2024s

Do you have anyone in your baseball orbit who can give you an professional, unbiased assessment of your son? Maybe a longtime HS or travel coach, a college coach, ex-pro, scout, etc.

Looking in the right place is key to not feeling left out.

@SpeedDemon posted:

Do you have anyone in your baseball orbit who can give you an professional, unbiased assessment of your son? Maybe a longtime HS or travel coach, a college coach, ex-pro, scout, etc.

Looking in the right place is key to not feeling left out.

Yes, gotten this from two independent sources and they both separately said mid major, but son is targeting all levels.

food for thought ... if you spend $99 on a PG Crosschecker Subscription, then you can see, sort and filter all the commitments to identify what schools appear to be early (aggressive) on the 2024's and what schools appear to be late (or "lurking") on the 2024's.  Also, your son can also use PG Crosschecker to access player data to benchmark his own measurables vs. the boys that have verbally committed to his target schools in his grad yr or from prior grad years.

I also have a 2024, and for several years, all sorts of people (adults) in the baseball industry have been projecting my son ... many of these opinions were biased in the pre-covid/pre-portal landscape (not terribly helpful).  I relied heavily on crosschecker data supplemented with "where are they now" google searches to help me identify/confirm good baseball fits for my son's objectively measured talents.

good luck to your son!

Can you provide the following:

Height, weight, primary position, 60 time, throwing velo?

2024’s are definitely being recruited right now and have been for a while. If he is truly at that level I’d consider finding a showcase for him. FWIW, this summer there were A TON of 2023 parents at tournaments who were told their kids were mid major level and spent the entire summer chasing that dream. August hit and they were left trying to figure things things out.

Trying to make sense of recruiting and why some kids are recruited and others aren’t can be frustrating. There are kids committed to schools my son was interested in that are head scratchers. I’m sure someone would pull up my son’s profile and wonder how he got some of the offers he did.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Can you provide the following:

Height, weight, primary position, 60 time, throwing velo?

2024’s are definitely being recruited right now and have been for a while. If he is truly at that level I’d consider finding a showcase for him. FWIW, this summer there were A TON of 2023 parents at tournaments who were told their kids were mid major level and spent the entire summer chasing that dream. August hit and they were left trying to figure things things out.

Trying to make sense of recruiting and why some kids are recruited and others aren’t can be frustrating. There are kids committed to schools my son was interested in that are head scratchers. I’m sure someone would pull up my son’s profile and wonder how he got some of the offers he did.

I'll DM you the info.

The recruiting process is a real grind for the vast majority.  Hang in there- a lot of runway left.  How about sending out emails/tape to schools one level down from your projected level?  If you get some dialog, etc it may be a boost in morale.  If the landscape remains tough, you will already have some groundwork to revisit down the line.  One common mistake we saw for 2022 and 2023 in our circles were that families ran their plan A exclusively and were late to pivot.  Best case scenario is that your son calls these coaches later on to let them know he got his spot in a mid major and they will be happy for him.

@Momball11 posted:

Yes, gotten this from two independent sources and they both separately said mid major, but son is targeting all levels.

Good advice already by the other posters.

"All levels" may be the issue. He's still got time but by summer / fall of next year he needs to know the "right level".

The advice about using PG Crosschecker was spot on. You can flat out see who is committed where and their measurables.

See where he fits in and head in that direction.

Posting the info on here rather than DM will get you more replies.  Without this info no real place to start to help.  I would say almost all the power fives are finishing up their 2024s and the mid-majors are 3/4 of the way done with their 2024 classes.  So the runway for D1 is getting short.  

@BBSBfan posted:

The recruiting process is a real grind for the vast majority.  Hang in there- a lot of runway left.  How about sending out emails/tape to schools one level down from your projected level?  If you get some dialog, etc it may be a boost in morale.  If the landscape remains tough, you will already have some groundwork to revisit down the line.  One common mistake we saw for 2022 and 2023 in our circles were that families ran their plan A exclusively and were late to pivot.  Best case scenario is that your son calls these coaches later on to let them know he got his spot in a mid major and they will be happy for him.

He does email/send video to a variety of levels, including the level below what he's projected at. D3 coach has already talked with him. He would go to their camp, but unfortunately it's when we will be unavailable to take him. (It's 5+ hours away, and he's not quite ready to do a solo trip that far away as he's only had his license for about 6 months). I think if he were able to go, he'd probably get an offer.

We're definitely running multiple strategies as best as possible because like you said we don't want to run a plan A exclusively and be too late in pivoting.

