Who Is The Best Travel Program In NJ?

Based on what criteria are you deciding "best"? Winning tournaments? Recruiting? Player development?

We have played for some and played against many on this list. I will send you a PM, but Tri State Arsenal was always the best. 

Baseball U, Farrah Builders, 9ers, and SJ Young Guns were always good teams as well. This might have changed, but these are the teams I'm still seeing down in Georgia, FL, etc. 

There are some regional teams with bigger rosters as well if your son is looking for more exposure, especially to bigger schools 

Unless something has occurred since I stopped paying close attention it’s always been Arsenal.

Initech posted:

Based on what criteria are you deciding "best"? Winning tournaments? Recruiting? Player development?

Use whatever you think makes someone the best.

There's no doubt that Arsenal is the top of the food chain.  

That said, here's a story: 

Two years ago, I met a guy whose kid was playing for the 9ers.  Kid was a pitcher.  The dad told me that he left Arsenal to go play for the 9ers.  And, further, it was a haul for him to go the 9ers.  It would take them hours to drive to the 9ers practices and workouts, etc.  Arsenal was much closer to them in terms of geography.

So, I had to ask "Why did you leave Arsenal?!?"  And, this was his answer:  "When he made the team, we went to all the practices and he worked out with those guys.  He was always there.  And, he worked hard.  Then, when it was time to play in a tournament, we had to travel all the way to wherever, get a hotel, etc., and then he never played the whole weekend.  Some kid who we never saw before would show up at the field, they would give him a shirt, and then he would pitch the game and leave as soon as he was done.  And, then we would never see him again.  Every tournament was the same deal.  Some ringers would fly in, pitch, while my kid who paid all the fees and was at every workout, sat and watched.  It happened all the time."

Personally, I get it.  You want to build a brand, then you do what you have to do, etc.  But, that's not what I would look for in a program.  Doesn't matter much if you're Mike Trout.  But, most are not Mike Trout.

Beating Arsenal on Saturday was not the same as beating them on Sunday when we played them from 13u to 16u. The faces would change on Sunday. My son disliked their arrogance so much he said he would rather play against them than for them.

My son pitched a great game against Arsenal in WWBA last year and they called the next week and wanted him to come play with them at no cost.  We had already committed and stayed with our commitment.  I understand why teams do this but it is frustrating to the players and families of the team plus the ones they pick up.  I understand it in big tournaments where they need pitching but in other tournaments it is just bad for everyone. I know it is big business but still tough.

My son currently plays 13U baseball in NJ - I can say for sure that most of the teams who win at his age level (and it's not always Arsenal anymore) are showing up stacked with guest pitchers. There are franchise teams moving into the tri-state region as well, like the Canes and US Elite. There aren't going to be enough baseball players to stock all of these teams! 

It's happening already.  My son was 14U this year.  We played in various level tournaments.  Baseball Heaven, MSI, Perfect Game, Diamond Nation, Richmond County, Tag'em, BSE, etc.  And, I lost count on how many times I saw a team playing where they had someone batting last and playing 2B or RF and the kid was a 12U or 11U player.   It was obvious that it was a younger kid and he was way smaller than anyone else on the field.  And, it was obvious that they were playing the younger kid because they couldn't enough 14U kids to play.  

Then, on the flip side, you had teams playing with kids who were too old.

We played a US Elite team in MSI.  Got crushed.  Later we heard that they had two kids thrown out of the tournament because they were 16U playing in a 14U.  The funny part was that the rest of the team was so good that they didn't need to have two 16Us to beat anyone.  

"Who Is The Best Travel Program"

Speaking from experience, this is generally the wrong question entirely.  It leads to parents and kids getting frustrated, and wasting money.

"How can I get my son to 90mph?" should be the question for pitchers.

"How can I get my son to 90mph exit speed and 30 deg launch angle?" should be the question for hitters.

The next question should be "Who measures those results with radar, instead of making me/kid feel good or get to meet former pros/college players?"

My last child, after I knew better, never played summer "travel" in HS. (Of course, if your kid is a top draft pick, that's a different situation, he will have to do top travel/showcases, etc. to improve his draft number). He played D1.

Time is your enemy.

(Most of you won't heed this advice. Print this out and tuck it away.)

I would disagree. But I'm curious as to why. 

What would you recommend instead of summer travel ball? 

In our area Legion was bottom of the lineup varsity and  JV ball. Good players played travel.

Francis7 posted:

Who is the best travel baseball organization in the state of New Jersey?

