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2010 Metro Scout League

SC Some call me the space doctor, some call10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by wraggArm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by iluvgoodbaseball:
Quote:
Duh! MONEY

What is it about youth baseball that makes people think its corrupt or evil to run a reasonably profitable business in that market? ...

They're trying to make money offering a better product at a fair price. ...QUOTE]

"...reasonably profitable.."?
"...fair price..."?

I agree they can and should make a profit. My appraisal is their model is far and above "fair" and "reasonable".

Lets discuss 16U for example:
Income is $575 x 145 players = $83,375
The invite letter has a conflicting $675 ea but I believe that is type from 18U.

Expense estimates
Unis (1 hat and 1 shirt) $40(high) x 145 = $5,800
Fields (4 x 5 games x $200/game)= $1600
Umps (2umps x 4 x 5 games x $75/game) $3000
Baseballs (10 dozen @ $40/doz)= $400
Coach pay= $1000 x 8 teams (Note:edited from original post - forgot to mutiple by 8 teams)
My subtotal is $18,800 but lets round up to include insurance, overhead, and misc expenses. Call it $20K. To my way of thinking, thats roughly a cool $63K in profit on $83K income. I'd call that well above fair and reasonable.

I know I'm not the only parent who is paying attention, as other fellow parents not on this board have commented. Anybody else look around that church for "Mustang roundup" or look at the team listings and do the math @ $2k per player? Cha-ching!
Last edited by Some call me the space doctor, some call
wraggArmwraggArm500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
My subtotal is $11,800 but lets round up to include insurance, overhead, and misc expenses. Call it $13K. To my way of thinking, thats roughly a cool $70K in profit on $83K income. I'd call that well above fair and reasonable.


I sure hope Mr. Griffis is moving more money around than $83K if he's trying to run a business. $70K Net is absolute chicken feed. That won't even replace the day job.
Last edited by wraggArm
wraggArmwraggArm500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by CoachTraub:
Thanks for bringing me up, Wragg...

For those who don't know me, evidently including you, my business mission is to "over-deliver value on goods and services designed to help you win the mental side of the game." I'm enormously successful (meaning that I've earned the peace of mind that comes from knowing I'm giving my best effort).


And I said...

quote:
and there's even one guy who pitches some kind of "Mental Skills" training without ever spending a dime on honest advertizing.


What part did I get wrong? You ARE paying for your advertizing out here? In that case, forgive me...I shouldn't have presumed.

It just seemed like you were getting free connectivity to your web site by talking openly about your product and including the hot-link in your signature. In actuality, I really had no idea that you were paying for your posts.

mea culpa
Last edited by wraggArm
RS Robert S.100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
quote:
Originally posted by wraggArm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by iluvgoodbaseball:
Quote:
Duh! MONEY

What is it about youth baseball that makes people think its corrupt or evil to run a reasonably profitable business in that market? ...

They're trying to make money offering a better product at a fair price. ...QUOTE]

"...reasonably profitable.."?
"...fair price..."?

I agree they can and should make a profit. My appraisal is their model is far and above "fair" and "reasonable".

Lets discuss 16U for example:
Income is $575 x 145 players = $83,375
The invite letter has a conflicting $675 ea but I believe that is type from 18U.

Expense estimates
Unis (1 hat and 1 shirt) $40(high) x 145 = $5,800
Fields (4 x 5 games x $200/game)= $1600
Umps (2umps x 4 x 5 games x $75/game) $3000
Baseballs (10 dozen @ $40/doz)= $400
Coach pay= $1000
My subtotal is $11,800 but lets round up to include insurance, overhead, and misc expenses. Call it $13K. To my way of thinking, thats roughly a cool $70K in profit on $83K income. I'd call that well above fair and reasonable.

I know I'm not the only parent who is paying attention, as other fellow parents not on this board have commented. Anybody else look around that church for "Mustang roundup" or look at the team listings and do the math @ $2k per player? Cha-ching!


The REAL question is: is it worth $575.00 "to you" for your son to be seen by these scouts and coaches? If yes, pay it. If no, be quiet and don't pay it.
N Newscout100+ posts
First off this does look like a pretty good little profit deal. But your numbers are way off. I happen to know they (Umpires and Craig Ranch) look at this like it is 2 games not 1 game. So you need to double some of your cost and I also happen to know that your field rental is about 5x low. 4 fields x 10 games x 5 weeks = about 12K.

Once again who cares if it is 20K profit or 40K profit “It’s a BUSINESS” If you don’t like the business don’t pay for the service.

