I've recently heard of two NJ 2021s that are considering the Sarlo option and coming back for a 5th year of High School ball - because they didn't get any college offers.
@Francis7 posted:I've recently heard of two NJ 2021s that are considering the Sarlo option and coming back for a 5th year of High School ball - because they didn't get any college offers.
Normally that seems pretty dumb for most kids, but with the extreme logjam in College Baseball right now, that could make sense especially for kids that are emotionally immature and are at risk of falling behind academically in their freshman year of college.
High School kids in 2020 and 2021 missed out on a ton of social and emotional development due to the pandemic, and many missed out on in person school for 12-18 months etc... it will have a bigger effect on that generation than most are willing to reasonably look at, at this time.
@Peach49 posted:Moniak is still very young at just 22 years old. I wouldn’t give up on him off just yet. He probably would have been better served playing a full season in AAA before being thrust into the majors.
Strongly agree. Kid has elite speed and defense in CF. Hit .273 in Spring Training. Made just 8 errors in his entire Minor League career. Hit .252 in AA ball in 2019, then missed an entire year of development last year. Will he be a superstar? Tough to predict that, but he’s hardly a bust, yet
Moniak is too young combined with the circumstances of the past year to give up on him. He probably isn’t ready for MLB. If the Phillies believe they’re a contender they need a better short term solution. If they’re also rans one option is to let him struggle and learn in the majors if his head can take it.
Well I guess we shall see how this ages, I am pretty comfortable based .259 in AA being his top season and watching him look totally over matched at every opportunity and the fact he is all but dismissed in every minor league scouting report and because the only reason he is in the MLB is due the Phillies have the worst centerfield production in the last 100 years.... yep I feel pretty confident.
Who else thinks Old school is John Middleton?
@2022NYC posted:Who else thinks Old school is John Middleton?
that is awesome! Oh man a guy can dream! True story though is he was a client of mine....as in I did Some work For his company and was only a light year away from meeting with him
@2022NYC posted:Who else thinks Old school is John Middleton?
Okay, that’s pretty funny. Those of us that have a sense of humor appreciate posts like that.
@RJM posted:From having been through the journey as a player and twice as a parent from what I’ve seen and been told it’s not uncommon for a player at the back of the roster not to get a reasonable chance.
A friend’s son played for a mid major. On Sunday of opening weekend the kid hit a game winning pinch hit double against a ranked program. He didn’t see the field again for ten games. By the end of freshman year he was 4-10 with four RBI’s. He was stuck behind a 1B/DH and a 1B/DH/P. Soph year he went 4-10 again. The kid offered to try LF. The coach turned him down.
The other two 1B hit .220 for two years. But they were getting baseball money. They played and played on. The third year they started showing something.
Opening Day Eve of his junior year the kid was told his services were no longer needed. He spent two years as insurance/3rd string 1B. He was the best high school defensive 1B I’ve ever seen. He wasn’t even used as late innings defense.
The kid crushed the ball in BP. Teammates were shocked when he wasn’t rostered. He wasn’t offered baseball money. He was insurance. By the third year he was no longer needed.
This was a kid who was three time all conference at large classification high school. He ran a 6.9 sixty. Measuring exit velocity wasn’t a big thing ten years ago. But, this kid hit the ball as hard as anyone I saw in high school.
Do you think this is just an example of a kid not picking the right school from the get go? If he'd have gone not to a lower level but maybe a different school on the same level where he was "loved" do you think this situation would have been different?
This almost makes it sound like that once you get baseball money you are locked in as one of their "guys" and a starting position.
I can tell you a few dozen stories about players who got Baseball money and never played, losing their spots to players who didn’t get Baseball money.
Its all anecdotal evidence here, for the most part. It’s true though, that in general the bigger the prospect, the bigger the money spent, the longer the leash a kid gets.
I’ve seen 10 players from our area alone in the last 6 years who were big time prospects, getting Baseball money, signed to SEC or Big Ten teams and told to leave the program after a year.
