What to do when the fit is horrendous?

Very good question JT. Folks?

In D1, technically, you have to ask for a release before you can talk to another school.

If given a release, your name goes on a release list, I know some players who were picked up by other schools that way. I am only familiar with D1.

Go back to talk to schools that had previously recruited son. Start the process of doing homework all over again for next fall.

Do realize that things change after the recruiting honeymoon. The recruit is now a player. Very important to talk to parents or former players, etc.

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In D1, technically, you have to ask for a release before you can talk to another school.

Which would pretty much guarantee maximum bench time and possibly other repurcussions, wouldn't it?

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Originally posted by StyleMismatch:

quote:

In D1, technically, you have to ask for a release before you can talk to another school.

Which would pretty much guarantee maximum bench time and possibly other repurcussions, wouldn't it?

Most likely, but if a player were smart, he would wait until close to end of season. As I said I do beleive technically a player cannot talk to a new coach, I am not sure if anyone else can or cannot.

For those rules, best to check with NCAA.

Can't have it both ways. Talk to the coach 1st and if issues can't be resolved ask for a release.

one of my friends son's went to a d2 school. recieved some acedemic money which allowed his parents to afford the school.and the coach wanted him to pitch,but with no bball money.he found himself struggling with his grades,i'm not sure if he talked to the coach or how it all shook out. but he felt he was getting close to losing his acedemic money,so he applied to another school.just to be safe. so when the other school called for transcript's the admisions called the coach and......... he found the bench the rest of the year. be careful when you do things.

if your buddy speaks with his or any other compliance person they'll lay out the following before even getting into the release part

permission to contact forms

quote:

NCAA Bylaw 13.1.1.3 states that an athletics staff member or other representative of the institution's athletics interests shall not make contact with the student-athlete of another NCAA or NAIA four-year collegiate institution, directly or indirectly, without first obtaining the written permission of the first institution's athletics director (or an athletics administrator designated by the athletics director) to do so, regardless of who makes the initial contact.

NCAA Bylaw 13.1.1.3.1 states that if an institution decides to deny a student-athlete's request to permit any other institution to contact the student-athlete about transferring, the institution shall inform the student-athlete in writing that he or she, upon request, shall be provided a hearing conducted by an institutional entity or committee outside of the athletics department (e.g., the office of student affairs; office of the dean of students; or a committee composed of the faculty athletics representative, student-athletes and nonathletics faculty/staff members). The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request.

that said, since w/o permission another coach can't contact the S-A ...
feelers, interest inquiries, & communication are in reality often handled thru a third party .. ie. hs coach, ex-hs or ex-summer team-mates, a friend, etc. often it's all but a done deal by the time any official contact forms are filed.

a release may or may not eventually be granted, but those who decide to leave a program are usually gone whether they get it or not. If not initially granted it can usually be gotten on appeal, but it drags out & wastes time
note that compliance (contact/release) paperwork comes from the AD, so a conversation with the coach isn't really necessary if it's too tense -
if it's too tense just let the AD address any necessary issues with your (oops) your friend's coach

hope that helps

I was told by a current player on one of my sons recruiting visits, that a great many players wait until summer ball when they can talk with other college players about their situations. In fact, this player went on to say that many of the players actively encourage other players to transfer to their schools.

JT

We have experienced this.
This is how my son handled it.
The player keeps the best attitude possible. He practices hard and give no hint of leaving during the season. After the season is finished he can approach the coach for a FULL RELEASE.
Keeping a good attitude is important as the coach can really be a @##$%!@#$ if he chooses and the player can be restricted to an limited release. Your guy could be restricted west of the colorado river, of course he may then become a So. Cal player which he would then send multiple thank you letters to the ex coach.
Ok back to the subject. The full release is what he is gunning for. However, most of the time teams in the same conference won't take a player the next year.

When mine asked for his release after his freshman year, the head coach called him at the beginng of the summer and my kid ended up staying another year. The next year it was mutual ,but respectful and a full release was issued. If the player does it like an adult most of the time they will get a full release.

Good Luck

JT, My son went to JUCO, so he didn't have to worry about the release part, but still didn't want to make life miserable for himself (although he had already asked to RS) nor be disrespectful to his current coach. He knew without a doubt that he did not want to return to that school a second year.

He was home for a couple of days at Easter and his HS coach knew how unhappy he was. His HS coach told another coach and so on. Well, he knew that a couple of guys were going to contact other schools. That was fine. However, I think it was the next week his current coach calls him into his office. One of these schools that was interested went and called the current coach.... I guess assuming that the current coach knew? So, the cat was out of the bag before son really wanted it to be so. At that point, he was honest and explained his decision. I actually think he was able to provide some meaningful insight for that program.

So, through the grapevine so to speak he began to receive calls from other programs. The school he ultimately ended up choosing he had sent an email to himself letting them know he was leaving JUCO. The coach was immediately concerned if JUCO knew he was speaking to other programs which of course he was.

