2018 WWBA Underclass World Championship

You better tell the coach that colleges asked for when your son pitching and get a commitment that he will.  If not, leave that organization immediately!!

Chico Escuela posted:

Anybody else going to the 2018 WWBA Underclass World Championship this weekend?  My first time.  Schedules were posted today and the competition looks a LOT tougher overall than the July WWBA events.  (By which I mean I didn't see a bunch of teams that looked to be a small step above rec league.  A smaller group and just about all looked pretty strong.) 

A couple of college coaches asked my son to let them know when he would be pitching.  But I recently learned his team is bringing a couple of Ps who are P5 commits and who don't usually play for his club.  I get that, but it does make want to ask for a refund of about 50% of what I paid for fall baseball...

Really? I don't see a single California* team, so how strong could it be?!? 

Kidding . . . sort of . . .

*or Arizona, or Nevada, or PacNW . . . 

CTbballDad posted:

You better tell the coach that colleges asked for when your son pitching and get a commitment that he will.  If not, leave that organization immediately!!

I assume he'll pitch.  But probably as a reliever (he is usually a starter), which of course makes it hard to predict which game.  I'm not happy about it, but it's hard to complain too much...  My son has a "top 1000" PG rank, but he has walked far too many batters this fall (also has recorded a lot of Ks and not many hits... but a lot of walks). Clubs promote themselves in large part by doing well at these big events.  I'm not happy, but not exactly angry either.  It's how the travel baseball world works.  

2019Dad posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

 

Really? I don't see a single California* team, so how strong could it be?!? 

Kidding . . . sort of . . .

*or Arizona, or Nevada, or PacNW . . . 

Point taken.  I meant the average team looks a lot stronger than in the July field, when the bottom 20 to 40% of teams really are just there to let their players have the experience of spending a week in GA.  I haven't even looked to see how many of the best overall teams are going to be in Ft. Myers.  My son's team has some D1 commits (apart from the ringers, that is), but they aren't a threat to win the tournament.  

Chico Escuela posted:

CTbballDad posted:

You better tell the coach that colleges asked for when your son pitching and get a commitment that he will.  If not, leave that organization immediately!!

I assume he'll pitch.  But probably as a reliever (he is usually a starter), which of course makes it hard to predict which game.  I'm not happy about it, but it's hard to complain too much...  My son has a "top 1000" PG rank, but he has walked far too many batters this fall (also has recorded a lot of Ks and not many hits... but a lot of walks). Clubs promote themselves in large part by doing well at these big events.  I'm not happy, but not exactly angry either.  It's how the travel baseball world works.  

I've always liked your posts, so I want to be as helpful as possible.  I don't agree that's how travel baseball works, or should work.  I agree there are many teams/organizations that have their owns interests at heart, not necessarily the players.  They pick up players for big tourneys, so they can win and boast of their trophies. I've been in those and gladly walked away before it was too late.

If you're paying for a team that is going to suppress your son, rather than promote him, find one that will. 

CTbballDad posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

CTbballDad posted:

 

I've always liked your posts, so I want to be as helpful as possible.  I don't agree that's how travel baseball works, or should work.  I agree there are many teams/organizations that have their owns interests at heart, not necessarily the players.  They pick up players for big tourneys, so they can win and boast of their trophies. I've been in those and gladly walked away before it was too late.

If you're paying for a team that is going to suppress your son, rather than promote him, find one that will. 

Thanks--I appreciate that.  And I agree with what you wrote.  My son's team has been fair to him thus far.  And I'm hopeful this weekend will turn out all right--if not, then we'll reassess for spring.  If I were running a travel program, it would be hard to say "no" if a couple of P5-committed pitchers were available for a major tournament.  As a parent I get that--it's a question of whether a team still manages to take care of its own players.  

Anyhow--if anyone has helpful suggestions / info about this tournament, pls weigh in.  I have only been to the July PG tournaments in GA (and have never been to Ft. Myers at all).

This is a quality tournament with excellent competition.  Obviously, every team is dealing with losing kids to football, however you should see everyone's best.  You do lose a lot of those "come for the experience" teams because of when the tournament is played.  Enjoy and luck!

Also - FWIW, I do think it is totally OK to ask your coach when your son is on the bump, when college coaches are asking.  There is an element of planning involved, and he should know that.  Even if he's relieving, the coach should have a plan.  If he can't tell you, then that's telling, IMO.

Chico Escuela posted:

CTbballDad posted:

Chico Escuela posted:

CTbballDad posted:

 

I've always liked your posts, so I want to be as helpful as possible.  I don't agree that's how travel baseball works, or should work.  I agree there are many teams/organizations that have their owns interests at heart, not necessarily the players.  They pick up players for big tourneys, so they can win and boast of their trophies. I've been in those and gladly walked away before it was too late.

