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kandkfunk posted:
Truman posted:
daveccpa posted:

Do not let your son pitch and catch without proper rest.  My did it as a HS Freshman and has had two elbow surgeries since and still isn't the same as before.  His HS coach did abuse him with high pitch counts and then would have him catch the next day.  We (his parents) stayed out of it but I sure regret not getting involved back then.  

Who know if the results would have been different but I think they would have.  My kid never wanted to come out of a game and would never say no to playing.  I think now he regrets that as well.

Have you kid talk to the coach and if his response isn't what it should be then intervene.  BTW I usually never advocate for getting involved with coaches unless a kids health is at risk.

My son's last surgeon said catcher's throwing motion is more harmful than a pitchers.  At least that is his opinion.

 

(emphasis mine)

Have mentioned this before on these boards, but again . . . 

I was glad I learned my lesson early when my son was on a 13U travel team and played an early morning double header.  First game he pitched the whole game and the very next game right afterwards the coach had him catch the whole game.  Seemed like son's arm was indestructible and I didn't give it much thought . . . until after these games walking  back to the car son mentioned his arm was a "little" sore (I kinda think he understated what he was feeling).  Upon resting for a couple weeks, the soreness didn't go away, then took him to doctor and it was strongly recommended he throw absolutely nothing for 3 months.  That's what we did and he's been fine since, though I've watched over him carefully ever since then.

Dads and Moms gotta have hand understanding with the coaches . . . especially those on travel teams where so many games are played in a short period of time.

So what is considered proper rest in this case? Are there published guidelines like with pitch count? I'm guessing there isn't anything official, just wondering how people make this determination. This in no way applies to my son as I haven't seen a lefty behind the plate in many moons, but it might be helpful information for others to think about.

Yeah, I've never seen anything official for "proper rest" for players other than for pitchers.  Obviously, that's probably because there's such variation between positions and the amount of throwing done and how often they  might throw hard at those positions.  So, it's mostly a judgement call and one that should error on the side of caution.

I think for a parent, the best thing to do is to be able to communicate with your child and simply ask how the are feels after a game.  If there's any mention of soreness or pain, then  precautions should be considered.  Good coaches know their players well and can often tell when something isn't quite right with the throwing and will make adjustments to playing time and/or position assignment and try to give them some "proper rest."   It's the travel ball tournaments one needs to be vigilant about give there can be two games a day for two or three days and for a team that's winning the tournament, there can be as many as 4 games in a single day (like on the final day).  If a parent can's be at such events, then there should be good communication between parent and child as to what's going on.  

 

 

"So what is considered proper rest in this case? Are there published guidelines like with pitch count? I'm guessing there isn't anything official, just wondering how people make this determination. This in no way applies to my son as I haven't seen a lefty behind the plate in many moons, but it might be helpful information for others to think about."

There are little league guidelines about pitching in catching in the same game and in double headers.  I did not look to see if those guidelines apply to the older divisions (of Little League International) as well.  That's as close to what I'm aware of as definition of proper rest.  I believe (and don't quote me as my youngest has been out for 2 yrs now) that you can't move from P to C if you've thrown 40 pitches and cannot move from C to P if you've caught 4 or more innings.  Our local summer travel league does not have pitch counts but has an inning count per week and in order to avoid implementing pitch counts just determined that you couldn't have players move from P to C and vice versa - or at least that's what they did the last year I coached in that league.  

Before posting I looked up little league rules and all the way through age 18 the above rule applies in regards to moving between pitcher and catcher in the same game.  There are obviously higher pitch limits per game as you get older but the limits regarding moving between those two positions do not change, regardless of age (in what I'm looking at).    In regards to multiple games in the same day - the tournament rules (for all ages) indicate that a player cannot catch more than 4 innings and move to pitcher "in the same calendar day" and vice versa (pitchers who throw 41 pitches).  

 

 

Truman posted:
Go44dad posted:

If arm injuries are a concern, don't pitch and catch.

Yup.  Some people DO make that decision over such concerns. 

When son was in middle school the catcher got hurt. Son volunteered to cover for him. We made it clear that he couldn't pitch while catching. He wasn't happy, they think they can do it all.

A sad thing that I have realized over the years  is that some folks feel the same. They want their players to be involved as much as possible.

They won't realize until years later that might have been a mistake.

Be smart people  be the bad guys. And you don't need guidelines to defend common sense.

Last edited by TPM

No, you don't need guidelines, but there is a lot of ambiguity when people talk about things like proper rest. And there is hardly ever agreement on this board. That is one of the beauties of these discussions. If someone comes along with these questions, it's good for them to hear the good and the bad to educate themselves and make informed decisions. That is how we learn from one another. Heck, if everyone had common sense, we wouldn't need these discussions at all.

Truman posted:
Go44dad posted:

If arm injuries are a concern, don't pitch and catch.

Yup.  Some people DO make that decision over such concerns. 

My 14u informed me this would be his last year of catching, he wants to focus on pitching and feels he can't do that while in the catching rotation because coaches keep making the comment "I'd love to pitch you but I may need you to catch and you can't do both".  Personally, I LOVE watching him catch but it's his decision.

kandkfunk posted:

No, you don't need guidelines, but there is a lot of ambiguity when people talk about things like proper rest. And there is hardly ever agreement on this board. That is one of the beauties of these discussions. If someone comes along with these questions, it's good for them to hear the good and the bad to educate themselves and make informed decisions. That is how we learn from one another. Heck, if everyone had common sense, we wouldn't need these discussions at all.

Proper rest for pitching is a completely different problem than pitching/catching same game or same day. Or even in same season for young players.  

There has to be someone watching the chicken coop regardless of who is the coach.

JMO

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