RR,
Good post. But you did delete some of your original post, which I actually just finished answering too, so I will too will delete your quote as not to confuse anyone, and keep the flow going.
Your original post was my thoughts as well. I thought that it would be good to get back to the topic to avoid any further misunderstanding.
Thank you for expressing it for me as well as others, the first time, even though just a few of us caught it.
Tiger Paw Mom
I think the first paragraph of my post expressed pretty much what I really wanted to say, I deleted the rest. I see you responded to a subsequent thought.
I just would like to express my dismay at this idea that parent(s) have to fit in a certain box or they will be considered baggage.
Quite frankly, I think most parents ought to be more concerned about their kid having to compete against other kids that are all juiced up. Talk about baggage.
I have tried very hard to play by the rules, all along, only to find out that kids are being recruited because they can throw, run and bat the ball all based on false physical measurments and statistics.
If I was in the recruiting process right now as a parent I would be very concerned about that.
For that reason, and after having discussed this with my son, he decided with us to concentrate on completing his degree rather than worry about playing professional baseball...and he is not a slock player.
But we have advised him against taking steroids or other substances just to get a scholarship to a D-1 school or to try to get drafted.
If he can't make it on his hard-work ethic and his natural talent then he shouldn't get the scholarship or consideration to be drafted.
I hope that the NCAA and the schools will implement a drug test policy that before you can get a scholarship to be recruited or drafted you have to pass a drug test for steroids, hGH, and other drugs.
Then I will feel that the kids are competing on an even-playing -field. Until there is something imposed with teeth to stop this abuse, then every player has to be viewed as potentially juiced.
The problem with what 's going on is that it forces other players to succumb to the idea of "juicing" otherwise how can they compete, on an equal level.
I'm sure if I put my son on a steroid regimen in six months he would be throwing at 95mph.
But a scholarship or being drafted is not worth giving up my son's health, nor his honesty.
I think the first paragraph of my post expressed pretty much what I really wanted to say, I deleted the rest. I see you responded to a subsequent thought.
I just would like to express my dismay at this idea that parent(s) have to fit in a certain box or they will be considered baggage.
Quite frankly, I think most parents ought to be more concerned about their kid having to compete against other kids that are all juiced up. Talk about baggage.
I have tried very hard to play by the rules, all along, only to find out that kids are being recruited because they can throw, run and bat the ball all based on false physical measurments and statistics.
If I was in the recruiting process right now as a parent I would be very concerned about that.
For that reason, and after having discussed this with my son, he decided with us to concentrate on completing his degree rather than worry about playing professional baseball...and he is not a slock player.
But we have advised him against taking steroids or other substances just to get a scholarship to a D-1 school or to try to get drafted.
If he can't make it on his hard-work ethic and his natural talent then he shouldn't get the scholarship or consideration to be drafted.
I hope that the NCAA and the schools will implement a drug test policy that before you can get a scholarship to be recruited or drafted you have to pass a drug test for steroids, hGH, and other drugs.
Then I will feel that the kids are competing on an even-playing -field. Until there is something imposed with teeth to stop this abuse, then every player has to be viewed as potentially juiced.
The problem with what 's going on is that it forces other players to succumb to the idea of "juicing" otherwise how can they compete, on an equal level.
I'm sure if I put my son on a steroid regimen in six months he would be throwing at 95mph.
But a scholarship or being drafted is not worth giving up my son's health, nor his honesty.
RAMROD
"until there is something imposed with teeth to stop this abuse, then every player has to be viewed as potentially juiced"
I don't know about others but I take that as an insult to all parents and players involved in the game.
I know how my guys got to college baseball on their own merits as do the kids who play for us every year.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty ??
"until there is something imposed with teeth to stop this abuse, then every player has to be viewed as potentially juiced"
I don't know about others but I take that as an insult to all parents and players involved in the game.
I know how my guys got to college baseball on their own merits as do the kids who play for us every year.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty ??