Ultimately, the Coach needs to win to keep his job.
My Grandson, who just signed for a fairly large scholarship was told by the Coach that while he will be given every opportunity to earn a starting job he is still expected to earn his spot.
@3and2Fastball posted:I can tell you a few dozen stories about players who got Baseball money and never played, losing their spots to players who didn’t get Baseball money.
Its all anecdotal evidence here, for the most part. It’s true though, that in general the bigger the prospect, the bigger the money spent, the longer the leash a kid gets.
I’ve seen 10 players from our area alone in the last 6 years who were big time prospects, getting Baseball money, signed to SEC or Big Ten teams and told to leave the program after a year.
Ultimately, the Coach needs to win to keep his job.
Agree with all of that. People (outside of baseball) just don’t understand how good you have to be to get on the field at any SEC school, or the top programs in other P5 conferences. They assume that if they were at all recruited (money or not) that they belong. Many find out 90 days later that they were never in the plans in any way whatsoever. That’s why the more experienced people on this board preach “do your homework.” But it seems to fall on deaf ears initially. Only after the fact do people understand - and then it’s sometimes too late. You better really understand what you are getting into.
@$tinky posted:Do you think this is just an example of a kid not picking the right school from the get go? If he'd have gone not to a lower level but maybe a different school on the same level where he was "loved" do you think this situation would have been different?
This almost makes it sound like that once you get baseball money you are locked in as one of their "guys" and a starting position.
All three first basemen were new his first year. One was a transfer. So there was no way to look at the roster and think the school is the wrong choice. All I ever saw in high school was a kid who crushed the ball and picked everything. Maybe in college it was a negative he wasn’t elevating the ball.
Only being a first baseman can be limiting. Some schools don’t recruit first basemen. They move someone there.
Theres no doubt if a player gets money they get preference. It doesn’t mean they succeed. But they often have to fail before the no money guy gets his shot.
The kid hit .400 in limited at bats. There wasn’t much more he could do without an more opportunity. He’s the last guy I would ever consider to be an attitude problem.
I’m sure my Grandson is not the first player the coach has said “You’ve got to earn your spot” to, but based on the substantial amount of baseball money they are giving him we are confident he will be given ever opportunity to prove himself. But he definitely is going to have to prove himself if he expects to last in the program.
@Peach49 posted:I’m sure my Grandson is not the first player the coach has said “You’ve got to earn your spot” to, but based on the substantial amount of baseball money they are giving him we are confident he will be given ever opportunity to prove himself.
A coach needs to keep his job. If a kid wanders out of basket weaving class onto the field and is better, he's competing for that spot.
Everyone always says (and they're right) "go where you're loved," but I think the smartest thing to do is go where you're loved and then erase it from your mind that you're loved. "Go where you're loved, but always work like you're not."
you may be loved but if you don't produce you'll be on the bench...you may still be loved, probably not as much though...
It is true that those that are given a lot of scholarship money will probably get more chances than the normal player. My son has struck out a ton this season (D2 Freshman) but has hit well when making contact (hitting just under .300 with 5 HR and 20ish rbi, 3 triples and 7 doubles I think appx 110 at bats..I wonder if another player (walk on, smaller scholarship) would be given such tolerance...in D2 though at the end of the season the scholarship can be modified so there's always that posibility
@DanJ posted:Everyone always says (and they're right) "go where you're loved," but I think the smartest thing to do is go where you're loved and then erase it from your mind that you're loved. "Go where you're loved, but always work like you're not."
Go where you’re loved only means the player gets a quality opportunity to prove he belongs. A lot of players don’t understand a NLI is only the opening of the door. Now the player has to prove he belongs and should be on the field. About half of players fail at proving they belong.
Sometimes it’s just plain failure. I know of (met him) a Gatorade Player of the Year who went to a top ranked program and hit .117. He didn’t last long in the lineup. He transferred to another P5, made some level of all conference and was drafted. Sometimes it’s a less recruited player not getting a full opportunity to prove himself.
