Gosh darn RR...you sound just like Barry....
Amazing! Well.....not really......
Believe me...as I wrote my last post I knew that I would get lambasted, but much of the opinion I read about Bonds sounds to me like "envy".
What I call the John O. Sullivan reaction. Every Black athlete in this country has at the roots of his career the white/black controversy. Most all reporters are white and a lot of them come from the South of the Mason/Dixon line. Need I say anything more.
What I call the John O. Sullivan reaction. Every Black athlete in this country has at the roots of his career the white/black controversy. Most all reporters are white and a lot of them come from the South of the Mason/Dixon line. Need I say anything more.
RR,
As long as you are praising Barry Bonds for doing such a good job of taking care of his family you should at least have brought out what a great house he got his girlfriend with the $ he seemed to have overlooked reporting on his income taxes. He is certainly taking care of his own!
OPP
As long as you are praising Barry Bonds for doing such a good job of taking care of his family you should at least have brought out what a great house he got his girlfriend with the $ he seemed to have overlooked reporting on his income taxes. He is certainly taking care of his own!
OPP
RR - no need to say anything more. One of the more ridiculous & ignorant comments I've read anywhere. There are tons of black athletes that writers respect & truly like - because they're decent,respectful people. BB is neither.
I'd think most writers covering pro teams respect the players talent and I'm sure some envy the success/$/etc. Has no relation whatsoever to what they write.
After that (and numerous others) insane post I'll never waste another second looking at or responding to anything you write.
May the holidays bring you happiness and the Barry bobblehead doll with the ***L head.
I'd think most writers covering pro teams respect the players talent and I'm sure some envy the success/$/etc. Has no relation whatsoever to what they write.
After that (and numerous others) insane post I'll never waste another second looking at or responding to anything you write.
May the holidays bring you happiness and the Barry bobblehead doll with the ***L head.
OPP
As I understand the tax situation had to do with a financial settlement which was in dispute and needed to be settled by the court. After it was agreed to and the overall dispursement of funds to that settlement also covered the tax situation, since resolved.
As I understand the tax situation had to do with a financial settlement which was in dispute and needed to be settled by the court. After it was agreed to and the overall dispursement of funds to that settlement also covered the tax situation, since resolved.
Denis
In other words unless I write stuff that is in agreement with your thinking you won't have an opinion to offer.
My conjecture as to Barry Bonds has as much or as little legitimacy as any other here since we are all voicing our own opinions.
It's to bad that subject, no matter how controversial cannot be discussed here without posters taking personal offense.
As adults, we should be able to discuss controversial matters about baseball, without having to resort to, and reducing our input to pap.
...peace
In other words unless I write stuff that is in agreement with your thinking you won't have an opinion to offer.
My conjecture as to Barry Bonds has as much or as little legitimacy as any other here since we are all voicing our own opinions.
It's to bad that subject, no matter how controversial cannot be discussed here without posters taking personal offense.
As adults, we should be able to discuss controversial matters about baseball, without having to resort to, and reducing our input to pap.
...peace
RR...or without having to resort to c--p for that matter too.
While I respect your right to an opinion, your "John O. Sullivan" comment is utterly offensive and quite disappointing, and to a lesser degree, so is your blanket statement about reporters. I though you were a little better than that from reading your previous posts. I hope I never have to utilize your method of defending any of my favorite athletes. I would feel badly about myself if I ever did.
Baseballdad....if thought RR's posts here are questionable....you should read what he has posted in the past as PIC....
Right Ramrod? But....it's all of us....and not you....just like Barry....you, and yours, are victims.....
Whatever happened to good old fashion common sense?
Right Ramrod? But....it's all of us....and not you....just like Barry....you, and yours, are victims.....
Whatever happened to good old fashion common sense?
PiC will be PiC and be Ramrod will be Ramrod
I think the croos he has on his back is very heavy but not as heavy as the original guy-- that certain "card" always seems to appear
I think the croos he has on his back is very heavy but not as heavy as the original guy-- that certain "card" always seems to appear
Thanks anyway, but I don't need to see anymore posts from this individual. He's exposed all I need to know about him right here. Thanks, though.
I’ve taken a few months off and now I return to see not much is changed. The topic of Barry Bonds seems to bring out the worst in people. Seemingly reasonable people continue to sound absolutely silly trying to defend Bonds.
I suppose these same people will tell us that OJ is innocent because they never seen him kill anyone.
The reason many in the media don’t like him, why many fans don’t like him, why many of his team aren’t thrilled with him and why his wife couldn’t trust him is because he is a bum. It has nothing to do with his color. Bums come in all colors, this one just happens to be black.
I suppose these same people will tell us that OJ is innocent because they never seen him kill anyone.
The reason many in the media don’t like him, why many fans don’t like him, why many of his team aren’t thrilled with him and why his wife couldn’t trust him is because he is a bum. It has nothing to do with his color. Bums come in all colors, this one just happens to be black.
ramrod,
You always manage to step in a bucket of roses and come out smelling like ****.
To a certain extent I would agree with you regarding many reporters.
However, this topic has absolutely nothing to do with race!!!
Mark MacGwire was unmercifully lambasted by the media after those congressional hearings! Last time I looked at him he appeared to be white!
Ask 31 game winner Denny McLain how much he benefited from being white.
People are welcome to think whatever they want, good or bad, about Barry Bonds. Until now, I've never heard anyone on this site ever discuss the color of his skin.
Please get back to baseball where your opinions stand a chance!
You always manage to step in a bucket of roses and come out smelling like ****.
To a certain extent I would agree with you regarding many reporters.
However, this topic has absolutely nothing to do with race!!!
Mark MacGwire was unmercifully lambasted by the media after those congressional hearings! Last time I looked at him he appeared to be white!
Ask 31 game winner Denny McLain how much he benefited from being white.
People are welcome to think whatever they want, good or bad, about Barry Bonds. Until now, I've never heard anyone on this site ever discuss the color of his skin.
Please get back to baseball where your opinions stand a chance!
Has anyone on this site spent time interacting with Barry Bonds? Have you ever met him and conversed for any length of time, spent hours, days, months, or more in his company? Is anyone a close friend or family member?
