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Read that this morning...interesting article
Doesn't really explain the alternatives though. Somebody explain how a modern day kid gets an SEC commit or gets drafted just playing High School & Legion, without any lessons from pro instructors....
No, this article and many like it are lost on the wrong side of cause and effect. Disposable income is up and the current generation of parents are willing to spend on their kids sports.
Kids are expensive, not just sports but also clothes, phones, music lessons and much other stuff
.
Yeah, I think I should have forced my kids to take piano lessons so someone would play this thing I have in my living room! Looks fantastic but collects a lot of dust!
SanDiegoRealist posted:Yeah, I think I should have forced my kids to take piano lessons so someone would play this thing I have in my living room! Looks fantastic but collects a lot of dust!
Just wait until you move. You will have to give the buyer of the house money to not have to move it.
Go44dad posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:Yeah, I think I should have forced my kids to take piano lessons so someone would play this thing I have in my living room! Looks fantastic but collects a lot of dust!
Just wait until you move. You will have to give the buyer of the house money to not have to move it.
Ha! This thing has already been moved twice (once by wife and me)! Also have a 600 pound Terra Cotta Warrior who guards our front door we have moved too...and not a scratch on either!
Thanks for posting the link to this article.
I'd say the piece is cherry-picking some extreme examples (anyone flying 10 yr olds cross country for baseball tournaments has a real problem, even if the disposable income is there), but it certainly points to a real issue that I know everyone on this board has seen. When my son was nine yrs old, he was told by a run-of-the-mill local "select" soccer team that he needed to drop baseball because it caused him to miss two games out of a 20-game season. (That experience caused him to quit soccer for several years, which was a shame.)
If could do it over, there certainly a few times I would make some changes to avoid being That Parent. And keeping perspective is only going to get harder as more folks invest in chasing youth sports money. It's an arms race: if the kids competing with yours for spots on the team are paying for private hitting coaches to prep for Elite Select Travel tee ball, then you may need to do it, too, if your kid is going to play. Unilaterally disarming by opting out has its costs.
My kid played Little League through 12U with a little travel ball mixed in. He may be a little behind some kids who were more serious about baseball earlier, but I think he learned a lot about leadership and teamwork by playing with kids who could barely throw or catch. (And I learned a lot by trying to coach those kids and dealing with their parents. "I don't think it's a good idea for Johnny to play 1B until he's less at risk of getting hit in the mouth by throws from the other infielders...")
No particular point to my post, other than thinking out loud... In the end, life is lived forwards and understood (if at all) only backwards, I suppose.
Here's the thing....when my son started playing travel at 9U, his team was an hour away (we had no options). Practice on Sunday morning at 8am in the winter, then at least one practice/week then 12 straight weekends in the spring/summer. We really had no local tourneys....so travel/hotel just about all summer. We did this with this team for 4 years. People thought we were crazy....and just blowing $1000's of dollars on baseball. We were spending $$$, yes, but we also were making friends that myself and my son are still great friends with today. We were not your typical travel team. Each family basically had to "meet" the others before their kid was allowed on the team. We carried 10-11 kids thru 13U. 9 of them started with us at 9U and had actually played together the year before my son came on board. Sure it was expensive....but I also didn't play in a golf league (expensive), I didn't have a convertible (expensive) or a boat (expensive). My daughter was 2 years older than him...and loved baseball. Ask her today as a 22 year old, she wouldn't have traded it for the world. Son also played local thru 14U and rarely missed a game with his friends so it's not like he was alienating himself from his future HS teammate. I started a team for 15U/16U....and 3 of the original 10 kids from 9U played with us along with a bunch of other great kids we met thru the years. Weeklong trips to a lake house in GA and Nashville those two years.....vacation with great friends...that just happened to include baseball, not the other way around! My son ended up with a baseball scholarship. Did it cover all the $$$ we spent over the years? Nope, but it did cover his baseball costs.....the extra $$$ we spent as the vacation part of the trips we'd have spent anyway. It's hard to explain this to "non-baseball" families....but I'm sure a lot of you feel the same way. Sorry for the rant.....not much going on with no baseball being played right now lol
A couple things from the article.....$15K for a batting cage? C'mon, let's be realistic.......and what family from Canada sends their kid to NJ for hockey? Seems a little bit of a stretch.
