Why are only six percent of college baseball players are black?
http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2...PORTS/605140330/1031
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They are playing football and basketball
That is why--both being full scholarship sports
That is why--both being full scholarship sports
Besides what TR says....Because there are very, very few organized leagues (other than RBI now) in many of the major population centers in cities over 1 million; and, fewer still in cities between 200,000 and 1 million.
Too, the days of the "volunteer" coaches who love the game and the kids and the sunshine are gone, too. Virtually every suburban team has coaches who are fathers who have their own sons on the team. Would likely have no teams if the fathers didn't coach. Tough to do in the inner cities where the head of the household is a mom; and, there are few, if any, father figures. (Dear Do-Gooders....Please don't tell me I'm a racist here. I've been there and seen that.)
Too, the days of the "volunteer" coaches who love the game and the kids and the sunshine are gone, too. Virtually every suburban team has coaches who are fathers who have their own sons on the team. Would likely have no teams if the fathers didn't coach. Tough to do in the inner cities where the head of the household is a mom; and, there are few, if any, father figures. (Dear Do-Gooders....Please don't tell me I'm a racist here. I've been there and seen that.)
Thanks Andy. Lets end the work week by stirring the racial pot. 
. This is what you enjoy.
We all have our opinions on why this occurs no matter how sincere we are, the topic is so volital that someones opinion always get wacked and the thread goes downhill from there.
. This is what you enjoy.We all have our opinions on why this occurs no matter how sincere we are, the topic is so volital that someones opinion always get wacked and the thread goes downhill from there.
In the DC area, what TR is saying is especially true. AAU basketball is full-time and took up the majority of young, black kids in my area. When I coached 8, 9, 10, we never had many black players trying out for baseball, when you are developing kids. By the time they get to college, they don't have the baseball skills to play at that level.
Look at the very interesting article the Washington Post published yesterday about the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference -- a collection of historically black colleges and universities. In part it says, "The shrinking number of black baseball players is a much-noted trend that stretches across all levels of the game. Last season, 8.5 percent of Major League Baseball players were African American, down from 18 percent in 1991, according to the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport. In the 2004 season, just 6 percent of Division I baseball players were black, according to an NCAA survey, compared with 58 percent of basketball players and 44 percent of football players.
But on campuses that are often 85 or 90 percent black, the MEAC's baseball rosters are especially striking. At Coppin State, about half of the school's 30 white male students play for the baseball team. At league powerhouse Bethune-Cookman, about half of the school's 30 Hispanic male students do the same.
Coaches at historically black schools tell stories of attending showcase events for high school seniors and seeing just four or five black faces among 200 prospects. At their schools, the situation is reversed; white players on several MEAC teams said they're often the only non-black students in their classes and are easily identified as baseball players merely by walking through campus."
Full article here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...AR2006051702361.html
Look at the very interesting article the Washington Post published yesterday about the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference -- a collection of historically black colleges and universities. In part it says, "The shrinking number of black baseball players is a much-noted trend that stretches across all levels of the game. Last season, 8.5 percent of Major League Baseball players were African American, down from 18 percent in 1991, according to the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport. In the 2004 season, just 6 percent of Division I baseball players were black, according to an NCAA survey, compared with 58 percent of basketball players and 44 percent of football players.
But on campuses that are often 85 or 90 percent black, the MEAC's baseball rosters are especially striking. At Coppin State, about half of the school's 30 white male students play for the baseball team. At league powerhouse Bethune-Cookman, about half of the school's 30 Hispanic male students do the same.
Coaches at historically black schools tell stories of attending showcase events for high school seniors and seeing just four or five black faces among 200 prospects. At their schools, the situation is reversed; white players on several MEAC teams said they're often the only non-black students in their classes and are easily identified as baseball players merely by walking through campus."
Full article here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...AR2006051702361.html
Last February, the NBA's black-player population was 77 percent, while the white-player population was 21 percent. Of the white players, 55 percent were American-born and 45 percent were international players. The way high school players are seen now is through travel ball. Same goes for almost every sport other than football. The young men who play basketball see how quick they can get into pro basketball rather than spend the time in college, there lyes your answers. What needs to be done is an equal across the board time or age that someone can become pro. This could become a large forum in itself on this subject but it is a start.
We have been there and done that with this topic. I am a minority myself and it is safe to say that the inner cities do not have the funding or facilities for organized baseball. It is not cool to play baseball and many kids in the inner city do not have the means to even play baseball.
