Anyone hearing/seeing more than the usual amount of Freshman this spring being red shirted?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Many of the questions you ask are things that are out of your control. Why do you worry so much? How would it help to know? A player should show up prepared for compete and give it his best shot.
@RJM posted:Many of the questions you ask are things that are out of your control. Why do you worry so much? How would it help to know? A player should show up prepared for compete and give it his best shot.
1. Making conversation.
2. Thought it would be a good topic of conversation for anyone with a 2020, 21 or 22 because of the possible cascading impact.
Very few have been redshirted yet since there are more allowed on roster but there will be a lot of them before the season ends.
@PitchingFan posted:Very few have been redshirted yet since there are more allowed on roster but there will be a lot of them before the season ends.
That's my guess too. It's the easy way out of the roster mess situation.
Rosters may expand. But if a kid isn’t on the travel roster he may want to start thinking about a new baseball home or checking out club team ball depending on his desire to continue.
Just seems very easy to red shirt a freshman who doesn't have a baseball scholarship or much of one. He's going to stick around and finish the semester. And, what is he going to do next year? Try the transfer portal? What are the odds of a red shirted freshman with only HS experience getting a better deal with the portal? In the before time, Juco could be an option but those rosters are just as jammed up.
I was looking at a bunch of D1 rosters. A few had over 45 players listed, most were 36-40. Of course, no way to know if that includes freshman walk-ons unless you happen to know one personally. Interestingly, some rosters listed last year's freshmen as freshmen, some listed them as sophomores.
The classifications are all over the place. You almost have to look at the career stats and HS graduation year and factor in 2020 freebie to figure out how many years someone has left. Every school seems to have their own way to list their roster.
@Francis7 posted:Just seems very easy to red shirt a freshman who doesn't have a baseball scholarship or much of one. He's going to stick around and finish the semester. And, what is he going to do next year? Try the transfer portal? What are the odds of a red shirted freshman with only HS experience getting a better deal with the portal? In the before time, Juco could be an option but those rosters are just as jammed up.
Chances are a redshirted freshman who transfers is going to end up at a school that recruited him out of high school.
Here’s an ugly story ... Son’s travel teammate headed for a P6 (before Big East imploded). Head coach never saw him play. The recruiting was all on the assistant and good word from a connected high school coach/former D2 All American. The kid showed up in the fall. The head coach didn’t like his game. At first, the coaching staff tried to change everything about him. The kid was strong with raw power.
The kid didn’t make the travel roster. Halfway through the season and a couple of twenty run blowouts at home he didn’t get in the game. He walked into the coach’s office to ask “What’s the deal?” The coach told him by spring he had decided the kid had no future with the program and was going to tell him at the end of the season. One year down, no playing time.
Note: This isn’t the only kid I know who was told a semester later than he could have been told it’s likely over at that school.
Soph year he transferred to a local P6. He has to sit out a year with the transfer rule. Two years down, no playing time.
He returned academic junior year all psyched to compete. He found an all state switch hitter with a bazooka for an arm at his position. The kid’s arm was sore. But it was all or nothing time. He injured his arm and had surgery. Three years down, no playing time. End of baseball career. The kid left college despondent.
What a nightmare RJM
The ugly stories can be scary. They’re out there everywhere. The lesson is make a sound school choice. I felt the kid in the above story reached. Show up 100% physically and mentally ready to compete. Even then, it can still go south. So be 100% prepared to prevent a bad experience.
My kid went to a JUCO this year, easy decision. He was a 2020 with good interest from D1 coaches, but never got the offer.... even PWO. So it was D2 or JUCO. Hearing these stories make me happy that he didn't get that last minute D1 offer (most likely PWO), knowing his mindset at the time he would have taken it. He will be at his JUCO for 2 years, and he is maturing every day (baseball wise and life). I feel like we dodged a bullet and got "lucky" with no offers. He said the same exact thing..... that's maturity.
Sorry a little off topic, but the RJM story had me reflecting.
MNBBG
@MNBaseballGuy Reading your post was deja vu for me. My 2021 was just like your kid. Solid D1 interest that never resulted in an offer. His JUCO offer had a 30-day time clock on it so it's at least technically possible a D1 offer still could have come, but thank Jesus my son was ready to be done with the process and took the very good JUCO offer. He has a trajectory to be LOVED at the JUCO, but any D1 offer that would have come later would have had him on a LIKED trajectory. Everyone always says "go where you're loved," but I don't think it's ever been more true than it is today in the Covid era. It was really hard to let go of the bright lights of D1 (at least directly from high school), but today I am stupid thankful a D1 offer never came. That seems so bizarre to type out, but it's so true. But he did get lucky/dodged a bullet.
