2021 Roll Call

adbono posted:

Zia2021 posted:

ADBONO, thanks for the input. Some of us on this thread already know each other personally, and are well aware of the things you said and agree with them. So we started from a point where all that was assumed and moved forward into some specifics. But you did a good job of summarizing a lot of valid points from many other threads for new people who stumble upon this thread. 

Gotcha. If that’s the case have you thought about a group PM? 

I decided to start it here to allow as many 2021s to participate as possible thinking we could take it to a PM if needed at some point. Plus, these public forums are searchable, but PMs are not. It’s nice to be able to search back on posts when needed. I also thought all the old timers could add info if they wanted to help us out, but could also ignore us if they wanted as well. :-)

NYCDAD, I guess you missed my earlier post where I said "the other 1800 or so "Top 500"'s". The was a little joke. You will find there are quite a few "Top 500"'s per class by the time they graduate HS. Way more than a thousand. So if you are are Top 1000 you are really ranked somewhere in the 2000-3000+ range. Top 500 should really mean "501-999" and "we can't really differentiate #501 from #999 so we give them the same "Top 500 label. Remember, that label is across ALL positions. They do differentiate Top 500s by position. But the reality is Top 500 could mean anywhere from a 500 to 2000 overall ranking.

Not to dwell to much on rankings but honestly most people I talk to don't have a clue how it works so I thought I would share what I know with everyone. I have made these observations over the last few years--and yes, I do have an account, so I do see the rankings. PG grades are a whole other mystery! You will find some kids ranked fairly high who have no grade because they have not attended a PG event where grades are given.  This makes sense because PG does see players at PG tournaments and other events such as USA Baseball and Area Code games.  You will also find a few players who don't have published grade on their profile and yet they actually do have one--you can see this using "advanced search". 

Rankings don't matter. At all. Unless you're trying to work an invite to PG National or the PBR futures they mean nothing. The 13th overall pick in the MLB draft wasn't highly ranked by PG, he wasn't even a PG All American, yet he was the 5th high schooler off the board. Mine is ranked top 15 in our state for his class. He's not even listed on PBR. We've never been to a paid PBR event. He's currently at a P5 school. 

A coach might take a look at the rankings to make sure he's not missing anybody when he heads to a tournament or knows he is going to be watching a a kid play for a strong program and wants to see what else they have. I really think the rankings are just a way to draw people to the site. It's a legitimate source that is pretty accurate. People want to see who the #1 player in country is. They go to PG for that. Joe Smith from CT is a pretty good player. He wants to see where he's ranked. 44? His parents see that and take him to a showcase for $699 to get that ranking up because they think coaches recruit based on rankings. It's extra clicks (more ads) and more money being spent on showcases. All this talk about how PG has all these crosscheckers and eyes everywhere. You ever seen one at a non PG event? The guys are good at identifying talent, but it's all about who you play for and how your perform at their events. PG puts out a very good product. I'm pro PG. But the rankings are more of a crapshoot based on how well you've done at their events. Not exactly an accurate indication of how good these players are compared to each other. More of a - this is who's done well at PG - situation. 

All that PABASEBALL says about rankings is true. My experience is the same as his. A high ranking had nothing to do with my son getting recruited - and it certainly didn’t matter once he got on a college field. National Scouting Services (and other orgs) have convinced baseball consumers that having a high ranking is essential to be recruited. It isn’t. It is all a marketing ploy. Just another part of monetizing youth baseball. Rankings look nice on a baseball bio. That’s about it. It is especially foolish to chase rankings if your destination is a D3 school. Your money would be better spent in many other ways

Trying to convince my kid about the ranking relevance. I will tolerate it as long as it keeps him motivated to work on getting stronger, faster and improve his skill set

I have zero concerns or expectations regarding rankings.  Doing a PG & PBR Showcase, is, for us, about having documented measureables that can be sent to college coaches as part of ongoing communication.

just to clarify, agree about rankings being irrelevant, was just asking because PG's seem completely convoluted unless you are in the top of your class.

Rankings are for the paying parents only.

There is no relevance to a players skill set or opportunity to play college baseball.

Parent of 2013 Minor Leaguer

BaseballBUDDY posted:

Rankings are for the paying parents only.

There is no relevance to a players skill set or opportunity to play college baseball.

 

Parent of 2013 Minor Leaguer

 

Thank you, sir ! 

@adbono, @PABaseball. Thanks for your input. @BaseballBUDDY, that alone could start a very long discussion. 