I can get a basketball and walk to the nearest court and play for days on end. You need 9 to 10 kids to play baseball. Baseball involves gloves, cleats, bats, etc. I can go on and on. Bottomline is that it is not a mainstream sport in the Urban cities. My older brother was a star athlete in NYC. He wishes he would of stuck with baseball in his early days. He went on to play Pro Basketball overseas and when I ask him why didn't he play baseball he always responds with ," everyone played basketball, no one in the neighborhood played baseball ". He currently retired from Basketball and is playing with a semi-pro team in Puerto Rico and having a blast. (Typical Beer league)
On the other side of all this I am making sure my son has an opportunity to play this game. I am there for every game and I am also there to support him. Many kids in the inner city cannot afford to invest in Tournaments and Showcases. Maybe they will get an invite but unfortunately you have to invest Time and Money for a kid to get an opportunity in baseball. A kid in the inner city may also come from a broken home. Single moms/dads will have to work two jobs to make ends meet. This will make it hard for a parent to even watch a kid play a game. I can go on and on but I believe this is part of the reason. Fortunately for me I was able to get an education and move to SOCAL.
This topic is not off based at all. It is stating facts and I believe it isn't stirring the racial pot at all. A little of my background. I grew up in the South Bronx for 18 years of my life. Although we didn't have much we did have baseball back then. We played on concrete fields and had Yankee Stadium as our backdrop. Those are some of the memories I will have for a lifetime.
I can get a basketball and walk to the nearest court and play for days on end. You need 9 to 10 kids to play baseball. Baseball involves gloves, cleats, bats, etc. I can go on and on. Bottomline is that it is not a mainstream sport in the Urban cities. My older brother was a star athlete in NYC. He wishes he would of stuck with baseball in his early days. He went on to play Pro Basketball overseas and when I ask him why didn't he play baseball he always responds with ," everyone played basketball, no one in the neighborhood played baseball ". He currently retired from Basketball and is playing with a semi-pro team in Puerto Rico and having a blast. (Typical Beer league)
On the other side of all this I am making sure my son has an opportunity to play this game. I am there for every game and I am also there to support him. Many kids in the inner city cannot afford to invest in Tournaments and Showcases. Maybe they will get an invite but unfortunately you have to invest Time and Money for a kid to get an opportunity in baseball. A kid in the inner city may also come from a broken home. Single moms/dads will have to work two jobs to make ends meet. This will make it hard for a parent to even watch a kid play a game. I can go on and on but I believe this is part of the reason. Fortunately for me I was able to get an education and move to SOCAL.
This topic is not off based at all. It is stating facts and I believe it isn't stirring the racial pot at all. A little of my background. I grew up in the South Bronx for 18 years of my life. Although we didn't have much we did have baseball back then. We played on concrete fields and had Yankee Stadium as our backdrop. Those are some of the memories I will have for a lifetime.
Baseballbum,
This is a good topic and has a lot of good people responding with good comments. My point was that eventually someone will take it down which is a shame.
Tournaments and showcases are way down the road. Involvement by both parents and players begins with the t-ball years. I don't care if your from the project or the lily-white sub-division, baseball is not a game many can just jump into in at 12 yrs old.
This is a good topic and has a lot of good people responding with good comments. My point was that eventually someone will take it down which is a shame.
quote:Many kids in the inner city cannot afford to invest in Tournaments and Showcases. Maybe they will get an invite but unfortunately you have to invest Time and Money for a kid to get an opportunity in baseball.
Tournaments and showcases are way down the road. Involvement by both parents and players begins with the t-ball years. I don't care if your from the project or the lily-white sub-division, baseball is not a game many can just jump into in at 12 yrs old.
There are many reasons why the black population is so low in baseball. Some of the reasons have already been given. It’s really too bad because many of the very best players we see each year are black. What this means (I think) is out of those black players who are involved the percentage of very top prospects is much higher than whites. This should tell us that baseball is missing out on a lot of potential great players. (I think)
I hate to say it, but I’m not sure anyone really cares quite enough. Hopefully that will change in the future.
Here are some very good black high school players we’ve seen over the past couple years. There are many more who are presently playing in college.
Chris Nelson - 1st round
Delmon Young - 1st round (1st pick)
Lastings Milledge - 1st round
Dexter Fowler - Drafted later but signed for 1st round money
BJ Upton – 1st round
Justin Upton – 1st round (1st pick)
Cameron Maybin – 1st round
Andrew McCutchen – 1st round
CJ Henry – 1st round
Austin Jackson – Drafted later, signed for 1st round money
John Mayberry – 1st round
Prince Fielder – 1st round
Adam Jones – 1st round
Donald Veal – 3rd round
Greg Golson – 1st round
Josh Johnson – 3rd round
Greg Burns – 3rd round
Ricky Weeks 1st round
Estee Harris 2nd rd
Tim Battle 3rd round
James Loney 1st round
Denard Span 1st round
Elijah Dukes 3rd round
We probably missed a few, but over a three year span there were around 20 black players drafted in the first round. That represents more than 20% of all the first round picks. This out of a fairly small pool of players. Just last year the first three high school players selected in the draft were black players. This tells me that baseball needs to open the doors much better and it has to start when these kids are very young.
I hate to say it, but I’m not sure anyone really cares quite enough. Hopefully that will change in the future.
Here are some very good black high school players we’ve seen over the past couple years. There are many more who are presently playing in college.