9ers Baseball Club

All Out Baseball

Apreda DiChiaro

Atlantic County Outlaws

Baseball Warehouse

BaseballU

Buchman Baseball Academy

Bullets Baseball Academy

Carteret Nighthawks

CK's Cardinals

Combat/Scanzano Sports

Diamond Jacks

Elite Squad

Faigin Select

First Move

FTB Tuccu Northeast

Full Count Baseball

Gallagher Sportika Frazier

Hamilton A's

Hit & Run Outlaws

In The Zone

Intensity Baseball

Jersey Giants

Jersey Seminoles

Jersey Shore Prospects

Langan Baseball

Legends Baseball

Locked In Expos

Lumberkings

Mid-Atlantic Red Sox

Mid-Atlantic Show

NJ Axemen

NJ Marlins

Nj Renegades

NJ Select

North Atlantic Evoshield Canes

Pro Skills Baseball Academy

SJ Elite

Tristate Arsenal

Wladyka Baseball

Zoned Redhawks

All Out Baseball is top notch...I've seen them publicize their players consistently and they've partnered with PBR i think.  Their teams are always competitive, but won't have teams A thru Z like Arsenal.  Pro Skills has one of the best coaches I've ever seen run their 17U program...

Francis7 posted:

There's no doubt that Arsenal is the top of the food chain.  

That said, here's a story: 

...So, I had to ask "Why did you leave Arsenal?!?"  And, this was his answer:  "When he made the team, we went to all the practices and he worked out with those guys.  He was always there.  And, he worked hard.  Then, when it was time to play in a tournament, we had to travel all the way to wherever, get a hotel, etc., and then he never played the whole weekend.  Some kid who we never saw before would show up at the field, they would give him a shirt, and then he would pitch the game and leave as soon as he was done.  And, then we would never see him again.  Every tournament was the same deal.  Some ringers would fly in, pitch, while my kid who paid all the fees and was at every workout, sat and watched.  It happened all the time."

... But, that's not what I would look for in a program.  ... 

 

... and so, brings up a very important part of the equation.  Whatever program you get your son involved in, make sure you ask all the questions up front and have a clear understanding of what to expect.

phillyinNJ posted:

 Pro Skills has one of the best coaches I've ever seen run their 17U program...

Coaching doesn't matter much on the travel circuit. They're pretty much there to make pitching changes and set the lineup. It is much more important for a coach to have college connections than to teach proper footwork or hitting mechanics. A coach can be great, but if he can't pick up a phone and have colleges my kid is interested in show up - it doesn't do me much good

If the kid doesn't have the fundamentals to make him worthy of picking up the phone to make that call to a college connection, it's a moot point. Find a coach who can/will be capable of both.

A friend of my son played for the Arsenal 17u B team. They did next to nothing for his recruiting. He wasn’t a stiff. He became a D3 All American. 

SultanofSwat posted:

 

"How can I get my son to 90mph exit speed and 30 deg launch angle?" should be the question for hitters.

Better pull that one. Distance will be about 333' with no wind.   

Understand this before writing that check..my son has played on a NJ travel team for the last 3 years...a mostly positive experience as he started as a catcher..but if you're not an outright starter chances are you will be viewed as a cash cow or a mark to finance lots of players that will be brought in to play for free while your boy rides the pine..

baseball mom2020 posted:

I think a lot depends on the age of your player and what you are looking for from the program. Are you looking for development or exposure or both. Are you in north or south jersey?

If its exposure then look and see which of these teams have invites to the elite PG events. See where their players are committed and how many each year are committed. Is it just a few or is it the whole team. 

If its development make sure you see how many kids have been there for a while and have they committed. There is a lot of turn over and " daddy ball" in some of these organizations. Coaches come and go and come back again.

None are perfect. Have dealt with several - PM me if you want

 

Elite PG events are only relevant to the top 500-1000 players. Given there are over 3000 D1 players recruited each year 500-1000 is a small group. Everyone else better not be expecting anything more than a good time for their time and money.

When looking for exposure a player has to be looking for the right exposure. A D3 prospect is wasting time and money attending an elite PG event.

There's quite a few legit D1 players playing in D3 ball..the reasons vary..I tend to think they make wise decisions playing there...D1 is a minefield littered with washouts..

PABaseball posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

 Pro Skills has one of the best coaches I've ever seen run their 17U program...

Coaching doesn't matter much on the travel circuit. They're pretty much there to make pitching changes and set the lineup. It is much more important for a coach to have college connections than to teach proper footwork or hitting mechanics. A coach can be great, but if he can't pick up a phone and have colleges my kid is interested in show up - it doesn't do me much good

the coach was realistic and has connections...current scout and college coach should qualify in addition to understanding the strength and weaknesses of a player to ensure they hone in on the strengths and work on the weaknesses.  this is what all coaches should be doing.

PABaseball posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

 Pro Skills has one of the best coaches I've ever seen run their 17U program...

