When to position specialize?

A few things

1. There is no recruiting until you're a college prospect. I'm not saying your son is not good at baseball, what I am saying is he does not have a single metric or attribute that would make him appealing to a college coach right now. There is not a single reason to ramp up recruiting efforts at this point. What he should be doing is playing up in age at 17u to play better competition.

2. He has to get bigger. I understand this takes time but now diet and weight training are not optional when trying to become a college level player, they're necessary. 6' 145 is small, he's young it's fine, but the goal for next baseball season should be at least 165lbs.

3. Don't attend another showcase that is not already included with his travel program until he either throws 85mph from the mound or is a high level high school level bat weighing 165 lbs. PG and PBR can be useful tools for some guys. Not for your son, not yet. If your son is a future D1 player he's too small and too slow right now. If your son is a future D2/D3 player it's too early for anything to come of it.

Now to answer your question

Be a two way player until a coach says you're no longer a two way. Mine played both ways throughout travel ball and was even recruited as such. When he got to school it was a different story and he became a PO. As for what to specialize in...

Take your son to college games. Go watch a P5 or quality mid major, go watch a bad D1, go watch a bad D3, go watch Juco. Obviously your son is not going to be as good as most of them - he's still going to be undeveloped and unpolished, but is he smooth like the MIFs or is he much much choppier? How is his pop time/arm strength compared to the catchers at the lower levels? This is important because if your son is a plus defender, is smooth and has range just lacks the arm strength or the speed maybe his future is in the field. If he doesn't resemble anything on any of the fields odds are he isn't going to. Maybe his future is behind the plate. Watch the catchers? How much better are they than him?

Go watch and realistically say to yourself is my son talented enough to play here if he has another year and a half of development. Sometimes the answer is no and that's fine. But regardless you can see the level they're playing at and what work needs to be done.

Ps. If he's actually 6 foot, he can easily get 200lbs in that frame.

NICK;

Is Port Charlotte near? Take your son to the Rays Training complex. Watch the catchers, the pitchers, the infielders. If possible, talk to the Instructors and learn of the tools necessary for each position. Check the "reflex" action of the players.

Several players will be only 3 years older than your son. Pitchers should not be catcher, [different arm angle]. OF and catcher is OK as is 3b.

What is the age of his Summer team? Under 18 team will determine his future position. "Learn and have fun". Have you watch the U of Tampa play?

Bob

PABaseball nailed it. Focus on becoming a more physical player. At his current size the showcases will not add much value this summer. He might get a couple compliments but nobody is going to seriously recruit him.

My son was in an almost identical situation last summer. Only difference is my boy was 6’1”. Did a HF showcase and a coach told him almost word for word what PAB said above. My son took the fall off from playing to train and gained 40 lbs. 

My son is/was also a primary C and a P. As a 2023, this is a big summer for him. He’ll decide at the end of the HS season what his focus will be. Leaning towards P but a few schools are still talking to him as a C. Even has a couple HA D3 schools that have said they like him as a 2-way C/P.

Make sure you know how the summer coach plans to use your son. Mine is either going to PO or catch the first game and pitch at some point 2-3 days later. Maybe DH.

If you want to pitch and it’s your best skill focus on pitching. If you’re a position player focus on hitting. Regarding position players most of the recruited college players were up the middle players. So, unless you’re the best of the catchers, shortstops or center fielders you’re going to get moved. If you hit you play somewhere.

My son was the heir apparent at short heading into high school. From 13u to 16u (at fifteen) travel he played whatever position the pitcher came from. He played short on JV freshman year. The coach got tired of balls going up the gap and moved him to center.

Soph year he was the starting shortstop on varsity. That summer the 17u travel coach decided center was his best position to be recruited. The high school had another decent shortstop coming up from JV. He played center junior and senior year.

Freshman year of college he won the second base job partway into the season. He also played some left. The next year the team recruited a JuCo All American for second. He was moved to center. An injury to another player got him moved to short. Then back to center. He filled in one weekend for the injured third baseman.

The next season a Gatorade POY was brought in to play center. He was moved to right. He injured his foot. He was moved to first.

He missed his senior year due to surgery. In three years he did everything but pitch and catch. What he did consistently was hit .300+. Hit and you play somewhere. Don’t think about specializing. Think about hands, feet, agility and instincts.

Exactly what PABaseball said.  Colleges below the D1 level mostly commit players the summer after junior year, or during senior year.

Does he pitch for HS?  Don't hurt his arm through overuse, whatever you decide.

D3s will sometimes let a player 2-way, although probably not catcher/pitcher.