Chris Nelson - 1st round
Delmon Young - 1st round (1st pick)
Lastings Milledge - 1st round
Dexter Fowler - Drafted later but signed for 1st round money
BJ Upton – 1st round
Justin Upton – 1st round (1st pick)
Cameron Maybin – 1st round
Andrew McCutchen – 1st round
CJ Henry – 1st round
Austin Jackson – Drafted later, signed for 1st round money
John Mayberry – 1st round
Prince Fielder – 1st round
Adam Jones – 1st round
Donald Veal – 3rd round
Greg Golson – 1st round
Josh Johnson – 3rd round
Greg Burns – 3rd round
Ricky Weeks 1st round
Estee Harris 2nd rd
Tim Battle 3rd round
James Loney 1st round
Denard Span 1st round
Elijah Dukes 3rd round
We probably missed a few, but over a three year span there were around 20 black players drafted in the first round. That represents more than 20% of all the first round picks. This out of a fairly small pool of players. Just last year the first three high school players selected in the draft were black players. This tells me that baseball needs to open the doors much better and it has to start when these kids are very young.
Blacks make up 12.9% of the United States. Caucasions are something like 81% If you take the percentage of Black athletes in college overall, I think you might get a different perspective. Why do you have to have percentages? Black athletes that want to concentrate on baseball will play baseball at the highest levels.
Baseball players (and athletes in general) are motivated by an emotional passion and no government agency will ever come close to understanding that! For government to step in and ask “Who’s on first--- and ---- Why is he on first?” would be a travesty. But --- that hasn’t stopped them from trying in the past. I also know that all types of discrimination exist in every corner of this world. We are all discriminated against ---- by someone!
I agree there is a racial imbalance in baseball but I’m convinced it is not as a result of discrimination. I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons for this imbalance and my opinion will be scoffed at simply because I'm white and a southerner, but at least I can make unsubstantiated deductions just like everyone else. Common sense would dictate to me that society is trying to make this a pure "numbers game". If society wants to make this a numbers game then we need to look at ALL equal opportunity programs and make sure that “other” opportunity programs have left baseball enough black athletes to draw from. Maybe we should give black families more lead time so they can prepare their children to satisfy an equal opportunity percentage number. That way we can prevent uninformed parents from messing up the equality numbers. Maybe government could intervene early enough to prevent parents from preparing their children to be ---- say ---- a preacher just to find out that twenty years later those black preacher percentages were too high and society needs more black baseball players. On the other hand it might be that our society has become so color blind that nobody has noticed the lack of black baseball players until it’s too late to lure a young black child to be a baseball player. Maybe kids are just being kids and playing those games they want to play. What about the racial imbalance in hopscotch and double Dutch? Who’s going to address that problem? Should government step in?
While I like butter pecan ice cream, deer hunting, bass fishing, baseball, and Charlie Pride’s music; that doesn’t mean the whole world has to be like me.
Fungo
I agree there is a racial imbalance in baseball but I’m convinced it is not as a result of discrimination. I'm sure there are a multitude of reasons for this imbalance and my opinion will be scoffed at simply because I'm white and a southerner, but at least I can make unsubstantiated deductions just like everyone else. Common sense would dictate to me that society is trying to make this a pure "numbers game". If society wants to make this a numbers game then we need to look at ALL equal opportunity programs and make sure that “other” opportunity programs have left baseball enough black athletes to draw from. Maybe we should give black families more lead time so they can prepare their children to satisfy an equal opportunity percentage number. That way we can prevent uninformed parents from messing up the equality numbers. Maybe government could intervene early enough to prevent parents from preparing their children to be ---- say ---- a preacher just to find out that twenty years later those black preacher percentages were too high and society needs more black baseball players. On the other hand it might be that our society has become so color blind that nobody has noticed the lack of black baseball players until it’s too late to lure a young black child to be a baseball player. Maybe kids are just being kids and playing those games they want to play. What about the racial imbalance in hopscotch and double Dutch? Who’s going to address that problem? Should government step in?
While I like butter pecan ice cream, deer hunting, bass fishing, baseball, and Charlie Pride’s music; that doesn’t mean the whole world has to be like me.
Fungo
My communities youth programs offer scholarships in for football, basketball, and baseball to low income and minority kids. The football and basketball programs always have kids using the opportunities, Little League baseball has few if any.
PGStaff...Your post was "right on"! The most significant statement you made, in my opinion, was "...I'm not sure anyone cares quite enough."
Guys, with all due respect, all the excuses about limited college scholarships, fatherless homes, lack of inner city facilities, black kids preferring basketball and football, just does not cut it anymore. I'm not saying that those are not factors. Sure they are! But they are not show-stoppers. If we took a poll right now, how many of my fellow posters grew up in fatherless homes either through divorce or an absentee father? Just from knowing what I know about divorce rates and other social statistics, there are plenty of us who grew up in fatherless homes. Did that make us not want to achieve our goals if we really wanted to succeed and there were incentives to achieve? And to talk about the "Absentee Black Father" is not racist. We need to talk about it more. It's a fact in a lot of our inner city communities, and it's a shame. But it's not only the black family that is falling apart. Unless someone has been living in a cave for the past five years or in some other isolated situation, then you know that ALL families in today's society are being challenged in one way or the other. Methamphetamine use in the White community in Georgia, particularly North Georgia has caused so much attention that our Governor has commissioned a special task force to "study" the issue. It is destroying many white families just as "crack" use has destroyed many black families. But the operative word here is "many" not "all", not even "most". There are millions of us who are being real fathers and providing for our children and hoping and wishing for the best for them. All they need is a fair shot NOT preferential treatment.
