't watch the games.

The thought of him breaking Ruth's and eventually Aaron's HR totals sickens me because he is cheating. Hank Aaron was 185 lbs. dripping wet and hit the ball the way he did because fo talent and technique. Let Bonds play for the USA and maybe he will tweak something and not be availbale to the Giants for the regular season...I don't want him to make a run at those guys...

Baseballdad1228....thanks for the reminder.....I'd forgotten that along the way Bonds did acknowledge "minor" usage....but poor Barry....once again.....it wasn't his fault....only this time....he didn't blame the press, or the fans....no, it was the trainer, Anderson.....he got Barry to use steroids, without Barry's knowledge.

Does anyone else, besides me, feel that Barry thinks we are all stupid? Or......maybe it's the other way around....?? There will always be some people who will look beyond the steroid use.....but think for the majority of fans....his participation in USA will not do anything to improve his image.....he's "looked" (I mean look at those photos!) too quility for too long.....IMHO

If Barry wasn't involved in the steroid stories, wasn't hurt all last year, and didn't constantly put "I" before team, he would not even consider USA baseball. He needs to rejuvinate his status with the fan and what better way to do it than associate himself with patriotism.

I can now see 2 sets of rules for that team, Barry's and the teams. I find the whole thing self serving.

For those folks who don't read newspapers or peruse other media Bond's has admitted using steroids. Again, Bond's has admitted using steroids!! He simply lied about how they got into his body.
Everyone else involved in any way with the Balco situation knew exactly what the "cream" and the "clear" were - except Barry??
Maybe USA Baseball will have Clinton throw out the ceremonial first pitch to Bonds-what a great representation that would be for the rest of the world to see.

what they knew
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroids


suggest you read this , Barry Bonds is about as innocent as OJ Simpson

baseballdad...Where has it been "proven" that he took steroids? What is your source for such information. You needn't bother to look because there is no such proof.

Lots of people in the media dislike the man.

I happen to like the guy and I've followed him from his days at ASU.

By the way, folks, so many of you forget that it was not illegal in any way, shape or fashion for major leaguers to take steroids in the past 50 years or so.

Barry Bonds Used Steroids

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/8311

hihard...As if they care if you don't watch the games.

All of Central and South America and most of North America will be watching.

Enjoy women's basketball in early March.

What Bonds told BALCO grand jury
Giants star told grand jury he used clear substance, cream provided by trainer Greg Anderson but believed they were flaxseed oil and arthritis balm

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/03/BALCO.TMP

Part I: The Executive

About half way down, the page on the left you will find a time line. One of the points is this:

1997
McGwire (58 HRs) becomes second MLer (after The Babe) with consecutive 50-HR seasons.

Six months after signing new labor deal that doesn't include testing for steroids, interim commissioner Bud Selig reissues memo banning their use.

To be reissued means that it would have to be issued in the first place. Because they could not test for them does not make them legal, in the baseball world. When something is banned, you can't use it, if you use said banned substance, you are in violation of the rule, hence you are using an illegal substance.

Part I, The Dealer

1991
Commissioner Fay Vincent adds steroids to baseball's banned list in memo he sends to all teams and union.

Correct-steroids are not illegal in the United
States-IF OBTAINED BY A DOCTOR"S PRESCRIPTION.

All Bonds has to do is show the prescription and we can move on.

Or Bond's supporters can continue to say "He didn't use steroids and even if he did they weren't illegal."

BeenthereIL, of course it is illegal to possess a prescription drug without a prescription and has been for a long time. Why do you think McGwire was in front of congress taking the fifth amendment. That's a great message for the kids that steroids are not illegal. Just because they were major leaguers did not exempt them from the laws of the United States or the respective states.

I'd rather send unknown college players and minor leaguers than the major leaguers. Greatest moment in sports, 1980 hockey team. I haven't watched olympic basketball or hockey since they started sending pros.

This aint the Olympics and the pros are playing for their respective countries

What is with all this "PC" stuff---let the games begin

Our entire country has become so "PC" Conscious we are slipping into the abyss of ridiculousness

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
hihard...As if they care if you don't watch the games.

They care, not about me or anyone else personally .. but they care about the US market and the money they will rake in from the advertizers ... These contests aren't about baseball, they are about money.

The advertizers in the US will pay the tab. Do you think you could pay for this without the US market?

... it's the only "vote" I have ... so I'll watch college baseball instead.

Forget "PC" stuff....that's the last thing I care about.....what does political correctness have to do with illegal drug usage?

and....I don't care if it's the Olympics, American Legion or CWS.....steroids do not belong.....

What kind of a message are we sending to our kids if we imply otherwise?

TR ... being opposed to Bonds representing the US isn't being PC ....

... and it should be common sense.

HiHardHeat....add our vote...we won't be watching it either.....

All you "righteous" people are going to miss some great baseball in the real world.

HHH how is it common sense to not like Bonds--he wasnt suspended nor was he called to testify. Most dont like Bonds because of his "surly" attitude and thus despise anything he does or they think he does

If all the so-called steroid users in your minds are so guilty why do you watch MLB. The kids know all about what is around them--they are either going to or not going to use "stuff'.

If you want to be so upright and forthright how do you condone sealed gran jury document info getting leaked to the press. That dont set well with me--it certainly tells me something about those reporting the so-called info.

Bottom line-- it is a free country thus you are entitled to feel as you do.

Tr, wow.
Paragraph 1, you ridicule people who stand for doing the right thing and against lying and criminal acts.
Paragraph 2, you let Bond's off the hook based on him not getting susupended and not having to testify???
Paragraph 3, essentially, who cares what their role models do, kids are going to use the stuff if they want to. How do players using roids and why someone would watch a game they love end up in same sentence. I'd bet you watch movies and love music despite knowing many of your idols in those businesses are drug users & criminals.
4. The leaking of the sealed testimony was a criminal act indeed. The info they were leaking was relating to the criminal acts your hero Barry committed.
I'm continually amazed you are so starstruck by this guy. I'm guessing if you had a neighbor who was an arrogant ***** who was despised by those he works for,with, and around and who had continually lied, cheated, and used illegal drugs and then only admitted it when forced to you probably wouldn't be his biggest supporter. Would you allow one of your players to carry on as he does? Or would it depend on his ba. or how many hr's he hits??

Down here in Texas there is an old saying:

"If you are going to back yourself into a corner, at least bring along some dogs that still have teeth!"

OPP