Thank you all for the advice.  We’re doing everything you all mentioned.  We or he has been to 5 UT games this season.  I see the same thing you see in the video… a tallish kid looking to play a game with men in a couple of years.  I’m 5’9” so everyone is tall to me.  

My son is focused gaining weight but it has been a challenge.  Tried to go it on our own but it hasn’t gone as well as we had hoped.  A couple of weeks back I set him up with a nutritionist that is assisting him on that front.  The plan is to roll into summer ball at 160.  Fingers crossed.   I’m also aware of where he stands on metrics.  They are solid for a 15 year old but well short of crazy or where he needs to be to turn heads and get recruiting attention.  No plans for showcases this summer but we’re planning putting together tape and establishing contact with some lower level programs that might be a fit.  

For the above reasons we opted for his class over the summer, 2024.  His travel program they are playing all PG’s here in Florida and Georgia so the competition will be tough even in his class.  He will jump to 2023/17U next summer.  His HS competition is pretty tough.  We’ve already played IMG and Calvary for those of you that still follow the nationally ranked teams.  Played several big programs out of Tampa that have several D1 commits too.  He has started every game and has hit mostly in the lead off spot followed by three seniors.  

He does not pitch for his HS.  His current coach is not a fan of position players pitching.  He will likely pitch next season for the school as it sounds like his current HC is retiring.  This summer he’s C1 and will catch every other game.  On days he doesn’t  catch, he’ll be in the OF and come in to close on the mound.  

@TerribleBPthrower  40lbs is pretty amazing.  Good for you and your son.  I’d be thrilled with half of that.  My hat goes off to you both.  I’m going to DM you for the details if you don’t mind.  If his frame is similar to my sons, I’d like to know how his knees have been.  In addition to his regular catching coach, my son worked this off season with a D1 guy that was in the CWS last year and I asked him about the weight stuff.  Played at 205, but dropped down to the 190’s because it was taking a toll on him.    

@PABaseball  Thank you.  I see the potential otherwise I personally wouldn’t devote the time, energy and money that I do, but I’m fully aware of the challenges.  Young for his class and undersized is not the ideal starting point.  The thought has just crossed my mind that he might be fighting a loosing battle because of his size and should focus his energy on a position that is a more likely physical fit.  It seems like the best plan is to give it another year and see if the weight room is truly his friend and let some of the others around us be our guide.  I’m actually pretty critical internally of my son and try to give him opportunities to improve.  

@Consultant  The Rays facility is a bit of a hike for us but the Phillies are right down the road.  Pitching will be limited to a relief role on different days, but that also goes back to my question of when you should shut down certain positions and focus energy on growing those other skills.  I’m thinking, the body of a MI and maybe pitcher, then why are we spending time on catching?  The reason is because he loves it. I’m sure that he loves playing the game more, but at some point we’re going to have to figure it out.  

It seems like you’re pretty connected.  If you know of anyone in Florida that does legitimate evaluations, please pass them along via DM if you are willing.  

@RJM He’s hitting so he’s not sitting.  In fall for his former school, my son was in the same situation.  Caught a little, but would take the spot of whoever was pitching.  Former team had a history of overusing arms and regularly had his other catcher pitch and catch in the same game.  Needless to say, he wasn’t going to pitch for them.  Congrats to you and your son.  Sounds like all that bouncing around worked out in the end.  

@anotherparent I was uninformed and a little too trusting with my sons arm in the past.  Pitched a ton when he was younger Led to OCD and surgery in 2020.  He was throwing 60+ for strikes at 10 so you can guess he was in high demand.  I was just a dumb baseball dad back then.  I still feel horrible for allowing that to happen.  Had to learn that one the hardest of ways.  We keep a close eye on pitches and overuse.  Arm care is absolutely a priority now.  Thank you for the guidance.  

Feel free to PM. I read someone’s post here about a year ago about his kid’s dedication to getting BFS and called BS while reading it. Well, I can assure you that it can be done. It takes a huge commitment, but it can be done.

Nick,

From your description, I suggest weight/strength  coupled with nutrition is just a part of the process before any decisions get made about positioning or playing above HS.

Your son needs to be with a baseball specific strength and conditioning coach. He needs to become more powerful and baseball specific “explosive.”

College baseball players above HS who play and succeed even at the highest levels of D3 are powerful and explosive.
Hitters have incredibly strong core as a base coupled with hands, wrists and forearms which generate bat speed

Explosion is one descriptor word which reverberates in being successful above HS baseball.

Find a truly qualified baseball specific strength and conditioning coach if your son is truly motivated to play above HS.

