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34 replies

When do you stop coaching your son?

justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
Whats a good age/grade to stop coaching your son in baseball?

I think the answer is different for different folks - I think you need to try and honestly assess your own abilities as a coach and your changing relationship with your son to decide. Some dads should stop at age 8 or 9, others later. But I definitely think that HS should be the end of the line for dad coaching son.

A number of people disagree with me on that - we've got lots of dads in our area trying to hook onto their son's HS as an assistant. I think even if they're a great coach, they only damage their son socially - parents and other kids talk and will never believe there isn't favoritism. I could cite many examples of this, even when the coach was well established at a high school before his son arrived.

I also think HS is the time to let them experience another coach's style, system, and program. I'm not talking about not being involved. Still believe in hitting them ground balls and throwing BP. Even working with them in the bullpen.

Thoughts?

________________
"Pitching is the art of instilling fear," Sandy Koufax.

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W Will1,000+ posts
I coached at a high school for many years. My son came in as a freshman. He made the freshman team. As people and kids tend to do there were statements and things written on lists posted on bulletin boards that eluded to the fact that he only made the freshman team cause I was the varsity coach. I did not know what i was going to do prior to his coming but this sort of prepared me for things to come. He made the varsity as a junior. I did not coach him as I left that year. Basically it is a no win situation. If he plays it is because he is your son if he does not you have to go home and eat dinner with him. As he was coming up Little league etc he at times was the victim of daddyball so you would think it would be time for paybacks but I did not want him to go through the scrutiny that was to come and quite frankly I knew I could not be the same coach. He did ok on "his own" and plays in college so it worked out ok.
CM Coach May1,000+ posts
Never is the answer. Never stop being your sons coach. You might at some point and time stop being the official coach of your son. But you should be his coach the rest of your life. The only thing that changes is the way you coach him. When I was a kid my dad made it fun so I would always want to play. When I got a little older he taught me that if I wanted to be the best I could be that I was going to have to work my butt off. He told me that if I didnt love it enough to work at it then I needed to get a job. When I got in High School he told me to respect my coach and listen to everything he told me to be a sponge. He taught me that hustle never slumps and the team is more important than the individual. When I started coaching he told me that winning games was secondary to helping young boys become young men. He coached me my whole life untill he passed away two years ago. He even taught me how to handle death with dignity and grace. To not ask why me and have self pity. But to comfort those who he knew would grieve at his passing. Dads should always coach their sons, forever. As far as High School coachs that coach their sons let me just say this. I had coached for several years before my oldest son got to High School. He came out for baseball and tryed out for the JV. I told the JV coach that the cuts were his call and if my son was not good enough to make the team to cut him just like he would any other kid. My son made the team and played 6 innings the whole season. He is still in the program and I have a very talented younger son that will be a freshman next year. I have told him if you want to play you better bury the competition because if its close the other guy will get the nod. I refuse to step down from my team and my other boys because other people are closed minded. If your son is good enough to play what are you afraid of? Be honest and be fair. And dont worry about things you can not controll.
H HiHardHeat1,000+ posts
I think honestly that the answer for most "Coach Dad's", including myself is:

"One year after I should have stopped".

Each player develops at a different rate. You can contribute and have meaningful impact, and then, suddenly, the boy has a break-out year and you realize that he has passed your ability to help him significantly anymore.

But, that's Ok......The time you spend together is ultimately much more important than anything that happens on a baseball field.
AgentDadAgentDad100+ posts
The magic time as far as I am concerned is after 8th grade. I stopped coaching my daughter in softball then and my son is in the eighth grade this year. I will coach him in travelball this year and hopefully he will find a new travelball team with his peers on the high school team for next year. He knows everything I know to teach him and now it is time to find someone else more knowledgeable to take him to the next level.

http://www.highviewheat.com/index.asp

http://www.kristensfastpitchworld.com/index.asp
D denise100+ posts
I have two sons, three years apart. They are now a high school sr. and freshmen. In the town we live in we have baseball for kids 5-12. At the age of 13 if they want to play they have to go to another town a few miles away.My husband had coach since my sons were old enough to play. When my oldest was 13 my husband was approached by the league director and asked to take a team. We had talked about this before hand and he had decided to let someone else coach our son. My husband played baseball through high school but that was it. He felt like he had taught my son and all the others as much as he could. He didn't want to hold them back. He decide to coach our younger son. It worked out great oldest son teams ended up being coach by a former college and semi-pro player, he taught them well. My point is teach your son all you can and let them go on.
rz1rz15,000+ posts
I think it's like any other parent/child issue. It comes down to a feeling inside that tells you it's time to back off, and it's almost painless.

