When Parents Get in the Way

Don't know the circumstances, but can easily see how the parents might not be to blame.  They already paid for their kid to play in the tournament, directly or indirectly through the team.  Now they are asked to pay for the privilege to watch their kid play in a tournament they thought was already paid for.  Don't nickel and dime the parents.  Enough is enough already.

Most tournaments announce ahead of time what the gate fee is that will be charge for an event.  Plan accordingly!!

Not really sure I understand the problem.  kids get in "free" and play the game. If mommy and daddy don't want to pay the gate fee, then sit in the car.  Not sure why the umps couldn't start the game without mommy and daddy.  I assume most umps would find a parent less game more enjoyable. 

As far as coach being upset about driving 45 minutes, I have no sympathy.  Plenty of parents I know drive over 2 hours one way to have their kids play on competitive club/travel teams.

Cats:  Problem usually stems from the team organizers, not the parents.  Parents paid for season, team signed up for tourneys, team didn't let parents know that some tourneys have admission charges, parents show up at gate and get pissed off.  I'm sure if you let parents know that recruiting coordinators are at their games, they would gladly pay.  (If the recruiters are looking at their kids of course.)

Golf:  Agreed.

Evidently, when the parents of one of the teams refused to pay to go in, they took their sons and went home. The umpires were left with no game to officiate.

Like the large majority of his peers, this same coach thinks nothing of driving 6-7 hours each way to see players in whom he's interested; and he does it dozens of times a year as part of his job.

However, when he and his peers arrive...whether after 7 hours or 45 minutes...he expects to see the teams he came to see; rather than to arrive and find out that a team's parents decided to take the ball and go home because of a gate fee. That decision should have been made before the team committed to play in the tournament; not at the time they arrived on the doorstep.

In the extreme event that they had absolutely no advance word on the amount of the gate fee before they arrived, they could have used that incidence as an opportunity to tell the team's organizers that $15 was too steep a fee to pay in the future and come to an understanding about what amount would be tolerated at future tournaments. When they impetuously decided to pack their sons back in the car and return home, they deprived them of an opportunity to play in front of what might have been their future coaches over a few bucks.

Just to make sure I have this straight, parents pay thousands to get their kid on a showcase team and finance their physical travel, then complain and go home rather than play over a $15 gate fee? The lost tournament fee is much more than $15. OK, it all makes sense to me now assuming these parents were all hit in the head and are suffering from concussions preventing them from thinking clearly.

took the kids and went home - LOL

that being said the gates fees are a major PIA and 15 is the highest i have seen or heard of. I do think it is an out of line number but to just leave? crazy! if you don't like the fee system stop coming to that event, if enough people agree with you the event will lose the fee pretty quickly!

As a parent who pays quite a bit of gate fees after paying quite a bit of tournament costs it does get old pretty quick...if the event is that good add it to the registration cost!

All summer and fall gate fees were all $20 for us. Yes they are a PIA but it is understood that it is part of the experience. A lot of parents have adapted and discovernew ways to cheat the system, some sit outside the fenceline (U of Maryland) or just walk under the bleachers (U of Virginia). I work in a prison so this mentallity is nothing new to me. I find it pretty hard to believe that parents don't know ahead of time, but I'm sure it happens on occassion. AS RJM said, the cost of protest was much higher than rationalizing the sittuation; team must have been from Jersey LOL. Sorry couldn't help myself.

Have these people ever stopped to think that if their son is lucky enough to play in college that they will have to pay for the away games or that pulling little Johnny from a showcase will call attention to him a negative way.....nope, probably not.

It is parents like this that keep "life's bell curve" alive and well.

BTW...Totally unrelated, did you guys see that Dumb and Dumber To" is coming to theaters!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGXHVlEklgQ

I know i've "almost" been double-dipped at a few tourneys along this 13 year journey but in most cases it gets worked out. My money is on these families being from the South Georgia area....(SNIPED).

these were either stupid parents or flat broke parents.   I don't sympathize at all  with the former but do with the latter, even though what they did was still stupid.  

 You gotta admit that this travel ball/tournament/exposure scene is damned expensive. It's just relentless.  And there is always somebody else out there wanting to take your money.   And we're just talking about one end of it.  There's all the hitting and pitching and conditioning guru's out there trying to make a buck too.  I'm not casting aspersions on capitalism and the pursuit of the almighty dollar. There is a market out there for what they provide and they are providing it.     But jeez whiz  this whole youth sports/college exposure thing has turned into a HUGE probably multi-billion dollar business -- especially if you think not just about baseball but the whole ball of wax.

