What should we expect after Showball?

Is your son a 2024?

Most D3s recruit only in the summer before senior year. So if he’s not a 2024 take a deep breath.

Assuming he is a 2024 HS grad -

What level of D3 is he looking for?

Leagues like the NESCAC (Tufts, Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin), Centennial (Haverford, Swarthmore, Johns Hopkins) and the UAA (Emory, Chicago, NYU, Wash U) are tougher to penetrate than say the NEWMAC (Babson, MIT, Coast Guard, WPI) or the Liberty League (Bard, RPI, Skidmore, Vassar). Although none of them are easy.

Regardless of whether you hear back post Showball, make a list of colleges he wants to attend and get to their next recruiting camp. Any coach who contacts you post Showball will 100% want him to come to campus anyway. Many schools hold camps in Aug and early Sept. By paying $$ and showing up on campus you are letting the coaches know you have serious interest. And don’t be afraid to contact them, even if they don’t contact you. You are in sales mode.  

Also, being completely candid, if he’s serious about HA D3 and he’s not being recruited, he should try to get his SAT score above 1400, and above 1450, even 1480 if he’s targeting NESCAC.  

Also, you could consider asking his club or HS coach to contact the schools he’s most interested in, see if they have any feedback post SB.

Good luck!

@SpeedDemon posted:

Is your son a 2024?

Regardless of whether you hear back post Showball, make a list of colleges he wants to attend and get to their next recruiting camp. Any coach who contacts you post Showball will 100% want him to come to campus anyway. Many schools hold camps in Aug and early Sept. By paying $$ and showing up on campus you are letting the coaches know you have serious interest. And don’t be afraid to contact them, even if they don’t contact you. You are in sales mode.  

Yes, 2024. I thought I had read somewhere on this site that recruiting camps should only be attended if a coach has already expressed interest (otherwise it could be a wasted trip). But, you're right, we are in sales mode. And it could be that the small sample size offered by Showball wasn't adequate to make the sale?

Really appreciate you taking the time to respond.

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

Yes, 2024. I thought I had read somewhere on this site that recruiting camps should only be attended if a coach has already expressed interest (otherwise it could be a wasted trip).

Yes, that is often said, but it really applies more to D1 camps.  D3 schools don't have roster limits, so they can offer a place on the roster to as many kids as they want.  On the other hand, I would think that with catchers especially, a school wouldn't take more than one.  Going to a camp demonstrates interest; others might be able to tell you how well it works.

And, it might be a good idea to ask specifically about their catching needs before planning a camp.  It would not be at all out of line to say "I'm trying to plan recruiting camps and wouldn't want to attend if you are not interested in catchers."

Getting help with admissions is a different matter.  In the past, the calendar was that D3s were waiting until Ivies were done recruiting, which, back before the pandemic, was early August.  (maybe someone can chime in about whether that has changed).  Then D3 top candidates were Ivy (and other D1) rejects, and then everyone else after that.  There is a lot of shuffling that goes on with D3 boards in mid-August through mid-September, as players start committing for ED slots/tips.

So in a sense, your timing at Showball means that right now you are in waiting mode.  There are several more weeks of HF and SB.  My son went in early August, to one of the last ones, and he got emails of interest from right after camp until early September.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Also, you could consider asking his club or HS coach to contact the schools he’s most interested in, see if they have any feedback post SB.

Completely agree with this.  College coaches will often be more honest with a club coach than with the player.

His metrics aren’t going to wow many coaches. It doesn’t mean they won’t be interested eventually, but they are likely going to kick the tires on C’s who are less than 2.0 before a 2.25. What are the height/weight metrics?

I wouldn’t sit around and wait on them.  He should send email follow ups asking if they have any interest in him as a player for their program. Most will be very direct.

He is going to get a ton of spam camp invites. If the email has an unsubscribe link it is likely not worth attending. He can always respond to those emails with questions like “where are you in your recruiting process”, “how many catchers are you looking at”, “can we schedule a call before I register for your camp”. If they reply you can judge whether it is worth the time and money. If they don’t, well you have your answer.