I'm sure many posters will say I'm full of it, but I had the same thoughts a few years ago when I was very involved in coaching my sons team, and specifically him. Three years later he's off to college and instead of being his coach, I'm his biggest fan. I don't know how or when the transition happened, but it did. It's just another one of those "vibes" or subliminal messages between parent and child that has no explanation.
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CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
when I first became a head coach, we had a father - son tandem that was notorious for having a dialogue during the game. The first occurance, I took a timeout and made a substitution. I sent the kid over to the fence to get more in-depth instruction if you get my drift. As fate would have it, the substitute was able to get a hit and ... Ironically, all interference stopped. I know the point of this thread and I appreciate it. I know I took it out of context and I apologize. I think as long as you and your child are progressing as players and coaches, you are fine. Keep in mind that there will come a time/situation when you aren't the coach. You will then have to bide your time. BTW, anything that I post on here regarding parent-player-coach relations are taken care of with a parent's meeting before the first game. That parent crossed the line. I won't tolerate it.

"There comes a time when you have to stop dreaming of the man you want to be and start being the man you have become." Bruce Springsteen
B batman10+ posts
I coached my son up until he made the high school team as a freshman. That was the best move I ever made. Now I know he is playing because he loves the game and not just for me. He is now a Senior and asked me at least 3 times a week to long toss with him. About an hour before their game the other night he asked me to go throw him batting practice in the cage. I saw some of his other teammates in the cage and told him to just get one of them to throw to him. His response; "No dad, they don't take it serious, I want you to throw to me". That made my night being involved in someway even though he is a senior.
Bama BomberBama Bomber500+ posts
Call and ask Chipper Jones or Barry Bonds..

In some cases removing yourself as his coach could be the worst thing you could do, but in others it would be the right thing to do. It is often a hard call and a "true" assessment of his talent, your coaching ability and your relationship as father/son should let you know when its time.
P Pitchinside100+ posts
I think you should never stop instructing, but you should probably stop coaching when they stop listening!

For me, he stopped listening at 3yrs old. I happen to be pretty stubborn, and didn't stop coaching until he was 13.

It's sort of funny but, I got pretty smart , in my daughter's opinion, when she started paying rent on her own. I won't begin to smarten up for the boy for a couple more years. pull_hair

"You should enter a ballpark the way you enter a church." Bill -Spaceman- Lee
redbird5redbird510,000+ posts
Right on Coach May!

My father stopped being my official coach at age 13 but he was always my hitting coach. He could watch me swing the bat once in the cage and be able to tell how I was hitting. I never found a better hitting coach.

I am not sure when I will stop coaching my son. I would guess when he stops responding to me as his coach.
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
quote:
Originally posted by Bighit15:
quote:
The first occurance, I took a timeout and made a substitution. I sent the kid over to the fence to get more in-depth instruction if you get my drift.


So you called a time out, pulled the kid, embarrassed and humiliated the kid because you were mad at his dad? hmmmm I would prefer a coach mature enough to deal with the dad. JMO

http://www.eteamz.com/floridabombers/
"I love the HSBBW"


bIGHIT15, YOU HAVE ME FIGURED OUT. IMMATURE! I might have only been more immature if I had referred to other posters as, "What a baby" or "just a joke."

Then again, perhaps I would have only surpassed that if I posted "Most coaches don't want anything but a win."