Most all have developed opinion based on Media presentation. Society is offered a second by second diet of electronic information which always carries a purpose. The winners of war always depict the accomplishment different than the losers, but whose account is correct? Only those involved have any real chance at truth relating the experience, yet still will differ in opinion. Those involved carry more measured credibilty than the person who conveys what he saw on a History Channel program.
Remove all the information you have used to formulate an opinion of Barry Bonds that did not come from personal interaction with him and see if you are able to offer an opinion about who he is? Television, radio, newspaper, magazine, and the internet offerings all come with purpose, but not neccesarily truth.
Just for thought?
Most all have developed opinion based on Media presentation. Society is offered a second by second diet of electronic information which always carries a purpose. The winners of war always depict the accomplishment different than the losers, but whose account is correct? Only those involved have any real chance at truth relating the experience, yet still will differ in opinion. Those involved carry more measured credibilty than the person who conveys what he saw on a History Channel program.
Remove all the information you have used to formulate an opinion of Barry Bonds that did not come from personal interaction with him and see if you are able to offer an opinion about who he is? Television, radio, newspaper, magazine, and the internet offerings all come with purpose, but not neccesarily truth.
Just for thought?
PCX...would it be okay if I rely on his interviews? You know.....where he spoke directly to the camera? Also his direct quotes? Would that be okay?
I don't need the media to do my thinking for me....and for you or anyone else to assume that is wrong....
It's the 21st century.....we don't need to meet the guy in person....nor would I want to....
I don't need the media to do my thinking for me....and for you or anyone else to assume that is wrong....
It's the 21st century.....we don't need to meet the guy in person....nor would I want to....
quote:Originally posted by PCX:
Has anyone on this site spent time interacting with Barry Bonds? Have you ever met him and conversed for any length of time, spent hours, days, months, or more in his company? Is anyone a close friend or family member?
Most all have developed opinion based on Media presentation. Society is offered a second by second diet of electronic information which always carries a purpose. The winners of war always depict the accomplishment different than the losers, but whose account is correct? Only those involved have any real chance at truth relating the experience, yet still will differ in opinion. Those involved carry more measured credibilty than the person who conveys what he saw on a History Channel program.
Remove all the information you have used to formulate an opinion of Barry Bonds that did not come from personal interaction with him and see if you are able to offer an opinion about who he is? Television, radio, newspaper, magazine, and the internet offerings all come with purpose, but not neccesarily truth.
Just for thought?
PCX,
I think you have brought up a good point. I have never met the man, had converstion with him, know anyone who is close with him.
My opinion of him is purely based on information gathered on steroid use, quite obvious by just LOOKING at him.
Has anyone seen a piture of him lately, I haven't, I'll bet he is less than half the size he was a year ago (blame it on the knee).
At any time last year, he could have come back to play, but he stayed away, why? Because of reporters picking on him? I don't think so. He turned around and USED them to make us think that is why he was not coming back. Since when has tough man BB been afraid of the press? If he had NOTHING to hide, he would have done whatever he could to prove them, and fans, wrong.
I feel the same for him as I do any other player who has cheated.
RR,
Your comment is COMPLETELY a$$inine, truly a reflection of how a smart person can be so ignorant.
I also remember something you said once. I looked it up.
Quote by RR:
"The environment that these men find at the pro level is so corroded with drug usage that it is really difficult for them to remain clean."
I am assuming that Mr. Bonds is not included among them.
Baseballdad228 said: While I respect your right to an opinion, your "John O. Sullivan" comment is utterly offensive and quite disappointing, and to a lesser degree, so is your blanket statement about reporters. I though you were a little better than that from reading your previous posts. I hope I never have to utilize your method of defending any of my favorite athletes. I would feel badly about myself if I ever did
*************************************************
I won't react to the underlying distortion of my positions, but since I thought we were speaking about Bonds it comes as no surprise that you would take offense since your post has 6 references to yourself and "0" about Bonds.
*************************************************
I won't react to the underlying distortion of my positions, but since I thought we were speaking about Bonds it comes as no surprise that you would take offense since your post has 6 references to yourself and "0" about Bonds.
Arizonared said:
Baseballdad....if thought RR's posts here are questionable....you should read what he has posted in the past as PIC....
Right Ramrod? But....it's all of us....and not you....just like Barry....you, and yours, are victims.....
Whatever happened to good old fashion common sense?
***********************************************
The continual referencing to other avatar names is meaningless to me. It's nothing more than an expression of contempt. The question is from what? I think I know and I will let you deal with it.
No matter how hard you try to make me the issue it doesn't cut through the fact the its purpose is to avoid having to deal with the truth about how abysmally baseball fans and sportswiters have been to Barry Bonds...it is not jsutified.
If you go through the treads here there is a similarity in comments about black and other minority players with a usual negative tone, or a "but" attached to them even if there is an intent to be complementary.
The question is, do minority players start from a negative image to begin with that they have to overcome, while their counterparts have no such impediment to deal with? That's one of the issues that I think really is at the heart of how young black ballplayers and hispanic players seem to be absent from the college rosters at the CWS.
That's what you don't want to deal with.
Baseballdad....if thought RR's posts here are questionable....you should read what he has posted in the past as PIC....
Right Ramrod? But....it's all of us....and not you....just like Barry....you, and yours, are victims.....
Whatever happened to good old fashion common sense?
***********************************************
The continual referencing to other avatar names is meaningless to me. It's nothing more than an expression of contempt. The question is from what? I think I know and I will let you deal with it.
No matter how hard you try to make me the issue it doesn't cut through the fact the its purpose is to avoid having to deal with the truth about how abysmally baseball fans and sportswiters have been to Barry Bonds...it is not jsutified.
If you go through the treads here there is a similarity in comments about black and other minority players with a usual negative tone, or a "but" attached to them even if there is an intent to be complementary.
The question is, do minority players start from a negative image to begin with that they have to overcome, while their counterparts have no such impediment to deal with? That's one of the issues that I think really is at the heart of how young black ballplayers and hispanic players seem to be absent from the college rosters at the CWS.