PABaseball references the #13 pick of this year’s draft, Keoni Cavaco. To say PG didn’t have eyes on him would be misleading, he played in 9 PG events. The PG grade came when he was a rising sophomore, so there is some support for the argument of not showcasing until you have something to showcase. The most recent events he participated in, WWBA and Jupiter, he didn’t perform well at all. His star started shooting after playing in a Southern California scout ball league and he drew attention with his bat. He has legitimate speed and a very strong arm, usually closing for his HS team and clocking  93-94 on the gun. He is not a pitcher, he was exclusively used to close. He hit well in a weak high school league, and when he did face good pitching he did not perform well. Considering the Padres had the #6 pick in the draft and they passed on the local kid, and drafted another SS, one has to wonder if the Padres scouting had it right and the Twins were too optimistic on the kids raw skills. Rookie league was not kind to him.

And please don’t take this as me being unkind to him, if you compare his rookie ball performance to other HS 1st round picks this year, he performed far worse. Lots of rawness, not a polished product though.

What's every one doing this Fall?  My son is playing with a strong 18U travel team playing some great Fall tournaments.  He will do one more multi team showcase the second weekend of October, then will shut it down for 2 weeks with no Baseball activity, and after that will work on hitting and fielding but no throwing for an additional 6 weeks.   

Travel team practices start up in November.   

@3and2Fastball ha thanks for returning the thread to what it was originally intended!  My son is focusing almost entirely on training, explosiveness, lower body muscle gain, and technique. Also grades and ACT.  That’s the big push.  He’ll play with his travel team but it’s really just an extended work out/try out for the 2020 showcase summer team.  No showcases and MAYBE one camp. 

He’s on the radar of the kind of HA schools he wants to be on, now he just has to get keep getting better.  2019 was R&D and a little preview, 2020 is official product launch 

He is practicing with HS team, taking a conditioning class at school, and working out on his own. If he works hard and improves this fall, he will do at least 1 winter prospect camp at his first choice (even though it’s a stretch school for sure). We still haven’t heard anything from our new summer team org about practicing this fall or doing any events. 

My 2021 has decided to go the pitcher only route. He is only playing in 1 fall ball tournament showcase and is working out three days a week with one of his teammates. They are working with a pitching coach specifically chasing velocity. He hit 81 over the summer and has a good ways to go to be in a place where he is attractive to some of the D2's that he is interested in.

Either way, he is in a position to have a good Jr and Sr Season in a solid HS program, which is what he was aiming for when he started this adventure 6 years ago.......

As far as contact from college coaches: a plethora of invites to college camps. All group emails with unsubscribe buttons at the bottom. 

Was thinking about the irony of how some folks will put less emphasis on measureables, however the reality is that every single college coach pays attention to measureables these days...

You can like it or not like it, but the game is the game.  And measureables are a huge part of the game.  Your opinion doesn't change that, and the game will continue just fine without you.  Run 7.0, throw 85+ across the infield, have a 95+ exit Velo, and you will get attention from D1 coaches.  That is just the straight reality of the situation.

3and2Fastball posted:

Was thinking about the irony of how some folks will put less emphasis on measureables, however the reality is that every single college coach pays attention to measureables these days...

You can like it or not like it, but the game is the game.  And measureables are a huge part of the game.  Your opinion doesn't change that, and the game will continue just fine without you.  Run 7.0, throw 85+ across the infield, have a 95+ exit Velo, and you will get attention from D1 coaches.  That is just the straight reality of the situation.

Gee, that sure is a good looking shiny new car!  I wonder if it has an engine it it ?!?  

Many on this board who have been successful at getting their kids recruited have repeatedly told you that being a really good ball player is what got their kid recruited. Not measurables.  The straight reality (as you put it) is this : really good players usually have good measurables AS A RESULT OF BEING A GOOD PLAYER. They didn’t become a good player by focusing on measurables. I talk to college coaches every week. They don’t ask about measurables (other than fastball velo). They all talk about seeing players with their own eyes. But you can believe whatever you want. You can lead a horse to water ......

@adbono  the ONE measurable that seems to carry full weight is fastball velo.  My guy gave up 7 walks all summer, had a sub .70 WHIP against solid competition all season.  Clowned kids at HF with his location and off speed stuff.  Guys who were turning on other kids heaters. Suspect he would have been signed (he certainly got conversations started) if he was throwing high 80s as opposed to low 80s.  But that velo threshold appears to be the reality so all good...just have to keep training for that one specific thing and suspect the rest will fall into place. 

