What would you do?

Get'em to practice earlier and let him throw with a friendly teammate.

Just a thought.

I agree with Estone28. I don't think it out of line, either, for your son to express his wish (directly) to his coach that he needs to warm up some more.

It's all in how the kid approaches the coach.

WRONG: Coach, you don't give us enough warmup pitches.

RIGHT: Coach, I believe I need more warmup pitches to get loose before I'm ready.

If more throws don't fit into the schedule, follow the get their early advice.

I am with RJM and estone


Any coach worth his salt should listen to a kid who says he is not ready yet

Thanks folks! It's hard to fathom that they wouldn't warm them up more. As far as the one post saying get him to practice early to throw with a friendly teammate.....the practice is right after school and so the regiment is all directed by the coaches and everything moves along fast. There's no time nor is there space to be able to pull aside and do that. Too cold outside to throw out there as well.

Why does he have to throw max effort to the batters he is facing? Why not just throw getting warmed up as your throwing to the batters? If the coach asks why he is not throwing hard say "Im not loose yet coach it takes me some time to get loose." Maybe then he will realize he needs to let the pitchers get loose before they throw to the batters. If he doesnt then throw to get warmed up to the batters. Dont ever cut it loose until your properly warmed up.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Why does he have to throw max effort to the batters he is facing? Why not just throw getting warmed up as your throwing to the batters? If the coach asks why he is not throwing hard say "Im not loose yet coach it takes me some time to get loose." Maybe then he will realize he needs to let the pitchers get loose before they throw to the batters. If he doesnt then throw to get warmed up to the batters. Dont ever cut it loose until your properly warmed up.

Good advice! I will suggest this. He did tell me that the coach stands right there as they are pitching so I'm sure there is some pressure to throw "max" but lowering the throttle out of the gate (after just 6 warm-up throws) is the way to go.

Before a game how many pitches do they let the pitchers throw to get loose in the bullpen?

I hate to say this but they may just give them 6 because that is how many they get before the start of an inning.

I guess I'm not getting why the coach is rushing to get the BP in. I guess that's his perogative but keeping the arms healthy, to me, would be far more important. Doesn't he want good pitching this year?

As a parent I would never question the coach.. but perhaps if your kid mentioned that he takes awhile to get warmed up.. is it okay to get in his warmups? I don't see how that is a challenge to a coach's authority as its a request.

Before Bum, Jr. pitches he does a routine of stretching, a pro warm-up including running and sprinting, and a fairly elaborate long-toss routine. It would scare me to think he'd throw max speed without a proper warmup.

from description it sounds like mutiple pitchers throwing to multiple batters at the same time ... how would that work in a gym? are batters hitting, or just standing in the box??

if hitting, I don't follow where "max effort" is part of throwing BP indoors, presumably from behind an L-screen on flat ground at less than 60'6"

and further it'd be unusual (to me anyway) to find even an experienced BP pitcher who could locate the ball efectively to the batter with no real warm-up


if multiple pitchers with 60'6" raised mounds & no L-screen are pitching to live hitting in a gym, that sounds interesting ... how does it work?

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
from description it sounds like mutiple pitchers throwing to multiple batters at the same time ... how would that work in a gym? are batters hitting, or just standing in the box??

if hitting, I don't follow where "max effort" is part of throwing BP indoors, presumably from behind an L-screen on flat ground at less than 60'6"

and further it'd be unusual (to me anyway) to find even an experienced BP pitcher who could locate the ball efectively to the batter with no real warm-up


if multiple pitchers with 60'6" raised mounds & no L-screen are pitching to live hitting in a gym, that sounds interesting ... how does it work?

they are pitching to try to strike the batters out, the batters are trying to hit the pitchers. Yes, there are multiple pitchers and multiple batters all at the same time. I didn't ask but I would hope to goodness that they are behind an L-screen. I also believe they are pitching from 60'6" but I'll ask both of those questions. The six throws they get to warm up is not against the batter but with a catcher. I need to also see if the catcher is behind the plate.

quote:

by B, R-L: I would hope to goodness that they are behind an L-screen. I also believe they are pitching from 60'6"

regarding pitching mechanics, maybe I just haven't been around enough, but it would seem that L-screen mechanics are much different game-competitive mechs

Now how is this done??