From where I sit those negative factors could be overcome if baseball would, "...open the doors better...and start when these kids are very young."
We've all hashed this out time and time again on this message board in similar threads over the years, and, I get the feeling that we really don't want to know the real "whys" and, thus, find a solution... and here we are another year, talking about the same old thing and coming up with the same old excuses. It's really sad.
Guys, with all due respect, all the excuses about limited college scholarships, fatherless homes, lack of inner city facilities, black kids preferring basketball and football, just does not cut it anymore. I'm not saying that those are not factors. Sure they are! But they are not show-stoppers. If we took a poll right now, how many of my fellow posters grew up in fatherless homes either through divorce or an absentee father? Just from knowing what I know about divorce rates and other social statistics, there are plenty of us who grew up in fatherless homes. Did that make us not want to achieve our goals if we really wanted to succeed and there were incentives to achieve? And to talk about the "Absentee Black Father" is not racist. We need to talk about it more. It's a fact in a lot of our inner city communities, and it's a shame. But it's not only the black family that is falling apart. Unless someone has been living in a cave for the past five years or in some other isolated situation, then you know that ALL families in today's society are being challenged in one way or the other. Methamphetamine use in the White community in Georgia, particularly North Georgia has caused so much attention that our Governor has commissioned a special task force to "study" the issue. It is destroying many white families just as "crack" use has destroyed many black families. But the operative word here is "many" not "all", not even "most". There are millions of us who are being real fathers and providing for our children and hoping and wishing for the best for them. All they need is a fair shot NOT preferential treatment.
From where I sit those negative factors could be overcome if baseball would, "...open the doors better...and start when these kids are very young."
We've all hashed this out time and time again on this message board in similar threads over the years, and, I get the feeling that we really don't want to know the real "whys" and, thus, find a solution... and here we are another year, talking about the same old thing and coming up with the same old excuses. It's really sad.
I wonder if this same question is being asked, but in reverse, on any of the basketball web forums? American born whites in basketball is pretty much non-existent today. Do we as a society consider this to be a problem? If not, then why?
twoseamer...Since I didn't start this thread, I don't know if this question is being asked in reverse about the lack of American born whites in basketball. But it's a good question and needs to be researched. The more diversity in any sport, the better, in my opinion.
Catfish,
Great post. What I don't understand is in our community we have opened those doors and we still are unable to get that kid who is looking for something to do to play baseball. That's what I don't understand.
We shouldn't. Those doors are open, have been, and probably always will be. Pro basketball has such a small membership that only the best move on. There are hundreds of NCAA basketball programs and most have white representation it all comes down to "who's got game" in order to take that next step.
quote:"...open the doors better...and start when these kids are very young."
Great post. What I don't understand is in our community we have opened those doors and we still are unable to get that kid who is looking for something to do to play baseball. That's what I don't understand.
quote:American born whites in basketball is pretty much non-existent today. Do we as a society consider this to be a problem
We shouldn't. Those doors are open, have been, and probably always will be. Pro basketball has such a small membership that only the best move on. There are hundreds of NCAA basketball programs and most have white representation it all comes down to "who's got game" in order to take that next step.
Catfish,
Opening all the doors only lets the heat out. How do you motivate young players to walk thru those doors ? Maybe these kids don't want to play, lots of kids of all races playing s$#@*r instead these days. Maybe baseball isn't "cool" enough. I'd love to see a survey done thru some major market school systems to see if the kids percieve this as a problem. My bet is this is mostly a few "do-gooders" with too much time on their hands creating another social ill to mend.
Opening all the doors only lets the heat out. How do you motivate young players to walk thru those doors ? Maybe these kids don't want to play, lots of kids of all races playing s$#@*r instead these days. Maybe baseball isn't "cool" enough. I'd love to see a survey done thru some major market school systems to see if the kids percieve this as a problem. My bet is this is mostly a few "do-gooders" with too much time on their hands creating another social ill to mend.
quote:Posted by Catfish: If we took a poll right now, how many of my fellow posters grew up in fatherless homes either through divorce or an absentee father?
As my son went through high school I wondered what the effect was of both parents being in the home was on the success rate of ballplayers. The local kids he played with through high school were average in those terms, with a little more than half of the kids in single parent households or from broken homes. Only one of the 6 high schoolers to play college ball was from a broken home.
The very successful summer travel team, on the other hand had 97% of the kids living with both natural parents, including AA players Michael Taylor, currently at Stanford U. playing ball, Tony Thomas Jr. at FSU, and Will Long at UL- Lafayette, RS Freshman.
