2014 College World Series....Who ya got?

Why do more ways to score a single run from third matter when you're down 3 in the 8th and you have to give up an out to get that runner to third? Just bad baseball and inexcusable.

His team won 50 games this year.  I would tend to think he knows the skills of each player  better than anyone else.  Winning 50 games this year isn't a lark.

He is considered one of the best coaches in all of college baseball.

Just a guess but I would think the coaching staff knew exactly what they were doing.

Perhaps it is Texas did their job better in that situation?

I'm not arguing that he is a bad coach. Whether he is or not really doesn't matter. This was a bad decision. There is really no argument otherwise. Saying he's a good coach and his team had a good year is not a valid defense as to whether bunting there is smart. It's not...plain and simple.

You're down three and you're playing for two. The math doesn't work unless your goal to lose by less. If your goal is to win then you better figure out a way to score three and a bunt there isn't the answer.

Looks to me like the goal was to score  2, make it a 3-2(one run game) and be confident the middle of the order gets him one in the bottom of the 9th.

You cannot score 3 in Omaha until you score 1 and 2. He has runners at 2nd and 3rd with one out and feels the top of the order get him 2, gets them momentum, puts pressure on Texas and the middle of the order gets him one in the 9th.

How do you coach for 3 in Omaha when no team is scoring runs in bunches, or hardly at all in some games?

Since you are coaching for 3 in a bunch, what is the answer with a team which is not getting many hits against a pitching staff which is really good and deep?

I hear he made a horrible decision. What gets him 3 in that situation in Omaha with runners on 1st and 2nd and every run is largely station to station, and Louisville has not reached the home plate station in 7 innings?

You just try to get it down to a one run game with 3 outs left... that is really all you can do. Especially if no one is scoring in bunches. If you get to the 9th down 1 and 3-4-5 up, you have a very good chance of getting that 1. Also I'm sure that you've seen that bunt defense can be very suspect at times in the college game. 

 

So Emanski what would you rather have. Down 3 with 3 outs left or down 1 with 3 outs left? There is always the chance that they break it open and score all 3 there and tie it up but as we've seen that wasn't likely.

There are no balls that are going to be better hit with wood than a BBCOR bat... the smaller sweet spot of wood equals more poorly hit balls. I feel like the park is just a bad design for college baseball. Even with the old bats they allow for the Home Run Derby they still don't hit that many out. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they using the same core and just changing to flat seams next year? If so it won't be like the pro ball as MiLB and MLB use livelier cores that NCAA.

Watching the college world series for well over a decade, pitching has always made the difference when you get this far, JMO. I enjoy watching pitchers dual it out more than hitters pounding the ball.

With that said,  I am more or less in agreement with fanofgame, I really haven't enjoyed the series as much since it moved to TD Ameritrade.

Ouch... feel bad for the Texas Tech pitcher that threw the double play ball away.  Love watching this high level of play with so much emotion, so much hard work invested and so much on the line but every once in a while, we are reminded that these are still "our sons" and a misplay at the wrong time can really sting.  Wish the game were won or lost another way.

Happens at every level.  You see Angel Pagan lose a game last weekend? I showed that one to my kid again after he misplayed a fly ball the other day.

I am with you cabbagedad. If I remember correctly my son was charged with a loss while in Omaha. It stings!

 

What some fail to realize, this may also be for some their last game with the same group of teammates and perhaps the last college game as well.

 

What many others also fail to realize is that to get to Omaha is almost an impossibility, I never understood it all until son was in college.

 

Either way it is a memory that will last these players for the rest of their lives.

Just spotted Golfball in the crowd on TV.

What a  day...I had the opportunity to cross off a bucket list item by attending today's CWS games in Omaha.  

 

Very good pitching in both games however the Virginia - TCU game was exceptional.  24 innings of good baseball is about as good as it gets.  For those that talk about the allure of the CWS...now I get it. :-)

While I think the new balls will help at many ball parks,  I don't know that the low seem balls are really going to help enough in Omaha.  In  today's games the wind was steadily blowing in and it held EVERYTHING up. I watched a player absolutely crush the ball but it ended up as a lazy fly ball 60 - 80 feet in front of the left center field wall (about 280 ft).  The corner outfielders where literally setting up anywhere from 225 to 250 ft from home plate.  

 

A few of the locals I spoke to said there is almost always a heavy breeze blowing in so between the field design and bats being used they may need to think about moving the wall 25 feet feet closer if they want to bring back the long ball.