I don't think that many coach's will contact a kid if they aren't clear that the current coach is aware of situation. They will wait for the season to be over or want to know that the other coach is in the loop. They will and DO all the time have conversations with a third party though while waiting to speak with the player.

So, have the word put out there, but make it very clear that his current coach isn't aware and the player will be available to discuss options after __________ date. The player your speaking of has a current season to be focusing on right now.

Also, tell him not to badmouth the current coach! No other coach wants to hear stuff like that. It just isn't a fit for him.

Like has been said... if he plays summerball... I think all kids can easily find options out there that way.

I have never read, heard or seen anything like my son's college experience, and I too would never discuss the details. Lots happens over the summer, take everyone aboves advice, it is all good. When you talk to parents at prospective school...talk to upperclassmen parents, sometimes things seem great at first, but the layers of the onion begin to peel away! If it is that bad, get the release and you'll find somewhere to play.

Find a summer woodbat team. Numerous opportunities will open up as a result, since the release will be granted by then. Since summer team spots are usually arranged by the coach, you will need to make your own contacts, unless the coach wwill place him for you. You are looking at alot of phone calls, but it might save a years eligibility.

Collegebaseballfan,
Man,...I havent walked in your shoes so I am drawing a complete blank as far as advice or suggestions. I haven't a clue. But I do wish your son and your family the best of luck in resolving this issue.

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He does not deserve the treatment he is recieving

This worries me. I'm a HS Junior's mom. We are in the middle of trying to make some really solid
good-fit decisions.
Without naming names or locations, if anyone would be so willing, I would love to know via p.m. what to watch out for.
I'm concerned.
This sounds extreme and obviously is a very sensitive issue.

ssmon, exactly my feelings!! As you know, we will even have a hard time visiting any schools that my son may get interest from, due to our limited time back in the States before being hauled back over here to work. So.....this scares the heck out of me......but I guess, as in the situation described, even HAVING met the coach, etc., things can go south unexpectedly. I guess we listen to our guts, listen to other players, ask questions here....and hope for the best.

ssm,
I understand what you are looking for, but do remember, everyone's experiences are different. I know some who have transferred from programs for whatever reasons that come to mind, coach, school, program, not enough playing time, etc, while others loved every minute of it. Each situation is different and unique.
Unfortunetly, even after doing tons of homework, it just doesn't work out sometimes.

Since we don't know the exact situation, I think coaches sometimes, especially those who don't or won't communicate well are sending a signal without having to do the dirty worklater on of telling a player his scholarship is not being renewed.

I would defintly go ahead and request the release through the AD now, since there is no chance the player wants to remain. This way, you can begin inquires and maybe pick up some schollie $$ before it is gone. The only problem is, if a player has not played, he needs to be seen somewhere to show he is capable of an opportunity, it's not going to happen because he is just a great player in the parents eyes.

As Dad04 suggests,try to find a summer wood bat league to play inas this brings lots of summer opportunities for many to transfer.

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Each situation is different and unique.

Will keep this in mind indeed, TPMom.

Very true, very true!

ssm and Krak - you ask the 64,000 dollar question!

How does one know?

How does one know anything in life? How do we know when we are married that our marriage will last the rest of our lives? We could ask these type of questions over and over again about any subject.

My son and I found a school before we ever knew or heard about the hsbbweb. This is a great resource but can be scary at the same time when you are exposed to horror stories and differing opinions. Use it as a tool but don't become a slave to it or become paralyzed by it. You don't need anyone's reassurance to make the right decision for YOUR family.

How to do it? We listened to our hearts.

We made priorities and we followed them. For us, baseball was a stronger priority than school although school was a consideration. Location also factored into it. For MOST, school seems to be the bigger priority. The thing is, it is a free country. What is right for me is likely wrong for you.

Feel it, touch it, smell it, talk to it, taste it, experience it, visit it, research it, talk to others about it, but most importantly listen to your heart There are no guarantees but that is what makes life interesting

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Feel it, touch it, smell it, talk to it, taste it, experience it, visit it, research it, talk to others about it, but most importantly listen to your heart There are no guarantees but that is what makes life interesting

When it does work out you still feel very lucky, lucky your son recognized the correct opportunity for him and made the leap of faith to make it work on and off the field (OAOTF), new hsbbweb acronym.

quote:

My son and I found a school before we ever knew or heard about the hsbbweb. This is a great resource but can be scary at the same time when you are exposed to horror stories and differing opinions. Use it as a tool but don't become a slave to it or become paralyzed by it. You don't need anyone's reassurance to make the right decision for YOUR family.

How to do it? We listened to our hearts.

Dan....

Please don't take this the wrong way, but often those who we have known from the past will call us with this exact problem.

Much of the advice posted is very good. But it sure helps having someone you trust on your side in these situations.

Presently we know of five players who will be asking for their release at the end of the season. The process can get started earlier, but it takes extreme confidentiality and an independent party that can talk to anyone they want without penalty to anyone. Coaches will not talk to the player or his family.

There can be no contact until the player is officially released. If the coach stalls on the release there are other steps you can take. It is important that everything is done correctly and discreetly. Especially if the player is playing at that college now.

