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Yet another example of the excesses of major college sports... Wink

http://www.latimes.com/sports/...0713,0,1404785.story

"The penalties, many of them self-imposed by the school, include three years of probation, one year of no campus recruiting and the vacating of wins and records."

My only question is what wins?
" There's nothing cooler than a guy who does what we dream of doing, and then enjoys it as much as we dream we would enjoy it. " -- Scott Ostler on Tim Lincecum
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But, as smart as they are, they have not figured out how to hit and throw the baseball very well... historically not a good baseball program. I think the only team they beat this year was their alumni.

BTW, the infractions appear to be on a technicality, not knowingly violating NCAA rules...

"The problems came from the school's system of "shopping" for courses, in which students attend classes for three weeks at the beginning of a term before registration. That meant that under NCAA rules, some athletes were not considered full-time students when they took the field."
Last edited by cabbagedad
It's Cambridge vs Pasadena.

Boston vs Los Angelos

East Coast vs West Coast.

Peel another layer of the onion
it's very large and traditional vs smaller.

Or how about
Cal Tech is very rigorous and heavy on theory where as Stanford's very much about practical/industrial applications. MIT is a blend of theory and apps.

MIT pretty much remains on the top shelf.
Cal Tech is probably closest to Ga Tech.

Cambridge and Atlanta will not be headed to bankruptcy anytime soon. Many Nor-CAL and SoCAL cities have been there for years.
I'm not sure the Peoples Democratic Republic of Cambridge is doing that well financially. Their latest lunacy is banning the sale of sugar based drinks. The restaurants and movie theatres are so thrilled.

Concord banned plastic drinking bottles. Middleboro made swearing a misdemeanor. Wretham banned the American flag in public. It turns out after people recycle the City of Boston throws it all in the dump. It makes me happy I've been avoiding the middle man and throwing everything in the trash for years.

The State of Massachusetts is an insane asylum.
Last edited by RJM
quote:
The State of Massachusetts is an insane asylum.


Edit - it is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

RJM - I heard my father utter those same words as our moving van pulled away from our MA house to move to CT when I was 16 years old in 1979. He vowed never to live there again. As far as I know, he's never returned to visit. He thinks it is nut house.
In one congressional district the race is between a 29 year old kid who spent three years in Peace Corps and two years as a Assistant to the County DA versus a forty something mega successful business man (BA Econ Harvard, Wharton MBA) and an officer in the Marine Corps reserve. The kid is clobbering the businessman in the polls. The kid's strategy is to avoid discussing the issues. Guess what the kid's last name is. We refer to him as JoKe3.
The Washington Post, November 11. 2012

NCAA Hammers Caltech, But Other Schools Deserve To Be Nailed

By Norman Chad


Which of the following NCAA schools is currently on three years’ probation for “a lack of institutional control”?

a) Auburn.

b) SMU.

c) California Institute of Technology.

d) Syracuse.

Yes, the answer is (c), better known as Caltech, one of the world’s great engineering schools.

Before we detail what dastardly deeds these nerds-in-Nikes committed, let’s take a step back to consider the NCAA and its higher-profile member schools.

I would venture to say that virtually every Division I football and men’s basketball program commits an NCAA violation — some major, some middling — on a weekly basis. This is a product of two basic truths:

1. The NCAA rulebook is rather encyclopedic, byzantine and far-flung; it’s entirely possible you can be punished for changing a light bulb the wrong way.

2. Because of financial pressures to win at all costs, many schools routinely break rules; the old adage, “It’s not cheating unless you’re caught,” still rules the day.

Every Big 12 school has been on probation at some point. In the Southeastern Conference, only Missouri and Vanderbilt never have been on probation; in the Pacific-12, only Stanford and Washington State never have been on probation.

Speaking of which, Southern California is literally on probation about 25 percent of the time; in fact, to cut out a bunch of paperwork, I would just place USC on probation for the third quarter of every football game.

(Hey, allowing Reggie Bush and O.J. Mayo onto your athletic venues is not exactly like letting Jonas Salk and Stephen Hawking through your library doors. Then again, USC stockpiles running backs like Johns Hopkins stockpiles lab reports.)

I doubt Lane Kiffin can brush his teeth in the morning without committing an NCAA violation.

I hate singling out USC — Correction: In truth, I love singling out USC — but it is a large, visible symbol of a great academic center losing its way in pursuit of greater athletic glory.

Anyway, as it turns out, Los Angeles is home to both USC and Caltech, just 15 smog-filled miles separating a habitual offender from a first-time offender.

This is the thing about Caltech — if those folks are cheating, they’re doing a lousy job of it.

The baseball team’s lost 237 straight games, the men’s basketball team ended a 310-game conference losing streak two seasons ago, the women’s volleyball team has lost all 168 of its conference games and the men’s water polo team had a seven-year winless streak.

There are no athletic scholarships at Caltech — you have to be a student-scholar to be admitted.

So what was Division III Caltech doing wrong?

In the first three weeks of each trimester, students there are allowed to “sample” classes and “shop” for courses before registering for them.* These students are technically part-time until they enroll for their courses, and part-time students cannot participate in NCAA sports. This happened with 30 Caltech athletes in 12 sports between 2007 and 2010.