I'd actually disagree with @RJM but only due to the verbiage used. I think most players understand NLI only opens the door and that they have to prove themselves for things to pan out. What I think most players DON'T understand is how hard it'll actually be to prove themselves. They don't understand the odds. They don't understand that pre-college success is not a guarantee of post-high school success. They don't understand that even in a classroom full of A students, someone has to be ranked dead last. God love the youth and their naivety, but 99% of them sincerely believe that proving themselves is inevitable barring an injury. My 2021 son is one of them. I fully expect that to change here very soon. 
There is a powerhouse JUCO 15 minutes away from here who typically carries 50+ on their roster (plus a JV team). I know some of the kids there and many who will be there soon and I can tell you EVERY one of them sincerely believes that he will be one of the ones who will prove himself. But the school bell is ringing. It's education time.
A handful of players on a roster will have “can’t miss” talent and play. A few at the back end of the roster will be up against it to stick on the roster. For most of the players it will be about what’s between their ears not talent.
It will be about being physically and mentally ready when opportunity knocks. Some kids will put their head down when they fail. It will have them with one foot out the door.
I know this has become a common theme in many of my posts - but I keep seeing it everywhere I go and I keep reading posts from others that indicate little to no comprehension of the current situation regarding recruiting, so...... I saw a crosstown rival HS game last night. One team has a stud ‘21 catcher that was an early commit to U of Houston. This week UofH pulled their offer (don’t know details on NLI) to give the scholarship money to a returning senior. We have heard this before but Stud catchers are rare and if it happened to this kid it could happen to anyone. Along the same lines, this morning I talked to the RC at the JuCo I help with and he was telling about how many kids are coming back for their 3rd year of JuCo because they can’t find a 4 year school that needs any more players. This is basic economics - the supply of good players far exceeds the demand for their services. Kids in the transfer portal have a rude awakening coming their way. Point being, if you are a ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23 and you want to play college baseball, you better have an open mind, get realistic, and think outside the box. A lot of people that stay on the “conventional path” will come away with nothing. JMO but signs are everywhere.
@adbono posted:I know this has become a common theme in many of my posts - but I keep seeing it everywhere I go and I keep reading posts from others that indicate little to no comprehension of the current situation regarding recruiting, so...... I saw a crosstown rival HS game last night. One team has a stud ‘21 catcher that was an early commit to U of Houston. This week UofH pulled their offer (don’t know details on NLI) to give the scholarship money to a returning senior. We have heard this before but Stud catchers are rare and if it happened to this kid it could happen to anyone. Along the same lines, this morning I talked to the RC at the JuCo I help with and he was telling about how many kids are coming back for their 3rd year of JuCo because they can’t find a 4 year school that needs any more players. This is basic economics - the supply of good players far exceeds the demand for their services. Kids in the transfer portal have a rude awakening coming their way. Point being, if you are a ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23 and you want to play college baseball, you better have an open mind, get realistic, and think outside the box. A lot of people that stay on the “conventional path” will come away with nothing. JMO but signs are everywhere.
Great points. I hope parents will read that and really pay attention and stop thinking their beautiful snowflake is the “exception that proves the rule”
We are in a very strange crossroads right now of helicopter parenting meeting the harsh realities of a pandemic’s effect on College Baseball, and it ain’t pretty.
More so than ever, go to a school where you have a reasonable chance to actually get on the field. And even more importantly: go to a school where you can get a great education, because you might not get on the field!!!
I thought after the NLI it was harder vs before the NLI...???
Pulling a NLI makes them still obligated for the funding, doesn't it? Not ideal, but you're somewhat protected in that regard but you still have to make the team or go to a team where you can play vs sit the bench or get cut..... sucks for the kid and family.....
