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2 calls in a game that were funny but were also so bad

O OA5II1,000+ posts
Runners on 1st and 2nd, 2 outs and batting team down by 1 run in top 6. Kid hits a ground ball down 3rd baseline and umpire yells "Fair Ball". Well the runners get to their bases, stop and turn around and start walking back to their base and batter back to batters box. Ball is thrown in to pitcher who is walking back to mound. He steps on the mound and the home ump is just staring at him with mask off. Catcher stands up and says something to umpire and yells for pitch to throw him the ball and he does and tags the batter. Ump calls him out.

Next game, same crew. Runner on 1st with 2 outs and a 2-1 count. Runner takes off to steal second and the pitch is delivered and it is a ball. 2nd baseump says ball 4 and the runner eases up. At the same time the catcher throws down and the SS tags the runner before he gets to the base. The ump then calls runner out. The kid says you just told me that was ball 4. The 2 umps discuss it and call the runner out. Coach claims he was told "kid should have known and it doesn't matter what we told him"

So glad we were playing on another field that tournament.
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Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by OA5II:
Runners on 1st and 2nd, 2 outs and batting team down by 1 run in top 6. Kid hits a ground ball down 3rd baseline and umpire yells "Fair Ball". Well the runners get to their bases, stop and turn around and start walking back to their base and batter back to batters box. Ball is thrown in to pitcher who is walking back to mound. He steps on the mound and the home ump is just staring at him with mask off. Catcher stands up and says something to umpire and yells for pitch to throw him the ball and he does and tags the batter. Ump calls him out.

Next game, same crew. Runner on 1st with 2 outs and a 2-1 count. Runner takes off to steal second and the pitch is delivered and it is a ball. 2nd baseump says ball 4 and the runner eases up. At the same time the catcher throws down and the SS tags the runner before he gets to the base. The ump then calls runner out. The kid says you just told me that was ball 4. The 2 umps discuss it and call the runner out. Coach claims he was told "kid should have known and it doesn't matter what we told him"

So glad we were playing on another field that tournament.


There have been, at times, posts questioning why umpires are trained to follow standard mechanics and don't deviate when requested by coaches and others. These are excellent, though extreme, illustrations of why umpires indeed need to follow standard mechanics.

Fair batted balls should never be verbalized and it is not the BU's job to give the count to anyone.

That said there is no remedy for the first situation and, indeed, absent a real call of FOUL, the players are expected to play on. The out stands. (Where was the base coach during all this?)

In the seoond situation, the umpire could have fixed his screw-up.

What level was this tournament? Is there a possibility these guys were beginners, or were they just untrained (self-trained) old Charlies?
Last edited by Jimmy03
K Kumi10+ posts
Couple questions. You say that it's not the BU's job to give the count. Do you also mean in between pitches when a fielder or runner turns to you and asks for the count, as the BU you should ignore it or refer them to the PU?

On the topic of keeping the count, I was on another site and a guy (don't know his credentials or what levels he was referring to)was saying that when he worked the plate he never bothered using a counter. Others chimed in and some used them and some didn't, it was strictly a personal preference. But this gentleman went on to say that if his partner working the bases was using a counter, he would tell him to stick it in his pocket and he didn't want to see it again. He claimed that it was insulting as the PU for the BU to be using a counter. Is that common practice at levels above high school? Also, is tapping the top of your head a proper mechanic for asking your partner to confirm the count?
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
The count is PU's responsibility. When I'm BU and asked by a base coach or player for the count, I refer them to the PU. I keep track of the count for my own purposes, but I could be wrong. I don't need a base coach up my butt because he gave instructions to his runners based on incorrect information from me.

Some umpires do not carry an indicator on the bases. I do not. It's not too difficult to remember three numbers. Some feel it looks ridiculous for the BU to be staring at his indicator between pitches and that he may be distracted from what he should be doing...watching the ball.

In most areas I've worked, the sign used to confirm the count is the twirling of the left and right hand index fingers in front of the body.

I have run into the attitude you describe. At my first D-1 game many years ago, on the way to the field my crew chief asked to see my indicator. I handed it to him and he chucked it about 50 yards and said "thanks." I got the message.
O OA5II1,000+ posts
Jimmy,

This was a 14u Major tournament.

I think the base coach was like everyone else at the game in that when a ground ball is hit down the line and you hear "fair ball" it sure sounds like "foul ball" because if it was fair you normally don't hear anything. All players, coaches and fans acted like he said foul ball because no one told them to get the out. It wasn't until the catcher said something to the home plat umpire.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
In the first sitch I missed the Fair ball call. I agree that that puts him in a tough spot but even by screwing up with a bad verbal he should have been showing fair. He should have kept showing fair to try and fix his mistake. On the other side of the coin, the base coaches should be paying better attention.
On the second sitch, I am one that carries an indicator on both the plate and bases. If my partner says don't then I'm OK with it. I don't show counts on the bases and if asked by a fielder, I will comfirm with the PU. In some areas the tapping the head is a signal for the count but my guys use the twirling fingers.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
OA5...

I dont think we were thinking of that....

I am always disheartened when I hear of these issues that happen, especially those that we consider breakdowns in basic fundamental umpiring mechanics or knowledge...

I believe a basic clinic for the umpires in situation 1 would have cured that issue. Trained umpires are taught NEVER to verbalize fair ball...which was the cause of the problem...

Like Jimmy says in situation 2 any trained umpire would know he could correct that error by rule....


As to Indicators...

I have a HS association that urges both umpires to keep the count and have indicators...it is not mandatory....at higher levels, it is clearly the PU responsibilty and some do not take kindly to a BU using an indicator....

I do not care if they do or not....I do care if all they are doing is staring down at the indicator when their attention should be on the bases... things happen fast above HS ball and that second you glance down or fidget with a wheel could mean a missed balk or pickoff throw.....

I have done many games sans indicator....I find it can keep me focused on the game better....
Last edited by piaa_ump

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