Coaching doesn't matter much on the travel circuit. They're pretty much there to make pitching changes and set the lineup. It is much more important for a coach to have college connections than to teach proper footwork or hitting mechanics. A coach can be great, but if he can't pick up a phone and have colleges my kid is interested in show up - it doesn't do me much good

I think the coach matters a lot.  A guy doesn't get the respect of college coaches and scouts unless he knows his stuff and has been there.  It goes beyond hitting lessons.  When a coach leans on the kids to perform the way they need to in college, and to deliver under pressure, it gets noticed.  No one sticks around to watch sloppy, lazy play, and an empty suit isn't going to get many calls answered.

My son played in Arsenal Organization from 10U-17U. New ownership this year. Mr.Barth stays on and does some instructing. My opinion on the Arsenal is this: If you are not on the “A” team, I would look at other teams because all pitching goes to the A team. That being said, if your son loves the game but is an average player Arsenal provides a team for a player who might not find a roster spot any where else. Just be honest with expectations. I don’t know about the new management, but Barth never turned down a boy if he couldnt afford the team. I think Gallager is respected and develops players the best but they are now merged with other programs. I absolutely cant stand the owner of the 9ers BUT that organization promotes their players the best. Baseball U..... Dont waste your time. I’ve heard great things about Pro Skills, SJ Elite, Locked in Expos. These are JMHO’s. Good luck moving forward.

I once asked someone about the 9ers. This is a guy who has been around the game his whole life, accomplished great things, and knows everyone. His feedback:  If I had a son who was playing age, I would never let him play for the 9ers. I've seen them for years and the way they treat young men in their organization is unacceptable.

I know another guy whose son played for the 9ers. He said that Coach M. is very difficult to deal with and he's gone head to head with him on things that he couldn't swallow. That said, he also said his son is playing college ball as a direct result of playing for the 9ers.

I've seen people run from the 9ers after one season. I know others who have played for them for several years. I guess it depends on how much you can stomach.

Francis, I can share my son's experience who played on one of the less prominent NJ travel teams on your list from 13U-17U.  I hope this provides some perspective on your question.  My son was looking for a higher level of competition than could be found by staying with the town travel team.  We didn't do a whole lot of research and chose the organization he played for based on the fact that the coaches had played professionally and that the facility is located 20 minute from my house.  Neither of these factors meant that it was a "good" program and the right program for my son, and at the time we didn't know what we doing.  We were fortunate my son received decent instruction and played against good competition so we felt that we had made a good choice.  My son's goal was to play in college. One thing that we realized early on from reading all the great info in this sight is that we couldn't depend on the travel coaches to open college recruiting doors, and this particular program really wasn't on the college recruiting map.  We were very deliberate and proactive about creating visibility for my son, and because he is a good student targeted Headfirst in his junior year and camps of certain high academic schools he wanted to attend.  As part of the travel organization he only played in one national PG event which was early in his junior year.  Several schools recruited my son, with about half of the legitimate interest from schools that had connections to the travel organization coaches, with the remainder coming from my son's legwork.  My son committed to a high academic D1 school that we targeted, and that school had no contact with son's travel coaches prior to my son committing there.  He just completed his first year of college fall ball and couldn't be happier.

From 15U-17U we received calls from Arsenal inviting my son to play for them.  We chose not to do so, partly because it would have involved driving over an hour to attend practice, and I wasn't sure that the time investment or playing for a team whose focus was on national exposure was suitable for my son.  At the time, we didn't know if this was the right thing.  It often felt like we were muddling through, but we have no regrets.  My son's summer travel team had a decent amount of talent and attracted more as time went on.  There were 6 D1 and about the same number of D3 commits on his team by the time they completed 17U.  I do think having talented players on the roster is important for creating interest for college recruiters (for my son's organization these were local D1-D3 schools).  One way to find out which travel organization attracts talented players is to look at PG commitments as Baseball Mom said.  You might also follow NJ PBR media posts to identify organizations with talent.  PBR in NJ is very active and does a good job of identifying and promoting talent in the state.  They attend travel organization scout days, but only the programs that have talent, and they tweet about their players.

I guess what I'm saying is that the "best" program will be dependent on the goals of the individual.  Even though my son was recruited to play D1 ball, I don't think the highest profile organizations like Arsenal and 9ers would have been the right fit for him.  However it is important to find an organization that provides good instruction and a track record of having players recruited to play in college.  There are several programs on your list that meet those criteria.

There are obviously exceptions (and plenty of good ones) but I try to stay away from the local academy teams. Between the long list of alumni who guest played for them once and the recent draftee who took lessons there when he was 12. I have found they are more caught up in promoting anybody marginally associated with them to bring in new business than they are trying to get their players recruited. The best players on the alumni lists usually play for other big name teams as well. 

Looking at one of the academies on the list. They have 10+ commits listed for their 2019 class. The team they took to the WWBA in Georgia only has 3, one of which played for another team. Just do your research when it comes to teams in general, they have to make their dollar too. Oftentimes they use the facilities, former minor league trainers/coaches, and alumni to try and justify the cost. 