As speed demon stated your son has time. He metrics and SAT scores are good but needs to improve to make him more appealing in this strong buyers market (I have witnessed and know of several players pulled from the transfer portal by HA D3, wow just wow). Once he makes a list of the HA D3s he is interested, he should look to go their camp to show off his off season gains, if they are already communicating with him, that's great. With some HA D3 the higher the baseball skills the lower the SAT/grades will be required for entry. I think someone mentioned it already, be prepared to apply ED for the school that offers and that awful awful awful tuition calculator is pretty close...it made me consider quitting my job, divorcing my wife and moving in to my parents basement for better aid. 

@2022NYC posted:

that awful awful awful tuition calculator is pretty close...it made me consider quitting my job, divorcing my wife and moving in to my parents basement for better aid.

hahahahahahha! You could go out and sell every asset and blow everything on worthless junk and you'd be eligible for aid. But having sound financial planning, sorry, no aid for you.

Keep in mind, ShowBall has several more camp dates for HC's to see players.  Next HA school camps are in August at Medford.  I'd plan to go to one of those, so it will be a second time to be in front of all the decision makers.  Also, the player candidates for Ivy's will be more identified, so the HA D3 head coaches will be able to refine their lists of higher probable players.  Meaning: kids vying for Ivy  will know where they stand and accept that HA D3 is likely where they will land.

Three weeks to refine your sons running, hitting, blocking skills to make a stronger impression.

We did this with my son.  The second HC Camp the HC's knew who he was and very friendly to him.  (doesn't mean they were all going to offer, just more engaging conversations).

Good luck

Edit:  plus three more Headfirst Camps, also at Medford (10-15m away from Showball I recall)...the HA D3 coaches have a lot of time to see a lot of players.  Ivy's likely have most of their guys identified, but are looking for another solid P or key position guy with a strong bat.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

What are the height/weight metrics?

6 feet. I think his weight is 165?

@Gov posted:

Keep in mind, ShowBall has several more camp dates for HC's to see players.  Next HA school camps are in August at Medford.  I'd plan to go to one of those, so it will be a second time to be in front of all the decision makers.

We did this with my son.  The second HC Camp the HC's knew who he was and very friendly to him.

He's already registered for one of the HF camps in early August. I was wondering about adding a second Showball (or the North-to-South camp in Richmond). But now I'm wondering if the smaller D3 school specific camps might not be the better move.

When I go to these showcases, I spend a lot of my time observing (and counting) the coaches, their eyes, and their body language. It seems like it might be just as overwhelming for the coaches as it is for the players. Many of them seem less engaged than one would think they should be. So, I'm just not sure a second Showball is the answer for my kid.

Gotta keep working hard!!!

How's his receiving/blocking? This (and his bat) are the three most important things coaches want to see. It sounds like he has decent size with room to fill out (6' can easily reach 200+ lbs with good eating habits and serious weight training).

He's got to really work on arm strength. I wouldn't say his pop time is bad because you can't expect much better with a velo of 65 mph. If he increases his arm strength the ball will get to second base much faster and his pop time will improve with no other changes to his technique!

As pointed out above, he's got lots of room to grow so coaches know he will (can) get bigger and stronger. As long as his receiving, blocking and hitting are there coaches should see that he can improve his physicality with a good college program.

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

He's already registered for one of the HF camps in early August. I was wondering about adding a second Showball (or the North-to-South camp in Richmond). But now I'm wondering if the smaller D3 school specific camps might not be the better move.

When I go to these showcases, I spend a lot of my time observing (and counting) the coaches, their eyes, and their body language. It seems like it might be just as overwhelming for the coaches as it is for the players. Many of them seem less engaged than one would think they should be. So, I'm just not sure a second Showball is the answer for my kid.

Good you're going to HF in August.  Based on my experience the HA D3's have a lot of filtering to do.  Kids are still vying for Ivy...lots of players for D3 HC's to see.  Unless a player is of strong interest to a HC, that HC is likely remaining in observation mode.  Too early to rely on a specific D3 camp.

If your son has identified several D3's he really likes, he definitely should follow up with them.  Tell those HC's he'll be at XYZ Camp, and confirm that that HC will in fact be there.  Also, that HC may be receptive to a phone call so that your son can ask specific questions on his recruiting timeline.  That could be productive...by default your son will get  a gauge of that HC's interest.  But again it's early for D3's by 30-45 days.  The HC wants to see more players before he shows his cards.  That phone call may not elicit the response your son is looking for, so could be a mixed read.  But def ok to ask about his recruiting time line.