There is one notable exception, who is projected this year as a (white) first rounder at catcher out of high school.
Without exception both parents of the players attended their games and were integral in their success. I know the parents of a half dozen current major leaguers, including two AL All-Star catchers. Both parents helped their kids and still do.
For whatever reason, both parents appear to be needed to get the kid down the road. That being said, more does need to be done to get minorities, black kids in particular, to play ball early. For whatever reason, hispanic kids find baseball very cool, very early in life.
rz1 is right. Starting the game at age 11 or 12 is difficult for anyone, black, brown or white.
Just one (white) guys observations.
yankeelvr...I think the phrase that PGStaff used and I quoted was, "...baseball needs to open the doors much better..." Big difference in connotation and underlying message than "opening all the doors." Who said that?
Dad04...Oops. We were typing at the same time.
Your comments are so true. Success rates for kids in any walk of life are greater when they have two supportive parents. No doubt about it. But when we see that this is not the case in many black families, you do the next best thing. Many of us, as black men, step up to the "plate" through our Boy's Clubs, Big Brother Clubs and other mentoring programs, and try to be there for the boys who don't have fathers.
Your comments are so true. Success rates for kids in any walk of life are greater when they have two supportive parents. No doubt about it. But when we see that this is not the case in many black families, you do the next best thing. Many of us, as black men, step up to the "plate" through our Boy's Clubs, Big Brother Clubs and other mentoring programs, and try to be there for the boys who don't have fathers.
Maybe we should follow our own advise by not pushing kids into activities but rather maximize our efforts in order to make sure the opportunities to participate are available. To many resources are used and expectations to high when you force feed something. Baseball is a game of passion and if you make sure the door says open for those who want to come in they will.
This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart for both personal and professional reasons. My profession is sociology -- I teach at a state university -- which pretty much ensures that I notice race and ethnicity in my everyday life. Because my son is the product of my former marriage (which was the union of a Jewish white woman and a Protestant African-American man), I also live with it. Believe me, he has been the ONLY black/Jewish kid on the all of his teams, is usually the ONLY Jewish kid during the summer and fall seasons (the high school's demographic is majority white and Jewish) and is often the only black kid. In fact, I can think of only four other black kids in our area who are approximately the same age as my son who continued with baseball as teenagers and who are currently or will be playing college or pro baseball next year. I can't think of anyone coming up behind the two who are currently high school seniors who are minority players with the potential to move on to the next level.
We happen to live in a metropolitan area that is a hotbed for basketball talent; this state has also been noted for its baseball talent. But, again, the majority of the basketball talent is black, and the baseball talent is majority white. City high schools do not have jv teams in baseball; there is no support. Many of the varsity teams in our particular county are also unsupported. I have found myself to often be the only parent from our high school team at games; this year, the attendance was better, but certainly not what it is for other sports. I've also heard that at least one of the local college coaches is disinterested in coaching black baseball players because he feels uncomfortable communicating with them. I can remember only one black player on the roster at the university at which I've been teaching for the past 8 years, but I can't honestly say that that reflects anything but a lack of black players interested in attending the school.
Some of you who are on this board regularly have read my postings and probably have sensed a great deal of frustration in what I write. It's hard enough being a single parent raising a child who few believe is yours; it's even more difficult trying to learn how to nurture his talent when there is little to no community support. It is only in the past year that we have learned what is necessary as there was no network for us to draw from. Fortunately, there are some wonderful people who were and are willing to work with my son to help him reach his potential, although it is comparatively late.
There are a myriad of other reasons that speak to a variety of topics including the lack of educational opportunity, the decision made by localities to minimize support for recreation and parks, the need for teens to work to offset their expenses, politics, discrimination, poverty, the disproportionate incarceration of black males....I could go on and on.
But I can also say that it becomes more difficult to play a sport when there is no one available to teach fundamentals that permit the player to continue to move to the next level, and there is also difficulty in making college a reality when school systems don't expect graduates. In Baltimore City schools, 75% of those who attended in ninth grade do not graduate.
And by the way, I graduated from Morgan State University, a MEAC school without a baseball team. I also received a minority grant for attending an HBCU (which I didn't know I would get; Morgan just happened to be the closest school to my home at the time) and was one of less than 3% (the non-black population).
This, to me, is a topic that is always important and always current.
We happen to live in a metropolitan area that is a hotbed for basketball talent; this state has also been noted for its baseball talent. But, again, the majority of the basketball talent is black, and the baseball talent is majority white. City high schools do not have jv teams in baseball; there is no support. Many of the varsity teams in our particular county are also unsupported. I have found myself to often be the only parent from our high school team at games; this year, the attendance was better, but certainly not what it is for other sports. I've also heard that at least one of the local college coaches is disinterested in coaching black baseball players because he feels uncomfortable communicating with them. I can remember only one black player on the roster at the university at which I've been teaching for the past 8 years, but I can't honestly say that that reflects anything but a lack of black players interested in attending the school.
