Who's to blame?

I see this as a good thing for my son who's a good student. I believe the coaches will be forced to look at grades a little bit harder or face the wrath of the NCAA.

As I understand it, the rules are particularly harsh on baseball (as compared to some other sports). Kids leaving for the pros after their junior year count against the school's graduation rate, if I am not mistaken. And with the relatively small rosters (compared to football), that has a very bad effect on the rate.

I agree with you Texan. Texas Tech lost 1.7 of their scholarships due to the new ruling. Last season they lost something like 8 players to the draft. It was the largest number of players ever drafted from the program. I think the NCAA's intentions are good but need to be revised so that school programs are not penalized for players accepting pro contracts. At the same time though, our kids need to know that they are at school for their education first. I am curious though as to how this will effect kids in JUCOs. Article in the Lubbock AJ today reports that the TTU baseball program is revamping their recruiting of JUCO players to their program for this very reason. I don't know the full wording of the NCAA rule but that would really stink for JUCO players trying to move to the next level if they can't/won't be recruited to D1s or D2s due to this rule.

The best way to combat this is to not allow kids to transfer without losing any eligibility.

Now, I don't say this to put it on the kids. Actually, I put it more on the coaches. They will have to be alot more careful in who they recruit. They will have to be sure they are bringing in the type of kid that "fits their program's philosophy."

I know coaches that have "cleaned house" because of this very thing. Of course, it will catch up to them in a couple of years when they lose scholarships because of low graduation rate percentages.

PD,

You left off one very important choice...The Parents...it's the parents job to make sure that academics are important at home. I think you should add that to the mix and see what responses you get then. Just my thoughts..........

Old Pitcher -- I agree and I almost included parents with the HS -- but the poll only provides a list of 5 choices.

I feel the responsibility rests soley on the 18+YO young man.
He is the only one who can control his situation.
I would like to take credit for his success but it is his success and not mine.

by HHH

"The NCAA has made adjustments in their calculations to not penalize teams for players taken in the draft anymore. That's a non-factor in the equation."


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Looks like this will be good for my son as well. However, I think there is alot of blame and it does start with the student. However, coaches that do not consider grades are asking for problems.

My son's select organization stresses to the kids the importance of grades. The high school coaches have never mentioned grades.

That's interesting, Bee. I had recently read otherwise. Guess that will take some research.

quote:

Originally posted by screwball:
Looks like this will be good for my son as well. However, I think there is alot of blame and it does start with the student. However, coaches that do not consider grades are asking for problems.

My son's select organization stresses to the kids the importance of grades. The high school coaches have never mentioned grades.

I can't speak for your high school coach, but I spend more time talking to my kids about grades than baseball. Not only to be eligible to play in HS, but if they want to go to a 4 year school, baseball players have different academic standards than football recruits.

Sorry your HS coach does not stress grades. Do ya'll have lots of issues with ineligibility?

PD,

Thanks for the reply....I just think that too many times, we as parents want to blame everyone or everything else for our kids issues, when it's really our fault for not teaching them what we should at home! That's really the point I was trying to make.

quote:

by screwball: I think there is alot of blame and it does start with the student.

I'm not so sure I'd agree with that

you're saying most Texas kids are bad students ??

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People blaming themselves have to make assumptions. The coach took poor students, parents didn't do their job etc, schools passed poor students etc.
The truth is very good students with great upbringings often leave home and get the freedom they never had. I have seen it over and over. The only person you can blame is the one that benefits the most. When you leave the nest you have to learn to fly.

18 year old kids are accountable for their own behaviors and actions. You can blame it on mom or dad, the high school coach, the high school itself or the college. As long as they are given an excuse they will use it. If you allow a kid to be a victim when he is 18, he will be a victim when he is 28. I don't think it has changed since I played. We had kids that committed to their education and those that didn't. You can now see a direct correlation to those that accepted accountability and those that didn't by what they have accomplished after baseball. Everybody plays their last game. Prepare for it.