@DanJ so glad we never got the time clock on any of his offers. Just seemed like it would add stress to a situation that already had enough. His JUCO told him its his offer, and they will give him time. Said eventually they would have to make other MIF offers, but we had time. Also said if we commit and a D1 offer comes up that he loves, no hard feelings at all.... go for it. The statement these guys made that will live with me forever was something like, We understand you have not been playing baseball for 18 years to get an offer from (insert JUCO here), we know you fell short of where you wanted to be. We are here to get you there, and if that offer comes. We will be so excited for you
They had me hooked as a dad. 
MNBBG
With the Big Ten scheduling, it will take a hell of a lot of pitchers for 4 games a weekend.
I actually feel the time clock on my son's offer was more than fair. He was the program's first 2021 offer and the amount of money they offered him was clear on how serious they were about him. It was a very generous offer and they want guys who truly want to be there. The coach is a no nonsense guy and he'd rather lose a recruit than sit around trying to guess what'll any kid will end up doing on whatever time frame the recruit decides. Essentially, "we've offered you a very good offer which clearly says we really want you. But we want recruits who truly want us back." No coach wants to be a kid's fall back offer. The coach put zero pressure on my son whatsoever. He gave him a great offer and a fair amount of time (a month) to think it all through. He told my son there'd be zero hard feelings if he passed on the offer, but if he wasn't truly interested, than they'd want to get on with recruiting someone else and build their 2021 class. That's more than fair from my vantage point. Why should a kid get as long as he wants to decide? There can be only one answer - he wants to wait around and see if he can land a "better" offer. This coach has no interest in those types of kids. Nor would I. Baseball recruiting isn't a buffet where as a kid gets all his options laid out perfectly before him and then simply selects the one that benefits him most. Life is never that way with anything. Recruits and coaches are supposed to be in a symbiotic relationship. Respect and integrity is supposed to go both ways. That's the ideal, anyway. Also, my son is a MIF, which is another way of saying he's a dime a dozen. In the Covid era. Where 1,000 D1 kids are in the transfer portal. And money is tight for every program. Needing more than a month on a very generous offer sends a certain message. I can't blame any coach for rejecting that message. This isn't some pressure-ridden 72 hour clock where a coach is trying to force a kid's hand. It's about putting the program above any recruit.
@francis7
The team roster provide a flat dimension.
E.G 2021 Reinhardt Distribution by Position
Upon looking at the team roster turnover, you will be able to understand and estimate number of "new" freshman on the team.
Team Roster Turnover Outgoing (how many players from 2020 are not on 2021 roster)
Team Roster incoming identifies new players, note you can see a lot of freshman in the Total incoming column and 1 freshman in the incoming transfer column.
This means there is a player on the roster listed as a freshman that transferred in.
Team Roster Turnover Incoming (New Players) by position
This is the starting point.
Attachments
Images (4)
Patriot League is limiting both home and away game rosters to 27. This allows more room/social distancing in the dugouts. Rosters are set before the weekend and can't be changed (due to Covid testing protocols). So big rosters or not, red shirt or not, there's going to be a whole lot of players missing out on opportunities. It wouldn't surprise me if other conferences adopted this scheme for the same reasons.
Big 12 is 30 in the dugout, home or away.
My 2020 is a RHP in the MAAC which is playing a conference only schedule. He'll likely be in school through his masters. With a conference only schedule there are only so many innings to go around. Him being red-shirted wouldn't be the worst thing in the world IMO.
Redshirts don't become official until after the season ends, so I'm not sure who's listing players as redshirted already.
You don't necessarily declare a redshirt year. You can travel/dress for every game. You can warm up in the bullpen in every series and get as far as the on deck circle, but as long as you don't enter into the game at any point you can redshirt for that season.
@PABaseball posted:Redshirts don't become official until after the season ends, so I'm not sure who's listing players as redshirted already.
You don't necessarily declare a redshirt year. You can travel/dress for every game. You can warm up in the bullpen in every series and get as far as the on deck circle, but as long as you don't enter into the game at any point you can redshirt for that season.
Players have been told they are redshirting. I know of quite a few that were told after the Fall or were told in the last few weeks that they will redshirt this season.
@d-mac posted:Players have been told they are redshirting. I know of quite a few that were told after the Fall or were told in the last few weeks that they will redshirt this season.
I understand they get told what the plan is, just unusual to see them listed as RS before the season even started, given it isn't official until the summer. If a bunch of guys get injured, you would assume they would pull the redshirts off a few guys.