You're at a time where it's uncomfortable to patient.  I get it. Most of us went thru the same thing.  Son graduated from NESCAC this year; now grad transfer for Masters in Finance.  This journey took a lot of work, incremental costs and inconvenient travel, and lots of calls and emails.  It was worth it! Fantastic experience to play and graduate from a good school.

Ok to PM

Best

@ABSORBER posted:

Gotta keep working hard!!!

How's his receiving/blocking? This (and his bat) are the three most important things coaches want to see. It sounds like he has decent size with room to fill out (6' can easily reach 200+ lbs with good eating habits and serious weight training).

He's got to really work on arm strength. I wouldn't say his pop time is bad because you can't expect much better with a velo of 65 mph. If he increases his arm strength the ball will get to second base much faster and his pop time will improve with no other changes to his technique!

As pointed out above, he's got lots of room to grow so coaches know he will (can) get bigger and stronger. As long as his receiving, blocking and hitting are there coaches should see that he can improve his physicality with a good college program.

This.....

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

He's already registered for one of the HF camps in early August. I was wondering about adding a second Showball (or the North-to-South camp in Richmond). But now I'm wondering if the smaller D3 school specific camps might not be the better move.

Three of the mega-showcases sounds like too many.  Since he's been to one, I think you really need a travel coach to try to suss out some opinions from the college coaches who were there, especially before going to local camps.  If your travel coach isn't willing to do this, ask him why.

This topic comes up frequently; check out:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...r-possible-d3-player

https://community.hsbaseballwe...l-d3-coaches-contact

@SpeedDemon posted:

Leagues like the NESCAC (Tufts, Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin), Centennial (Haverford, Swarthmore, Johns Hopkins) and the UAA (Emory, Chicago, NYU, Wash U) are tougher to penetrate than say the NEWMAC (Babson, MIT, Coast Guard, WPI) or the Liberty League (Bard, RPI, Skidmore, Vassar). Although none of them are easy.

NEWMAC - I think MIT is one of those tougher to penetrate for sure (I am not sure they have chits).  Babson is not easy to get into but easier than MIT. Babson is a tough school though, a tough grading school but a great business education.

@anotherparent posted:

Three of the mega-showcases sounds like too many.  Since he's been to one, I think you really need a travel coach to try to suss out some opinions from the college coaches who were there, especially before going to local camps.  If your travel coach isn't willing to do this, ask him why.

Thankfully, travel coach is supportive and has offered to reach out. Just need to confirm with my son that he's reaching out to the right schools.

@anotherparent posted:

D3 schools don't have roster limits, so they can offer a place on the roster to as many kids as they want.

The NCAA might not impose roster limits on D3, but the rosters of the HA D3s that my son has been courting are pretty small (mid 30s). So, I am hoping we can figure out the schools where the door is at least partially open to him.

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

The NCAA might not impose roster limits on D3, but the rosters of the HA D3s that my son has been courting are pretty small (mid 30s). So, I am hoping we can figure out the schools where the door is at least partially open to him.

Do you know the academic/testing requirements of those schools?

For HA D3 you’re normally  looking at min bottom 25th percentile as an athlete.

So Amherst- Midd- Wes - Hopkins 32 for Coaches to support player thru ED admissions!

Much less flexible than Ivy.

you have time, kid has scores.

focus on next 3 weeks.

improve the program your kid is on.

hire the best former MLB carver around and spend the money.

3 weeks long time

@Gov posted:

For HA D3 you’re normally  looking at min bottom 25th percentile as an athlete.

So Amherst- Midd- Wes - Hopkins 32 for Coaches to support player thru ED admissions!

Much less flexible than Ivy.

you have time, kid has scores.

focus on next 3 weeks.

improve the program your kid is on.

hire the best former MLB carver around and spend the money.

3 weeks long time

Hopkins has been a 34 ACT/1500-1510 SAT for as far back as I can find. Last year was a 1510. What I’m asking him is if he specifically knows the scores the coaches are looking for. It doesn’t make sense to target a school requiring a 1480 and you have a 1370. A coach isn’t going to spend time recruiting a kid like that.

@Gov posted:

For HA D3 you’re normally  looking at min bottom 25th percentile as an athlete.

So Amherst- Midd- Wes - Hopkins 32 for Coaches to support player thru ED admissions!

Much less flexible than Ivy.

you have time, kid has scores.

