A lot of pitching videos I see of people who's leg is off the ground before they release the pitch is usually because of early rotation.
Also, throwing off 1 leg seems to create an unstable base. It's like throwing to a moving target. It doesn't put the arm in the best position to throw the ball.
quote:Originally posted by XFactor:
A lot of pitching videos I see of people who's leg is off the ground before they release the pitch is usually because of early rotation.
Also, throwing off 1 leg seems to create an unstable base. It's like throwing to a moving target. It doesn't put the arm in the best position to throw the ball.
Your momentum (as in hitting) starts on your back foot and moves to your front. If you leave your back foot on the ground, you are fighting against the momentum.
quote:Originally posted by XFactor:
A lot of pitching videos I see of people who's leg is off the ground before they release the pitch is usually because of early rotation.
Also, throwing off 1 leg seems to create an unstable base. It's like throwing to a moving target. It doesn't put the arm in the best position to throw the ball.
I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it matters as much as you say. Many very good pitchers (e.g. Schilling) have their PAS foot off the ground near the release point.
quote:Originally posted by micmeister:
Your momentum (as in hitting) starts on your back foot and moves to your front. If you leave your back foot on the ground, you are fighting against the momentum.
Only if you keep your weight back. The back foot touching the ground doesn't automatically mean there's much force being applied there. Many of the top pitchers drag their back foot until (or after) the ball is released.
XFactor……………before they release the pitch?quote:A lot of pitching videos I see of people who's leg is off the ground before they release the pitch is usually because of early rotation.
Chose any high velocity pro that illustrates having both feet on the ground….posting foot still on the ground providing some sort of a stable base from which to throw off of, after the ball has been launched……post the photo or clip.
quote:Also, throwing off 1 leg seems to create an unstable base. It's like throwing to a moving target. It doesn't put the arm in the best position to throw the ball.
You don’t need either foot on the ground to throw hard…………….view some of the best infielders in the game leap sideways or backwards leaving the ground before they release a cannon ball across the bases. They may not be accurate, but they’re hard and all upper torso and arm, and there’s no stable base from which to throw off of. Same with tennis serves; same with volleyball serves and slams.
“Seems” means you’re guessing just like Chris because you heard this somewhere. You’re always advocating exploding your hips forward toward the target as soon as possible. I have yet to see any hard throwing pitcher illustrate this explosion, land the stride leg and still throw the ball with both feet on the ground……..the posting foot still providing some sort of stable base from which to throw from. This means the hips stay closed until after the ball is released. WHOA!!!
Chris…….do you actually consider this mechanic/posture viable? By the way you’ve worded this, IMO you’re guessing about the subject as well.quote:I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it matters as much as you say.
Many very good pitchers (e.g. Schilling) have their PAS foot off the ground near the release point.
Like TRhit, I feel that this forum needs to be purged from conjectures. XFactor has yet to post any concrete evidence ie, video illustrating what he espouses. He mostly copies and pastes verbatim studies and phrases from whatever to fit his agenda, mostly DMills regurgitation.
Chris……you do a lot of guessing.
And I think that’s great that you two guys can do this, but it doesn’t help much in these forums.
Chris…..I suggest that if you want to respond to a topic to which you have only a guess/assumption, but no real time experience, then post a link to your site that would contain the reply. Then those that want to read your view will skip over, and your web site will take the hit and use the bandwidth.
XFactor…..I suggest……………….
......................I sincerely miss Doug already.
Quote:
You don’t need either foot on the ground to throw hard…………….view some of the best infielders in the game leap sideways or backwards leaving the ground before they release a cannon ball across the bases. They may not be accurate, but they’re hard and all upper torso and arm, and there’s no stable base from which to throw off of. Same with tennis serves; same with volleyball serves and slams.
The jump throw still starts with one foot on the ground and a torque of the mid-section and is moving a whole lot slower than their normal throw, but we are talking about Pitching. You don't have any video of a Pitcher with both feet off the ground at release point....do you???
quote:
I have yet to see any hard throwing pitcher illustrate this explosion, land the stride leg and still throw the ball with both feet on the ground……..the posting foot still providing some sort of stable base from which to throw from. This means the hips stay closed until after the ball is released. WHOA!!!
I agree that this would be very difficult to do, although, the more overhand you throw the less the drag will hurt your velocity.
You don’t need either foot on the ground to throw hard…………….view some of the best infielders in the game leap sideways or backwards leaving the ground before they release a cannon ball across the bases. They may not be accurate, but they’re hard and all upper torso and arm, and there’s no stable base from which to throw off of. Same with tennis serves; same with volleyball serves and slams.