Lynn, that's fine and dandy, but if you are recruiting kids with a 2.0 gpa in High School, you deserve some of the blame.

as often discussed here,
there is a HUGE difference in how various programs view/support academics

there are some programs who set themselves up for the "academic success" of their players

and others who have not yet put much effort into it - hopefully that will change for the better

my guess is there is alot of finger pointing going on now & some heads will roll, ie - administrators.

you're talking BIG ALUM SUPPORT at some schools and
a "black eye to the schools athletics" (football) is not well recieved by their checkbooks.


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Y'all won't like this post either, but here goes.

Fix this problem by eliminating ALL athletic scholarships. Return sports to its proper perspective in the educational system. Stop glorifying athletic accomplishment. I bet you can't find one college or university charter that emphasizes national championship athletic achievement, or athletic farm system for professional advancement over scholarly pursuits.

Keller who is to blame for the 2.0 ?

When student athlete walks on the campus he is in the sdame position as anyone else. He starts at even and has all the help he can use to help him maintain grades. He also had to qualify with the Clearing House. If he can do that he can keep his marks up to graduate.
There are a lot of things that parents should share blame but this is not one of them.

dbg,
athletic success & championships also help build new classrooms, libraries, & dorms -
they also ATTRACT smart non atheletes to campus

worth noting,
there were some schools on the penalty list showing TERRIBLE academic progress,
and also showing TERRIBLE athletic results

how embarrassing


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quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
athletic success & championships also help build new classrooms, libraries, & dorms

Someone may suggest I'm twisting your words, and maybe I am. My response is that luring alumni contributions by using college athletics as a fund raising tool is an extension of the glorification of college athletic teams and coaches. That glorification may the be root of the problem.

Here's my take....

CHOICES, CHOICES, CHOICES!

Parents choose how to raise their child, High Schools choose how to educate the student, College coaches choose who to recruit and sign. This issue can't boil down to blaming one group over the other.
Ultimately, when the player arrives at college they are entering as an adult. The choices now become their own.

Have you toured the athletic facilities available to kids today? The academic support available to the athlete is unbelievable, from mandatory study halls, 18 hour-a-day staffed academic labs for athletes who need help, private tutoring paid for by the university, traveling tutors to accompany the player while on the road, etc. We left every campus shaking our heads in disbelief that any athlete couldn't maintain their grades. Our conclusion was that the athlete would have to try pretty hard to fail by not attending classes and doing the work assigned, what with all the help available.

Yes, you can blame parents for the upbringing, HS for the preparation, coaches for picking players who aren't prepared for college. But the bottom line is that the player is now an adult and is responsible for the choices they make.
1. Don't pick a school you can't handle academically.
2. Choose a field of study in which you will succeed (not everyone majors in chemistry, engineering, physics, etc)
3. Put your full effort into your experience once you get there.
4. Understand that by choosing baseball in college, you now have a full-time job in addition to school. Budget your time wisely.

We've all heard of the kids who came from nothing and made something of themselves. CHOICES!

quote:

by KC: Have you toured the athletic facilities available to kids today? The academic support available to the athlete is unbelievable, from mandatory study halls, 18 hour-a-day staffed academic labs

you are fortunate if you really saw what you thought you saw


at "SOME" schools the following don't get much coverage during their tours

student athletes have huge time demands
athletic demands come before academic demands
mandantory study tables are NOT really mandantory,
staffed labs (defined - staffed sometimes)

I have heard of schools that had tutors available, BUT - to "sub" for exams


I'll admit that I know nothing & make no judements re Texas schools,
but several others listed, you'd be simply amazed at the difference between
what they show on the tour & what goes on in reality


jmo
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KD - How many coaches have you praised for leading the conference in GPA. NONE. The school gives the kid the opportunity to get an education with significant assistance from the university with tutors. If the kid can not get it done, then it is the kids fault. Coaches get paid to win. If they don't, they are gone regardless of the team GPA. Spelling bees do not sell out. If you think GPA is the most important thing, then consider the IVY LEAGUE.

vanlandingham, OUCH!

spelling bees DO sell out


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Bee>
Again, its a matter of choices, or taking advantage of the help being offered. I understand that smaller, less funded schools might not have the resources to offer what we saw at the schools we toured. But some of those very schools, who had great assistance for their athletes, are on this list.