I would note that a 1340 SAT is a 29 ACT equivalent.  The GPA is excellent at 3.95 out of 4.0 but no mention of AP classes etc.   I think might all be good enough for some of the higher-end D3 academic with coaches chit, but not all, as you mention. 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

I would note that a 1340 SAT is a 29 ACT equivalent.  The GPA is excellent at 3.95 out of 4.0 but no mention of AP classes etc.   I think might all be good enough for some of the higher-end D3 academic with coaches chit, but not all, as you mention.

Yep. Some schools wanted no STEM AP scores below a 5, others a 4. Some wanted perfect math SAT’s, others no lower than a 750. The higher tier of HA you go, you will see more strict athlete policies. MIT/Caltech/JHU/Chicago(sorta) are the toughest schools. The next tier is also going to scrutinize your test scores and transcript.

Chasing a test score is incredibly difficult and stressful. I’d have options that he currently qualifies for and some that he needs to improve for. My son and I were sitting in a coach’s office mid-October when he had to tell a LHP that throws 90 he couldn’t offer him because he missed their SAT cut by 10 points. Coach said the kid was studying all summer and would have been their top recruit.

Kid’s school is an indy college prep school that doesn’t offer AP classes, which is why the highest possible GPA is 4.0.

With so many school’s being test optional and so few applicants submitting scores, I don’t think the 25th percentile rule applies anymore. Schools that still publish that data are publishing inflated scores because the 25th percentile is really the 25th percentile of the 50 percent who submitted.

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

Kid’s school is an indy college prep school that doesn’t offer AP classes, which is why the highest possible GPA is 4.0.

What is the rigor like? How does the school demonstrate the rigor? Are kids matriculating to HA schools every year?

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

With so many school’s being test optional and so few applicants submitting scores, I don’t think the 25th percentile rule applies anymore. Schools that still publish that data are publishing inflated scores because the 25th percentile is really the 25th percentile of the 50 percent who submitted.

Test optional is very misleading. If you aren’t submitting scores you better blow them away with EC’s, rigor, GPA, and being and being part of an under represented group. I found last year that the minimum scores for athletes at most HA (not Ivy) they required in the 50th+.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Hopkins has been a 34 ACT/1500-1510 SAT for as far back as I can find. Last year was a 1510. What I’m asking him is if he specifically knows the scores the coaches are looking for. It doesn’t make sense to target a school requiring a 1480 and you have a 1370. A coach isn’t going to spend time recruiting a kid like that.

Son was being recruited by Hopkins.  HC Babb told him flat out, you need a 32 for me to support you.  I want your skills, but I need that.

At the time Middlebury's 25th percentile for accepted students was a 31, five years later it's a 32.

At that time, outside of HPY, there were kids with 27-29's getting into Penn, Columbia, Brown, Dartmouth. 

This was all five years ago.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

I would note that a 1340 SAT is a 29 ACT equivalent.  The GPA is excellent at 3.95 out of 4.0 but no mention of AP classes etc.   I think might all be good enough for some of the higher-end D3 academic with coaches chit, but not all, as you mention.

Good point Gunner.

Also, it is important to know that HA D3 Coaches have less flexibility to support through admission than Ivy. So you have to ask the coach what is the min ACT / SAT to get support thru admissions.  They will tell you.

X number of AP classes, nothing less than a B on the transcript, min SAT ACT score & being the baseball player I want on my team that can contribute right away.  Coaches hope you have the academic's so admissions works with them.  The Coach wants a solid player, regardless of division level.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

What is the rigor like? How does the school demonstrate the rigor? Are kids matriculating to HA schools every year?

Why do you think we're paying all that money in tuition?

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Test optional is very misleading. If you aren’t submitting scores you better blow them away with EC’s, rigor, GPA, and being and being part of an under represented group. I found last year that the minimum scores for athletes at most HA (not Ivy) they required in the 50th+.

I think kids that come from reputable high schools are doing just fine at top tier liberal arts colleges, even without test scores. I'm not really worried about getting him in to school. I'm worried about getting him a roster spot.

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

I think kids that come from reputable high schools are doing just fine at top tier liberal arts colleges, even without test scores. I'm not really worried about getting him in to school. I'm worried about getting him a roster spot.

Most HA coaches are going to need a test score to get admission support. You can roll the dice with admissions and no support, but those odds are not in anyone’s favor.

