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NYC is different than almost every other place in the US in terms of population density, mass transit, etc.  it’s not just Maine. A lot of states have already hit their “peak”.  Our entire school district zip codes, which is 6A, has had 2 new cases in 3 weeks.  We have several places locally that are doing antibody tests and people are showing they have had it that don’t even know when they had it. 80% of people have mild cases. At this point it makes sense to protect the vulnerable and the rest start living.

 

we are all just repeating ourselves. It’s much like politics...no one is changing their minds.

James G posted:

Those models projecting the deaths, specifically the IHME model already took into account perfect social distancing measures through May. So when they said there would be 200K deaths, that was with them saying full complicit social distancing. So to go from 200 to 93 to 81 to 60K projection (for nation) does not make sense with saying it must be due to social distancing. They were projecting that in the model. And we all know many people aren't really following protocol- so I guess you can argue how that projection number shouldn't be HIGHER now. Something isn't making sense, and we aren't getting an explanation. It's one thing to take it serious, and it's another to make life altering decisions on projections that have been shown to be completely off multiple times in a row. 

O.k., I really wanted this thread to stick to how to re-start sports.  But...

None of this is a secret.  No-one is hiding anything.   IHME provides detailed explanations and updates about how they construct their models, what factors go into them, where their data comes from and how it changes, here: http://www.healthdata.org/covid/updates

When they say that the original models included social distancing, what they mean is that the formula they use built in social distancing as one of the factors right from the start, as in: (1) does a state have a stay-at-home rule (yes or no)?   (2) are people following the stay-at-home rule, and how much (%)?  It does NOT mean that they assumed from the start that social distancing was happening, it means that they included it as a factor in their formula.

I literally watched the IHME model.  On April 1, when Alabama did not have a stay-at-home rule, they were projecting over 2000 deaths.  On April 6, when Alabama did have a rule, it had gone down to fewer than 1000.  I wish I could remember the precise numbers, it was very striking. 

Actually baseballrecruit I never said it's a conspiracy, I hate those. I said something is amiss and we aren't getting answers yet. That is actually backed up by data and models that can't be disputed anymore. 

Somehow you are misconstruing my take as one that doesn't believe this is serious. And that's false. It is serious and many people have died like you said. My point, as well as other people, is that now (emphasis now) that we know more about what is happening it's time to make adjustments. We know that now we have treatments that work. We are learning now that it is not as deadly on a per capita basis as previously believed. It is perfectly acceptable to do both at the same time- put in measures to protect the most vulnerable and also put in measures to allow the public to work and support their families. Hopefully more testing will allow that soon and other measures so that individuals can make their own decisions on what they are comfortable doing. 

 

Last edited by James G
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:
RJM posted:
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:
RJM posted:
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:

Do you all realize what an absolute echo chamber this website has become? Group of 5-6 pro “let’s get back to normal now” posters, countered by a group of 5-6 “we have to be prudent” posters.

Fact of the matter is non of us really know jack sh1t about what the politicians are going to do about opening up the economy, and really, what impact opening the economy will even have on life. I can tell you this, my son’s university was very quick to get kids off campus and in an online classroom. Was this due to an incredible care for their students, faculty and staff health? Was it a premeditated move to alleviate themselves from culpability should they have an outbreak at the school and get sued by some who may contract it and die in that environment? Probably both. 

The biggest wildcard in all of this is not the economy, stupid. It’s human behavior and survival instinct. If, as seems to be playing out, 1/2 the nation’s population centers feel they need/want to practice social distancing and not put themselves at risk, for their own good or for society’s good, then that will still have an enormous impact on our economy. If the naysayers jump back in the pool in a reckless way, and this swings through their communities, then the ripple effect will take place. 

I think individual decisions on our comfort and willingness to accept risk are going to be a far bigger factor in how this all plays out economically than an arbitrary decision to restart the economy.

Do you thing losing jobs, going broke and losing homes will change social behavior? 40% of America can’t pay a surprise $1000 bill without pulling out a credit card.

When I saw what was coming I left my home in Massachusetts for my home in Maine. The death projection has been dropped from over 300 to sixty. One non elderly person without preexisting conditions in a nursing home has died. No one had died in two days. So what does the governor do yesterday? She thinks we’re NYC! She orders us to wear masks to enter grocery stores. There’s already a seventy customer limit in the store. The odds of a healthy person dying of COVID in Maine is five times less than being killed by a car crossing the street.