Wechson posted:

@adbono  the ONE measurable that seems to carry full weight is fastball velo.  My guy gave up 7 walks all summer, had a sub .70 WHIP against solid competition all season.  Clowned kids at HF with his location and off speed stuff.  Guys who were turning on other kids heaters. Suspect he would have been signed (he certainly got conversations started) if he was throwing high 80s as opposed to low 80s.  But that velo threshold appears to be the reality so all good...just have to keep training for that one specific thing and suspect the rest will fall into place. 

That’s true and it’s frustrating to a lot of us.  And I was a hard thrower ! Not saying I’m a total convert but point is to get hitters out.  Keep doing that and someone will give him a chance. Problem is that it may not be where you want. That makes for tough decisions. 

Being in Alaska, the measureables have opened the door, but the ability to actually play gets them in the room...

adbono posted:

Wechson posted:

@adbono  the ONE measurable that seems to carry full weight is fastball velo.  My guy gave up 7 walks all summer, had a sub .70 WHIP against solid competition all season.  Clowned kids at HF with his location and off speed stuff.  Guys who were turning on other kids heaters. Suspect he would have been signed (he certainly got conversations started) if he was throwing high 80s as opposed to low 80s.  But that velo threshold appears to be the reality so all good...just have to keep training for that one specific thing and suspect the rest will fall into place. 

That’s true and it’s frustrating to a lot of us.  And I was a hard thrower ! Not saying I’m a total convert but point is to get hitters out.  Keep doing that and someone will give him a chance. Problem is that it may not be where you want. That makes for tough decisions. 

He’s almost certainly aiming for HA D1 or D3.  If for whatever reason the off-season adds truly significant speed then we’ll cross the bridge, a good problem to have outcome.  He seems happy with this direction. 

Zia2021 posted:

adbono posted:

Zia2021 posted:

ADBONO, thanks for the input. Some of us on this thread already know each other personally, and are well aware of the things you said and agree with them. So we started from a point where all that was assumed and moved forward into some specifics. But you did a good job of summarizing a lot of valid points from many other threads for new people who stumble upon this thread. 

Gotcha. If that’s the case have you thought about a group PM? 

I decided to start it here to allow as many 2021s to participate as possible thinking we could take it to a PM if needed at some point. Plus, these public forums are searchable, but PMs are not. It’s nice to be able to search back on posts when needed. I also thought all the old timers could add info if they wanted to help us out, but could also ignore us if they wanted as well. :-)

She She-er ?!?  That’s wonderful news. 

Wechson posted:

adbono posted:

Wechson posted:

@adbono  the ONE measurable that seems to carry full weight is fastball velo.  My guy gave up 7 walks all summer, had a sub .70 WHIP against solid competition all season.  Clowned kids at HF with his location and off speed stuff.  Guys who were turning on other kids heaters. Suspect he would have been signed (he certainly got conversations started) if he was throwing high 80s as opposed to low 80s.  But that velo threshold appears to be the reality so all good...just have to keep training for that one specific thing and suspect the rest will fall into place. 

That’s true and it’s frustrating to a lot of us.  And I was a hard thrower ! Not saying I’m a total convert but point is to get hitters out.  Keep doing that and someone will give him a chance. Problem is that it may not be where you want. That makes for tough decisions. 

He’s almost certainly aiming for HA D1 or D3.  If for whatever reason the off-season adds truly significant speed then we’ll cross the bridge, a good problem to have outcome.  He seems happy with this direction. 

Hope it works out ! 

Wechson posted:

adbono posted:

Wechson posted:

@adbono  the ONE measurable that seems to carry full weight is fastball velo.  My guy gave up 7 walks all summer, had a sub .70 WHIP against solid competition all season.  Clowned kids at HF with his location and off speed stuff.  Guys who were turning on other kids heaters. Suspect he would have been signed (he certainly got conversations started) if he was throwing high 80s as opposed to low 80s.  But that velo threshold appears to be the reality so all good...just have to keep training for that one specific thing and suspect the rest will fall into place. 

That’s true and it’s frustrating to a lot of us.  And I was a hard thrower ! Not saying I’m a total convert but point is to get hitters out.  Keep doing that and someone will give him a chance. Problem is that it may not be where you want. That makes for tough decisions. 

He’s almost certainly aiming for HA D1 or D3.  If for whatever reason the off-season adds truly significant speed then we’ll cross the bridge, a good problem to have outcome.  He seems happy with this direction. 

