when is it safe to go outside to pitch

The cold can't hurt a pitcher as long as he has done proper warm up and keeps warm in between innings.  I can tell you from sons experience going from sunny warm FL to very cold Erie, Pa was not fun, he said his body had no time to adjust to the bitter cold they experienced.

Spring Training is in FL and AZ because there is no snow  and the teams make mega bucks on tickets, selling beer, food, and shirts and hats and anything else you can think of to make their team money. 

37 is cold?  When it's -10 outside and my son's teammates are practicing in a local dome, the dome is barely above 20.  If you dress for it, it's fine.  Pitching and catching are probably the two warmest things you can do when it's cold out.  As always, take the time to warm up properly and you'll be fine.  I can't wait for mid-30's weather.

Well, there in lies the problem, the players were not dressed for it, becasue they were not told they would be pitching outside, so many had shorts on from being in the barn, went back to get baseball pants on.  Once a few players were done, pitching the same coach, decided, yea it is too cold lets go in.

I used to live in Illinois, when you are in an area of the county that gets cold and stays cold you body adjusts....

So if a player warms up enough, and has the proper clothing, 37 is not cold enough to risk injury... I really looking for someone who has an opinion from a physical perspective rather than who is tough enough to practice in 30 degrees.  I guess we need to get some more cold gear.

Interesting...

http://www.momsteam.com/sports...es-pitching-shoulder

http://tincherpitching.com/col...s-significant-risks/

bacdorslider, I felt the same way about the low temps this past November when my 2017 started long toss with the team.  I mentioned it to the coach and he said the temps weren't a problem because he made sure the kids were properly warmed up.  His only concern was keeping them from slipping on the ice and snow.

Most HS coaches are not trainers.... most college coaches are not trainers.... that's why they have them on the staff. 

HS players are not college/minor players most do not have the weight older players have.   HS coaches do not have the time to really make sure that every pitcher/player is properly warmed up and to think that is a fantasy.

I do not understand why coaches would want to take the risk of injury, when you can throw in a barn .  Sure during a game you might have to play in cold weather.  But why not limit the times you have to thrown in the cold? 

It's a fact that the body does not perform as well in the cold as it does in warmer weather.  in the cold the body tries to pretect itself , tendons and muscles are not going to be as flexable.

I just feel that if you can avoid any chance of injury you should.  We all remember the football players falling out in the heat of August.  What happened, the powers that be made some new rules that stated if it's too hot say above 95 you cannot practice.... why not have the same rules for baseball?  

I understand that at some point you need to get outside..... funny after three or four of them pitched, the coach decided that in fact it was too cold and made them go in.

So I give him credit for at least realizing his mistake and making it right.

bacdor - are you looking for a definitive yes or no? Because it sounds like it.

I don't think there is one. Physicians would have different views. Too many variables.

One thing I would absolutely say: It's not abuse.

I was looking for over/under as to when it's too cold to throw outside.  Surely you do not think the boady works the same way in 37 degree weather as it does in 87 degree weather.

How cold does it have to get to say hey this is not productive, we are risking injury, cannot stay warm, cannot stay loose, not to mention the risk of developing illness..

I understand that the coach needs to see his players outside at some point... but these were varsity pitchers, he has seen them handle the cold for years....

Its kind of like this, I have really nice car, I know at some point I will have to drive it in the snow, so I might as well take it out in the snow now and see how well it handles. 

And risk have a wreck, injury... or just wait until you have to drive in the snow and limit the risk...

As far as abuse, that's subjective, you feel it's not, I tend to agree, but the next time it might be considered abuse, so where's the line, just like there's a line for heat index

I suggest you watch a little TV on NBC over the next couple of weeks.  There's a few fairly well trained athletes competing in temperatures less than 37F and not having problems with their muscles or motor skills.  It's the Winter Olympics, are you sure you want to stick with your diatribe?  If you train and dress properly you can excel in fairly cold temperatures. 

Really, your going to compare older olympic athletes with the best trainers, coaches, nutrition, doctors the sporting world has to offer with a bunch of young high school pitchers with one inexperienced coach.... ha

Olympic winter athletes are conditioned for many many years in the temps they compete in, hardly a fair comparision. 

Also, there is a limit as fas as pitches and innings a HS player should throw during a high school season according to Dr. Andrews.

http://tincherpitching.com/col...s-significant-risks/

I would say if they can grip the ball or a bat it's not too cold to be outside.

I think I will ask my shoulder surgeon his opinion.  He should know how cold is too cold for a HS pitcher to throw .  I'm not saying that 37 is too cold, it might be, it might be fine with proper dress and warming up enough.  But early in the season, why take the risk.

So I should not wonder or question the coaches decision, just leave it up to his expert opinion.

Perhaps you thought I was being flippant - I wasn't.  I just don't think that 37 degrees is that cold.  I grew up in the northeast and played HS games in weather colder than that.  I think the fine motor skills (fingers, hands) will fail before there's an injury risk to the major muscle groups (assuming proper warm-up and clothing).  Call me old-school, and by all means ask your doctor for an opinion.  And don't ignore the risk of not throwing enough before the start of the season.