@PitchingFan posted:

Posting the info on here rather than DM will get you more replies.  Without this info no real place to start to help.  I would say almost all the power fives are finishing up their 2024s and the mid-majors are 3/4 of the way done with their 2024 classes.  So the runway for D1 is getting short.  

I've gotten a lot of DM replies to this post. Seems like many are in the same boat. My son has been evaluated and recommended by separate individuals and they both recommend mid-major would be a good fit, but he's also considering D2 and D3. He's on the 40 year plan, so there's more focus on the school being a good fit, not necessarily for baseball. We've been tracking 2024 commitments to the D1 mid-major schools he's interested in on perfect game/PBR. Here are the number of current commits those D1 mid-major schools have:

5, 7, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 2, 2, 5, 6

Those don't seem like 3/4 of the way done to me? Maybe because I'm further north than you?

Yes.  If you look at the mid majors in the south they are filling up fast.  Local definitely affects recruiting.  Good luck.

With the 40 year plan in mind, I would reach out to a few more really good D3’s (or D2 or JUCO- depending on your preference).  This allows you to hone in on most of variables that important to your family in a school match.  

FYI, I am not sure a D3 can offer much right now- may depend on conference.  Some conferences have rules about pre-read start periods as for D3 you must gain an admissions nod to the school before getting a “coach support” committment.  Regardless, we found speaking to coaches and meeting in person really helped frame the process better so it’s worthwhile.

One point about commitments - It can be misleading as if the conference is committing, you can bank each school has a board and may be close with a bunch given the competitive nature.  So, saying a school has 0 or 2 or 6 can be misleading given what is going on that is not published.  

if you give a couple of conferences, I think you will get good intel/feedback for those.

@BBSBfan posted:

With the 40 year plan in mind, I would reach out to a few more really good D3’s (or D2 or JUCO- depending on your preference) while in a lull.  This allows you to hone in on most of variables that important to your family in a school match.  

FYI, I am not sure a D3 can offer much right now- may depend on conference.  Some conferences have rules about pre-read start periods as for D3 you must gain an admissions nod to the school before getting a “coach support” committment.  Regardless, we found speaking to coaches and meeting in person really helped frame the process better so it’s worthwhile.

He's got about 10 D2's he's reached out to already. Would you say he should add more? He's got 3 D3's (we've looked for more, but they are either too far away or out of our price range). He's got a good unweighted GPA (3.8+). The one D3 that's communicating with him...he shouldn't have any issue getting into. Juco's....we don't have many near us, but he's contemplating adding some that are close to where my siblings live.

@BBSBfan posted:

One point about commitments - It can be misleading as if the conference is committing, you can bank each school has a board and may be close with a bunch given the competitive nature.  So, saying a school has 0 or 2 or 6 can be misleading given what is going on that is not published.  

if you give a couple of conferences, I think you will get good intel/feedback for those.

MAC, Sun Belt, Big South, Colonial, Horizon, Ohio Valley, MEAC are the conferences with schools he's looking at.

I would add a few more D3’s.  Do not worry about cost yet.   Yes it is the biggest issue for almost all but you just don’t want to limit in the outreach phase.  I know nothing about your situation but I know D3 kids who got more stacked aid (merit, FA, etc) than D1.  I know a few D1 ish kids who got crazy good offers at D3’s where the kid was to be their star recruit and school worked up great numbers.  These could be exceptions but just don’t limit yet- try to get more 2 way dialog going at any level IMO.

@BBSBfan posted:

I would add a few more D3’s.  Do not worry about cost yet.   Yes it is the biggest issue for almost all but you just don’t want to limit in the outreach phase.  I know nothing about your situation but I know D3 kids who got more stacked aid (merit, FA, etc) than D1.  I know a few D1 ish kids who got crazy good offers at D3’s where the kid was to be their star recruit and school worked up great numbers.  These could be exceptions but just don’t limit yet- try to get more 2 way dialog going at any level IMO.

Okay, we'll try to find a few more, but they tend to have fewer options of programs that my son would be interested in studying or they're too far from home.

Has your son done a PBR or PG showcase? Getting verifiable metrics out there is important.

My 2024 just recently did a PBR one & the wheels are slowly starting to turn with twitter follows & camp invites. We'd been holding off on doing one until his numbers would be good enough for people to notice. He made all the event leaderboards, so perhaps waited a bit too long.

@947 posted:

Has your son done a PBR or PG showcase? Getting verifiable metrics out there is important.