Do you think that perhaps those numbers are low because a large number of people are doing the appropriate things? Social distancing, washing hands...etc? There is cause and effect. 

Everything you’re suggesting was calculated into the originals numbers. The reality is COVID, while an issue wasn’t as much of an issue as was feared. The issue I have is you can’t treat Maine like it’s NYC. Portland, the largest city is very suburban. The population density is 3,000 per square miles. The suburb I grew up in Massachusetts is more populated and denser. NYC is 27,000 per square mile. 

The biggest issue is China wasn’t straight forward with data. We had no idea what occurred in densely populated areas versus less populated areas. Most importantly there are researchers who believe had China been honest from the beginning 95% of the deaths outside China could have been prevented.

RJM, I hear what you are saying, but it’s just not a simple problem, if it were we still would likely screw up our response to it. The world is a complicated place and the needs and desires of those in power positions with the influence to make policy decisions are usually skewed toward their own desired outcomes. Go to Vegas, don’t plan on coming back with all your money. The odds are always in favor of the house. Life is pretty similarly stacked.

You make matter of fact statements like COVID-19 wasn’t as much of an issue as was feared. Based on what? You want to tell the 17,000 families that lost their loved ones that they need to change their perspective? How about the tens of thousands who did survive it and their families that they were really blowing this whole thing out of proportion.

I say this in the most respectful of ways, as a Jew, you should maybe have a different perspective on this. How do you feel when you hear stories that people believe the holocaust was not as bad as it is said in the history books, or that it even happened at all?! Enraged I am sure, as you rightly should be. But I think you would agree that the re-writing of history is done with a political bias.

We aren’t even in the middle of this thing, so to say we are blowing it out of proportion is crazy to me. We had our largest, most densely populated city’s healthcare system brought to its proverbial knees by this. I don’t want to see what happens in other areas, but if what we have been doing slows down the spread and gives their healthcare systems a chance to ramp up before getting their test, then I say you are welcome and I am pleased to do it. Just because it isn’t happening or won’t be as widespread in Maine doesn’t lessen the significance of what is happening in other areas of the country. Maybe we should have just let herd immunity develop, but do you want to be a casualty of that for the convenience of people younger and healthier than you?

Selfishly, I want to see my children get married, have babies and then, maybe, I may be accepting of my final demise. Until then, I will do whatever I can to ensure I get to that point and I respect my fellow citizens enough to be a team player to help them get there too.

CBRG, if you are this worried perhaps you should stay inside with your family so you don't need to worry so much about what others are doing.  

Lashing out at another poster because you disagree and don’t have anything more to add to the debate was unnecessary. Comparing this situation to the Holocaust is absurd. Can you accept not everyone is going to agree with you? Can you accept no one has the high ground on this. It’s all opinion. One thing that’s not going to happen Dr Fauci would prefer ... we’re not shutting down until there’s a vaccine next year. 

Last edited by RJM

You don’t really hear anyone yelling “open the economy!!!!” from NYC right now... because they understand how bad this can get and what is really important...

For most of the country, though, we haven’t personally seen it get bad BECAUSE we were proactive and put into place strict measures to try to ensure it didn’t get bad...

I agree sooner or later there will be measures in place to get SOME businesses back up and running... but I don’t understand how some of you think we’re just going to flip the switch to back to normal.. 

Do you realize these areas where it’s not a big deal at all means that 95+% of people there haven’t been exposed to the virus!! So then once everything is reopened, and the virus inevitably spreads there, you have basically nobody there who is immune and a healthcare system that surely doesn’t have the resources available in NY, LA, etc.  

I’m still just unsure of how people aren’t understanding how dangerous this could be if we just went on with life as normal... 

 

baseballhs posted:

Because we can’t stay inside forever.  

Eventually, there will be mass testing available, as well as antibody testing and things will slowly start going back to normal...

 

until then, read a book, ride a bike, hike, play catch with your son, walk, run, binge Netflix, etc., and be thankful that you are healthy. 

James G posted:

Actually baseballrecruit I never said it's a conspiracy, I hate those. I said something is amiss and we aren't getting answers yet. That is actually backed up by data and models that can't be disputed anymore. 

Somehow you are misconstruing my take as one that doesn't believe this is serious. And that's false. It is serious and many people have died like you said. My point, as well as other people, is that now (emphasis now) that we know more about what is happening it's time to make adjustments. We know that now we have treatments that work. We are learning now that it is not as deadly on a per capita basis as previously believed. It is perfectly acceptable to do both at the same time- put in measures to protect the most vulnerable and also put in measures to allow the public to work and support their families. Hopefully more testing will allow that soon and other measures so that individuals can make their own decisions on what they are comfortable doing. 

