Who Is The Best Travel Program In NJ?

Based on what criteria are you deciding "best"? Winning tournaments? Recruiting? Player development?

We have played for some and played against many on this list. I will send you a PM, but Tri State Arsenal was always the best. 

Baseball U, Farrah Builders, 9ers, and SJ Young Guns were always good teams as well. This might have changed, but these are the teams I'm still seeing down in Georgia, FL, etc. 

There are some regional teams with bigger rosters as well if your son is looking for more exposure, especially to bigger schools 

Unless something has occurred since I stopped paying close attention it’s always been Arsenal.

Initech posted:

Based on what criteria are you deciding "best"? Winning tournaments? Recruiting? Player development?

Use whatever you think makes someone the best.

There's no doubt that Arsenal is the top of the food chain.  

That said, here's a story: 

Two years ago, I met a guy whose kid was playing for the 9ers.  Kid was a pitcher.  The dad told me that he left Arsenal to go play for the 9ers.  And, further, it was a haul for him to go the 9ers.  It would take them hours to drive to the 9ers practices and workouts, etc.  Arsenal was much closer to them in terms of geography.

So, I had to ask "Why did you leave Arsenal?!?"  And, this was his answer:  "When he made the team, we went to all the practices and he worked out with those guys.  He was always there.  And, he worked hard.  Then, when it was time to play in a tournament, we had to travel all the way to wherever, get a hotel, etc., and then he never played the whole weekend.  Some kid who we never saw before would show up at the field, they would give him a shirt, and then he would pitch the game and leave as soon as he was done.  And, then we would never see him again.  Every tournament was the same deal.  Some ringers would fly in, pitch, while my kid who paid all the fees and was at every workout, sat and watched.  It happened all the time."

Personally, I get it.  You want to build a brand, then you do what you have to do, etc.  But, that's not what I would look for in a program.  Doesn't matter much if you're Mike Trout.  But, most are not Mike Trout.

Beating Arsenal on Saturday was not the same as beating them on Sunday when we played them from 13u to 16u. The faces would change on Sunday. My son disliked their arrogance so much he said he would rather play against them than for them.

My son pitched a great game against Arsenal in WWBA last year and they called the next week and wanted him to come play with them at no cost.  We had already committed and stayed with our commitment.  I understand why teams do this but it is frustrating to the players and families of the team plus the ones they pick up.  I understand it in big tournaments where they need pitching but in other tournaments it is just bad for everyone. I know it is big business but still tough.

My son currently plays 13U baseball in NJ - I can say for sure that most of the teams who win at his age level (and it's not always Arsenal anymore) are showing up stacked with guest pitchers. There are franchise teams moving into the tri-state region as well, like the Canes and US Elite. There aren't going to be enough baseball players to stock all of these teams! 

It's happening already.  My son was 14U this year.  We played in various level tournaments.  Baseball Heaven, MSI, Perfect Game, Diamond Nation, Richmond County, Tag'em, BSE, etc.  And, I lost count on how many times I saw a team playing where they had someone batting last and playing 2B or RF and the kid was a 12U or 11U player.   It was obvious that it was a younger kid and he was way smaller than anyone else on the field.  And, it was obvious that they were playing the younger kid because they couldn't enough 14U kids to play.  

Then, on the flip side, you had teams playing with kids who were too old.

We played a US Elite team in MSI.  Got crushed.  Later we heard that they had two kids thrown out of the tournament because they were 16U playing in a 14U.  The funny part was that the rest of the team was so good that they didn't need to have two 16Us to beat anyone.  

"Who Is The Best Travel Program"

Speaking from experience, this is generally the wrong question entirely.  It leads to parents and kids getting frustrated, and wasting money.

"How can I get my son to 90mph?" should be the question for pitchers.

"How can I get my son to 90mph exit speed and 30 deg launch angle?" should be the question for hitters.

The next question should be "Who measures those results with radar, instead of making me/kid feel good or get to meet former pros/college players?"

My last child, after I knew better, never played summer "travel" in HS. (Of course, if your kid is a top draft pick, that's a different situation, he will have to do top travel/showcases, etc. to improve his draft number). He played D1.

Time is your enemy.

(Most of you won't heed this advice. Print this out and tuck it away.)

I would disagree. But I'm curious as to why. 

What would you recommend instead of summer travel ball? 