@NotABaseballGuy posted:

I think kids that come from reputable high schools are doing just fine at top tier liberal arts colleges, even without test scores. I'm not really worried about getting him in to school. I'm worried about getting him a roster spot.

You're correct. However, at least find out the min number of AP's, and as mentioned earlier find out min ACT/SAT.  This will enable you to refine target schools, while you're son is focused on below:

Three weeks to get faster, improve approach at plate, touch up receiving/blocking skills.  You'd be shocked what can happen in three weeks....by default the confidence grows!

You've received a lot of great feedback based off legit experiences. Good luck

So we need to add that there is a whole range of schools labelled "high academic", from MIT/Caltech on down.  Some have large teams, some have small teams.  Some have extremely selective admissions and some do not.  These things don't necessarily correlate the way one would expect (JHU is an example, extremely rigorous admissions but large rosters).

Every player has a sweet spot of where he can get in (with or without coach support) and where he can play baseball.  NotABaseballGuy, your son didn't immediately impress at his first Showball.  That doesn't mean he's done, it means he has to (a) try to improve in the next 3 weeks as Gov says, (b) try to get a better understanding of what the coaches he has already contacted are thinking, and (c) do more research on other schools that you have not yet considered, but that might be better fits baseball-wise.

It's a couple days now, have you had any contact yet?   I've read this with interest.  My 2025 LHP has similar GPA stats; also goes to a highly rated HS; based on PSAT I think should SAT 1450+; went to Showball this summer to see if he fits in a D1 pond.  He's been throwing 82-84;  T85 a few times this summer.  Very good secondary stuff but only threw 83 at Showball.  While there, he had a dugout discussion with a D3 who was clearly selling.  The next day, he got emails from 2 very high academic D3s asking him for summer schedule and the HS course catalog.  This all said, I doubt he'll have any D1 interest until he can sit 85.  I know LHPs are different but what I think is that if a 2024 doesn't get any follow up within a week of Showball, he just might be in the wrong pond.

In terms of High Academic D3 tiers, I think it goes something like this in terms of difficulty in getting in (assuming the skills are there).  Thanks to TBPT, my go-to HA guy, for helping me form THIS OPINION.  Before anyone goes off, I think I could totally be wrong or there are exceptions to this.

Tier 1:  MIT/Cal Tech.  freakishly hard to get in.  Need 3.9+ uwGPA, impressive ECs,  1520+/35+. Even if you are a stud player... total crap shoot.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2A: JHU/UnivChicago.  3.9+ uwGPA.  1500+/34-35+.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2B:  Swarthmore/Williams/Pomona /Tufts/WUSTL/Emory/CMS/W&L/Amherst/

Bowdoin/Middlebury/Colby/Haverford/Babson: 3.8-3.9 uwGPA, Still definitely will want test scores.  Maybe as low as 1400+ can possibly do it if you have mad skills or even lower if you have under represented minority status.

Tier 3:  NYU/CWRU/Hamilton/Brandeis/Rochester/Wesleyan/Grinnell/Trinity (CT)/WPI/RPI/Stevens/Bates/Carleton/Macalester/Wesleyan: 3.75 + uwGPA, Still generally will want test scores.  Maybe 1300+ can do it?

Tier 4:  DePauw/Denison/Gettysburg/Washington and Jeff/Trinity TX/Franklin Marshall/Kenyon/Occidental/Wooster/Chapman/Whittier/Centre/Clark/Wheaton/Lewis and Clark/Dickenson/Muhlenberg/Whitman/rose hulman)/a few others.   Now we're getting to schools that might be test optional.

Everything else probably is not a high academic.

Decent reference regarding Nescac:

Hehttps://collegejaguar.com/nescac-schools-ranked-academically/#:~:text=Bowdoin%20College%20nips%20right%20at,look%20at%20acceptance%20rate%20only.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

It's a couple days now, have you had any contact yet?   I've read this with interest.  My 2025 LHP has similar GPA stats; also goes to a highly rated HS; based on PSAT I think should SAT 1450+; went to Showball this summer to see if he fits in a D1 pond.  He's been throwing 82-84;  T85 a few times this summer.  Very good secondary stuff but only threw 83 at Showball.  While there, he had a dugout discussion with a D3 who was clearly selling.  The next day, he got emails from 2 very high academic D3s asking him for summer schedule and the HS course catalog.  This all said, I doubt he'll have any D1 interest until he can sit 85.  I know LHPs are different but what I think is that if a 2024 doesn't get any follow up within a week of Showball, he just might be in the wrong pond.

