"Would you consider a walk on roster spot?".

Understand that your son will not have an athletic scholarship of any type and can be cut from the team,before he arrives, after first semester and before season begins. Refresh memory, what year is he heading into?  Don't accept this type of offer too early. 

If the objective is to let baseball pay for his education, see how much he is eligible for. He is not bound by any written agreement, and if offered another opportunity at another program with athletic aid, he can accept with no consequences.

Has he asked if there might be money after his first year?

If he's receiving other athletic offers from similar programs it may be this one is just out of money for the year. Otherwise, it's a huge risk for the player with the coach having no skin (scholarship money) in the game. He could be third string insurance for a year or two before other recruits replace him on the roster. I've seen it happen multiple times.

Hi guys. Thanks for the feedback.

Son is a rising Senior. He has not made any commitments yet.

He is talking with several schools at all levels. Things seem to be just starting to heat up.

If, at the end of the day, he isn't getting other offers and has to consider walk on offers, there are things he should know.  You said "he can try to walk on anywhere".  There is a big difference between preferred walk on with guaranteed roster spot and a true walk on.  There are also varying degrees of assurances with preferred walk on.  He may be guaranteed a look through the fall.  He may get a guaranteed Spring roster spot.  A guaranteed roster spot at least comes with some commitment on the team's part. 

The part that raises an eyebrow for me is that you said this was offered via text.  That just seems wrong.  Players I know who were given interest via walk on were talked to either face to face or at least via a phone conversation with explanation of what the "offer" meant.  A player is FAR more likely to make it as a preferred walk on vs a true walk on.

Of course it's better if you have a $$ offer, both from a $$ standpoint and a school commitment standpoint.  But it's certainly not uncommon for players to be brought on as walk ons.  And most $$ often comes via academic and other buckets.

cabbagedad posted:

If, at the end of the day, if he isn't getting other offers and has to consider walk on offers, there are things he should know.  You said "he can try to walk on anywhere".  There is a big difference between preferred walk on with guaranteed roster spot and a true walk on.  There are also varying degrees of assurances with preferred walk on.  He may be guaranteed a look through the fall.  He may get a guaranteed Spring roster spot.  A guaranteed roster spot at least comes with some commitment on the team's part. 

The part that raises an eyebrow for me is that you said this was offered via text.  That just seems wrong.  Players I know who were given interest via walk on were talked to either face to face or at least via a phone conversation with explanation of what the "offer" meant.  A player is FAR more likely to make it as a preferred walk on vs a true walk on.

Of course it's better if you have a $$ offer, both from a $$ standpoint and a school commitment standpoint.  But it's certainly not uncommon for players to be brought on as walk ons.  And most $$ often comes via academic and other buckets.

 

Thanks for the feedback. The guaranteed roster spot is what I am most interested in as well. What "guarantee" is there in any verbal commitment?

I have confidence in my son's ability at this level. If the money is right, frankly I don't care if it's academic or athletic, if he gets himself a good package at a good school. I think his expectations are properly aligned. He knows he may end up buried in the bullpen at a D1, vs being a contributor or starter at a D2 or D3. We had the talk abt how everyone want to play as long as they can. Everyone eventually hits their ceiling.

RE: text communication, I am not terribly concerned. This coach has been texting back and forth with my son pretty regularly since he attended their winter camp. Coach has shown interest all along, and now that Junior year transcripts are available, we are at the next phase in the dance. I think he is testing the waters. I imagine we will need to have a proper campus visit and formal sit down to iron things out.

I imagine this is a negotiation just like any other. Coach want to get the best deal he can, as does the student athlete. I just want to be as informed as I can abt what exactly this type of offer means.

I would push for at least a 1/4 Athletic Scholarship.  As RJM wisely said, you want to have some leverage, some "skin in the game" from the school.   Of c, urse if the school isn't in a Power 5 conference, the athletic scholarship can be revoked after 1 year anyways.

As cabbagedad pointed out,  there is in fact a big difference between a true 'walk on' and a 'preferred walk on' . A preferred walk on has a guaranteed roster spot thru the spring.