TR- I agree that I do not want my sons' freedoms or privacy taken away from them but right now
there are too many who are willing to gain an advantage by any means possible, legal or not, within the rules or not, and I have discussed this with both my sons who have no problem being
tested-since they have done nothing wrong.
RamRod(formerly Pic) I admire your stance on not wanting your son to "juice" to gain an advantage. I do believe it's possible for your son and others to reach their maximum output by
natural methods. It just means having to put a lot more effort into their workouts and being very
regimented with their nutritional habits.
It's a whole lot different than it was years ago when guys like Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Clemente could just use their God-given talents and play the game as a game. We're past that stage now and
everyone is looking for an edge to make them better. The question is "Does anything go?" or do we
try to keep it as clean as we can? If it's the latter then we're going to have to give up a little freedom to insure it.
IMHO>
there are too many who are willing to gain an advantage by any means possible, legal or not, within the rules or not, and I have discussed this with both my sons who have no problem being
tested-since they have done nothing wrong.
RamRod(formerly Pic) I admire your stance on not wanting your son to "juice" to gain an advantage. I do believe it's possible for your son and others to reach their maximum output by
natural methods. It just means having to put a lot more effort into their workouts and being very
regimented with their nutritional habits.
It's a whole lot different than it was years ago when guys like Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Clemente could just use their God-given talents and play the game as a game. We're past that stage now and
everyone is looking for an edge to make them better. The question is "Does anything go?" or do we
try to keep it as clean as we can? If it's the latter then we're going to have to give up a little freedom to insure it.
IMHO>
TR
Either people in control of baseball at the High School, College, and pro baseball levels put a stop to the use of drug enhancers, or the cheating corrupts everyone associated with the game at those levels. There is no such thing as being a little pregnant.
There are players being recruited and drafted out of high school and colleges under false pretenses, and I haven't heard anyone making a big deal about that. All they want to talk about is Bonds and Palmeiro. No one is really looking at the levels where the steroid and drug abuse is running rampant...high schools and colleges.
MOC1
I have my son under the care of a nutritionist and a pro weight trainer. We are doing everything we can within the rules to help him develope properly. But whether we want or not, when people look at him they will wonder if he got there "using". That's what corruption does to the game. It loses its "clean image".
We need to decide if we want baseball to end up be viewed just like any other form of TV sports entertainment like the WWE or the WWF. Right now the high schools, colleges and pro baseball are saying that it is just another WWE and WWF outlet.
You even infer it when you say we are beyond the time when only the best "naturally talented" players got to play the exquisite game of professional baseball.
If that's true than we have come to the end of the era where "the integrity of the game" has any meaning at all.
Either people in control of baseball at the High School, College, and pro baseball levels put a stop to the use of drug enhancers, or the cheating corrupts everyone associated with the game at those levels. There is no such thing as being a little pregnant.
There are players being recruited and drafted out of high school and colleges under false pretenses, and I haven't heard anyone making a big deal about that. All they want to talk about is Bonds and Palmeiro. No one is really looking at the levels where the steroid and drug abuse is running rampant...high schools and colleges.
MOC1
I have my son under the care of a nutritionist and a pro weight trainer. We are doing everything we can within the rules to help him develope properly. But whether we want or not, when people look at him they will wonder if he got there "using". That's what corruption does to the game. It loses its "clean image".
We need to decide if we want baseball to end up be viewed just like any other form of TV sports entertainment like the WWE or the WWF. Right now the high schools, colleges and pro baseball are saying that it is just another WWE and WWF outlet.
You even infer it when you say we are beyond the time when only the best "naturally talented" players got to play the exquisite game of professional baseball.
If that's true than we have come to the end of the era where "the integrity of the game" has any meaning at all.
TR
No one has used the "baggage" comment more than you! And I got great pleasure seeing that you were willing to say that maybe, just maybe, you COULD have been perceived (in all of your marketing) as baggage. It is a wish we all make in the dealing with our children and their coaches that we are not preceived like that. I am glad you owned it.
The classic comment when a boy decides it is in his best interest to transfer is he has not done his homework........MAYBE he sees what is going on and wants to try harder to do it right....