@Nick0977 Our 2024 (also 15) is pretty much in the same boat yours is in, just smaller at 5'8 150lbs. Pitching velo is a touch under your son's velo on the mound. He also played everywhere, but it is becoming very apparent that he will be a PO at some point, which isn't a bad thing as he's had a lot of success there and know's that's what he'll be in college (assuming he's still interested in college ball). He has a 2023 HS teammate that is 6'7" 175lbs touching 85 mph that is a PO with his club who will sign with a solid mid-major D1. This young man is an excellent student and projectable, though not as skilled on the mound at this point. 2024 is also an excellent student, but has a more challenging path to get noticed.

Like your son, ours was a very good catcher, but is on a team blessed with even better catchers, so we gave his gear away to younger players in the club awhile back. Found some more gear from when he was even younger and gave that away, too, a few weeks ago.

He also plays a lot of infield, favoring 3B where he is strong, but doesn't have the bat nor size at this point in time (if ever) to be recruited at 3B when programs are recruiting up the middle.

2024 is also a good outfielder, and takes a lot of extra fly balls after practice, but rarely plays there anymore as he is on he mound and at 3B. For HS, he's also been at SS when not on the mound. SS is not in his college future.

I have a feeling that after this summer, he may go PO(ish) for his club, but will be a 2-way at HS as it is rather small.

Our 2024 will likely get taller, and will certainly put on some mass. He'll play at the level that best suits him in college with the best academic fit, and then see where life takes him! Best of luck to yours!

@infielddad Last summer a baseball training facility opened up next door to my sons hitting facility.  My son was literally the first local client.  Spent all summer and the off season in there.  Lots of college kids and pros you would know are in and out of there on a regular basis.  The owner was recently asked who his most improved clients were and my son and a Florida D1 softball player were the two that he mentioned.  Incredibly proud of my sons dedication.  Work ethic, drive and determination are not the issue here.  Overcoming less than ideal genetics, physical maturity and the concept of how much daily caloric intake are.  He also has a nutritionist now that is helping him get there.  In season training is a challenge as there just isn’t a whole lot of time with homework, game and practice schedules.  He get’s in when he can, but not enough to make the difference the off season does.  He’ll be back in there 5-6 days a week the second the season ends.  

Throwing velo was 66 pre surgery in November of his freshman year and a year and a half later he’s low 80’s.  Pretty confident he’ll sit mid 80’s by the start of summer ball when he has time to focus more on his throwing program and puts on much needed functional weight.  

Great advice and thank you.  

@CubsFanInSTL

Thanks for sharing.  Glad he’s finding a way to stay in the game.  I’m seeing a lot of kids at their age get snubbed or pushed out because of the eye test.  Still plenty of time to grow and outwork the bigger guys.  For every Aaron Judge, there’s a Altuve, Pedroia or Betts.  Best of luck to you and your son.  

When i was in HS, way back in the stone age, i was pretty similar to your son.  tall and skinny. pretty versatile on the field. luckily (or unluckily) for me, i had some absolute studs in front of me at 1b, 3b, etc so the switch to PO was pretty easy (I hit well enough but when you have draft guys in front of you...) my main thing was i "couldn't" gain weight. I'd train all off season and get up to 170 ish and lose 10+ lbs during season (30 years later, i wish i had that metabolism/problem).  Thing is, though, i wasn't eating enough, duh!. i thought i was but, obviously, when you're losing weight or not holding gains, you need to input more calories. 

ff to now and my son is bigger and stronger (but not smarter, lol) than i was. i don't control his diet, per se, but i make sure he has good food to eat and stress the need to eat as if eating (and sleeping) is part of his training.  we keep grab and go premade protein shakes in the fridge so he can drink them periodically.  We make sure he has a snack (think pb&j instead of bag of cookies) ready to eat between classes and before baseball practice.  it's taken some work and commitment on his part but he's put on about 30 lbs since the pandemic hit (he's 2023 so some of that would have come naturally) and now is about 205.

as for positions, i think pitcher is a lot more work than a most people believe.  it's not just how hard you throw and throwing strikes but also where those strikes are and what your secondary pitches do. Unless you really love it, it's too hard to half ass the effort to be a good one.  I say this as an old PO who became one despite not wanting to.

also, when my son was talking to a d1 recruiter (he's a catcher in the summer and fall and plays 3rd for his hs team...long story but his future is behind the plate), one of the first questions was "what other positions do you play"?  with the schedule being filled with double headers and early games after night games on getaway day, this school tends to play their second catcher a lot, and they want to make sure that there's a spot they can put a good bat when he's not at his primary position. 