 

As someone who deals with modeling a lot, and followed the IHME model itself, I can tell you why they overpredicted things.  They based their model on what happened in Europe, which in general, had a worse outbreak than we did in the US.  Being an informatics based model (one that uses existing results to make predictions versus ones that try to predict things outright), the more information they have, the better the model becomes.  Notice that they have a wide uncertainty in their model, in which our current situation was mostly likely within earlier estimates at the lower end.  The problem is when some media/people, often based on preconceived notions on both sides,  overstate the predictions.  They still have a fairly wide uncertainty in them.  I still prefer the IHME model myself as they do an excellent job of displaying their results in a way that is understandable, and they use existing data to make their predictions, which often has the least amount of bias in them.  Still, as with weather, they can't predict the future.  

Speaking of modeling, the weather forecast was pretty gloom and doom about today, and unfortunately, they were right.  My wife almost lost it when we lost power during remote vieweing the Easter Church service, her favorite of the year, after having to hunker down for half an hour before it due to tornado warnings.  I am still thankful that we only had to be stuck inside due to the virus, and lost power for a couple of hours due to severe weather, as things could have been much worse.  

Pipes2 posted:

You don’t really hear anyone yelling “open the economy!!!!” from NYC right now... because they understand how bad this can get and what is really important...

For most of the country, though, we haven’t personally seen it get bad BECAUSE we were proactive and put into place strict measures to try to ensure it didn’t get bad...

I agree sooner or later there will be measures in place to get SOME businesses back up and running... but I don’t understand how some of you think we’re just going to flip the switch to back to normal.. 

Do you realize these areas where it’s not a big deal at all means that 95+% of people there haven’t been exposed to the virus!! So then once everything is reopened, and the virus inevitably spreads there, you have basically nobody there who is immune and a healthcare system that surely doesn’t have the resources available in NY, LA, etc.  

I’m still just unsure of how people aren’t understanding how dangerous this could be if we just went on with life as normal... 

 

 First, your logic fits. But on one point there is some thought maybe a lot more people were exposed than we know and for most people COVID wasn’t that bad or they never knew they had it. If a lot of people actually had COVID it might be safer to restart life. 

I had lunch at Quincy Market/Faneuil Hall with friends when the International Biogen Conference was taking place across the street at the Marriott Union Wharf Conference Center. About 85 of the first 100 cases in Massachusetts traced back to that conference. 

A week later I had a bad sore throat. I was pay attention if it would turn into a cough. It didn’t. I didn’t have any listed COVID symptoms. I contacted the friends I dined with to see if they were ok. 

When I saw the shutdown coming I went to my home in Maine and stayed away from people for a week. When easy testing is available I’m curious to know if I had a slight case. When these tests become available I’m guessing a lot of more people had COVID than we were aware.

Last edited by RJM
RJM posted:
Pipes2 posted:

You don’t really hear anyone yelling “open the economy!!!!” from NYC right now... because they understand how bad this can get and what is really important...

For most of the country, though, we haven’t personally seen it get bad BECAUSE we were proactive and put into place strict measures to try to ensure it didn’t get bad...

I agree sooner or later there will be measures in place to get SOME businesses back up and running... but I don’t understand how some of you think we’re just going to flip the switch to back to normal.. 

Do you realize these areas where it’s not a big deal at all means that 95+% of people there haven’t been exposed to the virus!! So then once everything is reopened, and the virus inevitably spreads there, you have basically nobody there who is immune and a healthcare system that surely doesn’t have the resources available in NY, LA, etc.  

I’m still just unsure of how people aren’t understanding how dangerous this could be if we just went on with life as normal... 

 

 First, your logic fits. But on one point there is some thought maybe a lot more people were exposed than we know and for most people COVID wasn’t that bad or they never knew they had it. If a lot of people actually had COVID it might be safer to restart life. 

I had lunch at Quincy Market/Faneuil Hall with friends when the International Biogen Conference was taking place across the street at the Marriott Union Wharf Conference Center. About 85 of the first 100 cases in Massachusetts traced back to that conference. 

A week later I had a bad sore throat. I was pay attention if it would turn into a cough. It didn’t. I didn’t have any listed COVID symptoms. I contacted the friends I dined with to see if they were ok. 

When I saw the shutdown coming I went to my home in Maine and stayed away from people for a week. When easy testing is available I’m curious to know if I had a slight case. When these tests become available I’m guessing a lot of more people had COVID than we were aware.

“Maybe” “I’m guessing” “I saw the shut down coming” ...dude, you try to put yourself at basically ground zero, implicate yourself due to a sore throat, then say everything is overblown but you bugged out to freaking Maine? Are you kidding me? Thank God you aren’t leading us through anything more than a fiction novel of how you were out in front of this whole thing....

RJM posted:

 First, your logic fits. But on one point there is some thought maybe a lot more people were exposed than we know and for most people COVID wasn’t that bad or they never knew they had it. If a lot of people actually had COVID it might be safer to restart life.

I hope you are right.  Because then sports could re-start.  My son flew home on 2 planes from college, from a fairly high-risk state.  We quarantined him at home.  3 days after he got back, he had a slight sore throat and felt under the weather for about 3 days.  He has been fine since.  I really do hope he had it and didn't know it, then he could go out and play baseball again (or just do grocery shopping for us); those antibody tests will tell us, if they actually do them on lots of people.

If that were actually the case, you could put together teams of players who all had antibodies.  Maybe then there would be a few games of baseball, somewhere.

Until there is more testing, we are just arguing, more and more furiously, over hypotheticals.

collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:
RJM posted:
Pipes2 posted:

You don’t really hear anyone yelling “open the economy!!!!” from NYC right now... because they understand how bad this can get and what is really important...

For most of the country, though, we haven’t personally seen it get bad BECAUSE we were proactive and put into place strict measures to try to ensure it didn’t get bad...

I agree sooner or later there will be measures in place to get SOME businesses back up and running... but I don’t understand how some of you think we’re just going to flip the switch to back to normal.. 

Do you realize these areas where it’s not a big deal at all means that 95+% of people there haven’t been exposed to the virus!! So then once everything is reopened, and the virus inevitably spreads there, you have basically nobody there who is immune and a healthcare system that surely doesn’t have the resources available in NY, LA, etc.  

I’m still just unsure of how people aren’t understanding how dangerous this could be if we just went on with life as normal... 

 

 First, your logic fits. But on one point there is some thought maybe a lot more people were exposed than we know and for most people COVID wasn’t that bad or they never knew they had it. If a lot of people actually had COVID it might be safer to restart life. 

I had lunch at Quincy Market/Faneuil Hall with friends when the International Biogen Conference was taking place across the street at the Marriott Union Wharf Conference Center. About 85 of the first 100 cases in Massachusetts traced back to that conference. 

A week later I had a bad sore throat. I was pay attention if it would turn into a cough. It didn’t. I didn’t have any listed COVID symptoms. I contacted the friends I dined with to see if they were ok. 

When I saw the shutdown coming I went to my home in Maine and stayed away from people for a week. When easy testing is available I’m curious to know if I had a slight case. When these tests become available I’m guessing a lot of more people had COVID than we were aware.

“Maybe” “I’m guessing” “I saw the shut down coming” ...dude, you try to put yourself at basically ground zero, implicate yourself due to a sore throat, then say everything is overblown but you bugged out to freaking Maine? Are you kidding me? Thank God you aren’t leading us through anything more than a fiction novel of how you were out in front of this whole thing....

CBRG - please read your last 8-9 comments.  There is a spectrum of opinions on this board from open the economy now to stay in until there is a vaccine.   You state your opinions strongly but it feels like you don't leave room for people that have different and legitimate opinions. If someone doesn't agree with you they are not evil, or conspiracy theorists, uneducated, ill-informed or from a "red state" etc.  I am not saying you said all those things but you have implied or directly stated quite a few of those things.

IMO the best comment on this thread or the 6 pages on the other thread is from baseballhs  - we are all just repeating ourselves. It’s much like politics...no one is changing minds.

Maybe its time we all social distance from the Covid conversation.....
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:
RJM posted:
Pipes2 posted:

You don’t really hear anyone yelling “open the economy!!!!” from NYC right now... because they understand how bad this can get and what is really important...

For most of the country, though, we haven’t personally seen it get bad BECAUSE we were proactive and put into place strict measures to try to ensure it didn’t get bad...

I agree sooner or later there will be measures in place to get SOME businesses back up and running... but I don’t understand how some of you think we’re just going to flip the switch to back to normal.. 

Do you realize these areas where it’s not a big deal at all means that 95+% of people there haven’t been exposed to the virus!! So then once everything is reopened, and the virus inevitably spreads there, you have basically nobody there who is immune and a healthcare system that surely doesn’t have the resources available in NY, LA, etc.  

I’m still just unsure of how people aren’t understanding how dangerous this could be if we just went on with life as normal... 

 

 First, your logic fits. But on one point there is some thought maybe a lot more people were exposed than we know and for most people COVID wasn’t that bad or they never knew they had it. If a lot of people actually had COVID it might be safer to restart life. 

I had lunch at Quincy Market/Faneuil Hall with friends when the International Biogen Conference was taking place across the street at the Marriott Union Wharf Conference Center. About 85 of the first 100 cases in Massachusetts traced back to that conference. 

A week later I had a bad sore throat. I was pay attention if it would turn into a cough. It didn’t. I didn’t have any listed COVID symptoms. I contacted the friends I dined with to see if they were ok. 

When I saw the shutdown coming I went to my home in Maine and stayed away from people for a week. When easy testing is available I’m curious to know if I had a slight case. When these tests become available I’m guessing a lot of more people had COVID than we were aware.

“Maybe” “I’m guessing” “I saw the shut down coming” ...dude, you try to put yourself at basically ground zero, implicate yourself due to a sore throat, then say everything is overblown but you bugged out to freaking Maine? Are you kidding me? Thank God you aren’t leading us through anything more than a fiction novel of how you were out in front of this whole thing....

There you go lashing out and getting personal again. Do you need to be sedated? 

I still feel overall the situation has been overstated. Don’t mistake what I’ve posted with there aren’t some hot spots. But the initial numbers were the possibility of two million deaths. Then it was 240,000 to 400,000 if we social distance. Then it went from 97,000, to 80,000 to 60,000. From 240,000 to 400,000 is grossly overstating the situation. 

Leaving a hot spot that is very much an international city for a more suburban-rural area makes sense. I never said there wasn’t a problem. What I saw coming was a shut down in Massachusetts. I thought I would have more freedom to move around in Maine. How did I know the governor was going to treat Maine like it’s NYC?

Now pull those bunched up shorts down, relax and stop attacking everyone who doesn’t see the world exactly as you do. You’re so out of control you’re picking and choosing phrases and taking them out of context in order to attack other posters. SETTLE DOWN!

Last edited by RJM
Pipes2 posted:

You don’t really hear anyone yelling “open the economy!!!!” from NYC right now... because they understand how bad this can get and what is really important...

For most of the country, though, we haven’t personally seen it get bad BECAUSE we were proactive and put into place strict measures to try to ensure it didn’t get bad...

I agree sooner or later there will be measures in place to get SOME businesses back up and running... but I don’t understand how some of you think we’re just going to flip the switch to back to normal.. 

Do you realize these areas where it’s not a big deal at all means that 95+% of people there haven’t been exposed to the virus!! So then once everything is reopened, and the virus inevitably spreads there, you have basically nobody there who is immune and a healthcare system that surely doesn’t have the resources available in NY, LA, etc.  

I’m still just unsure of how people aren’t understanding how dangerous this could be if we just went on with life as normal... 

 

I haven’t talked to a single person and don’t recall seeing on this board anyone that believes we will flip a switch and return to normal. We can however start to slowly return some activities and businesses slowly while we learn to adjust. It will be far from normal and everyone knows it. 

anotherparent posted:
RJM posted:

 First, your logic fits. But on one point there is some thought maybe a lot more people were exposed than we know and for most people COVID wasn’t that bad or they never knew they had it. If a lot of people actually had COVID it might be safer to restart life.

I hope you are right.  Because then sports could re-start.  My son flew home on 2 planes from college, from a fairly high-risk state.  We quarantined him at home.  3 days after he got back, he had a slight sore throat and felt under the weather for about 3 days.  He has been fine since.  I really do hope he had it and didn't know it, then he could go out and play baseball again (or just do grocery shopping for us); those antibody tests will tell us, if they actually do them on lots of people.

If that were actually the case, you could put together teams of players who all had antibodies.  Maybe then there would be a few games of baseball, somewhere.

Until there is more testing, we are just arguing, more and more furiously, over hypotheticals.

I’m not all in on anything the Boston Globe presents. But here’s a general idea on herd immunity. From other articles I’ve read according to the experts there’s much to debate ...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/20...tten-curve-too-long/

Heres another article from Channel 7 abc Bay Area on research Stanford is doing ...

https://abc7news.com/how-does-...rus-what-is/6093881/

Last edited by RJM

This entire situation remains very fluid.

The Dakotas have done no social isolation. Now one of their large employers, and one of the large pork producers in the Country is shutting for at least 14 days because nearly 10% of their employee population is now infected .

Seems to me too much of the Country continues to play catch up. Until there is a huge increase in testing, (which should have been done already)getting out in front rather than reacting much too late, (which should have been done already)and knowing much more about the disease and who it attacks and why, which will take time, a policy of isolation is medically prudent as Dr. Fauci continues to advocate.

Seems to me there isn’t a single poster here who knows what inning we are in. Taking a baseball analogy, it isn’t clear anyplace in the Country is ready to bring in their closer, or whether to even get him warmed up!

 

infielddad posted:

This entire situation remains very fluid.

The Dakotas have done no social isolation. Now one of their large employers, and one of the large pork producers in the Country is shutting for at least 14 days because nearly 10% of their employee population is now infected .

Seems to me too much of the Country continues to play catch up. Until there is a huge increase in testing, (which should have been done already)getting out in front rather than reacting much too late, (which should have been done already)and knowing much more about the disease and who it attacks and why, which will take time, a policy of isolation is medically prudent as Dr. Fauci continues to advocate.

Seems to me there isn’t a single poster here who knows what inning we are in. Taking a baseball analogy, it isn’t clear anyplace in the Country is ready to bring in their closer, or whether to even get him warmed up!

 

Amen.   Until everyone is tested the medical authorities (and gov't) are in reactionary mode.   I get what Dr Fauci is doing.   Social distancing is helping to lighten the immediate load on the hospitals.   Over time (assuming social-distancing remains in effect) the spread of the virus should slow.

I agree more testing is needed.   And not just those that are displaying symptoms.   Everyone. Should. Be. Tested.   How many are asymptomatic (displaying no symptoms but have the virus)?   How many have recovered and how many have not been exposed?

My guess is we are in the early innings.

infielddad posted:

This entire situation remains very fluid.

The Dakotas have done no social isolation. Now one of their large employers, and one of the large pork producers in the Country is shutting for at least 14 days because nearly 10% of their employee population is now infected .

Seems to me too much of the Country continues to play catch up. Until there is a huge increase in testing, (which should have been done already)getting out in front rather than reacting much too late, (which should have been done already)and knowing much more about the disease and who it attacks and why, which will take time, a policy of isolation is medically prudent as Dr. Fauci continues to advocate.

Seems to me there isn’t a single poster here who knows what inning we are in. Taking a baseball analogy, it isn’t clear anyplace in the Country is ready to bring in their closer, or whether to even get him warmed up!

 

Florida had opened up a lot of free testing sites.  Many where in my county because we became a hot spot  quickly  (thank you spring breakers and cruise enthusiasts) .

Many have closed down, and now you can't get a test unless you have symptoms (which includes fever) a prescription from your doctor or pay 300 for the test up front.  This means that 100s of people who are asymptomatic, unless they self quarantine,  could still infect others.

Not that there is any place to go.  But we will never overcome this until everyone, yes everyone, is tested or a vaccine is developed.

 

 

 

I’m not financially affected by the situation with the exception of the stock market. If my business goes under I retire. Half my clients told me they doubt they can survive three months shut down.

A lot of people are suffering financially. I’ll bet no one suffering financially is for waiting for complete testing. They want to go back to work before the company they work for goes out of business and the job doesn’t exist.

Here’s another perspective ...

https://www.aier.org/article/t...n-liberation-is-now/

Last edited by RJM

Texas Governor Abbott is supposed to release a statement this week with his game plan for opening back up the Texas economy. He said it will be a slow roll out and not all businesses will re-open at the same time. It sounds like they will look to re-open small businesses first as he announced today $50M in loans to small businesses. Will be interesting to see what the game plan will be to open the state back up and if that does trickle over into other aspects of life. 

I think many others are just waiting for someone to do it.  It will be the reverse of closing down.  When one closed down, the others began to get pressure to do the same.  This could be the opposite affect.  When some begin to open back up there will be pressure for others to open up.  I know the South Carolina governor was slow to close and is already getting pressure to open back up.  I would think when businesses open back up, especially the ones that are close nature like barbershops and salons, nail salons, and sports won't be far behind.  I don't know if it will be good or bad and I don't know that we will ever know what worked and what didn't.  JMO and guesses.

Last edited by PitchingFan
TPM posted:

When are they going to provide enough tests for everyone before they decide to re open the government? 

Never. 325 million people, it's unrealistic. Tough choices will have to be made and unfortunately people will have to deal with consequences. Unless they can afford to not work and live off unemployment for a year or more. 

On a more positive note, Massachusetts Interscholastic Athletic Association had a board meeting today and passed the spring sport tournament structure. In a nutshell, June 12th is the cut off to get in any regular season games. Tournament seeding on June 13th. Tournaments to be played June 15th through June 27th.  So they are keeping some hope alive for the MA high school athletes. 

James G posted:
TPM posted:

When are they going to provide enough tests for everyone before they decide to re open the government? 

Never. 325 million people, it's unrealistic. Tough choices will have to be made and unfortunately people will have to deal with consequences. Unless they can afford to not work and live off unemployment for a year or more. 

Oh I get it, just like "anyone can have a test if they want it".

 

I get the feeling there are two camps. One believes everyone has to be tested before the country reopens. Not going to happen.

Another camp thinks once people go back to work life will open up and normalcy will return. Not going to happen. 

What I believe will happen is business will evaluate who can work at home and who has to be in the office or on site. There will be consideration on how to distance employees. I believe entertainment will be months behind for distancing reasons. Unfortunately these are people who also work. 

I left my MA home for my ME home due to population density differences. ME has very few deaths. Based on the curve downslope ME should start to open May 1-7. 

The problem is what if ME completely opens up while MA is three weeks behind on the curve? The last thing ME needs is MA people, where it’s a COVID hotspot flocking to ME to dine out. It’s only 100 miles from greater Boston to Portland. It’s only 20 miles from border to border. 

RJM posted:

I get the feeling there are two camps. One believes everyone has to be tested before the country reopens. Not going to happen.

Another camp thinks once people go back to work life will open up and normalcy will return. Not going to happen. 

What I believe will happen is business will evaluate who can work at home and who has to be in the office or on site. There will be consideration on how to distance employees. I believe entertainment will be months behind for distancing reasons. Unfortunately these are people who also work. 

I left my MA home for my ME home due to population density differences. ME has very few deaths. Based on the curve downslope ME should start to open May 1-7. 

The problem is what if ME completely opens up while MA is three weeks behind on the curve? The last thing ME needs is MA people, where it’s a COVID hotspot flocking to ME to dine out. It’s only 100 miles from greater Boston to Portland. It’s only 20 miles from border to border. 

I would add a third group, the people that are in agreement with you. There are a lot of people that understand normal is going to be far from normal. A lot of businesses are working on plans to keep their customers distanced and to keep their employees safe. 

It seems like the focus of the shutdown has shifted in some people’s minds from slowing the spread and flattening the curve to keeping people in hiding until it is completely safe to come out. That isn’t realistic and it’s possible there will never be a vaccine. 

RJM posted:

I left my MA home for my ME home due to population density differences. ME has very few deaths. Based on the curve downslope ME should start to open May 1-7. 

The problem is what if ME completely opens up while MA is three weeks behind on the curve? The last thing ME needs is MA people, where it’s a COVID hotspot flocking to ME to dine out. It’s only 100 miles from greater Boston to Portland. It’s only 20 miles from border to border. 

Is there any reason why you keep going on and on about this? I mean consider yourself lucky that you have these options and let it go already.

 

I don't think it's as cut and dried at all.  Antibody testing is beginning; we should know something in a couple of weeks, I don't mean testing everyone, but the trials are going to give a sense of what infection rates look like.  That will guide some action.  Medical testing of remedies is ongoing, there should be results for some of them in a few weeks.  That will also guide some thinking.  If, for example, blood plasma transfusions actually work, that would be something, but it would take a while to get it going on a large scale.  In my state, they have put out a call for donors, but the requirement is that you've tested positive, and they have tested so few people in our state that there are relatively few positives. 

So, my hope is that wiser heads at all levels are going to realize that we've only been at this for 4 weeks, that there are many things that could happen to change the trajectory.  I am hopeful that something new will be added to what we already think we know.

infielddad posted:

This entire situation remains very fluid.

The Dakotas have done no social isolation. Now one of their large employers, and one of the large pork producers in the Country is shutting for at least 14 days because nearly 10% of their employee population is now infected .

Seems to me too much of the Country continues to play catch up. Until there is a huge increase in testing, (which should have been done already)getting out in front rather than reacting much too late, (which should have been done already)and knowing much more about the disease and who it attacks and why, which will take time, a policy of isolation is medically prudent as Dr. Fauci continues to advocate.

Seems to me there isn’t a single poster here who knows what inning we are in. Taking a baseball analogy, it isn’t clear anyplace in the Country is ready to bring in their closer, or whether to even get him warmed up!

 

I guess I can speak for “The Dakota’s”😉.  We are practicing social distancing.    It is not state mandated.  Restaurants, hair salons, schools etc are closed but a lot are still working.  I am interested to see how the next few weeks go for us.     Smithfield’s meat processing plant is in Sioux Falls SD.  Smithfield’s is owned by a Chinese company BTW.    

TPM posted:
RJM posted:

I left my MA home for my ME home due to population density differences. ME has very few deaths. Based on the curve downslope ME should start to open May 1-7. 

The problem is what if ME completely opens up while MA is three weeks behind on the curve? The last thing ME needs is MA people, where it’s a COVID hotspot flocking to ME to dine out. It’s only 100 miles from greater Boston to Portland. It’s only 20 miles from border to border. 

Is there any reason why you keep going on and on about this? I mean consider yourself lucky that you have these options and let it go already.

 

I’m sorry officer TPM. This is the first time I’ve made the points regarding downslope and one state opening and residents from a nearby hot spot state invading it to get out.

Objection denied.

Last edited by RJM
TerribleBPthrower posted:
RJM posted:

 

I would add a third group, the people that are in agreement with you. There are a lot of people that understand normal is going to be far from normal. A lot of businesses are working on plans to keep their customers distanced and to keep their employees safe. 

This is spot on, things are not going to be normal for a long time...and we are going to reopen long before there is testing for all and a vaccine. I think both of those are 100%. We don't have choice, we will all be dead by following the current course we are on, my God even that jackass in NJ and the pack of governors in the NE are aware of this. as if there has ever been worse group of humans to form a conglomerate sine the advent of the Mafia. 

MLB commissioner Rob Manfred revealed Tuesday on FOX Business the league only has made one real decision as it relates to the 2020 season.

“Most important, the only decision that we have made — the only real plan that we have — is that baseball is not going to return until the public health situation has improved to the point that we’re comfortable that we can play games in a manner that’s safe for our players, our employees, our fans and in a way that will not impact the public health situation adversely,”

Read more at: https://nesn.com/2020/04/rob-m...oronavirus-pandemic/

Last edited by RJM

Your post is the classic ”I’ve run out of arguments” post from someone who has been told by several posters to chill out. You’ve run out of message so it’s time to attack the messenger. Thanks for the personal attack. It says a lot about you. Are you aware you’ve been attacking with personal attacks and insults everyone who has disagreed with you the past few days?

i don’t owe you explanation. But I’ll provide one. Then, moving forward I’ll make every attempt to ignore your irrelevant rage and rantings.

I don’t know what posts people read and which ones they don’t. So one each new point I’ve made I’ve tied it back to the move to help the explanation. 

I’ve also lived in CA for 22 years and PA for 18. It’s longer than I lived in MA. Given I also lived in CT and ME growing up I tell people I grew up in New England. So take a look in the mirror, remove the M you attached to the insult you directed at me and see yourself.

You have crossed the line with too many other posters and me over the past few days. I’ve had enough. Have a nice day! Don’t forget to take your meds. You obviously haven’t been taking them the past few days. 

Last edited by RJM
RJM posted:

Your post is the classic ”I’ve run out of arguments” post from someone who has been told by several posters to chill out. You’ve run out of message so it’s time to attack the messenger. Thanks for the personal attack. It says a lot about you. Are you aware you’ve been attacking with personal attacks and insults everyone who has disagreed with you the past few days?

i don’t owe you explanation. But I’ll provide one. Then, moving forward I’ll make every attempt to ignore your irrelevant rage and rantings.

I don’t know what posts people read and which ones they don’t. So one each new point I’ve made I’ve tied it back to the move to help the explanation. 

I’ve also lived in CA for 22 years and PA for 18. It’s longer than I lived in MA. Given I also lived in CT and ME growing up I tell people I grew up in New England. So take a look in the mirror, remove the M you attached to the insult you directed at me and see yourself.

You have crossed the line with too many other posters and me over the past few days. I’ve had enough. Have a nice day! Don’t forget to take your meds. You obviously haven’t been taking them the past few days. 

You really need to lighten up old man, it’s a joke...

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