No one has used the "baggage" comment more than you! And I got great pleasure seeing that you were willing to say that maybe, just maybe, you COULD have been perceived (in all of your marketing) as baggage. It is a wish we all make in the dealing with our children and their coaches that we are not preceived like that. I am glad you owned it.
The classic comment when a boy decides it is in his best interest to transfer is he has not done his homework........MAYBE he sees what is going on and wants to try harder to do it right....
ramrod (PIC)
You think what you want in your mind--- you still insult us by your insinuation and assumption
By the way why the new ID--hope many does that make for you ?
You think what you want in your mind--- you still insult us by your insinuation and assumption
By the way why the new ID--hope many does that make for you ?
TR
The insult and insinuation of drug use is there now against the MLB and every other player that plays baseball...including our son's. Just ask anyone. That's what all this fuss is about, because everyone is trying now to say...not me! It was Conseco, Bonds, Palmeiro, but not me...isn't that the posture that McGuire took. He just made it worse for every baseball player because now everyone thinks that baseball players are nothing but drug users and liars to boot.
McGuire could have upheld the honor of baseball but chose to be dishonorable. He tainted everyone in baseball with his lies. So did Bonds and now Palmeiro.
It is no different then a child who is using drugs in you home and being dishonest and corrupted with every denial.
PIC is a non-sequitor to the discussion.
The insult and insinuation of drug use is there now against the MLB and every other player that plays baseball...including our son's. Just ask anyone. That's what all this fuss is about, because everyone is trying now to say...not me! It was Conseco, Bonds, Palmeiro, but not me...isn't that the posture that McGuire took. He just made it worse for every baseball player because now everyone thinks that baseball players are nothing but drug users and liars to boot.
McGuire could have upheld the honor of baseball but chose to be dishonorable. He tainted everyone in baseball with his lies. So did Bonds and now Palmeiro.
It is no different then a child who is using drugs in you home and being dishonest and corrupted with every denial.
PIC is a non-sequitor to the discussion.
Ramrod
Read the title of this thread and add anything to it if you can--once again you insult, insinuate and then move the thread where you want it
I am done with debating you because there is nothing to gain from it
Good night Gracie
Read the title of this thread and add anything to it if you can--once again you insult, insinuate and then move the thread where you want it
I am done with debating you because there is nothing to gain from it
Good night Gracie
TR
I didn't mean to divert the thread...was just responding to what was asked.
I didn't mean to divert the thread...was just responding to what was asked.
This thread has eveloved into more than one issue.
It is true that some parents market their athletes in ways that can be detrimental to some coaches but not to others. It is also true that some kids are marketed and due to the marketing, initially have a spot on some college's roster. It is also true that some of those same kids end up transferring/quitting baseball because the marketing exceeded the talent.
It is also true that some parents create a negative or antaganistic atmosphere in the spectator areas of games. that does not always mean they are a detriment to their son and/or the team.
And I guess it must be true that my son, Ramrod's son, and everyone else's son, must be considered to be taking steroids or HGH or another performance enhancing substance, if they have not yet been proven innocent through testing.
There are athletes out there who do not cheat. Most athletes who do use performance enhancing drugs, do not tell their parents/coaches, and we believe them.
It is true that some parents market their athletes in ways that can be detrimental to some coaches but not to others. It is also true that some kids are marketed and due to the marketing, initially have a spot on some college's roster. It is also true that some of those same kids end up transferring/quitting baseball because the marketing exceeded the talent.
It is also true that some parents create a negative or antaganistic atmosphere in the spectator areas of games. that does not always mean they are a detriment to their son and/or the team.
And I guess it must be true that my son, Ramrod's son, and everyone else's son, must be considered to be taking steroids or HGH or another performance enhancing substance, if they have not yet been proven innocent through testing.
There are athletes out there who do not cheat. Most athletes who do use performance enhancing drugs, do not tell their parents/coaches, and we believe them.
grateful
they can but if you have done your job should I think your son is using steroids--- you are slipping into the NET OF PIC-- and that aint good
I profess that as parents if you have done your job 99 % of the time problems dont happen.