In our area Legion was bottom of the lineup varsity and  JV ball. Good players played travel.

Francis7 posted:

Who is the best travel baseball organization in the state of New Jersey?

9ers Baseball Club

All Out Baseball

Apreda DiChiaro

Atlantic County Outlaws

Baseball Warehouse

BaseballU

Buchman Baseball Academy

Bullets Baseball Academy

Carteret Nighthawks

CK's Cardinals

Combat/Scanzano Sports

Diamond Jacks

Elite Squad

Faigin Select

First Move

FTB Tuccu Northeast

Full Count Baseball

Gallagher Sportika Frazier

Hamilton A's

Hit & Run Outlaws

In The Zone

Intensity Baseball

Jersey Giants

Jersey Seminoles

Jersey Shore Prospects

Langan Baseball

Legends Baseball

Locked In Expos

Lumberkings

Mid-Atlantic Red Sox

Mid-Atlantic Show

NJ Axemen

NJ Marlins

Nj Renegades

NJ Select

North Atlantic Evoshield Canes

Pro Skills Baseball Academy

SJ Elite

Tristate Arsenal

Wladyka Baseball

Zoned Redhawks

All Out Baseball is top notch...I've seen them publicize their players consistently and they've partnered with PBR i think.  Their teams are always competitive, but won't have teams A thru Z like Arsenal.  Pro Skills has one of the best coaches I've ever seen run their 17U program...

Francis7 posted:

There's no doubt that Arsenal is the top of the food chain.  

That said, here's a story: 

...So, I had to ask "Why did you leave Arsenal?!?"  And, this was his answer:  "When he made the team, we went to all the practices and he worked out with those guys.  He was always there.  And, he worked hard.  Then, when it was time to play in a tournament, we had to travel all the way to wherever, get a hotel, etc., and then he never played the whole weekend.  Some kid who we never saw before would show up at the field, they would give him a shirt, and then he would pitch the game and leave as soon as he was done.  And, then we would never see him again.  Every tournament was the same deal.  Some ringers would fly in, pitch, while my kid who paid all the fees and was at every workout, sat and watched.  It happened all the time."

... But, that's not what I would look for in a program.  ... 

 

... and so, brings up a very important part of the equation.  Whatever program you get your son involved in, make sure you ask all the questions up front and have a clear understanding of what to expect.

phillyinNJ posted:

 Pro Skills has one of the best coaches I've ever seen run their 17U program...

Coaching doesn't matter much on the travel circuit. They're pretty much there to make pitching changes and set the lineup. It is much more important for a coach to have college connections than to teach proper footwork or hitting mechanics. A coach can be great, but if he can't pick up a phone and have colleges my kid is interested in show up - it doesn't do me much good

If the kid doesn't have the fundamentals to make him worthy of picking up the phone to make that call to a college connection, it's a moot point. Find a coach who can/will be capable of both.

A friend of my son played for the Arsenal 17u B team. They did next to nothing for his recruiting. He wasn’t a stiff. He became a D3 All American. 

SultanofSwat posted:

 

"How can I get my son to 90mph exit speed and 30 deg launch angle?" should be the question for hitters.

Better pull that one. Distance will be about 333' with no wind.   

Understand this before writing that check..my son has played on a NJ travel team for the last 3 years...a mostly positive experience as he started as a catcher..but if you're not an outright starter chances are you will be viewed as a cash cow or a mark to finance lots of players that will be brought in to play for free while your boy rides the pine..

baseball mom2020 posted:

I think a lot depends on the age of your player and what you are looking for from the program. Are you looking for development or exposure or both. Are you in north or south jersey?

If its exposure then look and see which of these teams have invites to the elite PG events. See where their players are committed and how many each year are committed. Is it just a few or is it the whole team. 

If its development make sure you see how many kids have been there for a while and have they committed. There is a lot of turn over and " daddy ball" in some of these organizations. Coaches come and go and come back again.

None are perfect. Have dealt with several - PM me if you want

 

Elite PG events are only relevant to the top 500-1000 players. Given there are over 3000 D1 players recruited each year 500-1000 is a small group. Everyone else better not be expecting anything more than a good time for their time and money.

When looking for exposure a player has to be looking for the right exposure. A D3 prospect is wasting time and money attending an elite PG event.