I remember the good old days when I was recruited to wrestle in college because I placed in the state tournament in a state that is a hotbed of wrestling.  Yeah I wrestled in a few AAU summer tournaments along the way, but jeez it was nothing like this.  Now days even club youth wresting is a  HUGE and hugely expensive thing in some places.  

My 9 year old great nephew competes like all over the midwest and southeast.  And it cost his not very well to do parents a fortune.  But there they are sacrificing other things and chasing the dream of an eventual college scholarship for a 9 year old.  A 9 year old stud, admittedly.  (He's won youth state and national championships several years running.)    But jeez.

Anyway,  I can see how some financially strapped parent, chasing a dream, with their last dollar,  might be  pushed to the breaking point by some seemingly chump change gate fee.  But that surely means something went wrong earlier in the process. 

I sympathize with the parents, but pulling your kids is not the right reaction.  A couple of observations on this:

If the coach drove 2 hours, why wouldn't the travel coach line up a intersquad pitching showcase or something like that for the coach to see his players.

Unless it was their very FIRST travel tournament, every parent knows that there is a gate fee.

Now to get on my soapbox, I agree with nas9005.  Don't nickel and dime me.  I would rather this revenue they are trying to get be put into the tournament fee.  As the parent of a pitcher only, I fight back the urge to say something every single time I have to pay $30-$45 for my wife, daughter and I to watch my son pitch 3-4 innings.  Thankfully, our team gives a break to PO's on the fees, but it gets tiring when EVERYONE is trying to get into my wallet.  AND SUCCEEDING!

Hope that kid gets another look somehow.

I tried to click on the link but nothing came up.  Maybe the kid, that was going to pitch, did get in the ballpark and the other team didn't show up. Maybe his teammates didn't come to the park.

If I didn't want to pay, I would have still let my son play. In my experience, you often know if someone is coming to watch.....if so, even more criticism of parents may be deserved.

I'm in agreement about being nickled and dimed. Highest that I've ever paid is $7. I also don't like the high markup on sodas and water but that is another story. I just limit my intake until I get back to the ice chest in the car (or I sneak it in)

I will admit I might have a little different take because my job prohibited me from going to many showcases when my son went through it. 

A few years back in late July in North Carolina about a 3 hour drive from the house.  It was a ballpark built in the depression as a  WPA project and was a steel and brick rock pile.  Think Wrigley or Fenway on a small scale.

It held about 5K and had a grandstand that went from just beyond first to just beyond third with an overhang.

There were about 75-100 people there all crowded behind home plate in the first couple of rows.  I sat in the top row about 200 feet away from everyone in the shade of the overhang all by myself with a few adult beverages snuck in on a 85 sunny and breezy day after paying my $5.  As I was sitting there it occurred to me that it was one of the best days ever, and it was.

You never know when you might have a moment of joy along the way if you back up and let it come to you.  $5, $7, $12 or $15 - small price to pay for something that you may always fondly remember.  

While we would gladly pay out every dollar that we spent over the years watching our son do what he loves to do all over again, there were times that we also could not afford the $15+ gate fees.  We learned to get very creative so that our son could participate in high profile tournaments, showcases and camps. We were also very careful to make sure that we were getting the most for our money (which camps, showcases and tournaments our son participated in).  When we went to the Stanford Camp we split the cost of everything right down the middle with another family.  We shared gas, hotel room and even meals prepared in the hotel room with them.  There were also times that we had to send our son with another family and just send him with enough money to cover a roll away bed and meals.  Of course we would have preferred to able to watch him play, but we would have NEVER denied him an opportunity because of our inability to pay.

I do think the baseball industry takes advantage of a players desire to play at the next level (i.e. travel team costs $3,500 summer/fall , camps at $700+, PG at $600+ etc,) but if your son wants to play at the next level, that is the cost of admission.

If your not willing to pay the 15 bucks then sit in the car and wait for him. Once the game is over ask him how it went. If your not able to pay to get in his college game are you going to grab him and take him home with you?

There will be a day you will be willing to pay much more than 15 bucks to see him play again.

It sounds like the parents were trying to prove a point. All they did was take an opportunity away from the players and coaches that were there to see them.

Prepster, the parents are missing the true story.

Scouts and College coaches are victims of the weatherman and the tournament promoters.

They have thousands of players to see in a short period of time. When I scouted players for our International events, I learned who to trust, which events have a reputation for forming successful tournaments. The "grapevine" among scouts and coaches is amazing.