Funny timing, but I just got a text from my son, his college passed out equipment today.....he just got handed 2 $250 mitts and a $350 bat....looks like the investment is finally paying off
Some people take it too far, some people don't take it far enough. Traveling cross country multiple times a year for a 10u kid, too far. Leaving a 16 year old throwing 85 in rec ball because the parents don't won't to commit the time to travel ball, not far enough.
When a kid is good at something that they enjoy...chess, swimming, baseball...etc...parents should encourage that thing. Will they be the next Trout, probably not, but could baseball give a kid confidence in himself, the ability to work well with others, and valuable family time in an age where family time is disappearing into a screen... yes.
The amount spent on travel ball is unlikely to be made up in a college scholarship, that should NEVER be the point. Letting kids explore what they love should be the point.
Right after I posted my comment I had second thoughts about something I said. To -me- flying a 10 year-old cross country for baseball seems crazy; but I really shouldn't judge other families' choices, since I do think a kid could grow up to be a happy, healthy adult with that background, which ought to be the ultimate end game for any parent.
My family has spent $$ and time on travel baseball and soccer that others would deem excessive, and less than some other families. Mostly it has been a lot of fun for all. I do wish it were easier to decide how much is enough, how much to push a kid to achieve versus letting them slack off. My parents' only decision was whether to sign me up for Little League. That must have been simpler.
The article certainly takes all of the over the top stories we hear about and combines them. I mean is it really possible to spend six figures chasing a college scholarship?
But here's the thing. It's a monster that feeds on itself. I am sure most of us have seen the following: local org. starts a travel team so the "best" players can see better competition. But then, little Johnny doesn't make the team, so PO dad starts a competing travel team. And the next thing you know you have several dozen competing travel teams around town. That is how are area developed. It was nuts. You look back as the kids are finishing HS and say WTF. Most of those kids you "competed" with on the ball field for roster spots are out of the sport -- golf, girls, jobs, football, etc. Some of them quit because of the BS. All for what? The monster will keep feeding itself.
I have thought many times how much I have spent on baseball with three sons. I wonder some times if it would have paid for an education. But I don't do it just for the scholarships, obviously. But I do it for the smiles on my sons' faces throughout the years. I did it because it makes them happy. But I tell people all the time. Travel baseball and showcase ball is not cheap in any form. But neither is most that makes our kids happy.
PitchingFan posted:I have thought many times how much I have spent on baseball with three sons. I wonder some times if it would have paid for an education. But I don't do it just for the scholarships, obviously. But I do it for the smiles on my sons' faces throughout the years. I did it because it makes them happy. But I tell people all the time. Travel baseball and showcase ball is not cheap in any form. But neither is most that makes our kids happy.
Exactly.....my son''s 15U/16U team still is all in contact with each other. 4 are D1 players, 1 is D2 and 4 others played at least a year of D2 or JUCO. They are actually planning a "reunion" this winter during their winter break from college....just to get back together and hang out for awhile. Heck, my son's 10U coach is still a very good friend of mine. I went and watched his younger son play 3 or 4 times this past spring/summer.
Buckeye 2015 posted:C'mon, let's be realistic.......and what family from Canada sends their kid to NJ for hockey? Seems a little bit of a stretch.
My sister, who lives in FL, sent my nephew to Canada for two seasons to play hockey. He's now on a Jr National team based in Minnesota. She just sent him up there a few weeks ago.
No one will ever convince me this is money well spent until a kid proves he can compete in a 60/90 field. 10u USSSA championship? BFD!
I wonder how much of this is parents living through their kids.