There's quite a few legit D1 players playing in D3 ball..the reasons vary..I tend to think they make wise decisions playing there...D1 is a minefield littered with washouts..

PABaseball posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

 Pro Skills has one of the best coaches I've ever seen run their 17U program...

Coaching doesn't matter much on the travel circuit. They're pretty much there to make pitching changes and set the lineup. It is much more important for a coach to have college connections than to teach proper footwork or hitting mechanics. A coach can be great, but if he can't pick up a phone and have colleges my kid is interested in show up - it doesn't do me much good

the coach was realistic and has connections...current scout and college coach should qualify in addition to understanding the strength and weaknesses of a player to ensure they hone in on the strengths and work on the weaknesses.  this is what all coaches should be doing.

PABaseball posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

 Pro Skills has one of the best coaches I've ever seen run their 17U program...

Coaching doesn't matter much on the travel circuit. They're pretty much there to make pitching changes and set the lineup. It is much more important for a coach to have college connections than to teach proper footwork or hitting mechanics. A coach can be great, but if he can't pick up a phone and have colleges my kid is interested in show up - it doesn't do me much good

I think the coach matters a lot.  A guy doesn't get the respect of college coaches and scouts unless he knows his stuff and has been there.  It goes beyond hitting lessons.  When a coach leans on the kids to perform the way they need to in college, and to deliver under pressure, it gets noticed.  No one sticks around to watch sloppy, lazy play, and an empty suit isn't going to get many calls answered.

My son played in Arsenal Organization from 10U-17U. New ownership this year. Mr.Barth stays on and does some instructing. My opinion on the Arsenal is this: If you are not on the “A” team, I would look at other teams because all pitching goes to the A team. That being said, if your son loves the game but is an average player Arsenal provides a team for a player who might not find a roster spot any where else. Just be honest with expectations. I don’t know about the new management, but Barth never turned down a boy if he couldnt afford the team. I think Gallager is respected and develops players the best but they are now merged with other programs. I absolutely cant stand the owner of the 9ers BUT that organization promotes their players the best. Baseball U..... Dont waste your time. I’ve heard great things about Pro Skills, SJ Elite, Locked in Expos. These are JMHO’s. Good luck moving forward.

I once asked someone about the 9ers. This is a guy who has been around the game his whole life, accomplished great things, and knows everyone. His feedback:  If I had a son who was playing age, I would never let him play for the 9ers. I've seen them for years and the way they treat young men in their organization is unacceptable.

I know another guy whose son played for the 9ers. He said that Coach M. is very difficult to deal with and he's gone head to head with him on things that he couldn't swallow. That said, he also said his son is playing college ball as a direct result of playing for the 9ers.

I've seen people run from the 9ers after one season. I know others who have played for them for several years. I guess it depends on how much you can stomach.

Francis, I can share my son's experience who played on one of the less prominent NJ travel teams on your list from 13U-17U.  I hope this provides some perspective on your question.  My son was looking for a higher level of competition than could be found by staying with the town travel team.  We didn't do a whole lot of research and chose the organization he played for based on the fact that the coaches had played professionally and that the facility is located 20 minute from my house.  Neither of these factors meant that it was a "good" program and the right program for my son, and at the time we didn't know what we doing.  We were fortunate my son received decent instruction and played against good competition so we felt that we had made a good choice.  My son's goal was to play in college. One thing that we realized early on from reading all the great info in this sight is that we couldn't depend on the travel coaches to open college recruiting doors, and this particular program really wasn't on the college recruiting map.  We were very deliberate and proactive about creating visibility for my son, and because he is a good student targeted Headfirst in his junior year and camps of certain high academic schools he wanted to attend.  As part of the travel organization he only played in one national PG event which was early in his junior year.  Several schools recruited my son, with about half of the legitimate interest from schools that had connections to the travel organization coaches, with the remainder coming from my son's legwork.  My son committed to a high academic D1 school that we targeted, and that school had no contact with son's travel coaches prior to my son committing there.  He just completed his first year of college fall ball and couldn't be happier.