My 2024 just recently did a PBR one & the wheels are slowly starting to turn with twitter follows & camp invites. We'd been holding off on doing one until his numbers would be good enough for people to notice. He made all the event leaderboards, so perhaps waited a bit too long.

No, he has not. I may sign him up for a PBR one, but my gut tells me it won't make much of a difference.

@BBSBfan posted:

One point about commitments - It can be misleading as if the conference is committing, you can bank each school has a board and may be close with a bunch given the competitive nature.  So, saying a school has 0 or 2 or 6 can be misleading given what is going on that is not published.  

if you give a couple of conferences, I think you will get good intel/feedback for those.

This is a good point.  PG makes it clear they only post commitments they are aware of.  I've seen some schools who don't look very active based on PG, but in reality are filling it up.

@Momball11 posted:

No, he has not. I may sign him up for a PBR one, but my gut tells me it won't make much of a difference.

In general the PBR showcases are a lot cheaper than the PG showcases. But also depends on your region because they are a bit independent. Every situation is different, in my son's case (2022) the school he's at initially made contact after a PBR showcase. BUT, that was during covid when coaches were just watching live streams for a lot. IMO PBR at least for us (Northeast) was the best bang for the buck, outside of targeted college camps.

The other thing is that D3s (and maybe D2s) don't really get going until they feel that D1s are basically done, because their top recruits are the kids who didn't get D1 offers.  Before covid, that started the summer before senior year.  If D1s are now taking fewer HS kids, or finishing up earlier, then maybe the D3 (and D2?) action will start earlier.

D3s, with no roster limits, can recruit all through senior year (although the ones that offer help with admissions usually want recruits to apply Early Decision), so it's quite early for 2024s.

The earliest D3 I saw a 2023 commit this summer was May. There were still a ton of 2022 kids committing in May and June. You’ll probably see another big batch of 2023’s committed in mid-December as the first round of decisions comes back.

@Momball11 posted:

I've gotten a lot of DM replies to this post. Seems like many are in the same boat. My son has been evaluated and recommended by separate individuals and they both recommend mid-major would be a good fit, but he's also considering D2 and D3. He's on the 40 year plan, so there's more focus on the school being a good fit, not necessarily for baseball. We've been tracking 2024 commitments to the D1 mid-major schools he's interested in on perfect game/PBR. Here are the number of current commits those D1 mid-major schools have:

5, 7, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 2, 2, 5, 6

Those don't seem like 3/4 of the way done to me? Maybe because I'm further north than you?

I don't agree on the 3/4 done by now either.  Mid-majors down south might recruit earlier, but further north, they don't go into full recruiting mode until spring/summer of their junior year so not until this spring for you.  He could still potentially be mid-major material.  My son didn't commit to his mid-major until summer after his junior year.  Keep doing what you are doing, take some of this advice, and don't panic yet. 

There are some schools that have gone from 6-10 freshman a year to 2-4 since the portal has opened up. They are now taking 5-10 grad transfers plus some JUCO kids.

@Momball11 posted:

I've gotten a lot of DM replies to this post. Seems like many are in the same boat. My son has been evaluated and recommended by separate individuals and they both recommend mid-major would be a good fit, but he's also considering D2 and D3. He's on the 40 year plan, so there's more focus on the school being a good fit, not necessarily for baseball. We've been tracking 2024 commitments to the D1 mid-major schools he's interested in on perfect game/PBR. Here are the number of current commits those D1 mid-major schools have:

5, 7, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 2, 2, 5, 6

Those don't seem like 3/4 of the way done to me? Maybe because I'm further north than you?

For the schools on your target list, how many transfer students do they normally recruit. I would recommend that you look at their fall rosters (if available) to review their recruiting classes.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

For the schools on your target list, how many transfer students do they normally recruit. I would recommend that you look at their fall rosters (if available) to review their recruiting classes.

Will do. Three of those schools have new coaches, so it's hard to say what's normal.

@Momball11 posted:

Will do. Three of those schools have new coaches, so it's hard to say what's normal.

IMHO, it will be based on timing of when the coaching change was communicated

Check here for the press release (or rumors)

https://collegebaseballinsight...l-coaching-carousel/

Here is a potential approach:

Most likely players were already in the portal

CBI Team Roster Turnover Dashboard (free version) provides a simple view of changes.

As of today we've published 211 out of the 305 D1 Fall rosters.

They will be published as 2023s

Of the 211, 20 are partial. (normally will not include incoming players)

You will be able to quickly understand the schools roster management approach.