Teams that train and partner with academies are usually a little more trustworthy than academy based teams. Obviously not talking about national powers, referring to some of more the local guys. 

Great posts NEDAD and PABASEBALL.  Thanks!

Here are some interesting numbers:

In 2018,  ~2050 NJ Players on College Rosters:

• NCAA D1 -   ~424
• NCAA D2 - ~227
• NCAA D3 - ~928
• NAIA   - ~20
• NJCAA-D1 - ~22
• NJCAA-D2 - ~100
• NJCAA-D3 - ~217

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

Here are some interesting numbers:

In 2018,  ~2050 NJ Players on College Rosters:

• NCAA D1 -   ~424
• NCAA D2 - ~227
• NCAA D3 - ~928
• NAIA   - ~20
• NJCAA-D1 - ~22
• NJCAA-D2 - ~100
• NJCAA-D3 - ~217

 

 

 

So, 59% of the kids who are from NJ went on to play D3, whereas only 26% played D1.

Francis7 posted:

CollegebaseballInsights posted:

Here are some interesting numbers:

In 2018,  ~2050 NJ Players on College Rosters:

• NCAA D1 -   ~424
• NCAA D2 - ~227
• NCAA D3 - ~928
• NAIA   - ~20
• NJCAA-D1 - ~22
• NJCAA-D2 - ~100
• NJCAA-D3 - ~217

 

 

 

So, 59% of the kids who are from NJ went on to play D3, whereas only 26% played D1.

Francis7,

The information is based on 2018 college rosters, give or take some data issues.

Note:

Based on NFHS -NJ HS Participation

Year - # of Players (# of teams)

2017  - 15,241 (394)

2016 -  16,101 (388)

2015 - 15,269 (402)

2014 - 16,277 (394)

If we use 30% as the number of Seniors for each year. ~ 18,886 graduates since 2014.   

Please note, this is a rough estimate.

I plan to share more once confirmed

Regards

U.S. ELITE BASEBALL is the NEW up and coming baseball club in NJ. A National organization based out of Altoona PA.,  U.S. ELITE has @ 90 teams nationwide, and is growing at an extraordinary pace. Based on their "UNCOMMON STANDARDS" they promote the player in the classroom as much as on the field. This is not a "money grab" club, as most are. I know quite a few coaches and players involved in other organizations,  and none of them come near what U.S. Elite is doing. Check them out at USElitebaseball.com

This is not a "money grab" club, as most are.

Teams are only a money grab if the player/family aren’t being honest about the kid’s ability/potential. If a player gets out of the program what he’s looking for it’s not a money grab.

When I ran a program everyone got to the next level. When my son moved on to an established 17u program every player on the team got to the level of college ball they expected.

I'm glad all worked out for your son. With that said. While most organizations profess to promote their players, in actuality it is the players own abilities that get them noticed. From personal experience,  ive seen "team practices " with over 100 kids on the field at one time. Absolutely ridiculous. I stand by my post. There really are better organizations out there, and i hope people find them. 

@Baseball59 posted:

U.S. ELITE BASEBALL is the NEW up and coming baseball club in NJ. A National organization based out of Altoona PA.,  U.S. ELITE has @ 90 teams nationwide, and is growing at an extraordinary pace. Based on their "UNCOMMON STANDARDS" they promote the player in the classroom as much as on the field. This is not a "money grab" club, as most are. I know quite a few coaches and players involved in other organizations,  and none of them come near what U.S. Elite is doing. Check them out at USElitebaseball.com

Heslel has been around a long time, , back in the 2011 - 13 years, behaviors were similar to most programs( e.g Tri-State Arsenal), just on regional level. There were many parents frustrated with because they thought one thing but was provided something totally different from the standpoint of exposure.

He was a very good communicator, did not always translate as actionable items for parents.  Or the actionable item was to leave his program, find another that would specifically fit your expectations

Honestly cant say I've witnessed anything less than what was promised. Truth is, some kids just cant cut it at the level he has set for his players. Not one program i know does as much for their players as this one. Videos, webinars,  MLB players giving one on one instruction.  Live conference calls with the players and D1, D2, D3, and JUCO coaches, allowing the players to ask direct questions. National interactive training with National trainers.  The boys even trained this winter with Big 10 Rutgers in their indoor facility. GREAT experience.  The bar is set high here. As i said its not for everyone !

@Baseball59 posted:

Honestly cant say I've witnessed anything less than what was promised. Truth is, some kids just cant cut it at the level he has set for his players. Not one program i know does as much for their players as this one. Videos, webinars,  MLB players giving one on one instruction.  Live conference calls with the players and D1, D2, D3, and JUCO coaches, allowing the players to ask direct questions. National interactive training with National trainers.  The boys even trained this winter with Big 10 Rutgers in their indoor facility. GREAT experience.  The bar is set high here. As i said its not for everyone !