Are there nets, find out??
Do they have raised mounds. How many do they have?
Find out OK?
How many catcher's do they have?
do they all wear gear?
Find out?
In a gym should they all wear batting helmets?
Find out?
EH

quote:

In a gym should they all wear batting helmets? Find out?

unless each has their own tunnel, an L-screen only protects from the batter you are throwing to, even then not 100%

The scenerio just does'nt sound right.

Anyway the Pitcher is in charge of there own ARM.
If there not warmed up??
It's there own Fault.
EH

quote:

Yes, there are multiple pitchers and multiple batters all at the same time.

yet dodge ball in gym class is too dangerous

go figure

This sounds down right crazy to me. Who protects the pitcher from the balls hit by the batters hitting off the other pitchers? What if a fielder is fielding a ball hit off one pitcher and a ball is hit his way from another batter? Muliple hitters and pitchers going at the same time? First of all how do you field anything off a bat inside a gym safely? If the pitchers are throwing from an L inside a gym are they on a portable mound? How many portable mounds do they have? So many scenarios for danger. I can not imagine hitting live off a pitcher inside a gym. I can not imagine trying to field a live ball off a metal bat inside a gym muchless mulitple hitters and pitchers going at the same time. I hope that this is not going on. This is extremely dangerous imo.

ok,,,they do pitch from 60'6", they are behind an L-screen. They are on a mound (artificial naturally) and again, they are indoors. It's the only pitching area they have with a mound so they rotate the pitchers and batters through very quickly so they can go on to the next station very quickly. Pitcher is expected to warmup very quickly (5 or 6 pitches) then start throwing to a live batter immediately. The purpose is to get the batters live pitching and the pitchers live batters. I agree that L-Screen mechanics would certainly have to be different from the real thing.
Guess what....now a sore arm...ugh! 3 days after the episode. he has practiced since then (no pitching)

Am I reading this correctly?

They are taking live BP with real balls inside a gym? Don't they break things in there?

Surely they aren't using the softer gym balls that weigh a fraction the weight of a real ball. That would be ridiculous if they are.

I'm sorry but I can't actually picture this. Are they doing this inside of tunnels or in an open gym?

What are the other stations you are talking about?

Based on what you have said you need to get your son out of this program.

Another H.S coach from hell. Best bet is teach your kid to do what is best for his health, he needs to learn to say no and suffer the consequences, especially if he has a future after high school ball. It's easier than you think.

Coach 2709: They are using a tunnel (netting) when they pitch behind the "L-screen". It is inside in a building built for baseball training (owned by high school--not real big necessarily). The other stations are just hitting tunnels. I'd say there are 2 to 3 hitting tunnels and 1 mound tunnel with L-screen. It's cold so there's very few days (if any) they can go outside and just throw to each other to get more warmed up. I don't think the gym is available for warming arms up (don't know but don't think so).

There's many ways for players to warm up there arm without throwing a baseball.
You can use the Towel drill.
Basicly you tie a towel in a knot.
Hold the towel by the knot like a ball, with the tale of the towel in the back.
And throw without letting go of the towel.
The tale will provide some drag, which in turn warm's your arm up??

Also you can use your glove, and hold in in your throwing hand.
And simulate your motion by throwing your glove.
Do not let go of glove??

Many ways to warm your arm.
Stretching help's a lot.
EH

Thanks switchhitter I guess I missed something earlier about the tunnel nets. That makes much more sense.

Still need to get the pitchers more throwing time though.