(*Here are some of the classes Caltech offers: “Optical Wave Propagation,” “Markov Chains, Discrete Stochastic Processes and Applications” and “Signal Transduction and Biomechanics in Eukaryotic Cell Morphogenesis.”

When I matriculated at Maryland, I took “Sociology of the Soap Opera.” For real. If I had Caltech’s course load in College Park, I’d still be 18 credits short of graduating.)

Caltech turned itself in.

What did the NCAA do? They threw the book at ’em.

(At least when you throw the book at Caltech, someone there can actually read it.)

Three years’ probation, a one-year postseason ban in the affected sports, vacated wins gained with ineligible athletes and a ban on off-campus recruiting.

The long arm of the NCAA law comically reached out to prevent Caltech from competing for championships it never wins and to cease recruiting it never does.

(Banning Caltech from postseason is akin to forbidding Pope Benedict XVI from breakdancing.)

The message is clear: Somewhere in the heart of Kentucky, John Calipari sleeps uneasily tonight.
My eldest son used to me when he was in elementary and middle school - dad why don't you go to a PAC-10 or some big basketball or football college so that I can cheer for your school? I had no answer, just kept quiet. Now after career day at his HS freshman year, he asked "Is it hard to get into MIT?". People go to Caltech not for baseball, I could say for 100% certainty. Can't NCAA ease off a little? I could say from experience people do sports or other stupid pranks just to get some reliefs from the academic pressures and laugh at themselves. Why throw the book at them and shut them down? Heard about the smoot unit on the Harvard bridge? 'Stolen' car that ended up in the dean office? I don't think Caltech is taking their baseball as seriously as the NCAA makes a big deal out off it. NCAA got the wrong guy. Don't make fun of Caltech players, after all, they are the ones that design the planes you are riding on, the brakes and system on your cars, the radar in your airports, etc., the next time you think why these things always work, think of them.
quote:
Posted July 16, 2012 05:08 AM Hide Post
It's Cambridge vs Pasadena.

Boston vs Los Angelos

East Coast vs West Coast.

Peel another layer of the onion
it's very large and traditional vs smaller.

Or how about
Cal Tech is very rigorous and heavy on theory where as Stanford's very much about practical/industrial applications. MIT is a blend of theory and apps.

MIT pretty much remains on the top shelf.
Cal Tech is probably closest to Ga Tech.


Despite being from MIT, I had to say that Caltech is closet to MIT (no disrespect to Ga. Tech). It's a smaller college but great engineering/science school nevertheless. I know people that graduated from MIT and went on the Caltech grad school.
quote:
In the first three weeks of each trimester, students there are allowed to “sample” classes and “shop” for courses before registering for them.* These students are technically part-time until they enroll for their courses, and part-time students cannot participate in NCAA sports. This happened with 30 Caltech athletes in 12 sports between 2007 and 2010.

(*Here are some of the classes Caltech offers: “Optical Wave Propagation,” “Markov Chains, Discrete Stochastic Processes and Applications” and “Signal Transduction and Biomechanics in Eukaryotic Cell Morphogenesis.”


Great insight! People are allowed to sample because of the academic difficulty and pressure. That's what you need to do when you round up a bunch of very high achievers and grade them on the bell curve. Someone have to get B or C.
I'm going to play devil's advocate and take the stance that they should be punished by the NCAA. Nobody forced them to join the NCAA and since they joined of their own accord they should be held accountable just like every other member. It's easy to say and joke that since they are atroscious at baseball (and all sports) that how is punishing them going to affect anybody else? Well it seems their violation is a simple overlook on everyone's part but that is going to happen to a school who takes athletics more serious. Why should they be punished when Cal Tech wasn't? How do you justify that to the other school?

Now that I've become athletic director and having to deal with situations like these it has changed my outlook to where you have to punish everyone equally.
The newspaper accounts are just focusing on class shopping - but in the actual report, they had kids playing while on academic probation and others playing who were not full-time students - after the sampling period.

In addition, the school had no eligibility procedures and no one appeared to know that you had to check on these things. Not the AD, not the Administration nor the coaches.

Sounds like a complete lack of institutional control to me. It is funny that it is Cal Tech with their incredible academics and woeful lack of athletic ability - but imagine the outcry if this were Notre Dame Football or Duke Basketball.
Last edited by 08Dad
quote:
08Dad said.....Sounds like a complete lack of institutional control to me. It is funny that it is Cal Tech with their incredible academics and woeful lack of athletic ability - but imagine the outcry if this were Notre Dame Football or Duke Basketball.
True, and I hope it would be treated the same if it were Duke football and Notre Dame basketball as well. The rules are the rules.
Last edited by fenwaysouth
quote:
Originally posted by 08Dad:
In addition, the school had no eligibility procedures and no one appeared to know that you had to check on these things. Not the AD, not the Administration nor the coaches.

Sounds like a complete lack of institutional control to me. It is funny that it is Cal Tech with their incredible academics and woeful lack of athletic ability - but imagine the outcry if this were Notre Dame Football or Duke Basketball.


Guess they just placed too much priority on academics and sports were just extra-curricular activities. Big Grin

Seriously, it does not excuse them but it does say something about the teams being so bad and no attention really given to the NCAA rules. Probably did just treat it like another extra activity for students (like band, theatre, etc.).

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