The game dictated when my son changed to a PO. He was a smaller kid and a late bloomer..that 60/90 field and breaking balls put him on notice that pitching may be a path to play more and enjoy the game vs getting out. Everything turned out fine, there have been several obstacles along the way but he flourished, played at Clemson closing most of his career and was drafted by the Mets and is still “dream-chasin” today….as we say on our calls.

@mattys  I’m with you.  Convincing a skinny kid that he needs to eat 3000-4000 or more every day is no easy task.  Unfortunately, it’s the cost of admission to be effective now and to chase the dream of even having the chance of playing at the next level.  

He gets some time behind the plate, but he’s a transfer this year and actually pretty lucky to be starting anywhere on varsity.  He’ll get plenty of caching time in summer and fall ball.  Actually kind of nice his knees get a break.  

As far as pitching is concerned, he’s good there too.  Velo is coming along and command is solid.  He’s been lucky to work with some good trainers over the years and will get back to it when the season is over.  

The question was born of how many 2024’s and younger are being converted to PO’s on my sons team and in the area.  He’s played with a lot of these kids for years and they were talented off the mound as well.  Just surprising.  It got me to thinking about when  it might be time to narrow his outside training scope.  I’m going to leave it alone for now and wait until he decides or a college coach tells him as much.  

This was never about my sons current weight or the fact that he needs to get bigger.  If I had a dollar for every time I heard that, summer hotels would be covered.  Mass=gas

Thanks for sharing and best of luck to you and your son.  

@Shoveit4Ks Love it.  As I try to help my son navigate his path, I appreciate more and more those that make it to the next level and beyond.  Congrats to you and your son and I hope the “dream chasing” works out.  

For the posters of skinny players … My son was 5’11” 135 after his quick growth burst  from 5’4”. We joked with him if it gets windy tie yourself to a tree. Soph year he was 6’1” 160 and a lot stronger than he looked. Junior year he was 6’1” 170. Senior year he was 6’1” 175. He looked more like a point guard than a #3 hitter. It wasn’t until redshirt freshman year if college he was 6’2” 190. He was a pure late bloomer until his second year of college.

The kid has to just keep working at it. He has to pound down the food without it being junk food. He has to drink loaded shakes. He has to be diligent about the weights. My son did this despite playing another sport and getting great grades. What helped was when he stopped playing basketball for the high school. Freshman year he couldn’t gain weight. He was running it off in soccer and basketball.

Solid strength training program and a 2nd dinner at 9pm, protein shake, PB&J & glass of milk go a long way.  If he still plays hoops he really needs to stay on top of that, or he'll lose 10 pounds and hard gains going into baseball season.

Son was able to pick up 10-15lbs each year. He made nice gains with his bat and throwing velos each year while playing a top club team.  As a freshman he was 5'4 140lb. after two years he was 5'10 174lb and finally getting better looks by recruiters as a MIF. Huge gains with strength and speed.  Knowing all this we would have not gone to a showcase until summer going into Jr year (besides maybe a solo showcase to get a feel for it).

Specialize only when you have to. Here is a link to an article on college player measurables.  It gives a rough outline on what you have to hit to get recruited at each level.  I think it is over generous. Even if you hit these numbers it takes extra.

https://www.ncsasports.org/bas...ecruiting-guidelines

If you are too slow, MI and CF are not for you. JETson focused on Catcher and 3B because he is quick but not fast.  Because he can mash he's played 1B, 3B, RF, LF, P and C. He has been recruited as a catcher.

Your skills/speed determine where you can play and where you can't.  If you can hit, emphasis on hit, and field, you'll find a place on the field.

Having options can get you on better travel teams.  They can have one of you to fill in a lot of back up positions. Catcher being a major need in many organizations. Then you have to prove yourself with the bat.

Saying that, only 12 players on a 35 man college roster are position players.  There's more spots if you can sling it.

There is no right answer.  Don't focus on putting a lot of effort into what you can't or won't do.  Not too many lefty third basemen or slow short stops.

Focus on the real opportunities.

As far as weight gain, I recommend using the scale.  He has to eat enough to gain 1 lb a week.  If not, eat more. Pick a weigh in day every week.

Milkshakes with whey adds a bunch of really tasty, good, protein, sugar, fat and calories.  Chocolate, berries, whatever you want to add. Look what milk does for the cows.

I'm no nutritionist but my son packed on 40 pounds in 8 months. If his current nutritionist isn't making him track all of his calories every day, find a new nutritionist. He has to have calorie and protein goals and try his best to hit those without supplements. He should also take supplements, but the more natural protein he can get, the better.

