Would you kick the players off the team?

Wow, that's pretty extreme - especially on such a big day for Philadelphia. But then I'm not a football parent, and I know things are different. Hopefully the coach will cool off and change his mind. If I was one of their parents, I'd be making an appointment with the AD.
Perhaps that coach has something to do with the losing record...

Florida has the same rule. We took the day off to see the Rays first playoff game, but all 2B missed was a fall ball practice and it wasn't a big deal at all. Coach said, "have fun."

Missouri same rule. I think this coach is gone pretty extreme. I too would be meeting the the AD and the School Board. Also just think how the local media would look at this coach for this punishment for a World Series Parade. Punish for the game as required and let it go. He could then make practices miserable for awhile.

I allowed my kids to miss school when the Rams had their parade for Super Bowl (long time ago) and recently when Cardinals won World Series too. Some things don't happen in a town everyday.

I agree it may be too harsh but the losing record may be due to a lack of player dedication.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I agree it may be too harsh but the losing record may be due to a lack of player dedication.

or a half crazed coach that has lost his players respect.

This is the typical response of today from parents---the coach is always wrong--mommy and daddy run to the AD---it is a darn shame that coaches cannot do their job---and I don't doubt that there is more to this story

we have the same rule in NH,at least my town does.


maybe he was a tad extreme, but they let down the rest of their team. starter ,bench guy, punter.makes no difference it's a team. if they can do without their team for a day, (no matter the reason) they can do with out it. what if everybody said i'm going to the parade?

having pointed all that out, i'm not sure i could do the same.

I'm generally pretty old school hen it comes to situations like that but even I feel this was too harsh. At high school age there should be lessons taught but there should also be room for redemption. We can't just write off kids everytime they make a dumb mistake. I would kick them off the team for the last two games but allow them another chance next year. Now if there is something besides this that we don't know about that could make it more serious. Even then, kids can change and if we don't allow some learning curve at this age when will we?

quote:

he gave them a high school lifetime suspension

There is a BIG difference between coaching kids,
....and quitting on kids.

Way too harsh. Some of these kids, who knows, might develop to the point where they could earn college scholarships. OK, they made a stupid mistake. Some punishment is in order. This is too much.

I'd give the coach until next summer to cool off. If the boys showed up for tryouts next year and were turned away, anybody who could stay that hot for that long, I would think would deserve to have parents go over his head.

There may be more to the story. This could have been the culmination of several things.

The only way that penalty could be construed as fair, is if the coach made the players fully aware of it before the event. Any time you arbitrarily institute a penalty without a previous warning, it completely undermines any respect and trust you previously enjoyed.

If there was no previous warning, I would imagine the coach is going to find himself in hotwater with both the AD and the school board for usurping their authority on what they have already deemed appropriate measures.

I would say every state has this rule or something very similar to it.

I agree with BHD that there might be more to the story.

If they had been in trouble / caused trouble then maybe can them for good.

How far from Philly were they? If it was a 4 hour drive then they have no reason going but if it was within an hour of Philly then we can talk about it.

Why hasn't the AD done something already? He's not sitting in Agent 99's cone of silence. He should know and do something about it (if unwarranted) before the parents got to the school.

If it was this one time thing then he went too far. If this was a culmination then we need to find out everything before it happens.

I do not think they have a lifetime ban. I believe they are underclassmen and can try out for the team next season, I believethe state athletic rule is they can not play in the game if they are not in school. Not allowing them back for the rest of the season was a coaches decision. However the parents were on local TV saying the decision was too harsh. As an old school guy I ask this question. As a parent would you allow your kid to miss class knowing he could not play in the game that day?

As presented, the penalty is certainly too harsh.

I am, however, reminded of a situation in which a junior year player was suspended for the rest of his junior season and the senior season. The apparent offense was a minor prank, and most of his teammates were surprised and upset at such an overreaction. It turned out that the minor prank simply coincided with ongoing discipline (which was kept confidential) for a much more serious issue, which eventually became apparent to the teammates. In retrospect, the administration and coaching staff may have actually been too lenient prior to the suspension.

So, is there more to the Philadelphia story? Did the kids get into trouble at the parade, but the school is keeping it quiet? Were the kids already in hot water with the coach or school?

If not, I'm in agreement with Midlo Dad: wait until next summer, when the emotion has subsided.

I remember a guy who was expelled from all HS sports after decking a hockey ref because he didn't like a call. That same player also caused his BB team to lose a championship game (1st loss all season) due to his explosive behavior. Our team was leading 3-0 when he got tossed and they had no subs left. He went on to play BB at Wake Forest. Figure that out ?