Personally, I think it's fine the way it is.  Games are less likely to take 3+ hours when they are low scoring and remember these are college students and frankly, I like the 2.5 hour game!

 The skilled hitters adjust.  They still hit line drive doubles in the gaps, they just don't get away upper cuts which result in fly balls which are simply outs.  I appreciate the hitters now who have adapted and rely on more then brute force but must strategize and have a better approach, no when to shorten the swing. I think it allows athleticism coupled with thought to rule. I admire that, and the well placed bunt.  Lot's of big hitters simply can't execute a bunt and I don't think there is any excuse for that at the college level.

I love a pitcher's duel just as much as the next person, but to totally eliminate the power/offensive game - as TD Ameritrade does - is ridiculous. ESPN should pay to have the fences drawn in - More exciting baseball = Better Ratings = More money for ESPN. This stadium, although the same dimensions as Rosenblatt doesn't have the jetstream from sitting on top of a hill that the old place had... And, it has a second deck preventing any wind from helping! Maybe next year with the new MLB ball we will see some offense, but I doubt it because of the wind direction...

Our family loves the College World Series including the grandparents.  It is one of two sporting events every year that everybody in the family enjoys a lot and will watch.  As a baseball family, everybody has their own opinions.    You'd think our family of pitchers  likes things status quo or possibly move the fences back further to say.....Iowa.  But , you'd be wrong.  Our 3 pitchers want the fences moved in  Their reasoning is if the pitcher makes a mistake it should be apparent to everyone.

 

I compare Omaha to playing tennis with a wooden tennis racquet or on a clay or grass tennis surface.  In college tennis they play with composite tennis racquets on a hard tennis court.   This is normal.   Would the NCAA then hold its tennis championships using a wood racquet or a different surface such as clay or grass?  Heck no..   It is the same thing with college baseball and Omaha.   It makes no sense to play with the fences that far back!.   Bring the freaking fences in to be consistent with what the players have been using all year!   JMO.

So bring the fences in to 275'?  What else, how are you going to fix this batch of .200 hitters we have this year?  HRs won't fix that.  Creighton hit 8 HRs at home this year.  There were also a handful in the Big 10 tournament.  Pitching is just dominating the hitters.

Ole Miss Christian Trent shut down Texas Tech yesterday and shut down UL Lafayette last week in Lafayette. This guy is on fire, but Ole Miss had to rally to win 2-1 yesterday. The ball park is too big and the pitchers are, and should be the best in baseball.

Pitching SHOULD dominate the hitters day in and day out... But to play at this park where the elimination of power is so over the top it allows for a huge defensive advantage and doesn't penalize pitching mistakes like a normal venue would. Plus it's boring as hell...

TD Dimensions are:

LF - 335, LCF - 375, C - 408, RC - 375, RF - 335 

 

Bring the fences in 20 feet all around and you'll have Rosenblatt all over again! Isn't that what was great about the CWS?

The TD Ameritrade dimensions are only 8 feet deeper in CF and 5 feet deeper in the corners, compared to many, many college parks, including the one I attend most of the year. The wind blowing in must be at least a two club wind, in golf terms.

There's nothing great about a 21-14  championship game.  I don't follow the logic in bringing in the fence 25' when no one's going over 280'...310' fence is still an out.  Maybe we should limit it to 2 outfielders to give the hitters a chance....

There have been a lot of low scoring games from the first round on this year. There's a lot of good pitching on the good college teams. The Omaha Storm Catchers (AAA) are in the top third in homers in the PCL. So is it the park? Or is it the top shelf pitching on the top rated teams in the country? Quality pitching usually stops quality hitting.

The Storm Chasers don't play at TD Ameritrade... They play at Werner Park.

 

Werner Park's dimensions are LF – 310 feet (94 m)
CF – 402 feet (123 m)
RF – 315 feet (96 m)

 

TD Ameritrade is Left Field Line – 335 ft (102 m)
Left Center – 375 ft (114 m)
Center Field – 408 ft (124 m)
Right Center – 375 ft (114 m)
Right Field Line -335 ft 

 

So yes... it is a much larger ballpark than Werner Park.

I like the sound of wood better. Hate the sound of BBCOR bats.

I think they have ruined the college game with them.

 

The pitching was good in years past as well, and I don't like the old rocket launchers,but a ball crushed and hit on the absolute screws shouldn't be an automatic out.

 

My own son prefers wood to BBCOR and so do many players I have talked to.

 

I have only watched Irvine games, I usually at least tape all the games. It just isn't as fun to watch for me this year.