A low 80s 2021 should be able to get up to mid 80s by next summer. You appear to be form NY. If you're looking at schools in the NE, the D1 divisions are not like the D1s down south or out west for the most part, mid 80s will get you looks and mid to high will get you offers. I'm assuming your kid is a RHP, the numbers are lower for a lefty.

The school that my son eventually committed to had seen video and rapsodo reports on him. When they finally got out to see him, he came in in the 6th inning up 3-2, gave up several bloop hits and got walked off on in the 7th.

Final line was: 1.2IP, 5H, 2R, 2ER, 5K, 1BB, and he hit a kid with the bases loaded in the 6th. But he was 87-88 with and had just hit 90 down in GA. Velo will open doors.

Being able to play Baseball well, is the obvious prerequisite.   

Each level of Baseball has certain standards for measureables that are necessary.  

The fact that every single 2021 parent who is posting here understands all of that is not lost on me...

3and2Fastball posted:

Being able to play Baseball well, is the obvious prerequisite.   

Each level of Baseball has certain standards for measureables that are necessary.  

The fact that every single 2021 parent who is posting here understands all of that is not lost on me...

It’s not lost on me either....

Players MUST pass the eye test first.

College Recruiters are looking for Atheletes that they can project as future players.

Once they determine they want a player, there may be a need to use measurables to create a short list.

Measureables alone will not secure interest, albeit pitcher mph is always critical.

IMO, Measurables are helpful when differentiation is needed.

When have you heard, “I don’t see him playing in my system; But show me his measurables and I might find a spot for him.”

Develop and Use Baseball smarts, be an impactful player, make good plays, look the part, and show enthusiasm and enjoyment on the field. The rest will come if your attending the right events and showcases

nycdad posted:

Wechson posted:

adbono posted:

Wechson posted:

@adbono  the ONE measurable that seems to carry full weight is fastball velo.  My guy gave up 7 walks all summer, had a sub .70 WHIP against solid competition all season.  Clowned kids at HF with his location and off speed stuff.  Guys who were turning on other kids heaters. Suspect he would have been signed (he certainly got conversations started) if he was throwing high 80s as opposed to low 80s.  But that velo threshold appears to be the reality so all good...just have to keep training for that one specific thing and suspect the rest will fall into place. 

That’s true and it’s frustrating to a lot of us.  And I was a hard thrower ! Not saying I’m a total convert but point is to get hitters out.  Keep doing that and someone will give him a chance. Problem is that it may not be where you want. That makes for tough decisions. 

He’s almost certainly aiming for HA D1 or D3.  If for whatever reason the off-season adds truly significant speed then we’ll cross the bridge, a good problem to have outcome.  He seems happy with this direction. 

A low 80s 2021 should be able to get up to mid 80s by next summer. You appear to be form NY. If you're looking at schools in the NE, the D1 divisions are not like the D1s down south or out west for the most part, mid 80s will get you looks and mid to high will get you offers. I'm assuming your kid is a RHP, the numbers are lower for a lefty.

The school that my son eventually committed to had seen video and rapsodo reports on him. When they finally got out to see him, he came in in the 6th inning up 3-2, gave up several bloop hits and got walked off on in the 7th.

Final line was: 1.2IP, 5H, 2R, 2ER, 5K, 1BB, and he hit a kid with the bases loaded in the 6th. But he was 87-88 with and had just hit 90 down in GA. Velo will open doors.

Yes spot on all around.  Banking on Northeast evaluation curve, such as it is, and his grades, size, and positive personality to push it all through next spring/summer.  And a few more MPH of velo... :-)

A 2020 kid from my son's Fall Team just commited to a mid major D1 yesterday.  Don't let anyone tell you that "time is running out" for D1 if your kid is a 2021 just starting his high school Junior year.  

All

Cast a wide net, show a real interest in your top schools

I’m shocked that parents don’t think attending fall practices of your top schools isn’t necessary. Go there 

The best way to show interest is leaving Johnny at the field and providing him an opportunity to say , “Hey Coach, I’m Johnny and am really interested in XU, so I wanted to see what type of player you recruit.”

It amazes me that players don’t attend Colifiate Summer league games either 

How do you know what you want if you haven’t seen it? TV?

Most won’t use this approach, which is more reason to do it

Good Fishing

3and2Fastball posted:

A 2020 kid from my son's Fall Team just commited to a mid major D1 yesterday.  Don't let anyone tell you that "time is running out" for D1 if your kid is a 2021 just starting his high school Junior year.  

 

My son knows two 2020s who just committed to P5 schools.