Also, with a rising senior the clock is ticking. You need to seriously consider everything . But I would not agree to a 'walk on' . ' Preferred walk on ' yes.....Regular 'walk on' No. The issue for a rising Senior is that most of the better D1 programs are done with recruiting the 2018 class. That being said, D2 programs notoriously recruit 2018's now. They recruit late . And it's sort of smart in the sense that they are looking for talented 18's that got overlooked or can't get roster spots because of rival D1 budget limitations.

Coastal Carolina won the CWS last year w/ 5 starters on the roster that were ' academic money' guys. Preferred walk on are a vital part of NCAA baseball. The truth is that the Baseball money only guarantees your 1st year. After the 1st season both player and coach understand where the player fits and it really doesn't matter if you're a scholarship'd player or not.

NCAA HC's play the guys that help them win games. Period. It doesn't matter if you've got baseball money or not.

Also, most programs are NOT fully funded. That means most do not have 11.7 scholarships to divide and carve up. Most D1 programs are at the 7-9 scholarship mark.

CMASSRHPDAD,

There are a couple universal principles that I've seen time and time again with these situations.  These principles have been recited ad nauseum on HSBBWEB.   There is a reason they are repeated so often....because they are true!   First, go where you are wanted.  Second, go where you would go without baseball.    Third, there are never any guarantees of anything.   If these principles apply to your son then you have nothing to lose and it makes the decision that much easier.   Only you know the answers to these questions.  

As always, JMO

One of the goofy ncaa rules to be aware of.  If you are a walk on at a D1 program,  and you don't make the team at the end of the fall- you have to sit a year if you transfer to another D1 Program. 

Makes no sense to me in the case of a walk on that has never played a game, and hasn't accepted any money, but that's the rule.

pabaseballdad posted:

One of the goofy ncaa rules to be aware of.  If you are a walk on at a D1 program,  and you don't make the team at the end of the fall- you have to sit a year if you transfer to another D1 Program. 

Makes no sense to me in the case of a walk on that has never played a game, and hasn't accepted any money, but that's the rule.

 

While I agree, there are many very good competitive D2, D3 programs the player can enroll in.

TPM posted:

pabaseballdad posted:

One of the goofy ncaa rules to be aware of.  If you are a walk on at a D1 program,  and you don't make the team at the end of the fall- you have to sit a year if you transfer to another D1 Program. 

Makes no sense to me in the case of a walk on that has never played a game, and hasn't accepted any money, but that's the rule.

 

While I agree, there are many very good competitive D2, D3 programs the player can enroll in.

 

absolutely agree, just pointed it out as a point of information.  when I learned this I was shocked.  makes no sense.  but I agree, I'm a big fan of DIII sports- my older son played D3 football and had a great experience.

CmassRHPDad posted: 

Thanks for the feedback. The guaranteed roster spot is what I am most interested in as well. What "guarantee" is there in any verbal commitment?

 

Did this coach offer a guaranteed roster spot, or are you asking generally? As you allude to, there are no guarantees with a verbal commitment. However, coaches have track records and your son should be able to get a pretty good idea by talking to current players, former players, and high school or club coaches. Also, I will reiterate what StrainedOblique said about scholarships... this school may not have many baseball scholarships to give, so even 25% might be reserved for top recruits.

To me, it's mostly about what your son wants from his college baseball experience. Does he really want to be a weekend starter? Does he want to play for conference championships? Regional and national championships? Are facilities really important to him? Weather? Try to help him imagine his college life as it would play out at his different options.

There is no way I would advise my son to agree to a walk on spot anywhere at the point that your son is at.  Signing day isn't until mid November, and a lot can happen between now and then.  I would instead keep working hard and attend some fall showcases, especially the Arizona Fall Classic.  If he has great grades, I would see if he could get an invite to the Academic Showcase that weekend too.  Plenty of opportunity still left. 

Walk on would be the very last option...

CMASS,

I agree with what's been said above.

The only thing I'll add is that you mention that this is a negotiation like any other.  I'll amplify one thing that Fenway noted, "First, go where you are wanted."  If a coach really wants a player, that coach won't be testing the waters...you will absolutely know.  It won't be ambiguous.  If a school has $ to give and they really want a player, that player will get $. 

If a school has $ to give, and they ask a player to consider a walk on spot, that means the player is not as high on their targeted list as other players.  Given that, and this stage in the recruiting timeline for 2018's, you do have time to push back to see where your son really fits.  And then based on the coach's feedback, your son can make an assessment if that fits with his baseball goals and your family's financial requirements.