From 15U-17U we received calls from Arsenal inviting my son to play for them.  We chose not to do so, partly because it would have involved driving over an hour to attend practice, and I wasn't sure that the time investment or playing for a team whose focus was on national exposure was suitable for my son.  At the time, we didn't know if this was the right thing.  It often felt like we were muddling through, but we have no regrets.  My son's summer travel team had a decent amount of talent and attracted more as time went on.  There were 6 D1 and about the same number of D3 commits on his team by the time they completed 17U.  I do think having talented players on the roster is important for creating interest for college recruiters (for my son's organization these were local D1-D3 schools).  One way to find out which travel organization attracts talented players is to look at PG commitments as Baseball Mom said.  You might also follow NJ PBR media posts to identify organizations with talent.  PBR in NJ is very active and does a good job of identifying and promoting talent in the state.  They attend travel organization scout days, but only the programs that have talent, and they tweet about their players.

I guess what I'm saying is that the "best" program will be dependent on the goals of the individual.  Even though my son was recruited to play D1 ball, I don't think the highest profile organizations like Arsenal and 9ers would have been the right fit for him.  However it is important to find an organization that provides good instruction and a track record of having players recruited to play in college.  There are several programs on your list that meet those criteria.

There are obviously exceptions (and plenty of good ones) but I try to stay away from the local academy teams. Between the long list of alumni who guest played for them once and the recent draftee who took lessons there when he was 12. I have found they are more caught up in promoting anybody marginally associated with them to bring in new business than they are trying to get their players recruited. The best players on the alumni lists usually play for other big name teams as well. 

Looking at one of the academies on the list. They have 10+ commits listed for their 2019 class. The team they took to the WWBA in Georgia only has 3, one of which played for another team. Just do your research when it comes to teams in general, they have to make their dollar too. Oftentimes they use the facilities, former minor league trainers/coaches, and alumni to try and justify the cost. 

Teams that train and partner with academies are usually a little more trustworthy than academy based teams. Obviously not talking about national powers, referring to some of more the local guys. 

Great posts NEDAD and PABASEBALL.  Thanks!

Here are some interesting numbers:

In 2018,  ~2050 NJ Players on College Rosters:

• NCAA D1 -   ~424
• NCAA D2 - ~227
• NCAA D3 - ~928
• NAIA   - ~20
• NJCAA-D1 - ~22
• NJCAA-D2 - ~100
• NJCAA-D3 - ~217

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

Here are some interesting numbers:

In 2018,  ~2050 NJ Players on College Rosters:

• NCAA D1 -   ~424
• NCAA D2 - ~227
• NCAA D3 - ~928
• NAIA   - ~20
• NJCAA-D1 - ~22
• NJCAA-D2 - ~100
• NJCAA-D3 - ~217

 

 

 

So, 59% of the kids who are from NJ went on to play D3, whereas only 26% played D1.

Francis7 posted:

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

Here are some interesting numbers:

In 2018,  ~2050 NJ Players on College Rosters:

• NCAA D1 -   ~424
• NCAA D2 - ~227
• NCAA D3 - ~928
• NAIA   - ~20
• NJCAA-D1 - ~22
• NJCAA-D2 - ~100
• NJCAA-D3 - ~217

 

 

 

So, 59% of the kids who are from NJ went on to play D3, whereas only 26% played D1.

Francis7,

The information is based on 2018 college rosters, give or take some data issues.

Note:

Based on NFHS -NJ HS Participation

Year - # of Players (# of teams)

2017  - 15,241 (394)

2016 -  16,101 (388)

2015 - 15,269 (402)

2014 - 16,277 (394)

If we use 30% as the number of Seniors for each year. ~ 18,886 graduates since 2014.   

Please note, this is a rough estimate.

I plan to share more once confirmed

Regards

U.S. ELITE BASEBALL is the NEW up and coming baseball club in NJ. A National organization based out of Altoona PA.,  U.S. ELITE has @ 90 teams nationwide, and is growing at an extraordinary pace. Based on their "UNCOMMON STANDARDS" they promote the player in the classroom as much as on the field. This is not a "money grab" club, as most are. I know quite a few coaches and players involved in other organizations,  and none of them come near what U.S. Elite is doing. Check them out at USElitebaseball.com

This is not a "money grab" club, as most are.

Teams are only a money grab if the player/family aren’t being honest about the kid’s ability/potential. If a player gets out of the program what he’s looking for it’s not a money grab.

When I ran a program everyone got to the next level. When my son moved on to an established 17u program every player on the team got to the level of college ball they expected.