I find baseball fans very interesting.

 

In 1969, the mounds were lowered to attempt to foster a more offensive game. The American League adopted the DH rule for the same reason in 1973. In the early 2000s, many fans became distraught because so many offensive records were being broken. The league instituted new policies pertaining to performance enhancing substances. Now, fans are complaining that hitters are striking out too much and specialized pitching makes the games take too long. In the span of 45 years, we've gone from too much pitching to too much offensive and back to too much pitching.

 

In 2011, the NCAA instituted rules pertaining to the core of metal bats being used. That same year, TD Ameritrade Park opened. The reason behind the change to BBCOR was the insanely high offensive numbers being put up throughout college baseball, which combined with player safety, created noticeable worries for the game. Now, just 3 years later, a coach who's team is currently playing in Omaha calls it a "travesty" that there is a lack of offense in the game, and many fans are complaining about how boring the event is to watch.

 

This may be me playing Devil's Advocate or it may not, but I think it's a legitimate question. What will make the fans happy? Is there legitimate gripe in every aspect of each event, or is it a grass is always greener thought process? What's the solution here?

 

I saw somewhere in the NCAA stats this year average HRs/game was ~.5.  Creighton's stats in TD were .33 HRs/game....not that much different.  Big10 tournament resulted in 5 HRs in 13 games...about the same as Creighton.  The new ball is supposed to fly on average 20' further.  It's the pitching, dominating the hitting. .

 

I didn't see the "travesty" comment, but I doubt that came from a coach that's winning.  Losers always find something to blame. EDIT...just saw it came from TCU's coach...AFTER A LOSS.

Funny regarding the TCU coach because the Pepperdine team from the little old WCC hit three in the Horned Frogs stadium which hadn't given up one in about a month, not even to their own team!   Hitters hit....long fly balls are just outs.  Good hitters adapt and still hit doubles to the gaps and honestly, good ball players can drop an unsuspected bunt now and again.  

 

My son prefers wood bats too and I have no problem switching to wood but I don't think the ball will travel further.  One of the most beautiful things in baseball is an outfielder making a glamorous running catch.  Maybe people just need to find other parts of the game to admire, such as strategy, line drive hitters, great catches that wouldn't be made if the bats were still juiced?  Why complain about a field, both team play on the same field and the best one adapts to the opportunities it provides.  Those that do not adapt lose and that's why it's an exciting game, anyone can win with the right approach....just like a batter

 

The best coach I have ever had an association with told his players NO EXCUSES.  So, it's good advice to other coaches too.  Can't win a CWS with a bunch of slow power hitters anymore because a bunch of players may knock you out!  Honestly, what's wrong with that?  Smart coaches who can put together a well rounded TEAM can beat anyone as we are seeing right now.  Don't complain, look for things to admire in the game you are watching.

The point of my post must have been lost in translation. The coach's remark was an anecdote, it was not the point. 

 

These umps giving 6" on the outside corner should be scrutinize as much as the ball park.

Perhaps some of each?

If the NCAA and ESPN want the CWS to  continue to be a major event and major TV event, and $$$$ event,  I would expect we cannot be hearing announcing of the first HR in almost 2,500 pitches, in game 9 of the CWS. On the other hand, I don't think the solution is HR's.

At this point, BBCOR requires hitters to be very pure to barrel a ball.

Outfields play so shallow, knowing the likelihood of balls hit in front of them is so much higher than  balls over their head, where they cannot get to them.

The practical impact of the top pitching, BBCOR, and the placement of outfielders within 90 to 100 feet of the infielders, changes the game.  Many times a team can get 3 solid singles and not score because the outfield plays so shallow. As I posted earlier in the thread, scoring from 2B on a single is far from a given when an outfielder is getting to the ball not far beyond the infield.

One aspect of change, to me, has to be the bat. Another change has to be the ability to make college hitters even better than they are now. Another is getting college hitters to be much better in the 6-9 holes, if the game continues to be one of almost station to station due to the bat. 

I know some college hitting coaches are already looking at or using drills in an effort to enhance the ability of each hitter to better barrel balls on a consistent basis, up and down the line up.  Whether all the new drills work remains to be seen. Some seem very likely to succeed and make some hitters even better. Whether it can make hitters 6-9 better, consistently,  in ways to impact the game is an unknown.

For those of us who have seen considerable top quality Summer Wood bat leagues, we know the transition to wood against quality pitching leads to very low scoring games for the first 2-3 weeks of each season.  Over that period, hitters adjust, BA's go up, and runs scored per game do the same.