My 2022 played on those exact fields in Sulpur, LA. What a disappointment that must have been for a kid from NY! Silly Parents
RJM posted:No one will ever convince me this is money well spent until a kid proves he can compete in a 60/90 field. 10u USSSA championship? BFD!
I wonder how much of this is parents living through their kids.
I have no problem with an end of the season trip. He can call it a "championship", I call it a family vacation with baseball tossed in.
My son played Little League through age 12.
He played "travel" ball with a group of 12 kids who all attended his middle school from the age of 9 until 8th grade. Those boys and their families are our best friends today. We played all of our games within 100 miles of home, plus one end of season trip somewhere within the state of Iowa that involved a hotel.
They were coached by dads, who had some baseball experience. Parents paid $150 a year to be on the team, local businesses were sponsors, also contributing $150 each — except for the guy who sent us $1,500 for the last year and when we asked if he misplaced his comma said "These kids come in in person every year and thank me, they volunteer in town, they work hard. The parents are my customers and my friends. I wanted to encourage them."
Today, six of those boys are starters on our high school varsity team. Of those, four will for sure play college baseball at some level. My son has four D1 offers, plus assorted D2 and Juco opportunities. He could say yes to any and do just fine.
The choice of how much to invest in your kid's sport is up to each person. Can't imagine skipping a house payment, or a car payment, or taking on a second job to finance it. And honestly, can't imagine that my son would want me to.
FoxDad posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:C'mon, let's be realistic.......and what family from Canada sends their kid to NJ for hockey? Seems a little bit of a stretch.
My sister, who lives in FL, sent my nephew to Canada for two seasons to play hockey. He's now on a Jr National team based in Minnesota. She just sent him up there a few weeks ago.
I wasn't doubting that it happens.....but sending a US kid to Canada to play hockey makes a lot more sense than a Canadian kid going to NJ
Buckeye 2015 posted:FoxDad posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:C'mon, let's be realistic.......and what family from Canada sends their kid to NJ for hockey? Seems a little bit of a stretch.
My sister, who lives in FL, sent my nephew to Canada for two seasons to play hockey. He's now on a Jr National team based in Minnesota. She just sent him up there a few weeks ago.
I wasn't doubting that it happens.....but sending a US kid to Canada to play hockey makes a lot more sense than a Canadian kid going to NJ
The only way this makes sense is if the kid is playing in the Junior Flyers (or similar) program. But it's not as if there aren't Juniors programs in Canada. I'm guessing playing in NJ allows him to travel to Canada and compete against teams he couldn't make.
A baseball version of this would be 2009 4th pick Tony Sanchez. No one in the south showed any interest out of high school in Miami.. He went to Boston College and blossomed into a top prospect.
Something I don't like about this article is making specific references to children. I'm against the objectification of preteen athletes as much as preteen beauty queens. It's not mentally healthy for the kids. There's a difference between confidence/self esteem and having an ego overinflated.
I'm sure plenty of posters here are in the same boat. From the day my son took the field/court in any sport parents were saying, "You won't have to pay for college." I acknowledged them, smiled and thought "you don't have a clue." Plus a lot can happen between the preteen years and high school.
I thought it was bizarre a private high school coach came to watch my eleven year old son play a LL game. When introduced I was polite and accepted his compliments. But I went home thinking, "scouting a freak'n 4'10" 85 pound 11yo on a small field for high school?"
We managed to save a ton of money over the years just from playing within our state and, when my Kid showed some promise, having him play up.
Why travel 3 states over to face kids his age throwing more advanced pitching when he can stay right at home and face pitchers a few years older who are just as good?
Now that my son is starting high school, we are willing to spend more money on travel ball if/when appropriate. But the main thing we are spending money on is Speed & Strength Training, Hitting Instruction, and Academic Tutors.