The AD will handle it or the program will go down in shambles. No AD would fall on a sword of this type, but that's just my opinion

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I do not think they have a lifetime ban. I believe they are underclassmen and can try out for the team next season, I believethe state athletic rule is they can not play in the game if they are not in school. Not allowing them back for the rest of the season was a coaches decision. However the parents were on local TV saying the decision was too harsh. As an old school guy I ask this question. As a parent would you allow your kid to miss class knowing he could not play in the game that day?

Through connections (the school isn't far from us) I've heard while he can't legally ban them for life, they will not make the team next year.

As for allowing my son to miss school and consequently a game for the parade, it wouldn't be issue. He would chose to be at school and the game. Since he didn't have a game that day (s****r team had just been eliminated from districts) and has very good grades I let him skip school to attend.

The kids were on JV and didnt play on varsity they just dressed on varsity. They got a chance to see a once in a lifetime event and they went for it. They got caught so they couldnt dress for the football game. The coach then suspends them for the rest of the year. There can not be too many games left in this season. It sounds like to me the coach is trying to send a message to everyone in his program and everyone coming into it.

Personally I think he should take them to the side and say. "Guys you were wrong. You know you can not skip school and then play a game. So I am going to suspend you for the rest of the season. If you show me you really want to be a part of this program this summer and into tryouts next year we will wipe the slate clean. But dont ever let anything like this happen again."

Any grown man that would try and kick kids out for the rest of their time in hs over something like this doesnt need to be coaching. They are kids. They make mistakes. They dont always use the best judgement. So you teach them some things. But you dont do it like this.

By the way I think the parents should stay out of the media and handle this behind closed doors. It will never stand anyway. But by turning it into a circus by going to the media and getting in front of cameras they make it more than it should be as well.

From these facts, its too harsh from my viewpoint, but this can't be the most serious rules violation ever seen by this coach.

What happened in more serious rules violations?
Firing Squad?

What we don't know is whether or not these guys were ever really going to part of the mix as upperclassmen.

Consciously or unconsciously, it could have been a defacto exit clause for the players.

Also, were any of these guys baseball players first and football players second?

Interesting comment from an observer:

Maybe these kids realize how little playing high school football for *** High really is. Maybe their commitment to the Phillies was much bigger. I would bet more people from *** High went to the parade then went to all 10 football games this year....combined!!!!

RJM probably knows more about the program than most, but do we have all the facts?

When son was in HS, his team made regional playoffs first time in 6 years. The coaches father passed away, so he had to go to Chicago leaving thursday, district game was on monday night. On friday, many on the team cut his class (last in the day), thinking he wasn't there so who cared.
We have basically the same rule, you miss school the day of or before a game you have to sit out, but these players thought that missing his class wouldn't matter. Coach returns monday, finds out the news and bans all the players from the regional game who cut class. He was really ticked that after leaving for his father's funeral, they showed the substitute no respect. He told them in the morning, the players called their folks, who called the AD immediately. She stood by the coaches rule, you miss MY class before a game, for any reason, you sit. The AD took the coaches side and told parents if they had called into dismiss their sons from last class, the coach wouldn't have taken it so badly and overlooked his particular rule for that game.
My son had to go in and pitch a game with a new catcher, missing two of the best hitters on the team. We lost.
Why did the coach do it when he hadn't been to a state game in years? Because these players kind of screwed around all season, one even been cut for chewing tobacco on the field at a game, late to practice, late to pre game practice, caught drinking one year. He had enough, he felt bad for the kids who did the right thing, but he had to teach a lesson, and he knew most of the players banned wouldn't be returning. The parents didn't even care that teh players cut a class, to them that was incidental. It was tough, but we understood. How do you all feel about that story?

So maybe what the players did was not wrong, as kids have a right to enjoy other things in their lives, and willing to face the consequences, but maybe the coach had enough of some other behavior. He obviously has a losing team, but maybe he does because he gets non cooperation from his players. That happens often. Players tend to do that when they know that parents can use their influence to fix things.
So let's look at both sides.

quote:

RJM probably knows more about the program than most, but do we have all the facts?

The only thing I've heard other than what's been reported are some of the grumblings and rumors through my travel baseball grapevine which has athletes at the high school and therefore parental connections. It was a topic of discussion during the fall ball travel league playoffs the following weekend.

The story was in a very local paper today someone left in a fast food resturant I had lunch. Since the site has been baseball slow and the story relates to athlete's attitudes I figured it would make for discussion.