If you're paying for a team that is going to suppress your son, rather than promote him, find one that will. 

Thanks--I appreciate that.  And I agree with what you wrote.  My son's team has been fair to him thus far.  And I'm hopeful this weekend will turn out all right--if not, then we'll reassess for spring.  If I were running a travel program, it would be hard to say "no" if a couple of P5-committed pitchers were available for a major tournament.  As a parent I get that--it's a question of whether a team still manages to take care of its own players.  

Anyhow--if anyone has helpful suggestions / info about this tournament, pls weigh in.  I have only been to the July PG tournaments in GA (and have never been to Ft. Myers at all).

My son did not go to the Underclass but went to the Upper Class as a junior last year.  For what it's worth, it was a very impressive tournament.  Most of the best teams in the country were there, many great players were add-ons, and there were no teams I saw that were mediocre or worse.  There were dozens of scouts and college coaches at every game and some games seemed to have hundreds.  An advantage of having a couple P5 pitchers added is that it gives your team a chance to go deeper into the tournament and get more eyes on all the players.  Your coach may use the P5 guys in pool play to get a good seeding, or he may save them for bracket play to try to go deep.  It's fair to ask him when you son will pitch so that college coaches can put him in their plans.  I am assuming you've got an active dialog with the coach regarding the colleges following your son and he's actively helping him get recruited.

I agree. You are spending money to attend. You should know ahead of time, when your son is in relief so that you have some control in the recruiting process. Coaches will want to know so they can plan.

Good advice from all--thanks. 

We do get a pitching schedule.  I think son will be on it, probably designated as a RP in one of the games.  That wouldn't be ideal, but is ok.  Adding multiple P5 commits to a roster for one tournament does tend to shake things up.  If the boy is not on the list at all, then yeah, I may need to start a new thread about how to deal with that...  But as I said, his team has been fair to him and historically it is not a cut throat kind of organization.  All will probably work out fine.

Chico:

My son is playing in the Underclass. He’s been to the BCS championships in Fort Myers a couple of times in prior summers but this is our first trip there for this event.

I agree with the others that your coach should be able to tell you what game he will pitch in advance.

Maybe I’ll see you there.

I went last year. It is a really good tournament. I do agree that the pitching there is much better than the summer WWBA. It could be the schedule draw but it seems like the overall competition is a little higher.

That is tough if some ringers come in at the last minute, and take some of your son's innings. I've known some kids who've been on the opposite side...ringers who flew in to pitch. All I can say there is out the team after you have left, if their actions are outrageous.

    In some cases it's justified. A local travel team with a very good rep tends to have really small teams, so as to give everyone lots of innings, but in tournaments where they are going to be playing lots of games in a short space of time they need to have extra arms on hand.

   Other teams have rosters with 18-20 players. Strikes me as a cash grab.

I wouldn't have a problem asking the coach "before" he puts out the pitching rotation.  If there are college coaches asking when your son is going to pitch, it's the coach's responsbility to let you know...and stick to it unless something drastic happens (injury, rainout, etc).  If you wait until after he publishes the rotation, it's likely too late, as all the other pitchers will have already notified the coaches that want to see them.  As now...not later

We've been on both sides of the coin.  We have been on the teams that brought players in and my thought is if you bring them in you better play them.  Plus we have filled in for teams and I have always made sure we had a gentleman's agreement as to what would happen when we played for them.  I have felt bad some times when my sons picked up on teams and ended up pitching complete games at Lakepoint and the players that were with them all the time never got to pitch there.  But the coach made an agreement and stuck to it.  I will say when you pick up in that situation it puts both groups in uncomfortable positions.  Yes, you may help them win but you also feel strongly as an outsider at times.  I have had my sons pick up on teams and no other player speak to them the entire game or games.  But we have also picked up and had the parents and players be very thankful, except the parent or player that you took their time.  I believe part of that is how the coach sells it.  If it is a big tournament and you just bring in players to pitch the extra games then it is normally fine except the parent/player who does not normally pitch but thinks they should.  It is even awkward for me for my son to be PO who only shows up to pitch then leaves.  It seems like many of the parents do not understand his role.  I have heard them ask why he is not there all the time.  Plus the other teams call him "rent an arm."  That was the funny one as they were shouting it from the dugout.

I certainly don't hold it against a player (or his family) when he is asked to be a guest player.  They aren't responsible for dynamics on the team. 