Then again, I only posted about a father-son combo that had made it customary to continue a dialogue during a game instead of listening to the head coach. It might have been a primary reason that this position came open. It might be that I had a parent's and players meeting and outlined exactly what would happen if it happen while I am coaching. Seems someone is very quick to use labels here. Stepping on some toes?


"There comes a time when you have to stop dreaming of the man you want to be and start being the man you have become." Bruce Springsteen

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SLIDER24SLIDER2410+ posts
I guess I stopped officially coaching my son and his teams when he started playing travel ball instead of rec. ball at the age of (11).

I may not be the coach on the field for his practices or games, but I have a lot more time to work with him on the things his official coaches don't have time for.
So I quess as long as there are ground and fly balls to be hit or a pitch to be thrown I will consider it me and him just playing ball
(Not coaching)
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
quote:
bIGHIT15, YOU HAVE ME FIGURED OUT. IMMATURE! I might have only been more immature if I had referred to other posters as, "What a baby" or "just a joke."

Then again, perhaps I would have only surpassed that if I posted "Most coaches don't want anything but a win."



As far as personal attacks go, that is C-. I simply stated what would be my preference to have a more mature coach who did not feel the need to humiliate a kid to teach his dad a lesson. A little sensitive aren't we.

As far a referring to MaxE as "what a baby" or "Just a joke". Well that speaks for itself. I would be willing to be he was called worse by others in the same thread. My other quote was taken out of context(not unusual for guys who want to make personal attacks instead of arguing his point of view).

quote:
I aggree that parents need to look out for their sons. Most coaches don't want anything but a win


Please show me where that is inflammatory or wrong. Correct me if I am wrong, don't coaches want to win? Isn't that their priority over parental complaining of pitch counts and stuff. I simply implied that it is up to the parent to communicate before the season with the coach. If you are going to use things against me, please keep them in context. I suspect that you are offended by that remark because you are a coach and have a coaches point of view. You are not the first HS coach that gets offended if people don't hold up coaches as pillars of virtue and knowledge.

You are the one that went off thread track to tell everyone how you humiliated a kid so as to teach his father a lesson, not I. If you don't want people to comment on your posts, then don't say things that might rub some people the wrong way.

One of the things that really gets my goat is guys that come on and post and then get all bent out of shape and defensive if someone disagrees with them.

quote:
Then again, I only posted about a father-son combo that had made it customary to continue a dialogue during a game instead of listening to the head coach. It might have been a primary reason that this position came open. It might be that I had a parent's and players meeting and outlined exactly what would happen if it happen while I am coaching. Seems someone is very quick to use labels here. Stepping on some toes?


I have coached and would never humiliate a kid to teach his father a lesson. I would try something else first. Maybe you did. I don't know. You did not say that you tried other avenues. I wouldn't do it in any case. If you think that I am labeling you as immature, so be it. I think it is an immature action. I am entitled to my opinion.

I welcome your opinions, but I would prefer that you make an argument rather than attack me. It would be more mature. It is obvious that I ticked you off. It was not meant to anger you, but rather to show another point of view. If that means that you are going to focus on me to hate or dislike go ahead. It won't be the first time. It won't be mature either.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
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MN-MomMN-MomHSBaseballWeb Owner
CoachB25,

I just wanted to say that when I read your original post, it sounded to me like a reasonable way to send a message that needed to be sent, given the situation you described. And I thought it related well to this topic. I'm just a mom who loves baseball, but I thought I'd offer my opinion.
S sevenup10+ posts
Bighit15 - I don't think what the coach humiliated the kid. What it sounds like is that his dad had been doing a good job of semi-humiliating his son up to that point anyway by being so vocal in his coaching from behind the fence. Boy have I been guilty of that over the years until I happen to hear myself when my wife was taping my son's game. I'll bet the kid's skin was pretty tough already.
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
If you guys think that calling a time out in the middle of an inning and benching a kid because his father is a loudmouth is appropriate, that is ok with me. I personally would find another way to handle it without doing it that way. Even if you waited until the end of the inning that would have been fine. Pulling the kid in the middle of an inning? Not a way I would handle it. Sit the kid and talk to the both of them after the game, if it continues kick him off of the team. Benching him for all to see in the middle of an inning is not what I would want a coach to do as his first course of action. That is my opinion. If you want you child treated that way, go for it. I just don't hink that exhibits the characteristics of sound thinking or great coaching. It sounds like the ego needed to send a message. That is the way it looks to me.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"
B BigWI1,000+ posts
Good question!