Exciting times for your family!  Good luck!!

CmassRHPDad posted

...He knows he may end up buried in the bullpen at a D1, vs being a contributor or starter at a D2 or D3. We had the talk abt how everyone want to play as long as they can. Everyone eventually hits their ceiling.

I'm sorry, but I just can't see a ballplayer willing to see limited or no time at a D1 (or any other level), just to say that they played that level. Especially when they aren't being offered what they feel they are worth. 

I know kids that have done it. They were enthusiastic at the time. Then they end up switching schools so they can play. 

I wish you and your son nothing but the best, but hope that you think all of this through carefully. 

One D1 RC told my 2018 that many of their regular players walk on, but that that is not what they are offering at this point. But didn't make any kind of offer nor did he go into detail about the walk in possibility.

The next week, HC came to see son pitch, RC texted him after the game to say great job (he went 6 and 2/3 with no hits. Won the game after giving up the one hit.) and haven't heard from them since.

Assuming there's someone out there they have offered money to, and if they can get that kid AND my son as a walk on, they'll call it a win. If that kid says no, then maybe they'll be back with a little $$. Is that fair, or is there something else I should be thinking of? And I have a vivid imagination, so I've thought of a lot to worry about. 

Story of five  walk-ons.  Two of them are my cousins once removed (different parents, both a year older than my son, lot of baseball players in my extended family), one a former travel ball teammate and  HS rival of my son's, and the fourth a guy we know that  transferred from a D3 to a D1 for various reasons.   Both cousins were definitely "preferred walk ons."   I know cause both their parents -- my first cousins were really happy about that status.

Cousin A didn't last through fall ball at his "minor" D1.   Cousin B, who is a left handed pitcher,  made the fall team, but was one of the last guys cut before spring at his mid-major D1.

 The travel ball teammate actually made the team. He was strongly encouraged by the coach as a walk on.  Don't know if he had the actual label of preferred walk on, but probably did.  In two years has had a total of like 5 ab's, at a big 10 D1. He is a fast kid, played outfield.  Probably would have been high on the depth chart at my son's D3.   Mostly used as a pinch runner at his school so far.  

The fourth guy, who was a starter his first two years at D3 made the team as a walk on at  a Pac 12 D1, but has ridden the pine for two years. 

Oh yeah, I almost forgot number five.  Number 1 pitcher for my son's HS team, but a year behind my kid.  Lefty that threw upper 80's, and had a decent bat, recruited late in the game as a preferred walk-on by a mid major D1.   Didn't last through fall ball. 

Bottom line.  no matter what you call it,  the path of a walk on, preferred or not,  is not at all easy.   I would definitely keep hanging in there and hold out for something better if I could.

Great advice everyone Thank you all. Thank you especially for pointing out about going where you're loved. I've read it here a million times. It's easy to see when other ppl tell their stories but when it's your own kid it's easy to lose track.

Son just completed first year at a D1 in this situation.  All institutional and academic money.  Pitched around 30 innings  

I would say do your research.  When son was recruited it was much easier for him to see how his school does it because they could point to some of their top players playing under the same deal.  It is this programs way to try to compete as a small private school with only 11.7 scholarships. 

Ask the RC who of his starters came on as a walk on.  I believe in trust but verify in recruiting.  Find the players and ask them or find the parents and ask them. If it all shakes out then it probably is a legit opportunity.  If something doesn't feel right it probably isn't.  

IMO there is a tactful way to get all the info you need in this process. Some folks are too afraid to ask or don't think THAT (whatever that is) could ever happen to their kid so they fail in due diligence  

Good Luck

CmassRHPDad posted:

Great advice everyone Thank you all. Thank you especially for pointing out about going where you're loved. I've read it here a million times. It's easy to see when other ppl tell their stories but when it's your own kid it's easy to lose track.

'Go where you are loved' is by far the best advice with recruiting. Your son will know. That is how you make your final decision

In all cases (but particularly THIS CASE) you have to love the school as much or more than baseball. Son's HS teammate was a preferred walk-on at a team that made a deep run in NCAA tourney. He got a few ABs as a freshman. Think part of his decision was to latch onto a big-time D1. Did OK with limited time during season, though  struggling in summer ball as a regular. I think he first liked the school and its geographic area though and easily had academic record for admission.