Last thing I will say about this. I bought a car on Craigs list 2 months ago for 4K I knew I hit a homerun. Just yesterday I sold the same car for 7K. Is that bad? Am I a bad person? Or am I just smarter than the other guy. Lets talk among ourselves.
Last edited by Newscout
SC Some call me the space doctor, some call10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Robert S.:
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
quote:
Originally posted by wraggArm:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by iluvgoodbaseball:
Quote:
Duh! MONEY

What is it about youth baseball that makes people think its corrupt or evil to run a reasonably profitable business in that market? ...

They're trying to make money offering a better product at a fair price. ...QUOTE]

"...reasonably profitable.."?
"...fair price..."?

I agree they can and should make a profit. My appraisal is their model is far and above "fair" and "reasonable".

Lets discuss 16U for example:
Income is $575 x 145 players = $83,375
The invite letter has a conflicting $675 ea but I believe that is type from 18U.

Expense estimates
Unis (1 hat and 1 shirt) $40(high) x 145 = $5,800
Fields (4 x 5 games x $200/game)= $1600
Umps (2umps x 4 x 5 games x $75/game) $3000
Baseballs (10 dozen @ $40/doz)= $400
Coach pay= $1000
My subtotal is $11,800 but lets round up to include insurance, overhead, and misc expenses. Call it $13K. To my way of thinking, thats roughly a cool $70K in profit on $83K income. I'd call that well above fair and reasonable.

I know I'm not the only parent who is paying attention, as other fellow parents not on this board have commented. Anybody else look around that church for "Mustang roundup" or look at the team listings and do the math @ $2k per player? Cha-ching!


The REAL question is: is it worth $575.00 "to you" for your son to be seen by these scouts and coaches? If yes, pay it. If no, be quiet and don't pay it.


I've already answered that. No it is not worth it. However, I'm certainly not restricted from discussing this in an open forum.
BR Big Red100+ posts
Funny how no one has mentioned that MSL is a good tune up for the spring season...good luck finding that kind of talent in a school fall ball league.

This might be slightly off-topic, but I think it's good that the kids have to use wood. Take all of that technology out of their hands and they actually have to develop an approach. Go figure.
SC Some call me the space doctor, some call10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Newscout:
First off this does look like a pretty good little profit deal. But your numbers are way off. I happen to know they (Umpires and Craig Ranch) look at this like it is 2 games not 1 game. So you need to double some of your cost and I also happen to know that your field rental is about 5x low. 4 fields x 10 games x 5 weeks = about 12K.

Once again who cares if it is 20K profit or 40K profit “It’s a BUSINESS” If you don’t like the business don’t pay for the service.

Last thing I will say about this. I bought a car on Craigs list 2 months ago for 4K I knew I hit a homerun. Just yesterday I sold the same car for 7K. Is that bad? Am I a bad person? Or am I just smarter than the other guy. Lets talk among ourselves.


Don't know the exact figures for any of this, but I'm throwing out a rough approximation. The 35 team league we ran through 2008 paid $35-40 per game per ump. I used a higher number for my estimate. If you want to share exact figures, then great. Please do so, all of them.

Congrats on the car. Well bought, well sold, enjoy the profit.
SC Some call me the space doctor, some call10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by wraggArm:
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
My subtotal is $11,800 but lets round up to include insurance, overhead, and misc expenses. Call it $13K. To my way of thinking, thats roughly a cool $70K in profit on $83K income. I'd call that well above fair and reasonable.


I sure hope Mr. Griffis is moving more money around than $83K if he's trying to run a business. $70K Net is absolute chicken feed. That won't even replace the day job.


Thats just the 16U, fall MSL only. How many age groups does DBAT have?
SC Some call me the space doctor, some call10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Gibson:
If I'm not mistaken I believe it cost $575 to play league ball or be on a fall select team.


Depends on the team. Last fall, the boy played for a high school team and they charged us $150 to cover the fall jersey, league fee, baseballs. Not much profit there, but they rolled the excess into the kitty for spring. Played on his select team and in the same league and it was $500.
N NuffSaid10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Gibson:
If I'm not mistaken I believe it cost $575 to play league ball or be on a fall select team.


Depends on the team. Last fall, the boy played for a high school team and they charged us $150 to cover the fall jersey, league fee, baseballs. Not much profit there, but they rolled the excess into the kitty for spring. Played on his select team and in the same league and it was $500.


That's because on the fall HS team you've got daddy's that coach the team at no charge so they can have their nose up the HS Head Coaches a** in hopes of getting playing time for little Johnny. Select coaches usually get paid and don't have a kid on the team. There is also no guarantee of playing time with the select team while most if not all players will get playing time on the HS team because the HS coach wants to see how they will do.
Last edited by NuffSaid
SC Some call me the space doctor, some call10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by NuffSaid:
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Gibson:
If I'm not mistaken I believe it cost $575 to play league ball or be on a fall select team.