Like I've stated, my interactions are based on when travel ball started really kicking into gear around 2009 - 2013.

It was like the wild, wild west, were many were learning on the fly coaches and parents.

Note, my son played for the Tri-State Arsenal when they had their loaded team with Gallen, Scortino, Thasis, Evert, Blum, etc. , they played at level vs play up.   Ockimey, Gatto and some others (including my son) were at age level and grade level on the "B" team.  Joe B. was about that stud team to market the Arsenal, not mad at him but you had to understand who was getting the better training within the organization. 

Note, Ockimey, Gatto and some others wound up doing individual training outside the Arsenal.

As for Heslel, the initial challenge was where would you actually train.  If you were on his showcase team but from NJ, where are you getting your training. At the time, that process was challenging,  so what are you showcasing your individual knowledge or your individual/team knowledge.

Many advance defensive scenarios are difficult to execute if you don't practice them.

Many college coaches understood, the baseball IQ of today's player (feel of the game), might not be the same as when you and I played the game.

Note, this is my humble opinion.

Not to over simplify the decision tree, my kid was fortunate to have interest from travel teams and he met with the coaches or org heads. He ended up picking a team that only promised him an opportunity to start and would advocate for him if he could demonstrate the skills to play at the appropriate collegiate level. He appreciated their honesty and I appreciated they told him he was accountable for his recruitment. The costs are somewhat high but I do not have time to sell raffles or other fund raising tchotchkes. I really did not want my kid to go the mercenary route to save me a few sheckles but it did weigh in on my mind more than 10 times.

Go South (Va-NC). Their non_WWBA events are in the South where there are more recruiters.

He began to be followed while playing for the Richmond Braves National Team (2 seasons @$1,800each), and later picked up by a Tampa Team (no Cost). 

Since the events in the south are heavily recruited (pre-Covid). We would be on the road Thursday evenings.

I-95 and Waffle House were my best friend (Time it so you get through DC-Richmond by 2pm during the week: Sunday's were a bear, but we had to do what we had to do.

These teams didn't practice, so kit may be good to join a local team at an older age (wood bat only), just for reps.

My son wanted to play at a HIGH-Level program and attended UF. He was drafted out of HS as well.

Again, he was not on a radar until he went south.

Good Hunting.

@2022NYC posted:

Not to over simplify the decision tree, my kid was fortunate to have interest from travel teams and he met with the coaches or org heads. He ended up picking a team that only promised him an opportunity to start and would advocate for him if he could demonstrate the skills to play at the appropriate collegiate level. He appreciated their honesty and I appreciated they told him he was accountable for his recruitment. The costs are somewhat high but I do not have time to sell raffles or other fund raising tchotchkes. I really did not want my kid to go the mercenary route to save me a few sheckles but it did weigh in on my mind more than 10 times.

Agreed.  Everybody has some interesting stories. Again, our experience in the NJ and PA travel ball scene was not that uncommon.

I think Heslel has enhanced his business model.  From my perspective, the true measure of a travel program will be "What percentage of players that you've placed at school xyz, stayed at school xyz for zzz number of years.

Note, there are some variables that are not in anybody's control, but there are some insights that a travel program will have about college baseball programs.

THIS IS GREAT CONVERSATION  !! i appreciate everyone's feedback. My 17 y/o, a 6'8" RHP, throwing in the low 90's got himself into a D1 school by himself. He played for 2 highly touted NJ programs who did absolutely nothing to promote him. Fortunately i had a couple contacts with an MLB team (scouts) who invited him to a showcase. He walked away as their #1 pitcher. 2 months later, the day before his 17th birthday, he had a tryout with their MLB team. He was 1 of only 3 that was recorded. All his stats taken, and offered another tryout after he turns 18. Since then, another West Coast MLB has contacted him. Yes, playing in Marietta. Ft. Myers. And Jupiter all help, but any team can sign up. It takes a great organization to develop and promote talent. AGAIN, THANKS FOR THE GREAT INPUT

@Baseball59 posted:

THIS IS GREAT CONVERSATION  !! i appreciate everyone's feedback. My 17 y/o, a 6'8" RHP, throwing in the low 90's got himself into a D1 school by himself. He played for 2 highly touted NJ programs who did absolutely nothing to promote him. Fortunately i had a couple contacts with an MLB team (scouts) who invited him to a showcase. He walked away as their #1 pitcher. 2 months later, the day before his 17th birthday, he had a tryout with their MLB team. He was 1 of only 3 that was recorded. All his stats taken, and offered another tryout after he turns 18. Since then, another West Coast MLB has contacted him. Yes, playing in Marietta. Ft. Myers. And Jupiter all help, but any team can sign up. It takes a great organization to develop and promote talent. AGAIN, THANKS FOR THE GREAT INPUT

I don't want to seem dismissive of the hard work your kid put in to get the metrics. But from a recruiting perspective I would think being 6'8" and throwing 90s make it easier to consider than the under 6 ft kid hovering mid to upper 80s.