My opinion, and it could very well be wrong, is throw in the barn , get quality work in, prepare for the season, and if it's 40 and sunny, then warm up well and throw outside... if its 39 or colder, cloudy, wet, and windy it's not worth the risk... 

I have read some replies from coaches that state they need to get used to the colder weather for the the early games, but honestly where I'm at by late Feb the weather is not an issue, so we are talking about 3 weeks... not really long enought to merit throwing in the cold to get adjusted to the cold , so why throw in the cold ? 

I see your point about the fingers and hands getting cold before the arms and shoulders, but why do I see schools in the north coming south to play?  It's not for money... it's because they do not want to play in the cold.

If you have the option to throw in a barn I would certainly take that over going outside.  As far as schools in the north going south, we did that because fields were playable and it was a fun trip.  And yes, it was warm.

Yes it is way too cold to be pitching outside.  What in the world is your coaching thinking putting those precious children in harm's way???  I say you take this post and print it off and take it to the principal, AD, school board, superintendent, local news and whatever denomination of church you attend to show them how bad this coach is.  Who does he think he is?????

You know what they should be allowed to go to Texas for spring training (since Florida and Arizona are already taken by MLB).  Go down there and spend about a month getting ready (who cares what your state association rules are - they don't understand either) and they can make the school work when they get back.  That should get even more athletes to come out for baseball.

Anything above 60 degrees is too cold.  I found this information at www.immakingthisupasigo.com where Dr. Velocity verifies that anything below 60 regardless of how well you warm up or what clothes you wear will cause major harm.  

Glad we were able to hash this out.

I think it is too cold when the temperature affects the athletes' concentration.  Generally for me that would be about 45 degrees.  We have played in lower temps, but it sucks.  Especially for baseball which is a less active game.  Hard to stay warm. 

As for the winter Olympic athletes, they have the latest and greatest technology to keep them warm.  And I am certain riding down the luge track at 80 mph gets your adrenaline running so high you wont fell the wind chill.   

I hope you enjoyed your post and were able to get a chuckle for yourself.  I also hope that you are not an actual HS baseball coach , and if in fact you are, please do the boys a favor and retire.  You brought nothing of value to to the conversation except to reinforce the belief many posters have that some high school coaches, are incompentant, arrogant and never wrong. 

If a game is scheduled, and it is cold, then no choice....dress warm, warm up extra, and you gotta play.  For bullpen work, provided a warmer alternative is an option, then why be outside?  Tendons, and ligaments do not get loose the same, why risk injury? 

A very few times just to see which pitchers can adapt better than others is okay, but beyond that, I don't get it, especially if there is a warmer alternative.

Exactly, we have a 100K barn, 4 indoor mounds , nets , screens, and in a bout three weeks it's a non issue.

Concentration is about mental toughness. My son likes playing when its colder or hotter than normal. He said let the competition focus on moaning about the weather. He'll stay focused on getting the job done. The only time he balked about the weather was when his high school coach wanted to move him from position to mound without warmup on a 20 degree wind chill day. He asked to come out of the game for one hitter to get in some warmup tosses. 

I'm not sure why you're so upset because the entire thread was nothing but you wanting someone to agree with you that pitching in cold weather was wrong and the coach doesn't know what he's doing.  I gave you what you wanted and now I think you're upset with me.  

Everything you've posted - on this thread and others - has been aimed at his criticizing this coach and everything he does.  He may be an idiot and worthless but all we're getting is a one sided rant and those of us who have some common sense know to take those rants with a grain of salt.  I've been in education for 16 years and coached for 20 in two sports and I know for a fact that most times when a coach tells the kids something A) they don't listen, B) only remember what they want or C) tell whatever they want to tell if it will help them in some way.  The coach usually communicates with the players but the players don't get it.  I have no idea if that is the case or not with your coach.  He may be doing a great job of communicating but the kids (including your son) aren't listening.  OR he's freaking terrible and is clueless.  I've been around long enough to also know that SOMETIMES parents only want to hear / see what they want to as well.  Once again I don't know in this case but based on what I've seen and with my experience on here and in life you're just looking for validation.  But maybe I'm wrong.

As for I need to retire so I can do the boys a favor I don't think so.  I've coached HS baseball for 20 years and have done so very successfully.  I've sent several guys to college (very few of them had private instructors and the ones who did we actually worked well together) and done a lot of great things.  I've made my mistakes - especially when I was younger but we all do and we all grow as coaches.  I did not coach last year nor will I probably for the next two or three years since I've become my school's athletic director.  But I will get back into coaching baseball again and I will do a great job as usual with it.

I may have reinforced to you and other close minded people that "some high school coaches are, are incompentant (that's misspelled BTW - sorry that's the teacher in me), arrogant and never wrong".  I could care less to be honest.  I think those who have read what I've posted over the years on here know I have a clue.  The boys who have been in my program know I have a clue and the parents of the kids I coached know I have a clue.  I actually have a good relationship with parents usually.  There is the occasional crazy parent who doesn't get it but it is what it is.  