Good luck

@nycdad posted:

In general the PBR showcases are a lot cheaper than the PG showcases. But also depends on your region because they are a bit independent. Every situation is different, in my son's case (2022) the school he's at initially made contact after a PBR showcase. BUT, that was during covid when coaches were just watching live streams for a lot. IMO PBR at least for us (Northeast) was the best bang for the buck, outside of targeted college camps.

With his high unweighted GPA, the academic showcases might product strong results.  Showball and Headfirst always have a large number and variety of schools attending.  I would recommend one PG or PBR camp to get his accurate measurables out there on record and then one of the two academic camps to get visibility with more head coaches. 

There are also some solid regional showcases. My son did the Mid-Atlantic Top 100 this year. There were a ton of coaches from that region in attendance. They ranged from D3's I've never heard of to D1. I'm sure there are similar showcases in your area.

One thing to keep in mind, don't go to a showcase until you are ready to show. Make sure he is working on the things he needs to get better at before spending the money. I see a lot of 2024's chasing college camps right now and they should be in the gym or with a speed trainer. You only have a limited number of days to train before the next HS season starts. Every camp or showcase is 3-4 days they are not getting bigger/faster/stronger.

Bp,

define speed trainer. Can the trainer teach reaction time for a infielder or pitcher to field a batted ball off a metal bat at 100 mph?

Bob

A coach that trains an athlete in speed and agility. No, but he can hopefully get his 60 time down for a showcase.

Now that I think of it, the guy my son works with did implement some reaction type drills with his training. I think he calls it synaptic or something like that. I think it is more decision making than reacting though. They had a bunch of MLB guys doing it before spring training started.

@Consultant posted:

Bp,

define speed trainer. Can the trainer teach reaction time for a infielder or pitcher to field a batted ball off a metal bat at 100 mph?

Bob

My son had training specific to running the sixty. It got him from 6.7 to 6.5. Getting below 6.6 draws increased attention. It didn’t make him a better base runner. He already had great instincts and quickness. He studied pitcher’s moves from the dugout. But, it likely aided in drawing scouting attention at tournaments and showcases.

That is great time. When he had his lead off at 1b was his right toe pointing to 2b or the pitcher.
Bob

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 20, 2022, at 7:45 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@crowdstack.com> wrote:
>
> 

@947 posted:

Has your son done a PBR or PG showcase? Getting verifiable metrics out there is important.

My 2024 just recently did a PBR one & the wheels are slowly starting to turn with twitter follows & camp invites. We'd been holding off on doing one until his numbers would be good enough for people to notice. He made all the event leaderboards, so perhaps waited a bit too long.

For a long time I thought that the PG info was just a waste of time and pointless.  However, my son had a D1 pitching coach within the last two weeks tell him that they reviewed all of his pitching stats and performances on Perfect Game website for the fall and summer.   I guess there was more value in that information that I first thought.

@Ster posted:

For a long time I thought that the PG info was just a waste of time and pointless.  However, my son had a D1 pitching coach within the last two weeks tell him that they reviewed all of his pitching stats and performances on Perfect Game website for the fall and summer.   I guess there was more value in that information that I first thought.

I agree! For primary position = pitcher, PG in game pitching stats are very important. Were very important for my son’s recruiting journey.

@Ster posted:

For a long time I thought that the PG info was just a waste of time and pointless.  However, my son had a D1 pitching coach within the last two weeks tell him that they reviewed all of his pitching stats and performances on Perfect Game website for the fall and summer.   I guess there was more value in that information that I first thought.

Was this a coach already recruiting him or a new coach that reached out?

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

Was this a coach already recruiting him or a new coach that reached out?

That is a good question.   This was a low D1 school that started to develop interest.   He had sent multiple Emails to their staff, and his travel organization coach reached out to them.  He signed up to go to their prospect camp and after that, the pitching coach started contacting him directly with text messages and phone calls.   In their first phone conversation the week after the prospect camp, the coach told him that they looked through all of his perfect game pitching statistics.   So, to answer your question.  I don't think that they found him by looking at Perfect Game home page, but once they developed interest they investigated his Perfect Game profile and home page and it led to their interesting getting higher.   I hope that makes sense.

@Ster posted:

That is a good question.   This was a low D1 school that started to develop interest.   He had sent multiple Emails to their staff, and his travel organization coach reached out to them.  He signed up to go to their prospect camp and after that, the pitching coach started contacting him directly with text messages and phone calls.   In their first phone conversation the week after the prospect camp, the coach told him that they looked through all of his perfect game pitching statistics.   So, to answer your question.  I don't think that they found him by looking at Perfect Game home page, but once they developed interest they investigated his Perfect Game profile and home page and it led to their interesting getting higher.   I hope that makes sense.