I'm glad all worked out for your son. With that said. While most organizations profess to promote their players, in actuality it is the players own abilities that get them noticed. From personal experience,  ive seen "team practices " with over 100 kids on the field at one time. Absolutely ridiculous. I stand by my post. There really are better organizations out there, and i hope people find them. 

@Baseball59 posted:

U.S. ELITE BASEBALL is the NEW up and coming baseball club in NJ. A National organization based out of Altoona PA.,  U.S. ELITE has @ 90 teams nationwide, and is growing at an extraordinary pace. Based on their "UNCOMMON STANDARDS" they promote the player in the classroom as much as on the field. This is not a "money grab" club, as most are. I know quite a few coaches and players involved in other organizations,  and none of them come near what U.S. Elite is doing. Check them out at USElitebaseball.com

Heslel has been around a long time, , back in the 2011 - 13 years, behaviors were similar to most programs( e.g Tri-State Arsenal), just on regional level. There were many parents frustrated with because they thought one thing but was provided something totally different from the standpoint of exposure.

He was a very good communicator, did not always translate as actionable items for parents.  Or the actionable item was to leave his program, find another that would specifically fit your expectations

Honestly cant say I've witnessed anything less than what was promised. Truth is, some kids just cant cut it at the level he has set for his players. Not one program i know does as much for their players as this one. Videos, webinars,  MLB players giving one on one instruction.  Live conference calls with the players and D1, D2, D3, and JUCO coaches, allowing the players to ask direct questions. National interactive training with National trainers.  The boys even trained this winter with Big 10 Rutgers in their indoor facility. GREAT experience.  The bar is set high here. As i said its not for everyone !

@Baseball59 posted:

Honestly cant say I've witnessed anything less than what was promised. Truth is, some kids just cant cut it at the level he has set for his players. Not one program i know does as much for their players as this one. Videos, webinars,  MLB players giving one on one instruction.  Live conference calls with the players and D1, D2, D3, and JUCO coaches, allowing the players to ask direct questions. National interactive training with National trainers.  The boys even trained this winter with Big 10 Rutgers in their indoor facility. GREAT experience.  The bar is set high here. As i said its not for everyone !

Like I've stated, my interactions are based on when travel ball started really kicking into gear around 2009 - 2013.

It was like the wild, wild west, were many were learning on the fly coaches and parents.

Note, my son played for the Tri-State Arsenal when they had their loaded team with Gallen, Scortino, Thasis, Evert, Blum, etc. , they played at level vs play up.   Ockimey, Gatto and some others (including my son) were at age level and grade level on the "B" team.  Joe B. was about that stud team to market the Arsenal, not mad at him but you had to understand who was getting the better training within the organization. 

Note, Ockimey, Gatto and some others wound up doing individual training outside the Arsenal.

As for Heslel, the initial challenge was where would you actually train.  If you were on his showcase team but from NJ, where are you getting your training. At the time, that process was challenging,  so what are you showcasing your individual knowledge or your individual/team knowledge.

Many advance defensive scenarios are difficult to execute if you don't practice them.

Many college coaches understood, the baseball IQ of today's player (feel of the game), might not be the same as when you and I played the game.

Note, this is my humble opinion.

Not to over simplify the decision tree, my kid was fortunate to have interest from travel teams and he met with the coaches or org heads. He ended up picking a team that only promised him an opportunity to start and would advocate for him if he could demonstrate the skills to play at the appropriate collegiate level. He appreciated their honesty and I appreciated they told him he was accountable for his recruitment. The costs are somewhat high but I do not have time to sell raffles or other fund raising tchotchkes. I really did not want my kid to go the mercenary route to save me a few sheckles but it did weigh in on my mind more than 10 times.

Go South (Va-NC). Their non_WWBA events are in the South where there are more recruiters.

He began to be followed while playing for the Richmond Braves National Team (2 seasons @$1,800each), and later picked up by a Tampa Team (no Cost). 

Since the events in the south are heavily recruited (pre-Covid). We would be on the road Thursday evenings.

I-95 and Waffle House were my best friend (Time it so you get through DC-Richmond by 2pm during the week: Sunday's were a bear, but we had to do what we had to do.

These teams didn't practice, so kit may be good to join a local team at an older age (wood bat only), just for reps.

My son wanted to play at a HIGH-Level program and attended UF. He was drafted out of HS as well.

Again, he was not on a radar until he went south.

Good Hunting.