Depends on the team. Last fall, the boy played for a high school team and they charged us $150 to cover the fall jersey, league fee, baseballs. Not much profit there, but they rolled the excess into the kitty for spring. Played on his select team and in the same league and it was $500.


That's because on the fall HS team you've got daddy's that coach the team at no charge so they can have their nose up the HS Head Coaches a** in hopes of getting playing time for little Johnny. Select coaches usually get paid and don't have a kid on the team. There is also no guarantee of playing time with the select team while most if not all players will get playing time on the HS team because the HS coach wants to see how they will do.


Naye. Ex-player who still lived in the area came in and coached the team as a nice gesture to the coach and the program so no daddyball. You can pretty well bet your bottom dollar that the head HS coach set the lineup, positions, play time, and substitution pattern.

We are fortunate that we have a good HS program and think highly of our coaching staff. Having ex-players who donate their time and pay back to the community is a good indicator of the coach and the program.
Last edited by Some call me the space doctor, some call
TripleThreat2TripleThreat210+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:

On another note don't get hung up on the name on the uniform, it makes no difference. Be more concerned with the coaches name and how hard he is willing to work and teach your son baseball.

Could not agree more about the coach's name matters more than the organization/uniform name. Good coaches exist in bad organizations and vice-versa. Bottom line is you have to find a best-fit with your individual situation. We are all on different paths/agendas.


I completely agree with this post! For two years my kid chased the "mega club" scene because he wanted to wear the hat. What he learned was the training/coaching he actually received was sub par. (I would agree.) As he stated at the end of this summer season, "if I'm good enough, someday, when it matters, they'll (scouts) find me. I need a coach who can help me improve ... I don't need a baseball babysitter." I've heard that from several other parents this summer as well who look at the fee and the actual "training" their player received and scratch their heads.

Find a GREAT coach first; and if happens to be with a "mega club" super.
PJ Pick Johnson10+ posts
You can all talk till the cows come home. The bottom line is this - the same coaches/managers/owners/directors always have the best teams, players, and send them off to the best college programs or the professional ranks. All the rest is just blabber. What's that worth to your family and son? $575? $150? $2000? That's up to your family. But the fact still remains, DBAT and the MSL always seem to be there in the end, have the best product on the field, and have the guys making decisions for the next level in attendance.
Last edited by Pick Johnson
SC Some call me the space doctor, some call10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Pick Johnson:
You can all talk till the cows come home. The bottom line is this - the same coaches/managers/owners/directors always have the best teams, players, and send them off to the best college programs or the professional ranks. All the rest is just blabber. What's that worth to your family and son? $575? $150? $2000? That's up to your family. But the fact still remains, DBAT and the MSL always seem to be there in the end, have the best product on the field, and have the guys making decisions for the next level in attendance.


Let me get my checkbook then, just one more payment and my boy will on his way to "the best college program or the professional ranks". Wink
Last edited by Some call me the space doctor, some call
B baseball13mom10+ posts
Most parents of select ballplayers don't think twice about dropping $300+ on a new bat so their player will be a better hitter but some want to gripe about $575 for MSL (5 weeks of play that might get them noticed by a college scout. My son played as a 15u last year and will play again this year. I don't know why everyone is so down on DBAT, if your player wants to go to a showcase it will cost that much for one weekend. MSL is for 5 weeks and they have a proven record of players being signed by colleges all over and drafted by the major league. Give'em a break they are working hard for our kids, it just also happens to be their business and that business makes money.
If you don't want to pay the price go somewhere else and pay their price. Just remember, you get what you pay for!!
Last edited by baseball13mom
N Newscout100+ posts
You have the right to Pick what’s best for you child in the Fall:

Lets all stop with the cheap shots and look at the facts.

A: MSL $575-$650

B: Other select organizations between $500-$600

C: High School Fall Team: $150-$200

Facts:

MSL has the most scouts every week out to watch.
MSL has no travel.
Other select Teams will travel out of town = more $$$$
High School fall team cost is lower.
HS Fall team gets to play with school team and prepare for season.
No scouts at HS fall games.


If your son does not want to play college baseball or is not good enough at this point the choice is very easy, Pick C. That is what I will pick for my son. Sounds like Space doctor should pick to do the same.
A agsnhere100+ posts
I have shot a note to each group that post on this DFW forum what their fall costs are. Lets compare all of the evil organizations/teams and see what we come up with?

You can not compare the HS fall stuff with the select stuff. 2 different animals.