The jump throw still starts with one foot on the ground and a torque of the mid-section and is moving a whole lot slower than their normal throw, but we are talking about Pitching. You don't have any video of a Pitcher with both feet off the ground at release point....do you???
quote:
I have yet to see any hard throwing pitcher illustrate this explosion, land the stride leg and still throw the ball with both feet on the ground……..the posting foot still providing some sort of stable base from which to throw from. This means the hips stay closed until after the ball is released. WHOA!!!
I agree that this would be very difficult to do, although, the more overhand you throw the less the drag will hurt your velocity.
The hips do not explode forward. They actually slow down once they get to a point almost facing home plate. The front stride leg and the hips form a folcrum from which the upper body rotates and the shoulders and arm generate rotational torgue. The rear leg acts as a counter bakance as you unload towards home. The foot drags for some pitchers but not all. That leg will leave the rubber before release as you generate the arm speed and follow through. It is physically impossible to leave the foot back on the rubber. In the old days there were people who believed you push off the rubber but thst is not true.
If you watch some of the top prospects videos you can see the slow deliberate wind up leading to a thrust towards the plate. The hips are almost stopped as the shoulder and arm trust forward.
If you watch some of the top prospects videos you can see the slow deliberate wind up leading to a thrust towards the plate. The hips are almost stopped as the shoulder and arm trust forward.
...............not me. My point was there are instances where both feet are off the ground and high velocity arm action can be demonstrated.quote:You don't have any video of a Pitcher with both feet off the ground at release point....do you???
Lincicum not only pushes, he leaps off the rubber.quote:In the old days there were people who believed you push off the rubber but thst is not true.
I don't agree. He does rush more than most but he doesn't push off the rubber.
Great....then we agree to disagree.quote:I don't agree. He does rush more than most but he doesn't push off the rubber.
But when I view his pre pro videos in real time, I see a definite increase of tempo out the mound prior to landing, not a tempo explosion into landing....and in order to leap out, you must be pushing off the rubber.
quote:Great....then we agree to disagree.
Who agrees to disagree ?
Post the video again and lets take another look.
Here's a clip of Lincecum
I'm talking about the foot being in contact with the ground as the ball leaves the hand, not after.
And I never said you needed it to throw hard. As I said, when I usually see this in videos I look over, both with the pitchers I work with and some that get sent to me, (and yes, I have received video links of people wishing me to take a look - wow I sound almost like Chris, but there's nothing wrong with that), it's because of early rotation. Which - I think we can all agree on this - is not ideal. Velocity suffers, control suffers.
Let's see... what else did you cry about... Meh, mostly nothing..
But I like the fact that you whined (and yes, I consider what I read whinning) about me using scientific studies to show where I'm coming from. I mean, heh, who'd just post stuff without any backing? And the whole Principle of Specificity, HA! Who'd ever buy into that? It must be something made up by nerds.
Wanna bowl 300? Hit a baseball! I'll be bowling 300 by the end of the weekend!
Just because what I or some others say goes against what you think is right, doesn't make us crazy. You might actually learn something for a change.
But, since you wanted a picture or video (sadly, I can only provide a picture) of someone who had their back foot on the ground at release,
I'm not saying it should be in contact after release. Please learn how to read.
Any other questions, Cappy?
Edited: And by the by, looking at Lincecum's clip with Media Player, ever so slowly, at release - gee gasp - Linceum's foot is still in contact with the ground. And oh, prepare for your skin to melt: Dick Mills likes him a lot - and no, not in that way, though there's nothing wrong with that.
And I never said you needed it to throw hard. As I said, when I usually see this in videos I look over, both with the pitchers I work with and some that get sent to me, (and yes, I have received video links of people wishing me to take a look - wow I sound almost like Chris, but there's nothing wrong with that), it's because of early rotation. Which - I think we can all agree on this - is not ideal. Velocity suffers, control suffers.
Let's see... what else did you cry about... Meh, mostly nothing..
But I like the fact that you whined (and yes, I consider what I read whinning) about me using scientific studies to show where I'm coming from. I mean, heh, who'd just post stuff without any backing? And the whole Principle of Specificity, HA! Who'd ever buy into that? It must be something made up by nerds.
Wanna bowl 300? Hit a baseball! I'll be bowling 300 by the end of the weekend!