That's what you don't want to deal with.
quote:PiC will be PiC and be Ramrod will be Ramrod
I think the croos he has on his back is very heavy but not as heavy as the original guy-- that certain "card" always seems to appear
TRhit
************************************************
I think you were trying to reference your "cross" colloquialism. It's not a "card" it is a "reality" that is a component that baseball has been trying to deal with for a long time and no one will ever convince me that a part of what is going on with Bonds isn't rooted in it.
I give baseball credit for what they are trying to do, but that is not what we were talking about...we were talking about Bonds and I have taken on the role to defend him in this trial of opinion.
SBK said:
I’ve taken a few months off and now I return to see not much is changed. The topic of Barry Bonds seems to bring out the worst in people. Seemingly reasonable people continue to sound absolutely silly trying to defend Bonds.
I suppose these same people will tell us that OJ is innocent because they never seen him kill anyone.
The reason many in the media don’t like him, why many fans don’t like him, why many of his team aren’t thrilled with him and why his wife couldn’t trust him is because he is a bum. It has nothing to do with his color. Bums come in all colors, this one just happens to be black.
************************************************
I would say that your post was meant to be very provocative. I will ignore it's superficial meaning and deal with what I think you are trying to say.
You lump fans opinions of Bonds in with sportswriters and assume that they are both correct. However I don't agree that it has nothing to do with his color.
The truth is that he is a proud Black man and his personality has been formed by the crucible that made him. I think that he became very cynical at a very young age as he watched what his father had to endure moving up the leagues in order to get to play in the Majors. It's a perspective that not all kids get to see. It can be very corrosive in forming the perpectives of what people are capable of to attain wealth and position.
But the way you express your contempt is much to deep for someone you don't even know. I suspect that there is more in what you express then meets the eye.
I’ve taken a few months off and now I return to see not much is changed. The topic of Barry Bonds seems to bring out the worst in people. Seemingly reasonable people continue to sound absolutely silly trying to defend Bonds.
I suppose these same people will tell us that OJ is innocent because they never seen him kill anyone.
The reason many in the media don’t like him, why many fans don’t like him, why many of his team aren’t thrilled with him and why his wife couldn’t trust him is because he is a bum. It has nothing to do with his color. Bums come in all colors, this one just happens to be black.
************************************************
I would say that your post was meant to be very provocative. I will ignore it's superficial meaning and deal with what I think you are trying to say.
You lump fans opinions of Bonds in with sportswriters and assume that they are both correct. However I don't agree that it has nothing to do with his color.
The truth is that he is a proud Black man and his personality has been formed by the crucible that made him. I think that he became very cynical at a very young age as he watched what his father had to endure moving up the leagues in order to get to play in the Majors. It's a perspective that not all kids get to see. It can be very corrosive in forming the perpectives of what people are capable of to attain wealth and position.
But the way you express your contempt is much to deep for someone you don't even know. I suspect that there is more in what you express then meets the eye.
PG Staff said:
ramrod,
You always manage to step in a bucket of roses and come out smelling like ****.
To a certain extent I would agree with you regarding many reporters.
However, this topic has absolutely nothing to do with race!!!
Mark MacGwire was unmercifully lambasted by the media after those congressional hearings! Last time I looked at him he appeared to be white!
Ask 31 game winner Denny McLain how much he benefited from being white.
People are welcome to think whatever they want, good or bad, about Barry Bonds. Until now, I've never heard anyone on this site ever discuss the color of his skin.
Please get back to baseball where your opinions stand a chance!
************************************************
With all due respect your post is somewhat condescending...that aside I am disappointed in your reaction. You of all people here should be able to see how a player of Barry Bonds stature could be reviled as part of an attempt to prevent him from achieving his goal to be the all time HR leader.
It is naive to assume that there are not forces in this country to retard that from happening. Why, because in sportswriters minds-eye their are more deserving players for that record. But who are they to decide that?
Even the game is in a heat to prevent Bonds from completing his trek when you see him being IW'd even in situations where it goes against BB protocol.
Quite frankly, I think Bud Selig is a failure as the Commissioner of Baseball.
Sugar coating the picture doesn't solve anything...and as a leader of those in this sport with high hopes of playing in the Majors, one can see how detrimental to baseball it is that Barry Bonds, who has played in the majors for so long, is now treated with such disdain.
Don't think that young men aren't watching what is going on. Can you imagine what they might be thinking? If it can be done to Barry Bonds who has strived so hard to perfect his game and is one of the best in the majors...what does it mean for them. Does it mean it could happen to them...just because sportwriter's have another player they think is their favorite, and he should get the award?
What can a young player think after he's busted his tail for so long to reach a pinnacle of his skills only to have the game and sportwriters reject everything he's ever done and give the credit and accolades to someone less deserving just because they collectively like another player? Then form a conspiracy to destroy him also, while continually writing desparaging articles about him?
By taking a position that is de facto in support of those who find it a "blood" sport to denigrate a Bonds who has contributed so much to this game is shameful.
The abject character assassination that continues to go on here against Bonds is rooted in an extreme ugly element that has no place in baseball...but none-the-less it continues.
I know we can all do better...
ramrod,
You always manage to step in a bucket of roses and come out smelling like ****.
To a certain extent I would agree with you regarding many reporters.
However, this topic has absolutely nothing to do with race!!!
Mark MacGwire was unmercifully lambasted by the media after those congressional hearings! Last time I looked at him he appeared to be white!
Ask 31 game winner Denny McLain how much he benefited from being white.
People are welcome to think whatever they want, good or bad, about Barry Bonds. Until now, I've never heard anyone on this site ever discuss the color of his skin.
Please get back to baseball where your opinions stand a chance!
************************************************
With all due respect your post is somewhat condescending...that aside I am disappointed in your reaction. You of all people here should be able to see how a player of Barry Bonds stature could be reviled as part of an attempt to prevent him from achieving his goal to be the all time HR leader.
It is naive to assume that there are not forces in this country to retard that from happening. Why, because in sportswriters minds-eye their are more deserving players for that record. But who are they to decide that?