That is not happening with BBCOR, to be honest.

Personally, I don't believe the answer is moving in the fences at TD as I believe that only makes games possibly 3-2 instead of 2-1 with an even bigger focus on the top hitters only. Without  change in the current approach to penalize  a defense which plays so shallow and still keeps the game in front of them, my concern is the CWS becomes almost unwatchable except for those of us who love college baseball. BTW, anyone hearing of a team playing no doubles outfield in TD? In one sense, TD has made the game very one dimensional but it is a combination of TD, BBCOR and great pitching which really leads to that result.

My view is a better understanding of the bats, perhaps expanding the sweet spot on the bat by some margin, controlling the strike zone, and enhanced drills which increase the hand eye coordination of college hitters are parts of the solution to make the CWS an event where there are more posts on the HSBBW than about the World Cup.

It came from UC Irvine's coach, Gillespie. He coached for years at USC. He goes back to the bash ball era.

 

No, it wasn't. The comment was made by Jim Schlossnagle, the TCU head coach. Still not really my point in the comment, though. Maybe I should just delete that part.

 

infielddad- Interesting thoughts. Thanks.

 

I'll use a golf analogy.  Most golfers know a fair course when they play it.  A good shot is rewarded with a good lie and a good next shot.  A bad shot is punished by rough, bunker, OB, etc.  It's not about making the course easy or difficult, it's about allowing good shots to pay off and bad shots to result in extra strokes.  What's going on at TD right now is not rewarding well hit balls, or providing a reasonable chance for the hitters to spread the field.  It's like little leaguers playing on a 60/90 field.  It doesn't seem "fair".  I think that's what fans want, a reasonable chance for a well hit ball to be  rewarded.

 

I wouldn't say it's the BBCOR since HS use them and colleges use them all season long and we don't see this to the same degree.  It's TD park.  They miscalculated the wind.  It's a least a 2 club wind.  I don't know how they fix this.  It seems like they'd have to pick up the park and rotate it 180 degrees.  I hope the new balls help.  20' may not sound like much but it could turn singles into gappers to the fence and maybe a few homers.

Smitty,

I come down on the opposite side. Perhaps some of that is watching Tuesday night games in our area, especially early in the college season,  and outfielders playing a deep infield position for most of the 9 innings..while freezing my b u t t off.

Night games in the SF Bay Area and throughout the West Coast with humidity and cooler temperatures have similar results as the CWS in TD.

For instance, Stanford hit nearly as many HR's in the Bloomington Super as it hit in all season in  home night games at Sunken during the 2014 season. Stanford has power hitters resulting in many long outs in a big stadium during night games in cool weather or with humidity. 

My view is weather plus BBCOR impacts games far more than the stadium fences at TD being 30 feet in or not. But that is one opinion only.

 

Its the park not the bats. There are HR's produced on well struck balls with the BBCOR bats. The same balls at this CWS park are warning track shy fly ball outs. I dont have a problem with BBCOR bats. I have a problem with a park that simply doesnt do the game justice. But as far as this CWS goes every team is playing on the same field so no complains from me. Other than the fact when a kid hits a jack he should get a jack. Not a 340' routine fly ball out because the wind is always blowing in and the park is simply a dead zone. It's the ball park.

Mike Gillespie: Bat changes too drastic, game suffers

 

http://bostonherald.com/sports...drastic_game_suffers

 

Thanks for telling me the quote I cited in my own post. Appreciate the help. http://www.foxnews.com/sports/...-offensive-travesty/

 

I specifically cited Coach Schlossnagle, and specifically quoted the exact word he used. 

 

 

 

Winds have been unusually strong compared to normal winds of 11-12 mph.  Tuesday gusts were up to 40 mph.  Last night they were more normal....first HR too.

 

From the Boston Herald article..."Since the College World Series moved to TD Ameritrade Park in 2011, only 22 home runs had been hit in 47 games through Sunday."  Again, appx .5 HRs/game just like the NCAA average.  The NCAA guy interviewed last night also mentioned all 8 teams were in the top 50 in pitching, but none (maybe 1, forget the exact quote) were in the top 50 in HRs.

It has been my experience that college championship baseball at all levels is about pitching, defense and getting a timely hit. Nothing has really changed from what I have seen. As the brackets wear on you will see poorer (relative) quality of pitching and the scores sometimes go up as well as an occasional blowout.  I would not be surprised if the NCAA sees what happens next season with the new ball and then may make a few minor adjustments.