Case in point...
Our neighbor, a young lady who has not an athletic bone in her body, shared this info with us regarding her college experience at a Kansas state school. She says everyone knows to befriend the athletes because you can sit in on their study group and get their tutoring for free. She says the tutor comes to the dorm and anyone in the player's room benefits from the tutoring.

I believe the help is there, perhaps less motivated athletes are choosing to not take advantage of what is available?

KC I agree with you. We are very pleased with my son's school and he has all the things you mentioned available to him.
Many times I call and he has been at study hall required by his team. One of the 1st letters we got from the school was an introduction to his academic concellor outlining the help and facilities available.
If you don't produce academically you lose your scholarship and eligibility.

Getting drafted has NOTHING to do with academics. Football and basketball players are normally seniors by the time their drafts roll around. If you've banked your whole life/college career around being drafted and you slacked off during school and flunk out/don't graduate then YES by all means the school should be accountable for that (anybody ever see 'The Program'?) If you're playing baseball at a D1, you can't be drafted until your junior year or you turn 21 and most kids I know would rather take a chance at playing - they can always go back to school later - thats their attitude - so the school is going to get penalized. This ruling is going to hurt baseball programs WAY more than football or basketball for this very reason. Please do not misunderstand me. I believe academics are be #1 but this is about the number of scholarships available for teams and if you've been on this board any time at all you KNOW that the NCAA rulings inherently hurt baseball more than any other sport. Just look at the number of schollies available as compared to football. That's been discussed. Look at the article posted on the front page of this website concerning Miss St (think that's right) coach and his views on the NCAA. Look at how much $$$$ football programs get when their team wins the National Championship vs how much a team gets for winning the CWS. There's no comparison.

Don't do a gig @ a D1 school IF you are just amusing MLB and wanting more money on draft day -- PLAY BASEBALL BECAUSE YOU LOVE & RESPECT THE PURE GAME.

quote:

by KC: But some of those very schools, who had great assistance for their athletes, are on this list.

I'll try again to be clear

any schools you toured (& many you didn't) now on the list, have their "tour face"
& a quite different "day-to-day reality face"

c'mon, you can't really believe bad/lazy students all happened to gravitate to
a few unfortunate "victim" schools


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quote:

quote:
by screwball: I think there is alot of blame and it does start with the student.
I'm not so sure I'd agree with that

you're saying most Texas kids are bad students ??

Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I am simply saying that the responsibility for students to maintaining their grades is the students. At college mommy or daddy cannot do the projects, get the grades changed, do the homework, and all the other things that are done to make sure junior gets to play on his high school team.

I have praised coaches for certian items that raise their GPA's. I have a friend who's daughter went to Baylor for 4 years on a Cross Country scholarship, not really a high level cross country athlete, but a 4.0 for 4 years. The athletic scholarship was more for her grades than her athletic ability, because they needed to raise their GPA of their department.

She's now in med school.

If grades don't matter, then why are they STUDENT athletes?

And it's going to be tough to keep winning with 10% fewer scholarships.

screwball,
it doesn't have anything to do with homework & projects -

it has to do with the time demands, priorities, and willingness to help the student athletes in their program

some programs care - - some don't


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Had to chime in...My relationship to Texas is that I have two kids that I coached for a part of a summer season playing at Rice.

That said.

How can we, as parents, convince kids to get good grades when a guy scores a 6 on the Wonderlic Test and is likely going to be a multi-millionaire in a few weeks?

A 6 is equivalent to being able to color 2 pictures in a coloring book.

And now, regardless of your son's grades, or the program participants, there are 10.0, not 11.7 baseball scholarships that your son is competing for.

And now, there will be 1.7 kids who might not have the opportunity to make any academic progress.

quote:

by bt: A 6 is equivalent to being able to color 2 pictures in a coloring book.

staying in the lines can be very difficult


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As for the guy that scored a 6 on the Wonderlic...THAT wasn't his fault either! Didn't they say they "made a mistake" on the grading initially?

Mistakes do happen.