I suppose it comes down to how teams/coaches set expectations.  Bringing in guest players who have already committed and having them take innings from kids on the team who have not yet committed could be justified as helping the team go deeper in a tournament and thus get more looks...  Or not.  Depends on the situation, IMO.  

If we step back and think about it, the travel team tournament system is pretty odd.  I don't think that any other level of competition--Little League, Middle and High School, College, MiLB and MLB--allows teams to add to their rosters essentially without limits.  Imagine if the Dodgers could beef up their roster for the NLDS with a few players from the Rockies, Giants and Diamondbacks?  Why not call up Bumgarner and see if he wants to pitch a couple of games for L.A. in October?  That would be very, very strange.

I'm not complaining:  travel ball is different and we know the rules when we sign up.  But it is an unusual system in a lot of respects.  

Son had a decent outing in 3+ relief innings--not his best, but finished the game and his team got the W.  Velo was down a bit from his prior top and he said he didn't feel all that good on the mound. 

Several coaches he has traded emails with saw him pitch.  None stuck around after the game.  What now?  Should he follow up with those who saw him or just assume they will be in touch if they have anything to say?  And if he doesn't hear anything, should he continue to keep those schools apprised of his schedule as they previously requested?

I would keep updating as usual.  My son completely bombed in front of the school who later offered him and he committed to. Several others saw him bomb at the event and kept talking to him.  Not every outing is amazing.  Just keep moving forward. If they call, be honest.  He didn’t feel great out there, here is what he’s working on type thing.

Keep talking to them.  It has been said on here before but most college coaches want to see you fail if they have seen you succeed.  It is in the failure that they find out what kind of baseball player you are.  I was told the other day about my son by PC where he is committed that he was most impressed by his fight on the mound when he obviously did not have his best stuff yet still gave up no runs.  He said I want to know that when he gets behind he will fight for himself to stay in the game because when that happens the players around him will fight to keep him in the game.  Loved that.

Drove back from this thing last night...currently at work...that's about all my brain can handle.

Maybe he should email all of the schools he saw at the fields and see who responds. Then he can narrow down the list.

I've gone on record in the past stating I'm not a fan of the big showcase tournaments, unless a coach goes to specifically see your son play.  If he hasn't, then he's there specifically to see someone else.

Baseballcomesthird posted:

Maybe he should email all of the schools he saw at the fields and see who responds. Then he can narrow down the list.

Not a bad suggestion, but the “camp” thing is frustrating. There are only so many weekends (and fall baseball takes up many of those). Unless a school already is definitely recruiting your kid, the odds are not good at all to go to a single college’s camp and hope to get noticed. My son has gone to a couple of schools’ events, but those were near us and were mainly for fun/experience. Showball and similar options let you cast a wider net, although they are expensive. 

Based on my sample size of one, the competition in Ft Myers was much better on average than at the July WWBA tournaments in GA.  Son enjoyed it, even if he didn’t have his best stuff. 

Chico Escuela posted:

Baseballcomesthird posted:

Maybe he should email all of the schools he saw at the fields and see who responds. Then he can narrow down the list.

Not a bad suggestion, but the “camp” thing is frustrating. There are only so many weekends (and fall baseball takes up many of those). Unless a school already is definitely recruiting your kid, the odds are not good at all to go to a single college’s camp and hope to get noticed. My son has gone to a couple of schools’ events, but those were near us and were mainly for fun/experience. Showball and similar options let you cast a wider net, although they are expensive. 

Based on my sample size of one, the competition in Ft Myers was much better on average than at the July WWBA tournaments in GA.  Son enjoyed it, even if he didn’t have his best stuff. 

Hang in there.  Son was recruited by a couple of D1 schools.  He attended the camps of the schools that were high on his list, even though very little contact with coaches.  One coach saw him at a showcase when he was a Soph but for whatever reason put him on the backburner.  Summer Jr year, went to a camp that was in top 3 of his list and again little feedback from school/coach, aside from the cordial chit chat. August before Sr. year 2 D1 schools started picking up contact, son gave his verbal in Oct.  Turns out it was same coach who saw him as Soph and Jr. camp, but we didn't know until year(s) later,  Point is, attend top school camps if possible because they may be watching from afar.  Hopefully one day for whatever reason, something will click with HC/RC and they will want your son.  If you eliminate all schools that you "think" has no interest, yet they are high on son's list, you might be limiting your options.  At the end of the day you gave all options a chance.

I would email the coaches of the schools he is most interested in 15-20 with updated stats and maybe a video clip or two.  From the response or feedback, decide if camps seem like a good choice.  Keep sending updates throughout fall and spring.  You should be able to tell if coaches have some interest.  Have you engaged your club coach to make any calls?