A 3.8 GPA freshman year means more to my Kid's potential future than anything he could do on a Baseball field his freshman year. Its like I've said here before: if he has a poor freshman season nobody is going to care by the time he's a Junior/Senior provided his Baseball skills develop. If he has a 2 something GPA his freshman year that can be disastrous for his overall HS GPA
CaCO3Girl posted:Some people take it too far, some people don't take it far enough. Traveling cross country multiple times a year for a 10u kid, too far. Leaving a 16 year old throwing 85 in rec ball because the parents don't won't to commit the time to travel ball, not far enough.
When a kid is good at something that they enjoy...chess, swimming, baseball...etc...parents should encourage that thing. Will they be the next Trout, probably not, but could baseball give a kid confidence in himself, the ability to work well with others, and valuable family time in an age where family time is disappearing into a screen... yes.
The amount spent on travel ball is unlikely to be made up in a college scholarship, that should NEVER be the point. Letting kids explore what they love should be the point.
Caco3 says it all. Yes we did all the travel ball, tournaments, Showcases, college camps, private instructor lessons, etc. We did it because my son loved the game and wanted to UNDERSTAND the game. Spent many thousands of dollars for 10 years. Do I regret it? No Way! This gave us the opportunity to have family bonding (yes my daughter loves baseball as a spectator). We had family vacations, met wonderful teammates and parents and most importantly we knew where our kids were and what they were doing. This created valuable lessons in life for all of us. I used to listen to other parents plan what their 10 year old phenom will be doing to get a college scholarship or become a pro. I look back now and some of these kids quit baseball at an early age because of the pressures and expectations by people. Others never made it in high school ball for a variety of reasons. Few ended up playing beyond that. I made a promise to myself that when the day came where my son came to me saying he didn't want to play baseball again, I would honor his wish and walk away, no questions asked. Thankfully that day never came since he received a baseball scholarship to a D1 college and is now playing professionally. Even if he never made it this far we had a wonderful time being a family. The memories are priceless.
Chico Escuela posted:Thanks for posting the link to this article.
I'd say the piece is cherry-picking some extreme examples (anyone flying 10 yr olds cross country for baseball tournaments has a real problem, even if the disposable income is there), but it certainly points to a real issue that I know everyone on this board has seen. When my son was nine yrs old, he was told by a run-of-the-mill local "select" soccer team that he needed to drop baseball because it caused him to miss two games out of a 20-game season. (That experience caused him to quit soccer for several years, which was a shame.)
If could do it over, there certainly a few times I would make some changes to avoid being That Parent. And keeping perspective is only going to get harder as more folks invest in chasing youth sports money. It's an arms race: if the kids competing with yours for spots on the team are paying for private hitting coaches to prep for Elite Select Travel tee ball, then you may need to do it, too, if your kid is going to play. Unilaterally disarming by opting out has its costs.
My kid played Little League through 12U with a little travel ball mixed in. He may be a little behind some kids who were more serious about baseball earlier, but I think he learned a lot about leadership and teamwork by playing with kids who could barely throw or catch. (And I learned a lot by trying to coach those kids and dealing with their parents. "I don't think it's a good idea for Johnny to play 1B until he's less at risk of getting hit in the mouth by throws from the other infielders...")
No particular point to my post, other than thinking out loud... In the end, life is lived forwards and understood (if at all) only backwards, I suppose.
I'm really not so sure how much baseball schools help. There's a lot of God given talent and God's providence involved. I've seen kids with rich dads who could pay for all kinds of training who just aren't that good. Sometimes the kid doesn't have that much talent. Other times, dad gave the money to the wrong trainer. Some training does often help, but natural skill usually is the biggest factor in success. However, I would advocate for time spent training over time spent playing.
Agree about the God Given Talent. There is a senior at my sons high school who wants to go to the next level BAD....he takes lessons, he buys special training equipment....it doesn't help, he's a LHP throwing 75, and he's not a little guy, he just doesn't have the God given talent. He's a really nice kid too, it's heart breaking.
If my kid could only have his size, or he have my kid's talent.