Even the game is in a heat to prevent Bonds from completing his trek when you see him being IW'd even in situations where it goes against BB protocol.
Quite frankly, I think Bud Selig is a failure as the Commissioner of Baseball.
Sugar coating the picture doesn't solve anything...and as a leader of those in this sport with high hopes of playing in the Majors, one can see how detrimental to baseball it is that Barry Bonds, who has played in the majors for so long, is now treated with such disdain.
Don't think that young men aren't watching what is going on. Can you imagine what they might be thinking? If it can be done to Barry Bonds who has strived so hard to perfect his game and is one of the best in the majors...what does it mean for them. Does it mean it could happen to them...just because sportwriter's have another player they think is their favorite, and he should get the award?
What can a young player think after he's busted his tail for so long to reach a pinnacle of his skills only to have the game and sportwriters reject everything he's ever done and give the credit and accolades to someone less deserving just because they collectively like another player? Then form a conspiracy to destroy him also, while continually writing desparaging articles about him?
By taking a position that is de facto in support of those who find it a "blood" sport to denigrate a Bonds who has contributed so much to this game is shameful.
The abject character assassination that continues to go on here against Bonds is rooted in an extreme ugly element that has no place in baseball...but none-the-less it continues.
I know we can all do better...
TPM said:
RR,
Your comment is COMPLETELY a$$inine, truly a reflection of how a smart person can be so ignorant.
I also remember something you said once. I looked it up.
Quote by RR:
"The environment that these men find at the pro level is so corroded with drug usage that it is really difficult for them to remain clean."
I am assuming that Mr. Bonds is not included among them.
***********************************************
Once again instead of dealing with the issues I raise in my opinions in a well thought out response that has shown some contemplative reasoning...you show that maintaining status quo in the opinion of Bonds is an exercise in solidarity with sportswriter you don't know and suspect have never spoken to.
Ignorance is in being PC...at least PCX is willing to consider that sportswriters and others might have an agenda...which to my way of thinking shows intelligence.
RR,
Your comment is COMPLETELY a$$inine, truly a reflection of how a smart person can be so ignorant.
I also remember something you said once. I looked it up.
Quote by RR:
"The environment that these men find at the pro level is so corroded with drug usage that it is really difficult for them to remain clean."
I am assuming that Mr. Bonds is not included among them.
***********************************************
Once again instead of dealing with the issues I raise in my opinions in a well thought out response that has shown some contemplative reasoning...you show that maintaining status quo in the opinion of Bonds is an exercise in solidarity with sportswriter you don't know and suspect have never spoken to.
Ignorance is in being PC...at least PCX is willing to consider that sportswriters and others might have an agenda...which to my way of thinking shows intelligence.
PCX
Thanks for your post that shows that you have some reasonableness to your postions here.
Thanks for your post that shows that you have some reasonableness to your postions here.
Ramrod,
First of all, my comments have nothing to do with steroids or Barry Bonds ability or even how he is perceived by others. Have never offered my opinion on the subject. My comments were in reference to the following post you made.
you went on to post later
Ramrod,
I have no problem with you or anyone else who wants to stand up and be in Barry Bonds corner. Everyone understands his amazing ability.
Who on this site is “envious” of Barry Bonds? There can be many reasons why someone is liked or disliked. Envy is just one of those reasons and I don’t see how it fits here.
Regarding what you call the John O. Sullivan reaction and reporters: Do you mean that reporters want to prevent Barry Bonds who is black from breaking Henry Aaron’s home run record?
Once again what does this situation have to do with race? Now if you want to talk about someone who had to deal with racial issues… let’s talk about Hank Aaron as he was breaking Babe Ruth’s record!
If you want to talk about someone who has suffered the most from reporters exposing certain things… let’s talk about Pete Rose!
It’s glaringly obvious there aren’t very many racists on this site. The opinions expressed here are based on something other than the color of Barry Bonds skin. Just as people on here went after MacGwire and Palmeiro. It had nothing to do with the color of their skin either.
First of all, my comments have nothing to do with steroids or Barry Bonds ability or even how he is perceived by others. Have never offered my opinion on the subject. My comments were in reference to the following post you made.
quote:Believe me...as I wrote my last post I knew that I would get lambasted, but much of the opinion I read about Bonds sounds to me like "envy".
What I call the John O. Sullivan reaction. Every Black athlete in this country has at the roots of his career the white/black controversy. Most all reporters are white and a lot of them come from the South of the Mason/Dixon line. Need I say anything more.
you went on to post later
quote:With all due respect your post is somewhat condescending...that aside I am disappointed in your reaction. You of all people here should be able to see how a player of Barry Bonds stature could be reviled as part of an attempt to prevent him from achieving his goal to be the all time HR leader.
It is naive to assume that there are not forces in this country to retard that from happening. Why, because in sportswriters minds-eye their are more deserving players for that record. But who are they to decide that?
Ramrod,
I have no problem with you or anyone else who wants to stand up and be in Barry Bonds corner. Everyone understands his amazing ability.
Who on this site is “envious” of Barry Bonds? There can be many reasons why someone is liked or disliked. Envy is just one of those reasons and I don’t see how it fits here.
Regarding what you call the John O. Sullivan reaction and reporters: Do you mean that reporters want to prevent Barry Bonds who is black from breaking Henry Aaron’s home run record?
Once again what does this situation have to do with race? Now if you want to talk about someone who had to deal with racial issues… let’s talk about Hank Aaron as he was breaking Babe Ruth’s record!
If you want to talk about someone who has suffered the most from reporters exposing certain things… let’s talk about Pete Rose!
It’s glaringly obvious there aren’t very many racists on this site. The opinions expressed here are based on something other than the color of Barry Bonds skin. Just as people on here went after MacGwire and Palmeiro. It had nothing to do with the color of their skin either.
quote:Sugar coating the picture doesn't solve anything...and as a leader of those in this sport with high hopes of playing in the Majors, one can see how detrimental to baseball it is that Barry Bonds, who has played in the majors for so long, is now treated with such disdain.