Some of you who are on this board regularly have read my postings and probably have sensed a great deal of frustration in what I write. It's hard enough being a single parent raising a child who few believe is yours; it's even more difficult trying to learn how to nurture his talent when there is little to no community support. It is only in the past year that we have learned what is necessary as there was no network for us to draw from. Fortunately, there are some wonderful people who were and are willing to work with my son to help him reach his potential, although it is comparatively late.
There are a myriad of other reasons that speak to a variety of topics including the lack of educational opportunity, the decision made by localities to minimize support for recreation and parks, the need for teens to work to offset their expenses, politics, discrimination, poverty, the disproportionate incarceration of black males....I could go on and on.
But I can also say that it becomes more difficult to play a sport when there is no one available to teach fundamentals that permit the player to continue to move to the next level, and there is also difficulty in making college a reality when school systems don't expect graduates. In Baltimore City schools, 75% of those who attended in ninth grade do not graduate.
And by the way, I graduated from Morgan State University, a MEAC school without a baseball team. I also received a minority grant for attending an HBCU (which I didn't know I would get; Morgan just happened to be the closest school to my home at the time) and was one of less than 3% (the non-black population).
This, to me, is a topic that is always important and always current.
quote:American born whites in basketball is pretty much non-existent today. Do we as a society consider this to be a problem
We shouldn't. Those doors are open, have been, and probably always will be. There are hundreds of NCAA basketball programs and most have white representation it all comes down to "who's got game" in order to take that next step.[/QUOTE]
*** Do you really believe thats all it is?
Some really good posts here....very informative. My white son plays baseball because we didn't know about NCAA scholarship limits 11 years ago....we encouraged him to play baseball because I was adverse to football....simple as that.....now if we had known about the football and basketball scholarships....versus baseball.....11 years ago....well....I think he'd be playing college football now....
Economics, personal preferences, demographics, lots of reasons....and again.....great posts here...
Economics, personal preferences, demographics, lots of reasons....and again.....great posts here...
quote:quote:
American born whites in basketball is pretty much non-existent today. Do we as a society consider this to be a problem?
quote:
We shouldn't. Those doors are open, have been, and probably always will be. Pro basketball has such a small membership that only the best move on. There are hundreds of NCAA basketball programs and most have white representation it all comes down to "who's got game" in order to take that next step.
Not so sure I agree with that...not anymore. The next level has white players...just not American born white players. So would that mean American born whites don't a)"have game" or b)don't want to walk through that door?
I know of two different African-American young men who played a very competitive level of baseball in their younger days. Both excelled. Both were from a two parent family. Both are playing other sports now. So...the door was open.
The point being...to assume that the baseball 'door' is not open 'enough' for blacks is the main reason many of them do not play may not be as much the reason. Could it possibly be because of the choices people make as to which door they want to go through?
Since Jackie Robinson broke the barrier things have changed for the better IMO. Maybe the numbers are down regarding participation, but when people watch baseball players they don't think black or white or hispanic (most people anyway). They just see baseball players. When you see the parents, you don't think black or white, you just think baseball players parents.
We set around our office every day talking about baseball players. (It's our business) Never, do I hear someone mentioning a players skin color. They're all baseball players.
Yet when a white basketball player becomes a star in the NBA it is often brought up in every conversation. It's no big surprise when we see a super star black baseball player because there are a lot of them.
I didn't mean forcing people to do anything. If there were programs available to get young people interested in baseball. If there were programs to give young kids a positive good memory.
The first step is to give kids a chance to love the game. It doesn't mean just black or white or hispanic kids... but as many kids as possible. Baseball is an easy game to love if you're exposed to it at a young age! It's not a color thing at all.
We set around our office every day talking about baseball players. (It's our business) Never, do I hear someone mentioning a players skin color. They're all baseball players.
Yet when a white basketball player becomes a star in the NBA it is often brought up in every conversation. It's no big surprise when we see a super star black baseball player because there are a lot of them.
I didn't mean forcing people to do anything. If there were programs available to get young people interested in baseball. If there were programs to give young kids a positive good memory.
The first step is to give kids a chance to love the game. It doesn't mean just black or white or hispanic kids... but as many kids as possible. Baseball is an easy game to love if you're exposed to it at a young age! It's not a color thing at all.
Two Seamer...I think you and I have a lot in common. It's ironic that you differentiate between white players; those that are American born white players and those that are not.
I do the same thing with black players. I've had people tell me that there are plenty of black Americans players in pro baseball because they "see" black faces. But those "black" players are quick to tell you that most are not Black Americans, but Black Hispanics, not born in this country.
It's not a big deal. Just thought that I would point out as humans, we all have a lot in common.
About the baseball door not being open enough is something that is debatable and everyone has their own opinion and we certainly won't resolve it here. As a father of a baseball player, I just continue to encourage him and do what I can to help him walk or "squeeze" through that door.