I take it as a personal affront that anyone can assume my kids or anyone elses are doing this or that, especially when I know the source of the assumption (POC/RAMROD ETAL)
they can but if you have done your job should I think your son is using steroids--- you are slipping into the NET OF PIC-- and that aint good
I profess that as parents if you have done your job 99 % of the time problems dont happen.
I take it as a personal affront that anyone can assume my kids or anyone elses are doing this or that, especially when I know the source of the assumption (POC/RAMROD ETAL)
TR.....don't worry, I am not
slipping into anybody's net.......I guess the sarcasm isn't always evident in written words. And I know I have done my job and that my son is honest with me regarding the steroid issue. He is a pro prospect, has not used performance enhancing illegal substances, and knows players who have done so.
And, it is not my concern whether or not other players have an advantage over him because of their substance abusing activities.
slipping into anybody's net.......I guess the sarcasm isn't always evident in written words. And I know I have done my job and that my son is honest with me regarding the steroid issue. He is a pro prospect, has not used performance enhancing illegal substances, and knows players who have done so.
And, it is not my concern whether or not other players have an advantage over him because of their substance abusing activities.
quote:And I guess it must be true that my son, Ramrod's son, and everyone else's son, must be considered to be taking steroids or HGH or another performance enhancing substance, if they have not yet been proven innocent through testing.
My thoughts are that with the extensive drug testing in the college ranks, this statement simply is not true. Yes, Grateful, I know you are being sarcastic, but the allogation was made by another.
I believe that until extensive steroid use is proven IN THE COLLEGE RANKS, I am assuming your son, my son and everyone elses son to be innocent.
Hell, I do not believe that it is even that widely used in the PROS! I know several highly visible players have used it, and it is getting wide coverage in the press, but I think the numbers proven are low and even the percentage suspected is relatively low.
I'm not trying to be insulting or accusatory, but "innocent until proven guilty" is a notion confined to criminal law. And, as much as I'd love to believe that my athlete/sons have never toyed with steroids or other performance-enhancing drugs, I simply can't say that's so WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY. Moreover, with all due respect to all others on this board, their children, or their relationship with each other, I frankly don't know any parent who can. Grateful's statement, that those athletes who use performance enhancing drugs don't ordinarily tell their parents, is no doubt correct...even if intended as sarcastic. It seems endemic to these discussions that none admit to use, but almost everyone knows someone who has...it's ALWAYS someone else.
KB,
I agree with your comments 100%.
I just refuse to take it to the point that I assume everyone is juiced until proven Innocent. Yes, I know you did not suggest that but RamRod did.
I will assume that my child and everyone elses child is innocent until resonable evidence of that INDIVIUALS use is provided.
I agree with your comments 100%.
I just refuse to take it to the point that I assume everyone is juiced until proven Innocent. Yes, I know you did not suggest that but RamRod did.
I will assume that my child and everyone elses child is innocent until resonable evidence of that INDIVIUALS use is provided.
Chill
I learned from what I did and how I did it--back then there was HSBBWEB to learn from--I used the school of hard knocksand learned from my experiences--sometimes that is the best way
I learned from what I did and how I did it--back then there was HSBBWEB to learn from--I used the school of hard knocksand learned from my experiences--sometimes that is the best way
As the parent of two D1 college athletes I can tell you that it is best to speak when spoken to. Good college coaches know how to handle parents. It's not an issue. By the time your child is 18 years old they're supposed to be on their own. No parent is going to have any influence on a top college coach. If you want to know what's going on with the program you should ask your kid.
I heard another parent say long before my kids got to college, "No coach has ever recruited a parent!"
I heard another parent say long before my kids got to college, "No coach has ever recruited a parent!"
I want to share with all of you something that I witnessed this past weekend at my son's college which showed how a parent can destroy a kid's chances of playing college sports.