@adbono posted:I know this has become a common theme in many of my posts - but I keep seeing it everywhere I go and I keep reading posts from others that indicate little to no comprehension of the current situation regarding recruiting, so...... I saw a crosstown rival HS game last night. One team has a stud ‘21 catcher that was an early commit to U of Houston. This week UofH pulled their offer (don’t know details on NLI) to give the scholarship money to a returning senior. We have heard this before but Stud catchers are rare and if it happened to this kid it could happen to anyone. Along the same lines, this morning I talked to the RC at the JuCo I help with and he was telling about how many kids are coming back for their 3rd year of JuCo because they can’t find a 4 year school that needs any more players. This is basic economics - the supply of good players far exceeds the demand for their services. Kids in the transfer portal have a rude awakening coming their way. Point being, if you are a ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23 and you want to play college baseball, you better have an open mind, get realistic, and think outside the box. A lot of people that stay on the “conventional path” will come away with nothing. JMO but signs are everywhere.
I thought once the NLI was signed it was "done" ?
Also, as a the parent of a 2022, this sucks. This sucks so hard.
@LousyLefty posted:I thought once the NLI was signed it was "done" ?
Also, as a the parent of a 2022, this sucks. This sucks so hard.
Schools renege on NLIs all the time - but even more since Covid and subsequent NCAA rulings. A contract is only good if both sides want it to continue. If a school wants out they almost always find a way. And yes, this does suck for all involved. But it’s not a news flash - and the ripple effect is playing out as many predicted it would. So make use of the information and change your game plan accordingly. That’s what I did.
An NLI guarantees that the school will carry forward their portion of the agreement for 4 years at Power 5 schools in terms of the scholarship agreement, and 1 year at non Power 5 schools.
There is no guarantee that a kid will be on the Baseball team. Coaches will routinely go to a player and say “we no longer have a spot on the roster for you, we don’t think you’ll ever play here, you should transfer.” 99.99999% of D1 players are going to transfer, they want to play Baseball.
Contractually, a kid could say “no thanks. I’ll just keep my 25% athletic scholarship and 50% academic scholarship you gave me, and just be a student here and not play Baseball.” It just almost never happens.
@LousyLefty posted:I thought once the NLI was signed it was "done" ?
Also, as a the parent of a 2022, this sucks. This sucks so hard.
You’ve got it easy, compared to many grad years. It’s tougher on the 2021’s and 2020’s. By the time a 2022 gets to a 4 year, the logjam will dissipate at least a little.
Try being a parent of a 2018. All that work and many of them lost half their college careers!
@adbono posted:I know this has become a common theme in many of my posts - but I keep seeing it everywhere I go and I keep reading posts from others that indicate little to no comprehension of the current situation regarding recruiting, so...... I saw a crosstown rival HS game last night. One team has a stud ‘21 catcher that was an early commit to U of Houston. This week UofH pulled their offer (don’t know details on NLI) to give the scholarship money to a returning senior. We have heard this before but Stud catchers are rare and if it happened to this kid it could happen to anyone. Along the same lines, this morning I talked to the RC at the JuCo I help with and he was telling about how many kids are coming back for their 3rd year of JuCo because they can’t find a 4 year school that needs any more players. This is basic economics - the supply of good players far exceeds the demand for their services. Kids in the transfer portal have a rude awakening coming their way. Point being, if you are a ‘21, ‘22, or ‘23 and you want to play college baseball, you better have an open mind, get realistic, and think outside the box. A lot of people that stay on the “conventional path” will come away with nothing. JMO but signs are everywhere.
supply of players has outpaced demand for years, now it is just compounded by several levels. IMO it is shit show but until supply side economics change the schools hold all the cards and will continue to take advantage of the players. this problem will take years to fix if it ever is fixed
Maybe install the Freshman teams. In my 1st year at Michigan State, 125 out for the Freshman team, 4 years later only 5 played on the MSU team in the College WS.
Our team [25 players] included 3 Football QB, 2 future MLB players, one Hockey player and 2 Korean War Vets. The majority of the team played in strong Summer College Leagues with Pro players on each team. This game teaches a player to learn, study and make adjustments.