Don't think that young men aren't watching what is going on. Can you imagine what they might be thinking? If it can be done to Barry Bonds who has strived so hard to perfect his game and is one of the best in the majors...what does it mean for them. Does it mean it could happen to them...just because sportwriter's have another player they think is their favorite, and he should get the award?
What can a young player think after he's busted his tail for so long to reach a pinnacle of his skills only to have the game and sportwriters reject everything he's ever done and give the credit and accolades to someone less deserving just because they collectively like another player? Then form a conspiracy to destroy him also, while continually writing desparaging articles about him?
By taking a position that is de facto in support of those who find it a "blood" sport to denigrate a Bonds who has contributed so much to this game is shameful.
The abject character assassination that continues to go on here against Bonds is rooted in an extreme ugly element that has no place in baseball...but none-the-less it continues.
I know we can all do better...
Ramrod,
Some on here feel that Bonds is possibly involved in something other than chasing the home run record.
Some feel that he is the one who is sending the harmful messages to young players.
Some here do not reject what he has accomplished, but question how it was accomplished.
I think those involved on this board are in fact mostly interested in the youth.
The young players watching Barry Bonds should be thinking... I want to be that good and make the hundreds of millions dollars that Barry has. Then they need to think about how they're going to go about doing it! That is what everyone here is so concerned about!!!!!
You have a way of turning everything around. Now everyone who is concerned with the serious issue of steroids has become a character assasin or a racist.
Bonds is the good guy and all the sportswriters and fans are the bad guys. Well maybe history will show that you are correct. Or maybe not!
The one absolute that everyone agrees on... Bonds is a great player!
RAMROD (PiC etal)
I am a Bonds supporter, this is known but it has nothing do with race --it has to do with his talent and ability to hit a baseball.
You keeping going to the race issue and it is way off base--again you want to carry that cross on your back-- forget it pal, your act is getting old and very trite.
I am a Bonds supporter, this is known but it has nothing do with race --it has to do with his talent and ability to hit a baseball.
You keeping going to the race issue and it is way off base--again you want to carry that cross on your back-- forget it pal, your act is getting old and very trite.
Pick any 5 college baseball players and ask if they think Bonds used 'roids. You'll get 100% agreement that they think he has. Anybody involved in higher levels of any sport know what "juiced" bodies seem to look like, or at least they think they know anyway, and the "look" is just like Bonds. No way is he a positive influence on young players. Not now. Not ever. JMHO
Barry Bonds grew up a spoiled brat.
He remains a spoiled brat.
For a spoiled brat to use the race card as often as he has over the years is deserving of ridicule and shame. He is unlike 99% of his African American brothers in the way he has been treated since day 1.
A silver spoon dude like Barry needs to shut up, put away the needle and make his next quote the real truth about the cheating he has done over the last several years.
Someone should compile a book of quotes from this spoiled brat so that any supporters could see the light and....laugh at "poor Barry's" travails!
He remains a spoiled brat.
For a spoiled brat to use the race card as often as he has over the years is deserving of ridicule and shame. He is unlike 99% of his African American brothers in the way he has been treated since day 1.
A silver spoon dude like Barry needs to shut up, put away the needle and make his next quote the real truth about the cheating he has done over the last several years.
Someone should compile a book of quotes from this spoiled brat so that any supporters could see the light and....laugh at "poor Barry's" travails!
My ealry disdain for Mr. Bonds began in the early 90's when he was with the Pirates. I you all recall he was the first guy in the MLB that wore an earing, during games, since I'm an old school guy, I didn't agree with it. I also remember that he was defiant about taking the earing out on a few occasions, when asked to from the team. Then in SF when he started wearing the big orange wristbands, with his likeness on them. To me this was the ultimate show of disrespect that one could show to the game itself.
You see, that indicated to me that he was a vanity player, although very good at the time, he put himself above the game, therefore he lost even more of my respect, as a person, BUT not as a player.
That was something for me that the sportswriters had no influence with.
And don't even get me started with the showboating after a bomb. I wish there were more pitchers like Josh Beckett and Roy Oswalt, who are not afraid to go after a guy like that, if you know what I mean!
You should have seen the smile on my face a few years ago when Beckett almost drilled him.
All of MY opinions have to do with what I've SEEN, not what I've heard from sportswriters, and they collective..... CONSPIRACY.....BWWWAAAAAAAHHAAAAAHHHAAAAA
The GRAND JURY TESTIMONY, only seeled my case against the man, and now ....the player.
Congratulations Mr. Bonds, you are officially on my SH** List!
Please take the seat between Mr. Ben Johnson Mr. Bill Romanowski, and oh yeah.... Welcome to the club!
You see, that indicated to me that he was a vanity player, although very good at the time, he put himself above the game, therefore he lost even more of my respect, as a person, BUT not as a player.
That was something for me that the sportswriters had no influence with.
And don't even get me started with the showboating after a bomb. I wish there were more pitchers like Josh Beckett and Roy Oswalt, who are not afraid to go after a guy like that, if you know what I mean!
You should have seen the smile on my face a few years ago when Beckett almost drilled him.
All of MY opinions have to do with what I've SEEN, not what I've heard from sportswriters, and they collective..... CONSPIRACY.....BWWWAAAAAAAHHAAAAAHHHAAAAA
The GRAND JURY TESTIMONY, only seeled my case against the man, and now ....the player.
Congratulations Mr. Bonds, you are officially on my SH** List!
Please take the seat between Mr. Ben Johnson Mr. Bill Romanowski, and oh yeah.... Welcome to the club!
None of us have much of a factual or personal foundation to build a valid opinion on Bonds the man. Bonds the baseball player is another story entirely.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone who has posted on this topic except to say that if you don't believe sportswriters and the media in general do not have an agenda with Bonds, or any other 'controversial' figure, you are kidding yourselves.
Their livleyhood is dependent on getting the story, period. Bonds has pretty much not given them the story since early in his Pirate days. The sports writers expected something from him that they felt was not delivered early in his carreer and Bonds chose to ignore them for the most part, which in my opinion is the only correct thing to do if you are a young athlete trying to make a carreer for yourself. Yes - there were many times when Bonds reacted/over-reacted to the press. So have many others, and usually when only half-truths and supposition is the heart of the 'reporting'. That happened a lot in Bond's carreer early on.