Agreed, anyone above 90 is going to get more looks. anyone. Adding the 6'8" is a super bonus and makes recruiting even easier. That's awesome. Congrats!!  

To get back on topic of Best Travel Program, I would echo what others have said. It's the best team you can get on, play, and have a coaching staff with connections to have colleges coaches on the other end pick up the phone. A lot will say they can do that or show you pictures of them with Tim Corbin or whatever, but those that can help with the connections and evaluations at the next level is your best bet. You don't have to travel all over, if you can get in front of the right scouts, and coaches, at the right time.

For us, our Local (Austin) Travel Team (Regional travel to Dallas, Houston and occasional GA or AZ) could do just that. However, my son wanted to get out of Texas and since this team barely left the state, that made it difficult. We ended up taking weekends off to go attend camps (Duke/UNC) and landing on East Cobb Astros in the Fall as he wanted to go to Ft Meyers and Jupiter for both Fall WWBAs and our local team wasn't able to field a team to go.  HUGE gamechanger to get East, for him.  We're sticking with the East Cobb Astros this summer and fall. 

Get a good video and a good profile and shop around. We sent my son's baseball profile (I've posted about it here and shared example), with information, coach's contact, metrics, links to videos and tweet urls for awards, etc. to the top Teams in the country and because he was throwing 90 at the time, was invited to play with Team Elite and East Cobb. East Cobb has been phenomenal, better connections and conversations with coaches and scouts. Way quicker turn around and promotion. Again, it helps to throw 90-91 in Ft Meyers and 92 and a perfect game in Jupiter,  as a Junior, and that caused the phone to blow up, but he couldn't have done that if he couldn't have been there and played.

Know your range of play and go after it. Lots of choices to play at the next level, D1-3, Juco, NAIA, etc. All great experiences and prep. Having a coach or program that will realistically put you in touch with the appropriate programs, at the right time, is huge and that is what makes them the Best, for you.

While playing in a 14u tournament with a long break I stopped to watch part of a 10u Arsenal game. I chatted with a circle of six Arsenal dads. They believed every 10u player on that team was going to play D1 and turn pro someday. At that level Arsenal sells the dream. 

I became friends with an Arsenal dad in my son’s age group from all the times the teams competed. When our boys were playing against each other in 17u he told me there were only four holdovers from the 13u A team. Everyone else had been cut along the way. 

Thats a shame, but honestly it is no different than any college team or pro team. Only the best will play. Unfortunately, todays society has babied kids to the point that they think it is their RIGHT to play on elite teams. Why do you think coaches have tryouts ? They want the best for their respective teams/organizations. 

In the preteen years the promotion should be let’s learn how to play the game properly, learn to compete and see where we are when the kids reach puberty. Leave the dreaming to the kids. However, I do understand the avenue to dad’s wallet is paved through his delusions, err dreams for his kid. 

@Baseball59 posted:

Thats a shame, but honestly it is no different than any college team or pro team. Only the best will play. Unfortunately, todays society has babied kids to the point that they think it is their RIGHT to play on elite teams. Why do you think coaches have tryouts ? They want the best for their respective teams/organizations. 

Actually, no  things might have changed, in 2010-12, the Arsenal had 3 or 4 team per age level, per money grab.

Age groups were based on April 30th cut off.

There top teams at each age group had what some people might call ringers, those players based on Malcolm Gladwell's book "The Outliers", due to when they were born (early in the age group), they would be bigger/stronger.  This was especially prevalent at the 10u - 13u age group.

Here was an example:

14u age group  (2010 )

A Team  - 75 % 9th graders, 25% 8th graders

B Team - 25% 9th graders, 75% 8th graders

C Team - sacrificial lambs  (had about 3 players that played college baseball)

D Team  - sacrificial lambs

85 % of their practices were indoors.

Difference between A and B was pitching, B Team had better athletes.

They made sure the groups didn't practice together.

Secondly, A team had a bunch of mercenaries, who only showed up to tournaments.

 In 2011, Arsenal changed their program to reflect Graduation class, this caused a lot of friction in the organization because the  2010 13u (8th grade studs), thought they were better than the 2010 14u (B Team 8th graders)

The Arsenal had 3 teams, and instead of them do true evaluation and create 2 very competitive teams, they kept them separate, had a off year based on their standards and wound up changing back to the age cutoff model in order to stroke certain egos.