In terms of High Academic D3 tiers, I think it goes something like this in terms of difficulty in getting in (assuming the skills are there).  Thanks to TBPT, my go-to HA guy, for helping me form THIS OPINION.  Before anyone goes off, I think I could totally be wrong or there are exceptions to this.

Tier 1:  MIT/Cal Tech.  freakishly hard to get in.  Need 3.9+ uwGPA, impressive ECs,  1520+/35+. Even if you are a stud player... total crap shoot.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2A: JHU/UnivChicago.  3.9+ uwGPA.  1500+/34-35+.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2B:  Swarthmore/Williams/Pomona /Tufts/WUSTL/Emory/CMS/W&L/

Bowdoin/Middlebury/Colby/Haverford/Babson: 3.8-3.9 uwGPA, Still definitely will want test scores.  Maybe as low as 1400+ can possibly do it if you have mad skills or even lower if you have under represented minority status.

Tier 3:  NYU/CWRU/Hamilton/Brandeis/Rochester/Wesleyan/Grinnell/Trinity (CT)/WPI/RPI/Stevens/Bates/Carleton/Rose Hulman/Macalester/Wesleyan: 3.75 + uwGPA, Still generally will want test scores.  Maybe 1300+ can do it?

Tier 4:  DePauw/Denison/Gettysburg/Washington and Jeff/Trinity TX/Franklin Marshall/Kenyon/Occidental/Wooster/Chapman/Whittier/Centre/Clark/Wheaton/Lewis and Clark/Dickenson/Muhlenberg/Whitman/a few others.   Now we're getting to schools that might be test optional.

Everything else probably is not a high academic.

Well done!

That jaguar site is awesome.  I corrected the above.  Somehow forgot Amherst

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

It's a couple days now, have you had any contact yet?   I've read this with interest.  My 2025 LHP has similar GPA stats; also goes to a highly rated HS; based on PSAT I think should SAT 1450+; went to Showball this summer to see if he fits in a D1 pond.  He's been throwing 82-84;  T85 a few times this summer.  Very good secondary stuff but only threw 83 at Showball.  While there, he had a dugout discussion with a D3 who was clearly selling.  The next day, he got emails from 2 very high academic D3s asking him for summer schedule and the HS course catalog.  This all said, I doubt he'll have any D1 interest until he can sit 85.  I know LHPs are different but what I think is that if a 2024 doesn't get any follow up within a week of Showball, he just might be in the wrong pond.

In terms of High Academic D3 tiers, I think it goes something like this in terms of difficulty in getting in (assuming the skills are there).  Thanks to TBPT, my go-to HA guy, for helping me form THIS OPINION.  Before anyone goes off, I think I could totally be wrong or there are exceptions to this.

Tier 1:  MIT/Cal Tech.  freakishly hard to get in.  Need 3.9+ uwGPA, impressive ECs,  1520+/35+. Even if you are a stud player... total crap shoot.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2A: JHU/UnivChicago.  3.9+ uwGPA.  1500+/34-35+.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2B:  Swarthmore/Williams/Pomona /Tufts/WUSTL/Emory/CMS/W&L/Amherst/

Bowdoin/Middlebury/Colby/Haverford/Babson: 3.8-3.9 uwGPA, Still definitely will want test scores.  Maybe as low as 1400+ can possibly do it if you have mad skills or even lower if you have under represented minority status.

Tier 3:  NYU/CWRU/Hamilton/Brandeis/Rochester/Wesleyan/Grinnell/Trinity (CT)/WPI/RPI/Stevens/Bates/Carleton/Macalester/Wesleyan: 3.75 + uwGPA, Still generally will want test scores.  Maybe 1300+ can do it?

Tier 4:  DePauw/Denison/Gettysburg/Washington and Jeff/Trinity TX/Franklin Marshall/Kenyon/Occidental/Wooster/Chapman/Whittier/Centre/Clark/Wheaton/Lewis and Clark/Dickenson/Muhlenberg/Whitman/rose hulman)/a few others.   Now we're getting to schools that might be test optional.