Sportswriting has changed a great deal since the mid-70's. If you don't believe that watch some twenty year old clips from ESPN (the 'E' stands for 'Entertainment', by the way) or whatever. Compare them to today's sports shows. Sports writing has become just that - entertainment. Very little, other than game results. statistics and highlights reflect the sport. Even the World Series, the epitomy of the game, isn't viewed by nearly the numbers that it used to be. As with most most anything these days, it is the personna that we are most interested in, and we want the personna any way we can get it. Try "Thirty Seconds" sometime.
More often than not that leaves the writers and reporters with not a whole lot to offer except opinion and a sometimes very slanted view of what they think athletes should or should not be 'giving' the general public. I liken them to any retail salesman that has one primary goal: sell, sell, sell. That's the bottom line. If the product by itself is not appealing in and of itself or is slow to leave the store, MAKE it appealing on some level. If that can't happen, find a new carreer. Do what you have to do. Enough is never enough in the sales game. Sports writing and reporting is a sales game, period. Just ask the guy at the copy desk.
Is the media "against" Bonds because of his race? I doubt it, although there is always the possibility of someone with that kind of agenda. Does the media dislike Bonds because he didn't respond in a way they wanted him to? I'd bet on that one. No story, no interview, means no news eventually, and their business is news. If you can't produce SOMETHING that is 'newsworthy', no job.
Unfortunately the public loves to watch a great success story and just can't keep their eyes off of a good tragedy either. We develope a pack mentality very easily when we can watch other people get torn down. In short, that sells.
Believe what you want to believe. But believe this: Bonds would most likely be forced out of the game if he was not good for the game or good for the media. And he IS very good for both. One way or the other, Bonds makes BASEBALL newsworthy. Be it his accomplishments on the field or the supposition that he is or was on steroids, lied or didn't lie or did or did not pay his taxes or beat his wife or helps fans hold on to the history of the greats like Mays and Aaron and Ruth. As long as he remains newsworthy, be it hitting home runs or just giving the public another reason to jump on the bandwagon that's trying to rid the game of him, he is here to stay. And it's my guess Mr. Bonds will ultimately make the call as to when he is out of the game. He is much too convicted to let anyone, including the media, run him off.
Please don't bother with some pun on 'convicted', either. They are all getting pretty old and pretty futile at this point. The court of public opinion is the last thing that will carry any weight with Mr. Bonds. After all, we are talking about him here and no doubt he will be the subject of a great many stories to come.
As far as influencing our youth one way or the other, we had all better consider two things:
First, that we have raised our kids to do the right thing and make the right choices. Second, that no matter what the level of play, there are things going on in the sport that most of us would not consider ethical, moral, legal or otherwise, and this is nothing new to the sport. Greenies in the sixtys, steroids in the nineties, cocain addiction, alcohol, ***, tax evasion and on and on and on. I once made a statement on these boards that a certain parent of a drafted player may have a better understanding of the complexities of the sport and the pitfalls that might be ahead for his son, and that he might be able to share some of that with him and with us. In my opinion, that would be just as helpful to these boards as posting when the next showcase is.
As for Bonds, I'll continue to watch him and hope that he contributes in a very big way in his remaining years in the sport. It would be nice if he was nice while he is at it, but I can't blame him if he isn't. The only thing Bonds really owes to this game is producing for his team and doing everything he can to help the Giants win a World Series. If you feel he owes you personally as a fan of the sport, don't watch him or support anyone than does. Join the masses that have already gone on "strike" against the game. Most likely you will have much better luck if you go away rather than wait for him to be gone.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone who has posted on this topic except to say that if you don't believe sportswriters and the media in general do not have an agenda with Bonds, or any other 'controversial' figure, you are kidding yourselves.
Their livleyhood is dependent on getting the story, period. Bonds has pretty much not given them the story since early in his Pirate days. The sports writers expected something from him that they felt was not delivered early in his carreer and Bonds chose to ignore them for the most part, which in my opinion is the only correct thing to do if you are a young athlete trying to make a carreer for yourself. Yes - there were many times when Bonds reacted/over-reacted to the press. So have many others, and usually when only half-truths and supposition is the heart of the 'reporting'. That happened a lot in Bond's carreer early on.
Sportswriting has changed a great deal since the mid-70's. If you don't believe that watch some twenty year old clips from ESPN (the 'E' stands for 'Entertainment', by the way) or whatever. Compare them to today's sports shows. Sports writing has become just that - entertainment. Very little, other than game results. statistics and highlights reflect the sport. Even the World Series, the epitomy of the game, isn't viewed by nearly the numbers that it used to be. As with most most anything these days, it is the personna that we are most interested in, and we want the personna any way we can get it. Try "Thirty Seconds" sometime.
More often than not that leaves the writers and reporters with not a whole lot to offer except opinion and a sometimes very slanted view of what they think athletes should or should not be 'giving' the general public. I liken them to any retail salesman that has one primary goal: sell, sell, sell. That's the bottom line. If the product by itself is not appealing in and of itself or is slow to leave the store, MAKE it appealing on some level. If that can't happen, find a new carreer. Do what you have to do. Enough is never enough in the sales game. Sports writing and reporting is a sales game, period. Just ask the guy at the copy desk.
Is the media "against" Bonds because of his race? I doubt it, although there is always the possibility of someone with that kind of agenda. Does the media dislike Bonds because he didn't respond in a way they wanted him to? I'd bet on that one. No story, no interview, means no news eventually, and their business is news. If you can't produce SOMETHING that is 'newsworthy', no job.
Unfortunately the public loves to watch a great success story and just can't keep their eyes off of a good tragedy either. We develope a pack mentality very easily when we can watch other people get torn down. In short, that sells.