@Bristol.NET Agreed.  He has him food logging and all of that.  Making adjustments as they go and drilling into the macros.  It’s been about a month and it seems to be working as he’s been able to add 7lbs in season with limited time for the gym.  His season ends tomorrow with districts next week.  Should be able to start really getting after it next week.  160,165 is now looking obtainable heading into summer.  We’ve also planned for him skip fall ball like many others have to focus on getting bigger and stronger heading into his junior year.  Target is now 180 for the start of the junior season.  

Thanks for taking the time and congrats to your son for his gains.  I’m sure it’s making a difference.  

@Nick0977 posted:

@Bristol.NET Agreed.  He has him food logging and all of that.  Making adjustments as they go and drilling into the macros.  It’s been about a month and it seems to be working as he’s been able to add 7lbs in season with limited time for the gym.  His season ends tomorrow with districts next week.  Should be able to start really getting after it next week.  160,165 is now looking obtainable heading into summer.  We’ve also planned for him skip fall ball like many others have to focus on getting bigger and stronger heading into his junior year.  Target is now 180 for the start of the junior season.  

Thanks for taking the time and congrats to your son for his gains.  I’m sure it’s making a difference.  

my son continued playing during the summer and fall last year but focused on lifting during the fall. He didn't let his baseball schedule get in the way of his lifting schedule since it was fall ball and didn't "count".  he came into the spring much stronger and much less rusty than his teammates.

@mattys Will probably do travel too for game action where we have more control over his schedule and competition level.  The main goal is to go back bigger and stronger.  His primary is C.  HS team has a solid C and other needs, so he plays where he’s needed.  

We all know that talent without size makes for an even harder path to extending his playing time.  This was a post about position specialization.  Almost all posts were about his size.  Posted to show that he’s built more for MI than C.  Still good stuff though.   

The game itself tells you when to specialize.

If 3B is a possibility for college, it’d be wise to really get training on how to play that position.  A lot of college coaches will put a backup SS at 3B over a traditional 3B unless that bigger slower kid can really hit for power and has a cannon arm.  You need to be defensively as skilled as a MIF playing third.  It depends on the program but many college coaches will put a lesser hitter at third base who is fast and great on defense.

I think if you can it is better to play an up the middle position.

Eventually you will need to hit at every position but at a corner you need to hit more and also for power if you want to play at high levels, i. E an "empty batting average guy" might not get to play at a corner in a high level college or even pro program while a guy who can play up the middle still needs to hit but might get by with little power.

For example in mlb a guy who hits 270 with 8 homers might play if he is a good shortstop but not if he is an average left fielder.

Still nothing against playing multiple positions but if you can make sure you are competent at playing the toughest middle position (CF or SS), because if you can the coach doesn't need to see you playing second, third or a corner OF, he will just assume you can.

That doesn't mean you have to play every game at short or in center but at least you have to be able to play there.

@Dominik85 C1/CP/OF for travel/showcase. CF/C2 for HS.  Also very good at SS/2B/3B.  1 or 2 hole in the order for both.  Hitting just shy of .300 for HS this season.  Not great but that will improve as he gets bigger and stronger.  A little too selective early on at the plate, but has amassed 23 hits with one to go and is 4th on the team behind 3 SR’s.  

We’re setting up his training schedule for this summer and I’m thinking that eliminating MI work might make sense, but 2B and 3B will open up with SR’s moving on next year. HS coach apparently likes him in CF as that’s where he mostly plays.  Hopefully we’ll get some clarity in his season exit interview.  CF doesn’t make sense to me because he lacks the straight line speed that recruiters are looking for, but reads the ball off the bat well and has a solid arm.  Trying to be efficient with his time.

Also has a quite a few 2024’s that he’s come up with that we’re really good hitters and fielders already converted to PO’s.  Not really sure of the details, but it seems early to take the bat out of their hands.  Just trying to make sense of a HS baseball world that sometimes doesn’t.  

Thanks for your thoughts.  

I think it is good that he can play many positions, but C, middle IF and center is a really wide range.

Where do his tools project best? What are his 60 times, agility and arm strength.

Having good fundamentals, good reads etc is a great start but might hit a wall at some point.

In HS coaches will like a guy with medium speed who has good jumps and doesn't make mistakes in center but in a large college ballpark that might not play.

Also in HS coaches will love a fundamentally sound catcher who keep the ball in front of them even if they don't have a cannon arm but at higher levels without a cannon you are likely not catching.

I think middle IF you can play without absolute elite straight line speed but you need the agility and range, just being that "vacuum cleaner" type who makes every play 10 feet to his right to 10 feet to his left but doesn't get to much else plays well at younger levels but not so much at higher levels where those guys will get put into a corner spot.

So question is where his tools project best. This includes development of course, he can improve arm strength, straight line speed and agility so question is where he has the most room for growth.