@PABaseball posted:I understand they get told what the plan is, just unusual to see them listed as RS before the season even started, given it isn't official until the summer. If a bunch of guys get injured, you would assume they would pull the redshirts off a few guys.
I don't think anyone is being listed as a redshirt, but they are told you aren't playing this year and aren't traveling with the team. I'm sure the 40-50 man rosters are the main reason. My kid's JUCO had 5 D1 transfers at semester and all of them but one were told "you can stay and redshirt and not play or you can go to JUCO and get playing time. I agree that if injuries or covid hits a team that those plans will change.
@d-mac posted:I don't think anyone is being listed as a redshirt, but they are told you aren't playing this year and aren't traveling with the team. I'm sure the 40-50 man rosters are the main reason. My kid's JUCO had 5 D1 transfers at semester and all of them but one were told "you can stay and redshirt and not play or you can go to JUCO and get playing time. I agree that if injuries or covid hits a team that those plans will change.
It seems schools are documenting the covid grade classification in various ways.
Upon reviewing some of the P5's
Clemson tagged their players with '*' to identify their eligibility. If a player has multiple '*', it means they have another form of redshirt previously.
University of Florida is doing a hybrid
Illinios and and Mississippi State are posting academic/eligibility grade class
I don't necessarily look at a red-shirt year as a reason to look for another home right away. Yeah.. its not ideal, but that is the reality of rosters now. Seniors stayed and are taking innings away. Schools can adjust their recruiting in out years, kids can develop, positions will open up. My son's team is heavy with returning seniors and every position in the field had a returning player, including the rotation and bullpen. 2 Freshman saw action... one was a DH and the other pitched 2/3 of an inning. The team they played had a several true Freshman play but they also brought in 19 Freshman this year so i think its Just the composition of their roster. Another local team i follow had only 2 freshman play in their 3 game series. perhaps things will change with 4 game conference weekend series but i think this is the reality. In my son's case, I am encouraged that of the 9 starters this weekend on his team, 4 were RShirted as a Freshman and the first guy out of the pen pitched 1.1 innings as a Fresh.
@Francis7 posted:Anyone hearing/seeing more than the usual amount of Freshman this spring being red shirted?
No. In fact we have seen a lot of freshman play from lots of teams (mid d1, top 25) during mid week games to get ready for their conference games.
Freshman are the future of any team, and shouldn't be sitting on the bench.
I think the numbers are a little higher because the number of players are a little higher. It also depends on the make-up of the team. I've looked at rosters around SEC, ACC, and a lot of other type schools that son has friends playing on. The number of red shirts is relational to the number of players on the rosters. Some P5 schools did not get a lot of older guys who came back and others had large numbers come back. Those who had large numbers come back have redshirted more freshmen and sophomores that were not playing last year. I don't know that you can truly call it considerably more because it really depends on the size of roster returnees. But if you have a large number of returnees that were not expected to return then there has to be a larger number redshirted, not always by choice of the coaching staff but by just reality. The best freshmen are still playing but the guys who would typically get midweek play only are not getting it this year and this is not the year to get hurt on most rosters.
I don't know that all the teams are proactively redshirting (in case they need them at some point in the year) since there are no roster limits. But there are kids who haven't played and may end up as redshirts.
I know one school with 6 freshman pitchers on it and one of those kids is pretty sure he will never pitch this year to keep a chance to be red-shirted. He throws 95. School has 13 other pitchers on the roster who are not freshmen.
@baseballhs posted:I don't know that all the teams are proactively redshirting (in case they need them at some point in the year) since there are no roster limits. But there are kids who haven't played and may end up as redshirts.
How many on roster?
I know many players at various level schools that have not played a pitch or inning yet that have not officially been redshirted but have been told they would be redshirted and are being treated like redshirts. I also know many that are already redshirted and some that in a normal year might be working quicker to rehab but are being told they do not have any plans to use them this year. It is not like they are not giving guys a chance because I think a lot more guys have gotten playing time to this point in the season than previous years. Last year pre-SEC, UT had thrown 15 guys and this year at that point they have thrown 20 guys. They have batted more guys this year than last and that is true with most teams I have looked at. There are just so many more guys that you can only find adequate playing time for so many so why would you not redshirt a guy who you do not think will provide you with adequate innings or outings to use up one of his years of eligibility. So it is not a bad thing but part of the 2020 pushback.
We have 23 pitchers. 9 freshmen pitchers. They all touched at least 94 in the fall. Four have touched 96 or more. Of the nine, four haven’t played yet. 42 on the roster total.