So did I get a chuckle out of my post - yeah I did actually.  The line about whatever denomination church you attend made me laugh a little bit.

Now if you want something of value here you go.

If I had this barn which is heated I would use it for the first few bullpens to help them get in condition / shape / flexibility.  Depending on when we started and when our first game would determine a lot of how this is done but a general approach would basically be start in the warm barn first.  Then as games got closer I would go outside regardless of the temps for bullpens / inter-squads.  They will have to be exposed to the cold weather in order to perform.  That is more for their mental preparation than physical preparation. Even if it gets warm quick you never know when you may have a cold spell sit in. 

But throwing in the cold will not hurt you if you prepare for it.  Wear warm clothing, stretch and spend a little extra time on throwing before you get on the mound.  Also, I never give my guys a set number of pitches to throw in a bullpen - they get a range.  That way if their not feeling it for whatever reason they can get some work in but shut it down before it becomes counter productive or if they are feeling it they can push it some.  I'm not going to stand there and count pitches nor do I expect them or the catcher to do so.  They need to focus on mechanics and receiving / blocking.  You would be amazed how much more work they get in and how fast they do it with a 45 - 60 range instead of making them throw JUST 60 pitches.  Any pain at all they stop until we know what caused it.  

You mean THESE Winter Olympics? (Actual picture from Olympic Village last week...)

Its not real cold in the foothills of Sochi. In fact its 36F at 10pm. For the next week the forecast is upper 40s to mid 50s. I'm betting that pool is heated.

Sochi is a warm weather resort. No one is going to be uncomfortably cold.

That said, winter athletes do sometimes compete in brutally cold conditions. They are able to do this because they learn to warm up properly and wear the right clothing. Nothing a high school baseball player can't also do.

This definitely feels like one of those "Pile on my son's idiot coach" threads I see on here from time to time, where the original poster is shocked that he doesn't get 100% agreement. Is 37 a little cold to be outside in shorts if you don't have to?...Probably, but lost in the drama of the thread is the fact that the coach realized this and made the correction to go  back inside. For future practices, I hope the players make the correction and come prepared to go outside.

There's all kinds of reasons a coach might want to get the kids outside early which may or not apply to this situation; to shock their systems, to check and build their mental toughness, to see which kids (and parents) whine and who keeps quiet and does their job, to create an appreciation for the warm dry indoor environment (and send a reminder that they need to also be ready for more challenging conditions), to free up space for the position players to do a different drill indoors, to get on a real mound instead of a portable, to add some variety to a stale indoor practice routine, to create a feeling of joy and anticipation that real outdoor play is right around the corner...

Baseball is a great example of an indoor/outdoor sport!

I sent you a PM

While I agree with you about mental toughness, there is a reason the professional teams work out in a warm weather climate.  There is also a reason that most northern football teams have indoor facilities, even though they will play outside on Sunday.  I wouldn't tell them they aren't mentally tough.

Coach2709 has the right approach.  Start out indoors with the selective use of outdoor cold weather situations when necessary. 

I never said it was abusive..... but there's a  big difference between a soph in high school and a soph in college, big difference between a hs team and one of the top programs in the country,  and a big difference in coaches.   

people only want to take from this what the want.  I have mades serveral posts commenting that the coach admitted after a few kids threw that it was in fact too cold and they went in 

where this post took a turn was when I started getting posts questioning why I was questioning the coach, and heaven forbid anyone from questioning a coach. ..  I hear alot of coaches with the opinion that it's not too cold, some that it is too cold and the benifits do not out weight the risks.

all this because I was wondering what everyone  felt about pitching in cold weather. 

I never got it.

I sent this PM to a few folks, I was asked if I would share it with the entire board. So here it is..

" I want to apologize for my posts in this thread. I was head hunting a coach and was trying to find any reason to disagree with him becasue I did not feel that he was competent to coach my son.   I wanted the old coaches back, I did not want change, I did not want a newbie. , for me it was all about success on the field, how far can you get, are you better than that player.

 But I have to admit I was wrong, and frankly I'm wrong a lot of the time.

 2014 signed today, so we went to the school for the signing.  When I got in the gym there were the  high school coach, new college coach, retired coaches, coaches from other sports, the princple, the AD, the newspapers, the school video dept, interviews , they made him feel like he was a Cy Young winner.  Then the teammates came in the seniors first the underclassman next.

The AD came up to me and said congrats, then the principle, and the coaches, I said "why are all these poeple here"?  and the principle said well this is your sons family, he's a senior, he's made an impact on a lot of these players, they look up to him and we are proud of him.

 

It hit me like a ton of bricks, I started remembering, the comments I made in the past, " that coach is an idiot" "High school ball doesn't matter, just travel ball"  " that kid will never make it"  there not throwing that kid"  and of course, "when is it too cold to throw outside" etc....

So again I aplogize to you and I am going to apologize to my son, you can only imagine what he has heard... .... I learned a lot today.... it's not about me, what I think , what I think is best, it's about the journey, the realtionships, the good the bad and it's his, not mine.... So I am going to try my best to enjoy this time, because I have missed way too much being an ass and a distraction .