I had scheduled to visit with my son for Homecoming weekend. Coincidently, the baseball coach had scheduled a large group of recruits to come in for the weekend. My son and his roomate were serving as hosts for 2 kids. Other team members were doing the same for the 20 or so recruits.
At one point during the weekend the parents and the coach were gathered in the area around the football field and a parent who was talking to the coach made a statement about the fact that his kid could outplay anybody on the team and any of the recruits that were there. He said it loud enough so that anyone nearby could hear. Later in the evening when the kids had gone off with their hosts the coach walked over to me and said "Did you hear what that parent said about his kid in front of all these recruits and their parents?" I played dumb and said, coach I wasn't really paying attention. He proceeded to tell me and said "I have great chemistry on this team I'm not about to ruin it with this type of guy. I don't care how good the kid is, I'm not putting up with 4 years of his dad." So the father ended the kid's opportunity at the school.
The following day the coach met individually with the kids and parents who were from out of state. One of the parents began to tell the coach that his son had a full ride at a school in his home state(this was a lie and the coach knew it). He told the coach that if he couldn't get a full ride or close to it he would have to go where he got the best offer. The coach told him that he should go where he felt was best for his son but that he would tell him right there and then that at his school he would not even go to admissions for the kid that he would have to get in on his own and he would get to try out but he wasn't guaranteeing the kid a position on the team. So much for kid#2.
The irony is that both kids are good ball players and could have had excellent careers
baseball wise and academically at the school but their fathers ruined their chances. Sometimes it's better to keep your opinions to yourself and let things play out. I really feel bad for those kids.
I had scheduled to visit with my son for Homecoming weekend. Coincidently, the baseball coach had scheduled a large group of recruits to come in for the weekend. My son and his roomate were serving as hosts for 2 kids. Other team members were doing the same for the 20 or so recruits.
At one point during the weekend the parents and the coach were gathered in the area around the football field and a parent who was talking to the coach made a statement about the fact that his kid could outplay anybody on the team and any of the recruits that were there. He said it loud enough so that anyone nearby could hear. Later in the evening when the kids had gone off with their hosts the coach walked over to me and said "Did you hear what that parent said about his kid in front of all these recruits and their parents?" I played dumb and said, coach I wasn't really paying attention. He proceeded to tell me and said "I have great chemistry on this team I'm not about to ruin it with this type of guy. I don't care how good the kid is, I'm not putting up with 4 years of his dad." So the father ended the kid's opportunity at the school.
The following day the coach met individually with the kids and parents who were from out of state. One of the parents began to tell the coach that his son had a full ride at a school in his home state(this was a lie and the coach knew it). He told the coach that if he couldn't get a full ride or close to it he would have to go where he got the best offer. The coach told him that he should go where he felt was best for his son but that he would tell him right there and then that at his school he would not even go to admissions for the kid that he would have to get in on his own and he would get to try out but he wasn't guaranteeing the kid a position on the team. So much for kid#2.
The irony is that both kids are good ball players and could have had excellent careers
baseball wise and academically at the school but their fathers ruined their chances. Sometimes it's better to keep your opinions to yourself and let things play out. I really feel bad for those kids.
Seems like the topic veered all over the place - but from what I have seen the last 10 years or so - most (like 99%) parents dont seem to go berserk transitioning from high school to any level of college ball.
I think most parents are pretty level headed at that point - and many of the maniacs are burned out by that point as well.
I think most parents are pretty level headed at that point - and many of the maniacs are burned out by that point as well.
As much as many dont want to believe an realize it CHEMISTRY is a major part in a baseball teams success---
"ITS" knows me and he can attest to this we have not taken players of excellent talent because of the Dad or Mom or as I am known to say "Baggage"--it ain't now fun when you have those kind of people around
And it is now becoming prevalent at the college level as well as the HS and select level
"ITS" knows me and he can attest to this we have not taken players of excellent talent because of the Dad or Mom or as I am known to say "Baggage"--it ain't now fun when you have those kind of people around
And it is now becoming prevalent at the college level as well as the HS and select level