I do the same thing with black players. I've had people tell me that there are plenty of black Americans players in pro baseball because they "see" black faces. But those "black" players are quick to tell you that most are not Black Americans, but Black Hispanics, not born in this country.
It's not a big deal. Just thought that I would point out as humans, we all have a lot in common.
About the baseball door not being open enough is something that is debatable and everyone has their own opinion and we certainly won't resolve it here. As a father of a baseball player, I just continue to encourage him and do what I can to help him walk or "squeeze" through that door.
I have been in towns/cities where there were a preponderance of minority athletes and yet when you went to the baseball field and watched the games, LL/BR/HS there were very few playing---but go to the lit hoops courts any summer evening and the courts are jammed with players of all ethnic backgrounds-- I just think the kids make choices and the football and hoops stars for some reason seem to be more glorified
PG
I am with you-- we never look at the color of the skin when selecting kids --the bottom line is can they play---some years we have more minorities with us than others and in other years the balance is reversed--you know this as you see our team every year in Jupiter
First and Foremost-- A BASEBALL PLAYER IS A BASEBALL PLAYER
One other thing--MLB has the RBI Program and we have played their teams in various cities over the years---I just wonder why the program is such a well kept secret-- and didnt the Dodgers just open an academy on the West Coast
There are no excuses--it is just the way it is
PG
I am with you-- we never look at the color of the skin when selecting kids --the bottom line is can they play---some years we have more minorities with us than others and in other years the balance is reversed--you know this as you see our team every year in Jupiter
First and Foremost-- A BASEBALL PLAYER IS A BASEBALL PLAYER
One other thing--MLB has the RBI Program and we have played their teams in various cities over the years---I just wonder why the program is such a well kept secret-- and didnt the Dodgers just open an academy on the West Coast
There are no excuses--it is just the way it is
quote:The first step is to give kids a chance to love the game. It doesn't mean just black or white or hispanic kids... but as many kids as possible. Baseball is an easy game to love if you're exposed to it at a young age! It's not a color thing at all.
Excellent!
Pg and Tr and others have made good valid points.
On the Color issue, if one person was not a sports fan, but a racist, and he were to see Ortiz, Pujols, Shefield, A.J. Jones, Sabathia all standing together, would he know or care if they were from the states or the islands, and what language they were speaking?
On the issue of color only, baseball has over 50% people of color.
Now, of people of color from the US, its still higher than 20% as many hispanic people of color were born here. Because MLB numbers are 10% african american (a strange title in itself snce the islands are part of north america), then that is a reflection of the times and attitudes.
I recently approached an inner city group about putting back together the rbi league in Orlando, and they answered that they didn't have enough support for the white mans game. I gave my opinion that they could easily turn it into the black mans game if they wanted to.
Another gent responded that LeBron and others have given hope that a kid can make pro ball out of high school and that doesn't happen in baseball.
I told them it just proves that baseball is the toughest sport to adjust to.
They told me to check around elsewhere.
On the Color issue, if one person was not a sports fan, but a racist, and he were to see Ortiz, Pujols, Shefield, A.J. Jones, Sabathia all standing together, would he know or care if they were from the states or the islands, and what language they were speaking?
On the issue of color only, baseball has over 50% people of color.
Now, of people of color from the US, its still higher than 20% as many hispanic people of color were born here. Because MLB numbers are 10% african american (a strange title in itself snce the islands are part of north america), then that is a reflection of the times and attitudes.
I recently approached an inner city group about putting back together the rbi league in Orlando, and they answered that they didn't have enough support for the white mans game. I gave my opinion that they could easily turn it into the black mans game if they wanted to.
Another gent responded that LeBron and others have given hope that a kid can make pro ball out of high school and that doesn't happen in baseball.
I told them it just proves that baseball is the toughest sport to adjust to.
They told me to check around elsewhere.
Coachric
"WHITE MANS GAME" !!! Have they forgotten about the Negro Baseball League which had so many great players playing the "white mans game"--- what would the record books and Hall of Fame look like if we had not had bigotry and bias in our country for all those years
But then perhaps that is a reason for the low %--they do not see it as their game--they see basketball and football-- they being the black athlete
"WHITE MANS GAME" !!! Have they forgotten about the Negro Baseball League which had so many great players playing the "white mans game"--- what would the record books and Hall of Fame look like if we had not had bigotry and bias in our country for all those years
But then perhaps that is a reason for the low %--they do not see it as their game--they see basketball and football-- they being the black athlete
quote:they do not see it as their game--they see basketball and football-- they being the black athlete
Ahh...and there in lies the problem? Blacks play basketball and football and whites play baseball?? So...whites shouldn't try to play basketball and football and blacks shouldn't try to play baseball? How screwed up is that?
I am not saying one way or the other just expressing a thought--you have a better thought?
The opportunities are there in all sports for all players, regardless of race and creed--they, or their parents, simply make a choice.
What is the percentage of Jewish players in baseball? Or Italians? Or Germans?
Get my point---we a ll make choices--why arent you into basketball or football or s o c c e r instead of baseball? You made a choice
The opportunities are there in all sports for all players, regardless of race and creed--they, or their parents, simply make a choice.