One thing I find interesting. In the last three months, due to the coronavirus pandemic, a lot of NJ travel baseball organizations have been doing a ton of virtual/internet programming and promoting. Twitter, Twitch, Zoom, Instagram, YouTube, etc.

Arsenal has 4 Instragram posts since April 1st. Before the pandemic they were good for that many in a day. 

Unless they are doing things privately online and not sharing anything publically with non-members, they have gone radio silent the last 2 months. 

One thing I noticed with non-national Arsenal now, before the pandemic, was their business model: Get/assemble a solid group of position players and some serviceable pitchers. But, then reach out to the best pitching prospects in the Tristate and have them come into the tournaments for free to showcase themselves and sell/build the Arsenal brand.

My son played with Arsenal for one season. It was a very strong team. They had at least 4 or 5 pitchers who were legit D1 prospects - and all of them played somewhere else and would just pop in for an Arsenal start or appearance in a tournament and then go back to their main team. I am convinced that JC would recruit them off Instragram and have them guest for Arsenal. Personally, it seemed brilliant and it worked. But I think it worked because the Arsenal have that "brand" name and it helps to lure the pitchers. Stalking and poaching on Instagram isn't going to work if your team name is The Bad News Bears and no one has ever heard of you.

I would guess that many 10u-14u top travel teams are made up of Malcom Gladwell outliers - those kids who have early birthdays (roughly half of our 13u team had turned 14 by July) and those kids early on the puberty curve. 

Current Arsenal 14's are split by grade (as of fall 2019) into two separate teams -- 2023's (9th grade) and 14u (mostly 8th with a few 9th). 

@Fan2024 posted:

I would guess that many 10u-14u top travel teams are made up of Malcom Gladwell outliers - those kids who have early birthdays (roughly half of our 13u team had turned 14 by July) and those kids early on the puberty curve. 

Current Arsenal 14's are split by grade (as of fall 2019) into two separate teams -- 2023's (9th grade) and 14u (mostly 8th with a few 9th). 

 

 

Way back in 2009 - 2011, the big issue was quality practice time, there was limited outdoor practices. 

We did 13 tournaments in 17 weeks, it was all about pitching and simple defense, but as you know the more complex defensive plays,  cutoff, rundowns, etc required extensive practice.

Shagging flys in the sun require practice, their focus was the diamond: pitchers, catcher, middle infield and center fielder.  Outfielders moving on every pitch is a habit and having a good feeling for the game.

At the end of my son's 15U summer, we got a message on our answering machine from someone saying they were from Arsenal, would our son be interested in playing for them next season (we are nowhere near NJ).  We had no clue what they were.  We figured, o.k., we'll do some research into this tomorrow.  The next day my father had a heart attack, we were at the hospital with him for 2 weeks, then life moved on, we never followed up, son stayed with his same organization.  Since I've learned more about Arsenal and how such teams work, I've wondered, did we miss a great opportunity?  or dodge a bullet?  We'll never know, which goes to show that with coronavirus or any other life event, you can't tell what kind of fork in the road it will prove to be.

@anotherparent posted:

At the end of my son's 15U summer, we got a message on our answering machine from someone saying they were from Arsenal, would our son be interested in playing for them next season (we are nowhere near NJ).  We had no clue what they were.  We figured, o.k., we'll do some research into this tomorrow.  The next day my father had a heart attack, we were at the hospital with him for 2 weeks, then life moved on, we never followed up, son stayed with his same organization.  Since I've learned more about Arsenal and how such teams work, I've wondered, did we miss a great opportunity?  or dodge a bullet?  We'll never know, which goes to show that with coronavirus or any other life event, you can't tell what kind of fork in the road it will prove to be.

Sounds like that was their National team - made up of kids around the country- which is totally separate from the NY/NJ/CT/PA more local Arsenal group. Two different guys. One does National and the other does local.

@anotherparent posted:

At the end of my son's 15U summer, we got a message on our answering machine from someone saying they were from Arsenal, would our son be interested in playing for them next season (we are nowhere near NJ).  We had no clue what they were.  We figured, o.k., we'll do some research into this tomorrow.  The next day my father had a heart attack, we were at the hospital with him for 2 weeks, then life moved on, we never followed up, son stayed with his same organization.  Since I've learned more about Arsenal and how such teams work, I've wondered, did we miss a great opportunity?  or dodge a bullet?  We'll never know, which goes to show that with coronavirus or any other life event, you can't tell what kind of fork in the road it will prove to be.

I would state that it depends on what team they were planning to place your son.  What school's did they connect on his behalf. You making those contacts to determine if there was real interest.

Again, my son played with them for 3 years, their college placement program was all talk, they didn't have what we might call a 7 step program.

Secondly, they didn't really make connections or guide players to mid majors, d2, etc  as for they didn't have the bandwidth.