They do not desire to "waste their time". During the 17 years of the Area Code games, we charged the parents $5.00 per game. Their sons average a portion of $35 million signing bonus each year and college scholarships.

"Enjoy the ride" and like Coach May said "sit in the car".

Bob

I am not going to lie. There were times that I was disappointed to find out that after paying $695, or some other outrageous sum for my son to play in a prestigious tournament, that we had to pay a fee to get into the venue.  The fact is that they kind of have you over a barrel, and you really don't have a choice but to pay.  To take your kid away is ridiculous, and I would definitely be concerned as to what recruiters might think.  I believe you could develop a reputation of being "that parent".

I spent my fair share for my son to play on a showcase team over the years. When I went to an event and saw there was a gate fee I just figured it was part of the deal. If 15 bucks is going to set you back that much what are you doing playing showcase baseball in the first place? Do you have any idea how much college is going to cost you? Travel to your son's college games? If that 15 bucks is that much of a financial road block for you, you don't need to be at that showcase in the first place. You need to be working your second or third job.

Of course this stuff is expensive. If your son is fortunate he is going to get 25 30 40 maybe 50% ride. That doesn't pay for you to get on a plane, motel, food, travel expense for his games. Your not doing this because its the Dave Ramsey way to get your son an opportunity to play at the next level. IT IS NOT COST EFFICIENT. The vast majority of people are going to spend more than they are going to get in return on the financial side. WAY MORE. If you can't understand that there is much more to this than that and 15 bucks bothers you that much. You really need to consider a different approach.

To some parents,  an extra 15 bucks on top of everything else may indeed  be a really big deal   For example,  I doubt many inner city kids, with single  moms, who can barely make ends meet, are chasing  the dream of college baseball for their kids through this showcase/exposure rat race.  Or if they are chasing the dream, they probably already are working their second or third job to make it happen.   Probably those kinds of parents with those kinds of financial limitations don't expect to take lots of days off to go see their kid play if he does happen to make it to college.   

Personally,  I think it's actually  sad that high level  baseball has become a sport for the well to do over the years.    Don't know how kids with working class or impoverished parents stand a chance given how the recruiting/exposure rat race has developed over the years. 

Inner city kids chase the dream of college basketball because it's a sport they're more interested in playing. Due to the interest and talent in basketball in the inner city travel teams are heavily subsidized allowing these kids to travel and play showcases just like baseball players.

In areas where football is relevant in inner cities the same subsidization exists even though they don't have showcases from week to week. But there are college football showcases now. They're built on the same premise as the NFL compound. The prospects get there regardless of the cost. Its subsidized.

Baseball is also subsidized in the city. There's the RBI program that subsizes teams of all ages. You don't hear more about it because a lot of inner city kids aren't interested in baseball. Also basketball and football pay for college and have a quicker path to the pros and a paycheck. For nn inner city kid without money it can be a big difference maker.

There's no question that the people who are most influential in young inner city kids' lives, their parents and rec league officials, are well aware that football and basketball scholarships are full rides (and about to become more so at the P5 level), while baseball scholarships provide only a fraction of college costs.

"Let's see, which direction should I encourage little Johnny to go?" We've made it a pretty easy decision thanks to the scholarship discrepancy, and it happens at a very young age.

Meanwhile, as a result of the way that we've bifurcated the U.S. and international baseball draft rules, we have an entire class of disadvantaged. mostly Latin American kids who are taught to see the draft at age 16 as a way out of poverty. Their counterparts in the U.S., of course, have to abide by the 18-year-old threshold that takes a player's education status into account.

The way we form our rules and subsidize certain paths to the "brass ring" have so much to do with the look of our major sports' populations at the professional level.

What I do think has to happen is that the players chasing NBA and NFL dreams that are 2" too short and 2/10ths too slow to play those sports need to realize they are elite MLB athletes.  Baseball has far and away the worst athletes of any of the big sports.  Baseball's great leveler of athletic talent is the curveball which is how you explain John Kruk.

For example at UVA or Vandy the two teams that played for the CWS last year, I doubt very many of the baseball players are big or athletic enough to play on the football teams.  The reverse is not the case.  There are DB's, WR's, RB's TE's etc. at those places that are probably 5'11" to 6'5" strong, fast, quick etc.  that would probably make tremendous baseball players given the chance. 