What is the percentage of Jewish players in baseball? Or Italians? Or Germans?
Get my point---we a ll make choices--why arent you into basketball or football or s o c c e r instead of baseball? You made a choice
TR,
Sorry I wasn't clear in my post. I'm actually agreeing with ya.
Sorry I wasn't clear in my post. I'm actually agreeing with ya.
No problem TS
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/community/rbi.jsp
I have attempted to reply 5 separate times, only to clear my post each and every time in order to not be perceived incorrectly.
I have attempted to reply 5 separate times, only to clear my post each and every time in order to not be perceived incorrectly.
Another thought regarding decisions:
my own son as a soph HS basketball player had been contacted by Notre Dame, Duke, Louisville etc and was expected to be the best point guard in his high schools history. He decided after his soph year even with all the calls and letters to give up hoops and concentrate on baseball, his favorite sport not to mention he was expected to be no taller than 5-11
It is all about decisions, decisions and decisions
my own son as a soph HS basketball player had been contacted by Notre Dame, Duke, Louisville etc and was expected to be the best point guard in his high schools history. He decided after his soph year even with all the calls and letters to give up hoops and concentrate on baseball, his favorite sport not to mention he was expected to be no taller than 5-11
It is all about decisions, decisions and decisions
While we are talking about color. The NBA, NFL, MLB and every other sport takes a back seat to the percentages involved in the 100 meter dash! I don’t follow it as closely as before, but how many white Americans reach the top in that game.
Wait I forgot, the whites are better at long distance endurance type races. Wait again… Seems like those Kenyans dominate there as well and they look fairly dark skinned.
Games of skill like golf is where white people excel. Who’s that you say, Tiger who?
He should try Santa Clara… it worked out good for the NBA’s MVP the last two years. And he can’t jump like that!
Maybe someday, we can just watch the players and enjoy the talent. I’d like to believe we are headed in the right direction. The percentages we need to worry about the most is… how many among us, of any race or religion, are terrorist!
Wait I forgot, the whites are better at long distance endurance type races. Wait again… Seems like those Kenyans dominate there as well and they look fairly dark skinned.
Games of skill like golf is where white people excel. Who’s that you say, Tiger who?
quote:Imagine an outstanding white male athlete who can shoot lights out, has an independently measured 44" vertical leap running, which exceeds many NBA players, and is only about 6'2" tall.
Where should a profile like this play in college?
He should try Santa Clara… it worked out good for the NBA’s MVP the last two years. And he can’t jump like that!
Maybe someday, we can just watch the players and enjoy the talent. I’d like to believe we are headed in the right direction. The percentages we need to worry about the most is… how many among us, of any race or religion, are terrorist!
PG
Amen to that!!!!
Amen to that!!!!
As the parent of a non-black baseball at a HBCU, I have evolved see it as a matter of choice, and nothing the game should apologize for.
The players on the field show their love for the game every day. Perhaps we do a disservice to them when we say our game has not done enough to attract and recruit more diversity. Is it the fault of the non-white players there aren't more of them? No. They're out there loving the game just like the non-black kid next to him.
Often in front of crowds that barely break double digits.
Places to play might be an issue in cities, but how many dozens of empty fields do you see in the suburbs or out in the country every day?
If you build it, HE will come. Not THEY.
Baseball is like life -- you play every day. Sure, cultural factors work against the game. Economic factors work against the game. Sociological and heck, maybe even psychological factors work against the game.
Perhaps the best answer is: GET OVER IT.
Give me 6 percent of any population that loves, honors and respects the game over 70 percent of any population that just goes through the motions.
My hockey-playing son, if you asked him what his favorite baseball memory is, would tell you it was playing in a heavily Hispanic neighborhood in suburban Chicago. Drums, whistles, singing, name it ... one team was all-white (save one player) and the other non-white (save one player). It turned out to be a one-run game.
At the time, he was 9 years old.
The players on the field show their love for the game every day. Perhaps we do a disservice to them when we say our game has not done enough to attract and recruit more diversity. Is it the fault of the non-white players there aren't more of them? No. They're out there loving the game just like the non-black kid next to him.
Often in front of crowds that barely break double digits.
Places to play might be an issue in cities, but how many dozens of empty fields do you see in the suburbs or out in the country every day?
If you build it, HE will come. Not THEY.
Baseball is like life -- you play every day. Sure, cultural factors work against the game. Economic factors work against the game. Sociological and heck, maybe even psychological factors work against the game.
Perhaps the best answer is: GET OVER IT.
Give me 6 percent of any population that loves, honors and respects the game over 70 percent of any population that just goes through the motions.
My hockey-playing son, if you asked him what his favorite baseball memory is, would tell you it was playing in a heavily Hispanic neighborhood in suburban Chicago. Drums, whistles, singing, name it ... one team was all-white (save one player) and the other non-white (save one player). It turned out to be a one-run game.
At the time, he was 9 years old.