Note,  a travel team's recruiting coordinator is a very important job, but the problem was it wasn't full-time. 

That person had to make his money via lessons, coaching, etc.

IMHO, it has gotten better, but to what extent, that is for the newbies to articulate.

Many programs are using social networking tools to make those connections.

NCSA

Field-Level

Sportsforce

Sportthread

or HS Baseball Website

to understand where some of the trap doors might be.

@Francis7 posted:

Sounds like that was their National team - made up of kids around the country- which is totally separate from the NY/NJ/CT/PA more local Arsenal group. Two different guys. One does National and the other does local.

Bob Barth (Joe's son) did a lot of expanding, back then they were trying to regionalize the program. The goal was to create a complex near Erial to rival DiamondNation and create a PG Northeast hub.

You may have been contacted by their Scout team coach - the Scout teams are  composed of kids from all over (not many tri-state kids), vs the "national" teams, which are really regional. 

Well, we'll never know, it's water under the bridge, a long time ago.  I only mentioned it because many people (like us) don't even know what these organizations are, much less that they have all these different levels of teams.  I only figured it out years later, after I started reading hsbbw.

The top teams in the country started grabbing up the top talent in the Arsenal's area. Canes, US Elite, Team Northeast, Citius (at the time) etc.

Arsenal still put out good teams with plenty of committed kids, but the 7-0 deep WWBA runs aren't really a thing anymore. Played for them and played against them, I think it went from having an Elite A and a strong B to having a strong A and average to weak B-D. That is what you need to do to subsidize the cost for the top guys. 

At one point we ran into them, it was Tri State Arsenal Kentucky. I think anybody can franchise the name out. Either way they're still good, but an invite to play for them years ago was a big deal, now there are other programs in NJ I would probably consider first. 

@PABaseball posted:

The top teams in the country started grabbing up the top talent in the Arsenal's area. Canes, US Elite, Team Northeast, Citius (at the time) etc.

Arsenal still put out good teams with plenty of committed kids, but the 7-0 deep WWBA runs aren't really a thing anymore. Played for them and played against them, I think it went from having an Elite A and a strong B to having a strong A and average to weak B-D. That is what you need to do to subsidize the cost for the top guys. 

At one point we ran into them, it was Tri State Arsenal Kentucky. I think anybody can franchise the name out. Either way they're still good, but an invite to play for them years ago was a big deal, now there are other programs in NJ I would probably consider first. 

Tri-state Arsenal Kentucky doesn't even sound correct. lol. 

Was the Tri-state Arsenal Kentucky post 2014?

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

I would state that it depends on what team they were planning to place your son.  What school's did they connect on his behalf. You making those contacts to determine if there was real interest.

Again, my son played with them for 3 years, their college placement program was all talk, they didn't have what we might call a 7 step program.

Secondly, they didn't really make connections or guide players to mid majors, d2, etc  as for they didn't have the bandwidth.

Note,  a travel team's recruiting coordinator is a very important job, but the problem was it wasn't full-time. 

That person had to make his money via lessons, coaching, etc.

IMHO, it has gotten better, but to what extent, that is for the newbies to articulate.

Many programs are using social networking tools to make those connections.

NCSA

Field-Level

Sportsforce

Sportthread

or HS Baseball Website

to understand where some of the trap doors might be.

That was our sense. If you were committed then Arsenal would promote that as if they made it happen. And there would be promises of "looks" and "exposure." And JC has everyone on his phone. But, the reality is that there was no plan or program for recruiting. You are going to have to do that on your own. I have since seen other organizations who have a plan, programs, software, contacts, and whose primary directive is getting kids recruited. Arsenal is no where near that now.

This is a BIG reason we chose US Elite. They are constantly prodding the players to build their player profiles, videos, gpa's, realistic college selections. State Directors and coaches promote these players religiously . So far, they are everything we had hoped for

@Baseball59 posted:

This is a BIG reason we chose US Elite. They are constantly prodding the players to build their player profiles, videos, gpa's, realistic college selections. State Directors and coaches promote these players religiously . So far, they are everything we had hoped for

How is the current shutdown impact your family?

We're very fortunate. We have a local field that has always been open. We go out and get our workouts in. US Elite has provided webinars, live interactive conference calls with D1, D3, D3, and JUCO  Coaches. Our kuds live it...real questions with real answers.  Alot of interactive workouts via BLAST, and alot of professional webinars for hitting, pitching, fielding, and nutrition. Spent alot of time putting our player profiles together, complete with videos. Have ALOT of colleges reaching out to ciaches and Directors.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

Tri-state Arsenal Kentucky doesn't even sound correct. lol. 

Was the Tri-state Arsenal Kentucky post 2014?

https://www.perfectgame.org/PG...=88820&Year=2018