Everything else probably is not a high academic.

This is such an interesting discussion because we all obtain different information from different sources at different times.

I have some real world data points to offer that make me doubt some of the content above. My 2022 was admitted to four of your Tier 3 schools without submitting test scores. The 2022 had athletic pre-reads (different sport) at three of the four and lack of test scores was not identified as a problem at the time of the pre-read. (There was no pre-read or coach support at the fourth school.) Of these four admits, one was via EA and the other three were via RD. 2022 did not apply ED anywhere. Didn't want to commit. But I'm confident that an ED application would have yielded admission to at least some of your Tier 2B even without scores. For what it's worth, 2022 graduated from the same school with roughly the same GPA as the 2024.

Is the 2022 an outlier? I don't know. But these are facts.

This isn't meant to be argumentative, but for those other parents of 2024, 2025, etc., who might be reading this, I think we need to acknowledge some significant uncertainty (which Dadbelly does) vis a vis the need for test scores. The admissions landscape is changing and I expect test scores to be further deemphasized going forward as a means of offsetting the recent Supreme Court decision on affirmative action.

As to coach outreach, nothing yet. I'll post an update about that in a week or two for those who might be interested.

In 2018, a member here, bogeyorpar, produced a list of HA schools ranked by academics, baseball, and combined:

https://community.hsbaseballwe...ranking-2018-edition

It's pretty cool, although of course somewhat outdated now.  A useful thing is that it lists the Massey ranking of the schools, which you can still look up here.  Incidentally, his son ended up not playing in college.

@Dadbelly2023 posted:

It's a couple days now, have you had any contact yet?   I've read this with interest.  My 2025 LHP has similar GPA stats; also goes to a highly rated HS; based on PSAT I think should SAT 1450+; went to Showball this summer to see if he fits in a D1 pond.  He's been throwing 82-84;  T85 a few times this summer.  Very good secondary stuff but only threw 83 at Showball.  While there, he had a dugout discussion with a D3 who was clearly selling.  The next day, he got emails from 2 very high academic D3s asking him for summer schedule and the HS course catalog.  This all said, I doubt he'll have any D1 interest until he can sit 85.  I know LHPs are different but what I think is that if a 2024 doesn't get any follow up within a week of Showball, he just might be in the wrong pond.

In terms of High Academic D3 tiers, I think it goes something like this in terms of difficulty in getting in (assuming the skills are there).  Thanks to TBPT, my go-to HA guy, for helping me form THIS OPINION.  Before anyone goes off, I think I could totally be wrong or there are exceptions to this.

Tier 1:  MIT/Cal Tech.  freakishly hard to get in.  Need 3.9+ uwGPA, impressive ECs,  1520+/35+. Even if you are a stud player... total crap shoot.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2A: JHU/UnivChicago.  3.9+ uwGPA.  1500+/34-35+.  Mandatory test scores.

Tier2B:  Swarthmore/Williams/Pomona /Tufts/WUSTL/Emory/CMS/W&L/Amherst/

Bowdoin/Middlebury/Colby/Haverford/Babson: 3.8-3.9 uwGPA, Still definitely will want test scores.  Maybe as low as 1400+ can possibly do it if you have mad skills or even lower if you have under represented minority status.

Tier 3:  NYU/CWRU/Hamilton/Brandeis/Rochester/Wesleyan/Grinnell/Trinity (CT)/WPI/RPI/Stevens/Bates/Carleton/Macalester/Wesleyan: 3.75 + uwGPA, Still generally will want test scores.  Maybe 1300+ can do it?

Tier 4:  DePauw/Denison/Gettysburg/Washington and Jeff/Trinity TX/Franklin Marshall/Kenyon/Occidental/Wooster/Chapman/Whittier/Centre/Clark/Wheaton/Lewis and Clark/Dickenson/Muhlenberg/Whitman/rose hulman)/a few others.   Now we're getting to schools that might be test optional.

Everything else probably is not a high academic.

This is really good.

I would just be a bit more explicit re: Tier 1 and Tier 2 - the coaches at MIT, CalTech, UChicago, and Johns Hopkins do not have athletic chits through admissions. Meaning, the student has to be of an academic profile that they could get into the school without sports. And generally, the more sought after you are as a recruit, the more there is flexibility on the academic side except at those 4 schools.

well done!