During the HS season I keep my mouth shut.
During the Fall season I keep my mouth shut.

Both of those coaches have forgotten more about baseball then I will ever know.

Winter and Spring I still work with them on their hitting, pitching and conditioning.

I was offered the chance to coach the freshman team(both my guys were varsity) and I turned it down and said that if the job opened up after they graduated I would consider it then.

Play every game as if it were your last
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AgentDadAgentDad100+ posts
I have had occasions to disagree with Bighit before, but this is not one of them. I do not disagree with what the coach said - only when and where he said it. That statement needed to be said or a constant problem would have resulted, but I would have waited until after the game or at least after the inning to issue the warning. Many kids with parents like that are already embarrassed by their actions, calling attention to it without first warning the parent not to do it is unfair to the kid. I most likely would have waited until after the game, pulled the two aside and said "Mr. Smith, you may have coached John his entire life, but I am coaching him now and if you ever do that again I will pull him out of the game and send him up to sit in the stands with you." I think you would have actually accomplished more with this than you did with the other. Parents learn more when you take humiliation out of the equation. He would have still gotten mad for a while, but probably would have realized his mistake. I don't believe you tramatized the kid or anything that dramatic, but teens are pretty sensitive about being embarrassed in front of a crowd. I think the player would have gotten even more respect for you because of it. It is easy to sit back and say what we would have done, but in the heat of the moment people react the way they feel is best at the time and I don't think what you did was that out of line.

http://www.highviewheat.com/index.asp

http://www.kristensfastpitchworld.com/index.asp
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CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
First I want to say thanks to those that posted on here and supported my position. Thanks! Bighit suggest that I have an ego problem. I do. Do you want anyone coaching your son that doesn't? I carry myself with pride. I talk championships but I have won championships. The school I am at now had won 2 regionals in all of the time the school has existed. That goes back decades. Heck, we have won 2 in just the past 2 years. To quote the St. Louis Post Dispatch, "Coach Butler has turned Triad High School into a local and state power." (This was after we won the Lincoln Invitational Tournament last year.)

Had I not had the meeting then Bighhit would be right. It would be an ego problem. He also wants to suggest that this is an innocent kid. He was not. The purpose was not to humiliate the kid but to be very honest, some humility was needed. This situation ran off the former coach. I addressed the issue. I asked, in the parents meeting if there were any questions regarding what would happen. To address this parent and child before the incident on reputation alone would have been to have them be guilty before they were guilty of this conduct around me. However, once it happened, I did exactly what I told ALL OF THE PARENTS that I would do.

The origional point of this thread was when to stop coaching. Because of my ego, because of the countless hours and money I put into this program, because of my reputation in this state and especially within the St. Louis Metrpolitan area, I think I, as a coach, am entitled to demand that parents step back. In the end, there is one consequence for my program not being successful. I will be fired. Therefore, my parents will never step in and interfere. This is all that I am going to say on this topic.

"There comes a time when you have to stop dreaming of the man you want to be and start being the man you have become." Bruce Springsteen
Bighit15Bighit155,000+ posts
We can agree to disagree. If that works for you. Then god bless. I don't believe that you made it quite that clear in your first post. Had you done so there probably would not have been an issue. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

It is your perogative to run your team any way you like. I don't have to like it. I don't mind a big ego if the coach is good. The worst thing is a big ego and little ability.

quote:
I just don't think that exhibits the characteristics of sound thinking or great coaching. It sounds like the ego needed to send a message. That is the way it looks to me.


Based on your ego statement, I will stand by that assessment. You feel that it was appropriate because you felt it was. I think their are other ways to handle it. By your own admission your intention was to send a message. That is the way you chose to go about it. I would have done so differently.

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

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