Believe what you want to believe. But believe this: Bonds would most likely be forced out of the game if he was not good for the game or good for the media. And he IS very good for both. One way or the other, Bonds makes BASEBALL newsworthy. Be it his accomplishments on the field or the supposition that he is or was on steroids, lied or didn't lie or did or did not pay his taxes or beat his wife or helps fans hold on to the history of the greats like Mays and Aaron and Ruth. As long as he remains newsworthy, be it hitting home runs or just giving the public another reason to jump on the bandwagon that's trying to rid the game of him, he is here to stay. And it's my guess Mr. Bonds will ultimately make the call as to when he is out of the game. He is much too convicted to let anyone, including the media, run him off.
Please don't bother with some pun on 'convicted', either. They are all getting pretty old and pretty futile at this point. The court of public opinion is the last thing that will carry any weight with Mr. Bonds. After all, we are talking about him here and no doubt he will be the subject of a great many stories to come.
As far as influencing our youth one way or the other, we had all better consider two things:
First, that we have raised our kids to do the right thing and make the right choices. Second, that no matter what the level of play, there are things going on in the sport that most of us would not consider ethical, moral, legal or otherwise, and this is nothing new to the sport. Greenies in the sixtys, steroids in the nineties, cocain addiction, alcohol, ***, tax evasion and on and on and on. I once made a statement on these boards that a certain parent of a drafted player may have a better understanding of the complexities of the sport and the pitfalls that might be ahead for his son, and that he might be able to share some of that with him and with us. In my opinion, that would be just as helpful to these boards as posting when the next showcase is.
As for Bonds, I'll continue to watch him and hope that he contributes in a very big way in his remaining years in the sport. It would be nice if he was nice while he is at it, but I can't blame him if he isn't. The only thing Bonds really owes to this game is producing for his team and doing everything he can to help the Giants win a World Series. If you feel he owes you personally as a fan of the sport, don't watch him or support anyone than does. Join the masses that have already gone on "strike" against the game. Most likely you will have much better luck if you go away rather than wait for him to be gone.
Let's start with the fact that human performance in sports is entertainment. People will look to other competitors of their sport and seek the same advantages that they percieve them to have. (greenies, steroids, HGH etc.)
Sports are entertainment and each sport will seek advantages for their sport relative to other sports for their fan base.
Sports writing is entertainment and will seek information that will titilate the market.
In all cases entertainment means money and notoriety. If something spectacular is the result of unnatural enhancements the result will be a freak show, like a circus, which is also entertainment and means more money.
If a performance is spectacular the iconoclastic press will disect it until it looses all of it's glamour. Alternatively they may aggrandize the performer, building them up beyond reason. In either case they win.
Now the fact is that we have had this long thread dealing with Bond's and his career is enough to remove beyond doubt that he has damaged himself (otherwise why the discussion?) and IMHO he would be convicted BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT in a court of law with respect to his steroid/HGH use.
That being said, the only way to stop this speculation is to have an independent testing organization for ALL sports. TOO much of a conflict of interest between entertainment and fairness exists within the sporting community.
Rollerman
[quote]The question is, do minority players start from a negative image to begin with that they have to overcome, while their counterparts have no such impediment to deal with? That's one of the issues that I think really is at the heart of how young black ballplayers and hispanic players seem to be absent from the college rosters at the CWS.[/quote
You are kidding right? Take a look at #1 draft picks and while you are at it, the HS baseball player of the year.
Quote by RR:
"The environment that these men find at the pro level is so corroded with drug usage that it is really difficult for them to remain clean."
You are kidding right? Take a look at #1 draft picks and while you are at it, the HS baseball player of the year.
Quote by RR:
"The environment that these men find at the pro level is so corroded with drug usage that it is really difficult for them to remain clean."
I have had the great misfortune (LOL) of having met Barry Bonds on 3 seperate occasions. He is one of probably 200 pro athletes that I have had a chance to spend time with - and in some cases - become friends with.
In addition to my baseball background - I was fortunate enough to spend many years working with and for Pro basketball and Hockey teams.
I can say - without any doubt in my mind - that Barry Bonds was the most vile human being I have ever interacted with.
BUT there is something to learn from him.
Any young athlete in any sport should look hard at Barry Bonds - his words, his actions and his history.
And then make a solemn promise to himself/herself - (and promise their Moms and Dads as well) - that they will never become a Barry Bonds.
Barry can hit 10,000 home runs - but his die has been cast - and he is the one who cast it. He will forever remain the ultimate example of what an athlete - and a human being - should not be.
IMO.
In addition to my baseball background - I was fortunate enough to spend many years working with and for Pro basketball and Hockey teams.
I can say - without any doubt in my mind - that Barry Bonds was the most vile human being I have ever interacted with.
BUT there is something to learn from him.
Any young athlete in any sport should look hard at Barry Bonds - his words, his actions and his history.
And then make a solemn promise to himself/herself - (and promise their Moms and Dads as well) - that they will never become a Barry Bonds.
Barry can hit 10,000 home runs - but his die has been cast - and he is the one who cast it. He will forever remain the ultimate example of what an athlete - and a human being - should not be.
IMO.
Well, It's based on you summation, it sounds like your perfect job would be a sports writer. 
RR.....You have been getting after everyone about reaching assumptions, and innocent until proven quilty.....but then you make the hugh jump from me being against Bonds to my not tolerating minorities in sports? Get real....think TR said it well when he said you were carrying a cross....you dress your attitude up in four and five sylable words...but it still shows....and good luck with that....
Media influences? Yes....but.... there comes a point in time....where you can see and hear for yourself.....and you don't need an interpreter to tell you what's going on....
Bonds used steroids....and I didn't need the Gumbles to tell me that.....
Media influences? Yes....but.... there comes a point in time....where you can see and hear for yourself.....and you don't need an interpreter to tell you what's going on....
Bonds used steroids....and I didn't need the Gumbles to tell me that.....
PG Staff | itsinthegame | Trhit | TPM & others
The word vile carries a variety of connotations, Bad (immoral), ignoble (without honor), ugly (physical repugnancy).
but you don't mention this as one of his attributes.
The Barry Bonds Foundation
http://barrybonds.mlb.com/players/bonds_barry/about/foundation.html
There is a tread similarity here that reflects almost word for word the verbage that is written about Barry in the newspapers. It shows that in the court of public opinion the image of Barry is being shaped by a caterie of sports writers who for their own reason have decided to destroy Barry Bonds.