You know i loves to hate me some DBAT, but let see if they are "guilty" of gouging...

Sit back and enjoy!

Gig'em

RS Robert S.100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by NuffSaid:
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Gibson:
If I'm not mistaken I believe it cost $575 to play league ball or be on a fall select team.


Depends on the team. Last fall, the boy played for a high school team and they charged us $150 to cover the fall jersey, league fee, baseballs. Not much profit there, but they rolled the excess into the kitty for spring. Played on his select team and in the same league and it was $500.


That's because on the fall HS team you've got daddy's that coach the team at no charge so they can have their nose up the HS Head Coaches a** in hopes of getting playing time for little Johnny. Select coaches usually get paid and don't have a kid on the team. There is also no guarantee of playing time with the select team while most if not all players will get playing time on the HS team because the HS coach wants to see how they will do.


Oh whatever, I did this for Coach Price at McKinney. As a dad I sat in the dugout and shot the **** with the kids. HS coaches need a little help sometime, it's not about having your nose anywhere. Do you help on field day? Do you go to booster club events? Give me a freaking break. Sounds like the fall "dad" coaches kid played in front of your kid.
tychcotychco1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Robert S.:
quote:
Originally posted by NuffSaid:
quote:
Originally posted by Some call me the space doctor, some call:
quote:
Originally posted by Josh Gibson:
If I'm not mistaken I believe it cost $575 to play league ball or be on a fall select team.


Depends on the team. Last fall, the boy played for a high school team and they charged us $150 to cover the fall jersey, league fee, baseballs. Not much profit there, but they rolled the excess into the kitty for spring. Played on his select team and in the same league and it was $500.


That's because on the fall HS team you've got daddy's that coach the team at no charge so they can have their nose up the HS Head Coaches a** in hopes of getting playing time for little Johnny. Select coaches usually get paid and don't have a kid on the team. There is also no guarantee of playing time with the select team while most if not all players will get playing time on the HS team because the HS coach wants to see how they will do.


Oh whatever, I did this for Coach Price at McKinney. As a dad I sat in the dugout and shot the **** with the kids. HS coaches need a little help sometime, it's not about having your nose anywhere. Do you help on field day? Do you go to booster club events? Give me a freaking break. Sounds like the fall "dad" coaches kid played in front of your kid.


Robert S., I was wondering when you might pop in here. Enjoyed getting to know you this summer. Good luck to CS this year.

I really don't know why this gets everyone going each year. Real simple deal. You don't want to pay for MSL or select each year, don't. The MSL and select organizations provide a service...an opportunity for your kid to be seen by college and pro scouts/recruiters. They do show up and kids benefit from this if they perform on the field. There have been kids that never play in either of these that are good enough and get the same collegiate or professional opportunities. I would have to think that the kids that went this route were slam dunk talents and that the odds are longer, but it happens.

Assess your child, assess your finances and decide. No need to be critical of MSL or select teams. They do provide opportunities. Not every kid gets the exact college he wants every time, but I know they gets their chances to show what they have in front of the right folks.
Last edited by tychco
N NuffSaid10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Robert S.:
Sounds like the fall "dad" coaches kid played in front of your kid.


On the contrary, my kid received ample playing time and has played on a state contender and been a contributor since his freshman year. No disgruntled parent here! Maybe all HS fall programs are not like that, just stating what I have observed.

P.S. I did not help out on field day (just supported my kid so he could get his participation ribbon). And I make it a point to NEVER attend booster club events as there is too much political BS involved there...RIGHT FD!!!!

Last edited by NuffSaid
D Dallas_Spikes100+ posts
The Metro Scout League is the BEST program for the fall.... hands down!!!

I am having an 18U team this fall and have already sent recommendations for my best players to be considered to play in the Metro Scout League.

All the players that I have recommended want to play on my 18U team this fall. Instead of having the best team this fall, I would rather send my guys to the best chance of being seen by college coaches.

I hope this can express the confidence that I have with the Metro Scout League.
RS Robert S.100+ posts
P.S. I did not help out on field day (just supported my kid so he could get his participation ribbon). And I make it a point to NEVER attend booster club events as there is too much political BS involved there...RIGHT FD!!!!

[/QUOTE]

I can tell you if every parent took your stance, McKinney would never be able to host a tournament, the team would be wearing 1990's uniforms and Coach Price would never see his two wanderful daughters because he would be working on the field alone. You missed out on a wonderful experience by not participating. I can also say in 4 years we never had any booster club squabbles, just raised an additional $15,000 a year so our boy's would have top notch stuff! Ever been to Al Alford? Nice place, you can thank Price and several dozen parents every year that it stays that way.
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