Kids who are "young" (8-12) should be exposed to a variety of activities. Coaches who insist giving up other sports to devote 100% to one is a not in the best interest of the kid. They will have this requirement when they are older. By playing travel or elite ball, you as a parent can see how little Johnny stacks up against better kids. From that you can get an idea if he has the talent to take him further as he gets older. Getting private lessons is expensive. If you as a parent want to enroll him in lessons to watch him get better, that may be the wrong reason. If little Johnny likes the game and HE asks you how to get better then lessons may be a good option. There is no way to predict how far he will go with baseball. Case in point. My son at 8 years old was selected to be on a tournament team through his league. His skills were ok, but he was towards the bottom compared to other players. One game he didn't get to play (yes there was no mandatory playing time in this league). HE came to me, sad, and said he wants to get better and never sit on the bench again. I went through a few private instructors until we found one we liked. The lessons were not to be an 8 year old stud, but to be able to compete and be at the same level as others. Some kids need extra help to build their confidence and provide enjoyment in something important at that age.
Just curious, does God hand down genetics from generation to generation? Does God say, "Hey you with the 5'7" dad. I'm going to make you a 6'2" flame thrower." Or are there some tall people in the genetic family tree?
But after what a kid gets from genetics he still has to want it. He has to have the motivation and out in the work.
CaCO3Girl posted:Agree about the God Given Talent. There is a senior at my sons high school who wants to go to the next level BAD....he takes lessons, he buys special training equipment....it doesn't help, he's a LHP throwing 75, and he's not a little guy, he just doesn't have the God given talent. He's a really nice kid too, it's heart breaking.
Sad but often true. I don't fault the kid though. He is doing everything he can to get to the next level, as expensive as it may be. Even today sometimes I think back and wonder "What If......." I did/didn't do this. He is chasing his dreams, you never know...
RJM posted:Just curious, does God hand down genetics from generation to generation? Does God say, "Hey you with the 5'7" dad. I'm going to make you a 6'2" flame thrower." Or are there some tall people in the genetic family tree?
But after what a kid gets from genetics he still has to want it. He has to have the motivation and out in the work.
There is no doubt. A kid who is a high end athlete is usually blessed to be born to a family that has size and athleticism. And to boot, his or her family usually has a solid work ethic to pass on to the child.
If they are blessed to be born into that kind of family while also getting the high end of the genetic potential and the work ethic, they really have something to be grateful for.
RJM posted:Just curious, does God hand down genetics from generation to generation? Does God say, "Hey you with the 5'7" dad. I'm going to make you a 6'2" flame thrower." Or are there some tall people in the genetic family tree?
But after what a kid gets from genetics he still has to want it. He has to have the motivation and out in the work.
Genetics play a huge part but yes you need the motivation, work habits and luck. Those who lack the physical size, athleticism, genetics must rely on something else. As I mentioned in a previous post, I firmly believe they have to UNDERSTAND the game and become a student of the game. Think about it, many coaches in baseball and basketball were not "superstars"in their sport due to physical attributes, talent, etc. What gave them the edge to play professionally is they understood the game better than more talented players. Not to many top pro athletes are great coaches because, my opinion, they relied more on talent and ability than being a student of the game.
Only the most freakish natural athletes can get away with playing in MLB without a passion for both the game and for hard work. As you go on down the line (MiLB, Independent Leagues, D1, D2, D3 etc) there is a place for the genetic freaks who don't love it. Eventually the game weeds them out at some level
RJM posted:Just curious, does God hand down genetics from generation to generation? Does God say, "Hey you with the 5'7" dad. I'm going to make you a 6'2" flame thrower." Or are there some tall people in the genetic family tree?
But after what a kid gets from genetics he still has to want it. He has to have the motivation and out in the work.
My sons dad is 5'10, his dad was 5'10. Bio-mom is 5'5....bio-moms dad was 6'4. Kid turned 15 two weeks ago and is just shy of 6'2...I refuse to count his James Dean hair....I still have him beat :-). Glad to know she was good for something :-)