I hope Barry stands strong and tall against the malevolent attempts to twist his accomplishments into a referendum on steroid use in baseball. The ethnicity of the players who have been caught with supplementals in their blood strangely avoid the players that we all suspected of being juiced...some which had poor seasons last year.
There is no question that there is an agenda with a deeper intent then that which on its face looks like simple reporting on exposing Barry Bonds and his association with BALCO. But in my minds eye there is also a shaping of public opinion being shaped here about Black and minority ballplayers.
It is doing two things, first it confirms for some in our culture the tradional acceptance of their view that Blacks and Hispanic ballplayers are lesser beings...3/5th a person according to our founding fathers. And secondly, it inculcates the view from baseballs perspective that blacks are more likely to cheat, then other nationalities. This is the reason I asked the question, do minority players start out from a negative image that they have to overcome that their counterparts do not have to deal with? What is going on here helps to feed that hurdle for young Black and Hispanic ballplayers IMO.
Why is this difference in treatment so evident, because the condemnation that Mark McGuire received is no where near the vitriolic level and vehemence that ones sees when the discussion goes to that of Barry Bonds. In fact, Mark Mc Guire has essentailly gotten a pass...he admitted to using and still has his records.
Say what you want, but there is an unevenhandedness regarding perspective, observation interpretation, and resulting outcomes in presentation of the account and the treatment of the conjecture as facts being reported to justify their agenda.
Barry Bonds deserves better for all the time, effort and wonderful memories he has given to all of us.
The word vile carries a variety of connotations, Bad (immoral), ignoble (without honor), ugly (physical repugnancy).
but you don't mention this as one of his attributes.
The Barry Bonds Foundation
http://barrybonds.mlb.com/players/bonds_barry/about/foundation.html
There is a tread similarity here that reflects almost word for word the verbage that is written about Barry in the newspapers. It shows that in the court of public opinion the image of Barry is being shaped by a caterie of sports writers who for their own reason have decided to destroy Barry Bonds.
I hope Barry stands strong and tall against the malevolent attempts to twist his accomplishments into a referendum on steroid use in baseball. The ethnicity of the players who have been caught with supplementals in their blood strangely avoid the players that we all suspected of being juiced...some which had poor seasons last year.
There is no question that there is an agenda with a deeper intent then that which on its face looks like simple reporting on exposing Barry Bonds and his association with BALCO. But in my minds eye there is also a shaping of public opinion being shaped here about Black and minority ballplayers.
It is doing two things, first it confirms for some in our culture the tradional acceptance of their view that Blacks and Hispanic ballplayers are lesser beings...3/5th a person according to our founding fathers. And secondly, it inculcates the view from baseballs perspective that blacks are more likely to cheat, then other nationalities. This is the reason I asked the question, do minority players start out from a negative image that they have to overcome that their counterparts do not have to deal with? What is going on here helps to feed that hurdle for young Black and Hispanic ballplayers IMO.
Why is this difference in treatment so evident, because the condemnation that Mark McGuire received is no where near the vitriolic level and vehemence that ones sees when the discussion goes to that of Barry Bonds. In fact, Mark Mc Guire has essentailly gotten a pass...he admitted to using and still has his records.
Say what you want, but there is an unevenhandedness regarding perspective, observation interpretation, and resulting outcomes in presentation of the account and the treatment of the conjecture as facts being reported to justify their agenda.
Barry Bonds deserves better for all the time, effort and wonderful memories he has given to all of us.
RR
you are so far off the road it is not even worth discussing with you--your cross gets heavier with every post
you are so far off the road it is not even worth discussing with you--your cross gets heavier with every post
TRhit
With all due respect to you TR, I wish just once you would put some effort into a post so that people would really get some perspective of your intellectual capabilities rather than the pap you so readily offer that has at it's roots a desire to hide under the covers, and not deal with trying to improve this game for "all" children.
With all due respect to you TR, I wish just once you would put some effort into a post so that people would really get some perspective of your intellectual capabilities rather than the pap you so readily offer that has at it's roots a desire to hide under the covers, and not deal with trying to improve this game for "all" children.
RAMROD (PiC et al)
I am not here to prove my, as you term them, "intellectual capabilities", never have been never will be. I am who I am.
Perhaps you are with your 5 dollar words that you read and use randomly trying to prove something--Sir you dont impress me--there are many posters on here without your supposed "brain power acumen" but they are way more intelligent and smarter than you-- the see the real world pal-- you never will
As you were as PiC, and I am sure Julie will rap my knuckles again(two are still in a cast) ,you carry the same cross
as usual-- I have no use for your diatribe-- same MO every time--start as the nice guy then you slide into your "persecution process" I for one am tired of it--
Goodnight
I am not here to prove my, as you term them, "intellectual capabilities", never have been never will be. I am who I am.
Perhaps you are with your 5 dollar words that you read and use randomly trying to prove something--Sir you dont impress me--there are many posters on here without your supposed "brain power acumen" but they are way more intelligent and smarter than you-- the see the real world pal-- you never will
As you were as PiC, and I am sure Julie will rap my knuckles again(two are still in a cast) ,you carry the same cross
as usual-- I have no use for your diatribe-- same MO every time--start as the nice guy then you slide into your "persecution process" I for one am tired of it--
Goodnight
In the end, it doesn't really matter what we think, we are all entitled to our opinions.
What does matter is how you teach your children to make choices in the world as to what kind of people they want to be if they become serious players some day. In our house, we talked about and focused on players like Ripkin, Maddux, Clemens, Alou, Koufax and other sports people who contributed more than just being top players or breaking records. Very little was ever mentioned about Bonds and NOTHING was ever mentioned about skin color or
ethnic backgrouds.
What does matter is how you teach your children to make choices in the world as to what kind of people they want to be if they become serious players some day. In our house, we talked about and focused on players like Ripkin, Maddux, Clemens, Alou, Koufax and other sports people who contributed more than just being top players or breaking records. Very little was ever mentioned about Bonds and NOTHING was ever mentioned about skin color or
ethnic backgrouds.