Just because what I or some others say goes against what you think is right, doesn't make us crazy. You might actually learn something for a change.
But, since you wanted a picture or video (sadly, I can only provide a picture) of someone who had their back foot on the ground at release,
I'm not saying it should be in contact after release. Please learn how to read.
Any other questions, Cappy?
Edited: And by the by, looking at Lincecum's clip with Media Player, ever so slowly, at release - gee gasp - Linceum's foot is still in contact with the ground. And oh, prepare for your skin to melt: Dick Mills likes him a lot - and no, not in that way, though there's nothing wrong with that.
XFactor,
In your opinion, what is the actual advantage of the foot still contacting the ground at release? It doesn't seem to have any leverage associated with it at release point. Is it something you think is important or is it just something you have noticed? Is it similiar to hitters and their back foot staying down or coming off the ground at contact?
In your opinion, what is the actual advantage of the foot still contacting the ground at release? It doesn't seem to have any leverage associated with it at release point. Is it something you think is important or is it just something you have noticed? Is it similiar to hitters and their back foot staying down or coming off the ground at contact?
XFactor-
Again you demonstrate just how little you know (or think you know) and how you can’t follow your own writings. There is no stable base (by the posting foot) to throw off of at ball release in the photo’s you posted. And again you’ve illustrated that you’re only defense is a condescending offence.
If you insist on this type of posting, I will delete any and all of those posts made by you.
Again you demonstrate just how little you know (or think you know) and how you can’t follow your own writings. There is no stable base (by the posting foot) to throw off of at ball release in the photo’s you posted. And again you’ve illustrated that you’re only defense is a condescending offence.
If you insist on this type of posting, I will delete any and all of those posts made by you.
Its a no teach, and has nothing to do with control, velocity, or stability. If your teaching someone to keep thier backfoot on the ground your wrong...If your teaching someone to lift it before release your wrong. Dont worry about this style one way or another because its truely a no teach!
deemax-
At least one person decided to step in and tell it like it is.
Thank you very much deemax!!!
At least one person decided to step in and tell it like it is.
Thank you very much deemax!!!
I dont want to be bias and leave out relievers either....
TL dosen't jump or push off the rubber. His back leg collapses very little compared to many. I agree you do not teach leaving your foot on the ground/rubber on release. I see lots who drag their toe as the leg follows the hip. I like his delivery. He is a small guy who moves very quickly compared to a big guy. It is very important to have a strong lower body to set up a strong folcrum around which the sholders and arms rotate forward. I like a high back leg kick which TL has but in that clip he falls off to the left more than I like. I like the leg to come around and land squared up and the pitcher to stay low for a few seconds.
quote:Originally posted by deemax:
Its a no teach, and has nothing to do with control, velocity, or stability. If your teaching someone to keep thier backfoot on the ground your wrong...If your teaching someone to lift it before release your wrong. Dont worry about this style one way or another because its truely a no teach!
It's a result, not a cause of anything.
Don't worry, I don't teach any of my pitchers to drag their back foot or whatever. Just good posture, explode leading with their front hip, hips go before shoulders, arm in the cocked position (and no scap loading above shoulder height), trunk flexion (usually do to moving explosively, and after trunk rotation), no hesitations, etc...
I said I noticed pitchers back foot was off the ground near release when rotating early. Early rotation is bad.
You point to MLB pitchers. And that's fine, but their body has probably already adapted to being able to minimize the errors.
With the people I work with, if I see them rotating early, I won't leave it alone, I'll help them fix it, why we want to fix it, and how it'll better them.
Sorry about being a little harsh, but it's annoying when certain people can say what they want, and nothing happens (even if they give out erroneous information - even if the intent is good, everyone has their opinions), but if someone disagrees with certain individuals - God forbid, firey rocks will rain down upon them and smote them.
I said I noticed pitchers back foot was off the ground near release when rotating early. Early rotation is bad.
You point to MLB pitchers. And that's fine, but their body has probably already adapted to being able to minimize the errors.
With the people I work with, if I see them rotating early, I won't leave it alone, I'll help them fix it, why we want to fix it, and how it'll better them.
Sorry about being a little harsh, but it's annoying when certain people can say what they want, and nothing happens (even if they give out erroneous information - even if the intent is good, everyone has their opinions), but if someone disagrees with certain individuals - God forbid, firey rocks will rain down upon them and smote them.
How can rotation be early?
When it starts before the front foot hits the ground (not right before. I'm talking about before that).
Really? What have you been watching? Little league?