If they can be attracted just to play HS ball and taught how to play the game they might have a shot. It is one of the reason's I have never understood how a football powerhouse in HS can be terrible at baseball.  All the coach has to do is work the hallways to get players out to the field.

now, now. I hate it when people diss the the athleticism required to play baseball at  the highest levels.  Though some positions in baseball require less all around athleticism than other positions, the same is true in other sports as well.  As much as I admire the athleticism of many basketball players,  for example,  I don't think you're average big man in basketball is nearly as athletic as your average shortstop in baseball.  Sure,  you average mlb shortstop couldn't play forward or guard  in the NBA.    But that doesn't mean your average NBA guard or forward could play shortstop in the MLB either. 

That's a real interesting take. Just because you are athletic doesn't mean you can hit a baseball, or pitch one.  Obviously some guys can play at a high level across all sports, but hitting a baseball for most is extremely difficult.

Not trying to hammer baseball players athletic ability.  More of a statement of fact that Baseball players as a group are not as big, strong or fast as NBA or NFL players and that it is also true in college. 

All of these sports require unique and specific skills, Hitting, Shooting, throwing, catching that separate them.  So for a guy like Bo Jackson to cross over he is clearly a generational freak of nature. 

My point was that there are a butt load of 5'11" point guards in America that would make great shortstops and some percentage of them could hit and they will never play in the NBA.  Maybe someone like ... Derek Jeter.  Probably couldn't play in the NFL or NBA, but is an all timer in baseball.  Might have been good enough to play college ball in either Basketball or Football but probably not professional ball.  Clearly his ability to hit a baseball was at another level and he chose wisely.

Unfortunately I think for many baseball doesn't meet their need for constant action and it's not getting any better with the "tools of society" today...

As for comparing athletes - look at Jameis Winston (FSU) - he does two sports.  I think he's a pretty good QB, but then again some would argue he's a better pitcher. Regardless of the sport chosen these days, it takes a lot of effort/training to be the best. Very few freaky athletes exist that can excel in multiple sports because there's too many that specialize in one.

Not sure I agree with Prepster's "generalized assertion" regarding those that are influential in inner city kids lives are well aware of basketball/football scholarships. Perhaps some are, but let's face it - in the concrete jungle finding an area to put up a basketball hoop is a lot easier than a baseball field. I don't live in the inner city, but I also don't recall seeing many football fields there either. I have a hard time believing that an 8-14 year old is told - go play basketball because that'll get you a scholarship; whereas, baseball only has 11.2 scholarships if the program is fully funded so it's less likely you'll get one. I think over time parents "learn" about the rules, but the early choice of basketball I believe has more to do with cost, accessibility, location, etc. than some detailed knowledge of the current state of the NCAA recruiting and scholarship rules.

As for the topic in the OP in general - the "business" of baseball comes with many costs and while I can sympathize with yet another $15 entry fee - the cost of the team, the bat, the cleats, the glove, etc. is guaranteed to be higher.  That said, I am not a fan of the entry fee either - always makes me wonder what it's for...  At least you're not paying for "ice time" and then having to pay an "entry fee" to sit in a freezing cold arena for 2 hours as well after getting up a 5AM to drive 2 hours for the only ice time available :-).  Of course right about now, I'll trade my tuition payments for $15 and 2-3 hours of baseball! That's way less than 1% of the yearly tuition bill, say nothing about books, travel, incidentals, etc.

My "generalized assertion" actually comes from a very specific and direct effort in which I was once involved to try to get more inner city rec leagues in our city to step up their involvement in and support of baseball. What I stated is exactly what we heard from those rec league officials...time-and-time again.

Meanwhile, every one of them had robust football and basketball programs. Their "Pop Warner"-level football programs had arrangements with various area public schools for their practices and games.

One year during the Area Code tryouts, I requested that Student Sports send me the basketball players and football players who indicated having played baseball.

They were players from the Nike Football and Basketball camps.

We select three for the Area Code games in Long Beach.

Do you remember Sam Jones, 6'4 "shooting guard" for the Boston Celtics and now NBA Hall of Fame. I coached Sam in the US Army basketball and he also played baseball.4 tools + the 6th tool.

We talk about his baseball games every year.

Bob

<www.goodwillseries.org>

Do you all think that a teams entry fee can sustain an event.

Has anyone asked the coaches of teams what the actual cost of the events are and what they are charging.  Its not ok to pay an entry fee but its ok for the coaches and managers to make 5-600 maybe more from the team?

Look folks, to get your player seen and the exposure they need to compete against others to get to a college field is expensive. If you cant afford it dont do it, because what you get (offer) most likely will not cover the cost of college tuition and all the things that they need to go away.

Also, if this is an event where your son will not benefit from being seen, don't do it.

JMO

So boys should only play when being seen? What will they do during their freshman and sophomore years when very few events include scouts? Can you tell your coach, "not playing this weekend, no scouts."