Transfers are very common in baseball. Our first thought is to always try to find out if the change is absolutely a certainty. Sometimes players change their mind and end up happy where they're at.

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
...make it work on and off the field (OAOTF), new hsbbweb acronym.

That is a very good one (TIAVGO).

CBBfan,
You are welcome.
Yes there are opportunities and options but that doesn't necessarily mean each player gets them.

You have gotten good advice, but not knowing what the horrendous situation is, it's very difficult to "predict" any outcome.

Best of luck.

.

Follow up questions that may hold great signficance to this topic...

It would seem to me that when the new rules for transfers waiting a year and new smaller roster sizes will significantly affect any player thinking of transferring and will be well worth researching...

First...When will the new NCAA "anti-transfer" rules come into play? With this group of tranfers (season of 08)? Or '09?

Second...If this indeed the last year of practical transfers, will there be a rush? And how will this affect the available roster openings?

...Musical chairs?


44
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quote:

So basically, even at the end of the season and thru the summer, there are still oppertunities to get picked up by another school. Is that correct?

Yes, there are opportunities out there. The difficult challenge comes in that your son will have less time to make a choice. Schools won't be willing to sit back and wait for months come summer, so he'll have to be ready to research, investigate and ponder more quickly. Just make sure that he doesn't jump from the frying pan into the fire and fully thinks about those options.... not just rushing to get out of the bad fit he's in currently.

.
I'm sorry...

Best wishes to your son as he make the transition to a new program. I have a feeling that everything is going to be all right in the end.

You are so right when you say, "the good news is he kept his grades up" ... That will keep other doors open. Many guys who get down about baseball let their academics go down the drain and then they really have a hard (and expensive) trip back. Best wishes.... maybe in the Spring of 08 or 09 you'll be singing a very bright tune.

What I'm taking away from these threads, and knowing someone who was in this situation last year, seems like the parents and the student need to use visits as much as the schools.

We are able to attend games of several DI schools, so we can see what the style of coaching - at least on the the field - is like. Temper tantrums turn us off.

.

This is where the HSBBW can be of its greatest value...

I would be VERY interested in seeing a series of posts from people whose son's HAVE taken a release in previous years...

Now that it's over...

How did it go overall?
Your process?
Was the grass greener in the end?
How much greener?
Advice?
Considerations?
If we were to do it over again...

44
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great idea, observer 44

Any takers?

COLLEGE BB FAN:

I think you speak for a whole lot of players' situations with your post.

Congratulations to him on this decision--difficult as it was, I'm sure, in many ways.

Best of luck with whatever he does....please let us know.



I also wish good luck to all whose baseball paths may end at the end of this season. Sadly, not everyone who plays in college is in a "good fit"--either in baseball or academics. A lot of soul-searching will take place---or continue to....I hope that everyone who is faced with it makes the right decision and the best of a not-good situation....And that their college baseball-playing days are over when they decide when it's time...and not because of the bad situation they are in.

College Fan ...

Best wishes to your son as he takes a new journey. Am sure we can all appreciate your feelings with regard to $$$ not being worth the problems your son had to endure this past year. Here's hoping he is able to continue to pursue his passion at the college level.

I've covered my son's travails in another thread, so I won't go into them here.

Bottom line - there are no guarantees. If things are absolutely untenable, with either the team (coach) or the school, then you have to make a tough decision. In my son's case, he was never crazy about the school, but loved his coach and teammates. After his coach decided to leave, he stuck it out one more year out of friendship and loyalty with his teammates. It's hard to say whether THAT was the correct decision or not. He was able to establish himself as one of the league's top pitchers, but also delayed making a decision he probably should have made after his freshman year. Long story - short, he transfers. The new coach jerked him around for a couple of weeks, as the AD refused to grant the release until he got the coach's ok.

In our case it would've likely worked out better if he'd made the decision to transfer after one year. He could've gone JUCO, got his grades in order, and had plenty of opportunity to play and re-recruit the next spring. As it was, he stayed one more year and ended up with fewer D1 options because of the NCAA progress-toward-degree rules.

As far as I know, it was no problem for me (the parent) to make contact with coaches, just to let them know that my son was going to be available, if they were interested. However no coaches would talk with him until he obtained the release.

If you're talking about NCAA, be sure that you know the NCAA Transfer Guide backwards and forwards.

College BB, sounds like you have your ducks in order.

Good luck to you.

That coach sounds like a royal jerk. Glad your son is moving on to (hopefully) greener pastures. Best wishes to him!

CollegeBBFan - I'm sorry your son has had such a horrible experience. Sounds like he will be much better off in a new environment. I think that kind of behavior will probably catch up with the coach eventually. Best wishes to your son.

college bb fan - you have a pm

Look at the bright side, at least you're in college and have choices, think of the kids in a similar situation but are in high school. They have to stay.

Thanks for all the advice, help and support that I have recieved.
I deleted all my previous posts, I just wanted to put it behind us and move foward with a positive attitude.
Trying to have faith that it will all work out for the best in the end.