Teaching players that commitment is important is the responsibility any coach. It's a valuable trait that athletes take with them into life after the clocks stop and the games end. I understand why a coach would react strongly when players put their own enjoyment, even a once-in-a-lifetime parade, ahead of established team rules. Commitment is important.

But there are other lessons that coaches should teach their players. Compassion and understanding come to mind. It's valuable when any coach has the ability to, every once in a while, put themselves in the young athlete's place. That would lead to forgiveness and the chance to teach these kids that while mistakes must be punished appropriately, that there is the recognition that they are young people worth giving a second chance to.

Hopefully this works itself out fairly. To answer the question posed, I would not allow them to play for the remainder of this season and then welcome them back with a clean slate.

quote:

Some of these kids, who knows, might develop to the point where they could earn college scholarships

And the point is??


I don't agree with "lifetime ban" and I'd be surprised if it stays that way.

We had one my freshman year of high school.. our varsity coach was going to bring up 4 freshmen I believe. But the day he was going to bring them up, 2 of them had skipped school and practice to instead go to the Cardinals Opening Day. One of them who skipped he had planned to START two days later! Me and the other guy at practice got brought up. The other two got to run A BUNCH and stayed down with the freshmen team the rest of the year.

Bulldog,
You might find that situation common.
One thing that I have learned through the years observing my player, playing a sport is about commitment and personal sacrifices.
I am assuming that many coaches expect that from their players, no matter what age, no matter what level.
I don't really agree with what the coach or your coach did, but I suppose this happens often and coaches have their reasons.
JMO.

I think many players will learn by seeing a teammate removed from a team or kept out because they are not dedicated. Will the particular player learn from it? Maybe; maybe not.

Why should a coach be "dedicated" to the player if the player is not dedicated to the coach or to the team?

Parents see it one way and the coach sees it another. Depends on what hat you're wearing and how much of a "rose tint" your glasses have.
Fungo

Well you all must have missed the obvious, the coach is obviously a Yankees fan and he is ticked

There must be more to the story, even so, I would be upset with a player who the coach was giving a opportunity to participate on the varsity team even just to dress for the games and it appears they did not appreciate it.

Do the rules apply for half days? I missed half a day almost every Friday my senior year in Illinois and always got to play.

Advice for school counselors, never tell a senior that he has enough credits to graduate and get into college after the first quarter.

Maybe I missed something, I am getting older, But I do not understand how a coach (unless maybe hes a teacher, and even then) wouldbe able to hand out that severe of a punishment. Lifetime penalty, thats pretty harsh.

Checked it out in our league.
No such thing as a "Lifeime Ban".

Bum, Jr. had a good year but he got hung with a cheap loss when he was forced to play right field to substitute for a kid who joined in on a "Senior Skip" day and was caught. The game got tight in the later innings and Bum, Jr. was pulled from RF to close without warming up and got tagged for a run. And we lost.

That player who skipped was also his best friend. But he hurt the team. He wasn't punished, and he was in the lineup the next game.

Coaches should be fair. Punish, yes.. but a lifetime ban? That's insane.

.



"Off with their heads...forever!"

My son's school had the same issue. About 60% of the kids skipped school to go the the Phillies parade. The 40% that showed up included every football player because of the rules stated above.
The team is doing well and they seem to respect the coach. Maybe the coach in question lost the respect of his players. Maybe since the team is losing the coach has lost the respect or interest of some of the subs.
IMO the players who went to the parade probably don't care too much if they're on the team next year or not. If they did they would not have gone.

Lifetime ban from baseball? Come on --- let's not give high school baseball more credit that it deserves. I have had college coaches tell me that high school baseball can actually be detrimental to a talented player's baseball future. I'm pro high school baseball and enjoyed the years my son played high school baseball but high school baseball did not prepare him for college or pro baseball. The summer team, showcase and outside training are much more important as far as moving up to the next level. High school baseball is an experience ---- not a launching pad or a proving ground. Granted there are players that would suffer by being banned from a high school team but that would be the player that wouldn't play college baseball anyway. I say the coach needs to run his program as he sees fit. Playing high school sports is a privilege --- not a right.
Fungo

Fungo, you might want to check the original post.. this was football. Last I checked, there is no travel or showcase football. High School football IS how a player is found for college.

quote:

Through connections (the school isn't far from us) I've heard while he can't legally ban them for life, they will not make the team next year.

sometimes what you "hear" is not what is going on

bulldog


There are "combines"for football which are essentially showcases

Bulldog, You're right as usual.. But as hard as it was to type I can't force myself to delete it.
Anyway most of it isn't sport specific.
Fungo