How long would a player last using that logic? Not long on most teams around here. We all know it costs to play but the last few years it's gotten out of hand. One tournament in the San Diego area cost 4 adults an extra $200 just to watch. JMO 

Would you have any idea how much it costs to put on an event?  Do you think that the team fees alone cover the cost of permits, salaries, umpires, equipment, field maintenance, etc? No way!!!

Ask the coach in advance exactly how much the team entry fees are.

I had and have no problem with paying a fee if my expectations are that the people holding the event provide what I am expecting, whether it be good competition, exposure or just a fun weekend of baseball. If the whole idea of attending an a tourney or a showcase (as the player begins the recruiting phase) is to have someone see him, than pick and choice wisely.  If my son has been identified as a JUCO or D2 player (as an example), I am not going to spend the money for him to attend an event mostly attended by D1 or ML scouts just to do so, if I cannot afford to do so. Do not send your son to an expensive D1 camp hoping he may catch the coaches eye because you think he belongs there or that is his dream school.    Pick the venues carefully according to how you will best spend your money and how you might  get a better return for what you spend, IF this is the goal.  maybe attending smaller local tournaments may best fit your budget. You might have to treat it like a business, just like college coaches and scouts do.  But don't do what those folks did. 

If you cant afford the gate fees for yourself and family, than send your player with someone else who can,  budget yourself accordingly.   Ask in advance if there are gate fees, but I would say if you are attending a large event expect it.

Do you all have to attend every tournament with your players?  Do you have to attend every tournament on the circuit. NO  Did these folks have to hold up a game because they couldn't afford the gate fees. NO

Use the freshman and sophomore years to play to improve your skills, you do not have to attend events where college coaches and scouts will be watching and the costs are expensive.

Don't spend the money on these events if you do not have it.  Or if you do, then don't b about the costs later on.

I hope that  I have explained my position so that you understand better what I am trying to say.

Not allowing your son to play a scheduled game because of a 15 gate fee is just ridiculous. 

While I agree, I think parents get annoyed at being nickeled and dimed to death.  I'm not a fan of gate fees.  Just include it in the cost of the tournament. 

However, I have not seen a situation where parents who legitimately couldn't afford it didn't get a break.  Heck, my kid's Grandpa drove 2 hours to see him and managed to get the "Sr. discount" -- free pass for the weekend. 

As for the cost of tournaments, I know they have costs but they must be making some kind of money to finance all the new mega parks going up. 

Wow, crazy read. First, gate fees are what they are, plan and simple. It cost money to put these events on. 

Thinking back on my son's journey, which didn't begin until he was thirteen. He went to Cooperstown with a travel team just after little league ended and he was hooked. He wanted to play travel ball that following summer and the journey began. He is now a sophomore in college playing ball. I can't tell you how much it cost to go see 43 games of his freshman year only to see him pitch 20 innings. Don't get me wrong, we are very blessed. I can tell that I wish I made it to all 58. We would get to visit each game and usually grab a quick bite. We often talk about the old days when he played in that tourney, with that kid, who's now play there. Or the night at that hotel, hanging with his buddies. Those were great times, and the good news here is that he remembers(I get a little choked up just talking about it).

Button line. If your sending your kid to tourney's or showcases just for recruiting, don't bother. It's more about the experience, the growth and the practice. If your son is good enough to get to play at the collegiate level, he will. I spent $100.00 the other night to go to a NLDS game that the out come was determined by a couple of errors. I gladly go spend $15 to watch my kid play at one those tourney's /showcase again.

I agree with much of the above.

Let's not lose sight of the purpose of the topic. The recruiter (Prepster's son) came to watch the game, and because of an entrance fee, the game was held up, and someone may have lost an opportunity.

IMO that is just ridiculous.  

Yes it is.

Gate Fee $15.

16 oz. PowerAde $3.

Hot Dog $2.50

Watching a 6'2" 250lb. stud's knees buckle on a 2-2 curveball from my 5'10" 150lb. Lefty.............Priceless!

There are a lot of inner city kids who might be able to play baseball over other sports who just aren't interested. Barry Larkin's kid is far from an inner city kid. But he is black. When discussing the lack of blacks in baseball Larkin's son told him black kids just don't think baseball is cool. Shane Larkin played college basketball for Miami and is now on the Knicks. Torii Hunter's has three kids playing college football (Arkansas State, SE Louisiana and Notre Dame). You would have to think these kids were at least steered towards baseball as kids. But they weren't interested in pursuing it.