No, I don't think you missed anything, I probably forgot to mention the tunnels. He is now experiencing sore arm syndrome and it's disappointing. the pain is around the side of upper arm bicep/tricep as opposed to the shoulder or elbow. Kind a weird. But they pitched again today quite a bit and he asked to slow down a bit after well into some pitches.

quote:

Originally posted by smalltown:
Another H.S coach from hell. Best bet is teach your kid to do what is best for his health, he needs to learn to say no and suffer the consequences, especially if he has a future after high school ball. It's easier than you think.

yea, not sure if he's that bad but he does not conscienciously and maticulously make his rounds, check everyone out, monitor the workout, document the workout, do towel-drills, etc. Just gets everyone shoe-horned into various stations without regard to arm-pain and overthrowing and warm-ups and proper drills. Probably not the end of the world but I can't wait until they are outside and throwing and I think a lot of this will go away.

quote:

He is now experiencing sore arm syndrome and it's disappointing. the pain is around the side of upper arm bicep/tricep as opposed to the shoulder or elbow.

not a diagnosis, but muscle soresness is to be expected when starting a throwing routine back up

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

quote:

He is now experiencing sore arm syndrome and it's disappointing. the pain is around the side of upper arm bicep/tricep as opposed to the shoulder or elbow.

not a diagnosis, but muscle soresness is to be expected when starting a throwing routine back up

He's been throwing all off-season, just not pitching very much at all. knowing this, would you still make that conclusion.

I would suggest you see a good sports doctor is the pain/soreness is persisting

no, it just started this last week (after the lack of warm-up pitches on the indoor bump), then two practices later (days), the soreness has to be iced down.

switchitter
You asked for advice


Get him checked out---when the arm is doing things it never did before that is sign

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
switchitter
You asked for advice


Get him checked out---when the arm is doing things it never did before that is sign

Point well taken. I'll see what his reaction is.

are you kidding? was the response I got.

Usually (not always but most of the time) pain the in muscle is just soreness. He may have been throwing all winter and had a program going on but he has made a drastic change to it by not warming up. That will cause soreness or inflammation which is probably not an overall bad thing. When you have sharp pain in the elbow or shoulder then you have cause to worry.

Basically - get him checked out because it's better to go to the doctor and find out nothing is wrong than to play through it and end up really hurt.

Also, there is nothing wrong with using ice. I know there is a movement saying ice is not helpful but it definately won't hurt you.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
Usually (not always but most of the time) pain the in muscle is just soreness. He may have been throwing all winter and had a program going on but he has made a drastic change to it by not warming up. That will cause soreness or inflammation which is probably not an overall bad thing. When you have sharp pain in the elbow or shoulder then you have cause to worry.

Basically - get him checked out because it's better to go to the doctor and find out nothing is wrong than to play through it and end up really hurt.

Also, there is nothing wrong with using ice. I know there is a movement saying ice is not helpful but it definately won't hurt you.

I haven't heard of the "no-ice movement". That is interesting. Using the R.I.C.E. method is in about every trainer and physical therapy book written. I have a feeling that the movement you speak of will die out. Thanks for the recommendation. I won't be able to talk him into going, I can tell right now.

If you have to trick him or lead him into the car with a piece of candy to get him to go then do it. It will never hurt him to go to the doctor. I agree it is probably something that will go away on it's own but need to make sure.

The no ice movement came from a trainer that comes to our games on occasion. She and I were talking about different things and she brought it up to me. After that I have seen it in a few other places. I don't think it's a strong movement and probably won't catch on.

pitchers need to run a lot after throwing.
It gets rid of the lactic acid build-up in the muscle's that can cause soreness.
But should have the arm checked out.
EH

Anyone else go with this no-ice deal, or no what the basis of it is?

quote:

Originally posted by puma1:
Anyone else go with this no-ice deal, or no what the basis of it is?

FWIW,
Son only uses ice now after an outing, not during BP's anymore, he runs.

However, if unusual soreness is occuring (and everyone feels things differently) and persists see a doctor.

I am confused, don't they do pre warm up stretching before throwing? How does this work, they just line up and start throwing?

Working behind an L screen is just throwing, you can't use the proper pitching mechanics behind a screen, correct? That's the coaches job.

Why don't they just toss each day, and throw indoor pens every 3 days?

I need a better explanation.

quote:

Why don't they just toss each day, and throw indoor pens every 3 days? I need a better explanation.

they are prolly throwing the BP simply to save the coach's arm

agree, re l-screen mechanics: