Wood vs. Metal - chapter 35

Every see a metal bat shatter?

It happens often here in the Northeast spring cold

Talk about missles

Actually I can't remember ever seeing that happen. That sounds dangerous! I have seen them break though, but only about twice.

TR: I've also seen a metal bat shatter in cold weather. We were pretty surprised when it happened.

Metal bats are typically not guaranteed in weather under sixty degrees. A couple of years ago my son's high school team broke three DeMarinis. They have a reputation of often not holding up in cold weather. Two of the bats split. One shattered. There is a warning on the wrapper or a peel off on metal bats when purchased. I believe it only mentions the guarantee, not a safety warning.

quote:

Do hitters hit better with wood or metal?

Uh, can I get back to you on that?

Hey, do you remember the days of putting a screw in your broken wood bat to get a few more miles out of it? Now THAT...was probably dangerous (somehow?).

Sorry, just can't get my aging mindset out of the 'good ole days!'

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:

Do hitters hit better with wood or metal?

Good question PG.

I don't know much about hitting, but I am assuming that a good hitter would hit well with both and the power hitter would be more dangerous with wood or metal.

I am going to say that the danger lies within how hard the pitch is delivered, more so than anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Every see a metal bat shatter?

Yes

A -9? What was that for, the 13U age group?

I hit better with metal or composite then wood.

I think the easiest way to answer do players hit better with metal or wood is to take the stats of the top college players during their season (if they use metal) and compare to their summer stats if they play with wood, i.e. Cape Cod League.

I bet a burger and a Bud they are much lower in the summer.

Let face it, the question was asked in jest.

Of course hitters hit better w metal, but are they better hitters w metal?

Riddle me that?

My answer; no.

I believe PG was referring to the safety of metal vs wood. From what I have read a typical Aluminum bat will have a ball velocity of 10-15MPH greater than a typical wood bat. A pitcher is about 50feet away and this would give him around 0.5 secs for a 100MPH hit ball. Using the upper end of the range he would have 0.435 secs for a 115MPH ball. The question is how much safety does the 0.065 seconds afford?

I don’t know the answer to the question and the statistics are frankly not very good in this area. The consumer product safety council has indicated that there were 17 deaths due to a batted ball from 1991-2001. (ref. below) It is really unknown if wood bats would have prevented any of these death’s (actually 2 were with wood). I am sure if you were the parent of one of these boys you would have preferred the batter having a wood bat in his hand as maybe the 0.065 second might have saved his life.

I believe the cat is finally out of the bag on this one and eventually colleges will go to wood, which will help get wood back in HS. This is going to take years, but IMO it will come over time.

From a personal experience my son has not picked up his composite bat since June and all of the games this summer and fall were quite enjoyable. (I walked by last night sitting up in the corner of his room, it is not even in his bag) It will be interested to see the difference in his hitting once the HS winter ball games start up later in the month.

Ref:

http://www.helenair.com/lifest...2a-d01450fde554.html

I have read that composite bats were banned by the NCAA and HS BB.
Patch was hit in the temple and there would be similar results with wood.
The verdict stated that he didn't have time to set up defensively. If he pitched to be in a defensive stance that results would have been different in my opinion. Anyone who turns off to the side after release is out of position and opening themselves up to taking a ball in the side of the head.
It was also stated the the ball came off the bat at 99.8 mph. I also assume the ball would slow down approx 1 mph per 5 feet travelled.

quote:

If he pitched to be in a defensive stance th(en) results would have been different in my opinion.

The most utterly ridiculous statement I have read on here in sometime.

Do you know how the kid set up after he pitched? On that play? Do you really?

Lets blame the kid.

I knew you would like it.

All this discussion about metal vs wood and the various legal actions makes for some very good reading and very spirited at times. ! Personally, I hate to see such legal actions playing out and probably have impact up and down the line (t-ball to college that is) but at the older age levels something needs to happen to help protect players at most risk. I will not venture a position on the outcome here.

As to PG's question I would like to add a clarification to the point. It seems to me that in little league (12U) metal bats put more balls in play which is more fun for everyone. Dinks with a metal bat become hits where they would probably be an out with a wood bat; that is if the play is made without an error. Up to this age kids don't seem strong enough to really put enough on the ball to really hurt a kid in the field except for maybe the pitcher. At 46 feet the kid that barely makes the age cutoff for 12u could possibly put enough behind the ball to catch a pitcher in the head or chest.

I am struggling with whether 13u, 14u and 15u is better with wood or metal. I say metal because of the same reason as little league, it puts more balls into play and makes it more fun for everyone, except maybe the pitcher that keeps giving up hits when they might be outs with wood.

IMHO, I see the real battle for metal vs wood is for 16u up through the college level. I believe most of the kids that have a desire to keep playing will do so regardless of which kind of bat is used. This is also the point where kids are developing enough power to accelerate the ball towards the pitcher regardless of metal or wood. I prefer wood because I am too old to have played with metal and I like the sound better.

IMO we should look at how to better protect the pitcher. While others on the field are at risk, the pitcher seems to be exposed to the most risk. Well, I guess the bases coaches are also at risk but they are wearing helmets at the college level now and will likely affect high school base coaches too. To me I see no difference in the ability of those strongest batters to hit the ball hard enough whether its wood or metal. Even if you are not the strongest batter; you hit the sweat spot with a high velocity swing line drive and the pitcher is the one with the most risk to get hurt.

I know in little league pitchers are wearing a chest protector and I've also seen some wearing a helmet. I'm not suggesting that older pitchers do this as well, but it seems something could be developed to reduce the risk to the ones at most risk. Heck, I can't even get my son to wear a cup while on the mound. I don't see him wearing a "protector" on the other head either. But something should be available for them if they want it. Make it mandatory? That is the only way most would wear it!

I used to believe that a ball hit on the exact sweet spot with a wood bat would be about the same velocity and carry the same distance as if it were hit with metal.

Since then, we have been educated and realize there is a big difference. When you have BP with wood and see the results and then the very same players are in a home run contest with metal, things become very obvious. Balls were leaving the park with the wood, but going upper deck with metal.

None upper deck with wood (not even close), many upper deck with metal… Same hitters… different bat… at the Metrodome in Minneapolis, MN.

My original question do hitters hit better with metal or wood? Well there are a few hitters who appear to hit better with wood, but we all know there is much more offense with metal. Therefore, more balls are hit well with metal! The more often that balls are hit well the more dangerous it becomes for those standing closest to the hitter.

Regarding the statistics on injury or death… They are misleading in my estimation. There have been many pitchers injured by balls hit off a wood bat. Most of those injuries happen to professional players or others who play at a higher level because that is the place where wood bat are used most often. So those hitters are amongst the best, pros, best college, best amateurs, and the strongest, thus most likely to cause injury with a ball hit off any type bat. Also the pitchers throw harder at those levels which makes impact greater when the ball is squared up. Obviously the very best hitters in the world end up hitting with wood. (Thank God)

On the other hand, the rest amateur baseball uses metal. So those injury statistics are based on a different group of athletes. Some, especially in college, who will become wood bat professionals and those guys even, know how dangerous it can get when they hit the ball squarely. It is down right scary!

I understand that statistics are used for insurance purposes. But in this case I think “eyes” should easily determine the difference between wood and metal. And the statistics that are even harder to debate (though I think someone will) is… It has been absolutely proven that there is more hitting and scoring, with more balls hit hard, when using metal bats. This can only mean that there is a better chance of something very bad happening with metal than with wood. I believe if the Major Leagues went to metal this would become very apparent in short order.

All that said, statistically, it appears that it is a fairly safe game either way. However, those statistics can only mean something if all players (highest to lowest levels) were using the same bat. Then we would be comparing apples to apples. There are thousands of young kids using metal who can’t possibly hit a ball hard enough to cause serious damage. Nearly every player who uses wood can hit the ball that hard… and with metal they would hit it even harder and worse yet, hit it harder more often. Maybe not real scientific, but not being very smart, I have to rely on common sense.

AL MA 08,

I agree completely regarding protecting the pitcher. Oddly enough there is a new batting helmet that provides nearly twice the protection against head injury, but some MLB hitters have said they would never use it.