"True Story"
Bob
@old_school posted:supply of players has outpaced demand for years, now it is just compounded by several levels. IMO it is shit show but until supply side economics change the schools hold all the cards and will continue to take advantage of the players. this problem will take years to fix if it ever is fixed
What *seems* clear to me is that the talent pool is simply going to migrate a level down. Meaning, there's going to be a lot of really good ballplayers at D2, D3 and Juco level for next few years. Personally, my son was a borderline HA D1/D3 player and he made a firm decision early last spring when it was clear that there wouldn't be much, if any, in person scouting that it was better to just be a big fish in the D3 pond. A year later, he's much more of a D1 candidate metrics wise, but he's happy and landed in a great school. I know of at least 5 other players from our school or section who fit this same description.
@Consultant posted:Maybe install the Freshman teams. In my 1st year at Michigan State, 125 out for the Freshman team, 4 years later only 5 played on the MSU team in the College WS.
Our team [25 players] included 3 Football QB, 2 future MLB players, one Hockey player and 2 Korean War Vets. The majority of the team played in strong Summer College Leagues with Pro players on each team. This game teaches a player to learn, study and make adjustments.
"True Story"
Bob
Operating Cost would increase, based on EADA proportionally $$$ would need to be allocated to women's sports.
Michigan State 2019 Operating Expenses
10 Year Baseball Budget
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@Wechson posted:What *seems* clear to me is that the talent pool is simply going to migrate a level down. Meaning, there's going to be a lot of really good ballplayers at D2, D3 and Juco level for next few years. Personally, my son was a borderline HA D1/D3 player and he made a firm decision early last spring when it was clear that there wouldn't be much, if any, in person scouting that it was better to just be a big fish in the D3 pond. A year later, he's much more of a D1 candidate metrics wise, but he's happy and landed in a great school. I know of at least 5 other players from our school or section who fit this same description.
You made a smart decision and, by doing so, gave your son a chance to have a good experience playing baseball in college. Seems to me that others should follow your lead instead of continuing to force the square peg into the round hole.
@Wechson posted:What *seems* clear to me is that the talent pool is simply going to migrate a level down. Meaning, there's going to be a lot of really good ballplayers at D2, D3 and Juco level for next few years. Personally, my son was a borderline HA D1/D3 player and he made a firm decision early last spring when it was clear that there wouldn't be much, if any, in person scouting that it was better to just be a big fish in the D3 pond. A year later, he's much more of a D1 candidate metrics wise, but he's happy and landed in a great school. I know of at least 5 other players from our school or section who fit this same description.
I agree but there are already 40 plus kids on most D3 rosters and they won’t get any better treatment. There are just way more talented players then jobs available
@adbono posted:You made a smart decision and, by doing so, gave your son a chance to have a good experience playing baseball in college. Seems to me that others should follow your lead instead of continuing to force the square peg into the round hole.
Thank you @adbono, I certainly had help and sage counsel along the way from you and many others on this forum! Was fortunate my son was level headed about everything and adaptable to a fluid and really unique situation. That's certainly life, and would recommend to those parents and players going through this now to simply be flexible and open to possibilities that may deviate from where you started in the process.
Ah yes, we must spend equal money....even if you need to beg them to get the same numbers.
The whole thing really does call into question what college baseball is for. Maybe club baseball will get bigger? I mean, what do kids actually want to do? Especially those going to D3? Play more baseball. If there were more organized options at large D1 schools, maybe more would choose that.
The point that Bob made about the number of Freshmen still on the team 4 years later was right on target and a good reason to select a school you’d be happy with without Being on the baseball team. An injury cut my Football and Track career short in college, and while I missed my sports I was happy that I got a good education, graduated from college and went on to have a successful life. Find a school that fits your skill level where you’ll have a chance to succeed and major in a subject where you can actually get a job.