IMHO, it seems that your son and family are following the process

College Baseball Recruiting Process

Training & Development

Play HS & Travel

Research Target Schools

Create relationship with coaches

Attend Camps/Showcases

Take Unofficial/Official Visit

Receive written offers

Letter of Intent,Commit

Good luck

CBI

great list. Maybe you add.
1. Develop a friendship with a pro scout and listen carefully

2. Watch the College Coach his team and interview his players and their parents.
Bob

@Consultant posted:

CBI

great list. Maybe you add.
1. Develop a friendship with a pro scout and listen carefully

2. Watch the College Coach his team and interview his players and their parents.
Bob

#2 is important. I thought of this the other day when the thread about coach personalities changing from recruit to player. On my son’s visits we got to see how coaches responded when a kid wasn’t doing a drill right in practice, when a kid didn’t get a bunt down in the scrimmage, and talk to a handful of parents about their experiences. It was interesting comparing notes with my son from our experience outside the fence to his inside the fence. A lot of the issues being posted lately can easily be discovered through this process.

Feel free to DM me.  My son played in the MAC and is from NW Ohio.  We had great results with attending PBR events.   I guess here's my question and I apologize if I missed it.....what did he do last summer?  Travel ball?  What level?  What events?   Ultimately based on the leagues you mentioned that you were targeting the coaches he is trying to contact would be a lot easier to be in front of if he was playing in some of the better events here in the Midwest.   My son ultimately accepted an offer from a school 45 minutes away from home....the coach said he had seen him in 2 different weekend tournaments and we had never even seen the coach there.....even though in most cases, at least at the level of events were were at, a lot of the coaches were wearing their school gear.

I sat in the stands with parents supporting the team my son might be interested. I asked three questions ...

1) How did your son chose this school? 2) What were his other options? 3) Does he like it here?

Most parents love to talk about their kids. Typically, you will get a lot more information than you asked for with these questions.

It is interesting doing that podcast with my son.  We interview UT baseball players and ask pretty much the same questions each week.  Each of their recruiting stories is different.  The most unique part for me that I would not have guessed is after interviewing 11 players we are 9 players who grew up NOT UT fans and only 2 so far that grew up UT fans.  But now they are sold now.  I wish someone at every school would do a podcast like we are doing because it would greatly help the recruiting process for you to be able to listen to players and parents talk about the coaches, process, and experiences.  If you are interested in the changes from HS to college in P5, take a listen to the podcast Stache Talk.  We are not making any money off of it, YET, probably never but it is fun and a great experience for son and his teammates.  Dad enjoys doing it too.

@RJM posted:

I sat in the stands with parents supporting the team my son might be interested. I asked three questions ...

1) How did your son chose this school? 2) What were his other options? 3) Does he like it here?

Most parents love to talk about their kids. Typically, you will get a lot more information than you asked for with these questions.

These are the questions we asked as well. It was interesting when they finally started to share their gripes. Some were just kids not as good as the parents thought and others were legitimate red flags.

I realize I am late here to the OP question(s). Walter Beede tweeted out an excellent review of the current recruiting landscape this week, I suggest taking a look. I don't know him from Adam but it dovetails exactly w what I am seeing with the three D1 players from my son's '22 HS class (my son included). I agree tracking/viewing PG commits in your school list is helpful but clearly does not represent the whole story. My experience with the '22 group is that they saw 5-10 transfers in addition to the HS recruits listed in PG and Twitter for their recruiting class. '23 class seems to be even less HS recruits with nearly half the incoming classes being transfers. Interestingly, it's important to look at grad school offerings at the school of interest as those offerings will drive transfer traffic -- easier/more offerings the bigger net the school will wield in the portal. The reality is that the transfers (mostly 5th yrs) have a resume of success and are 4-5 yrs older than incoming freshman so its natural that coaches look there first. Mid-majors are the biggest winners here IMO given P5 drop downs focus there before moving to D2, etc. Some of this pressure will go away when covid extra eligibility runs its course but a lot will remain as P5 drop downs will continue to populate mid-major rosters IMO. I know the large software/recruiting services used by colleges have re-tooled to reflect the new recruiting process which reflects the demand from coaches. Not ideal for HS recruits. It's a new world.

@GIANTS_FAN posted:

I realize I am late here to the OP question(s). Walter Beede tweeted out an excellent review of the current recruiting landscape this week, I suggest taking a look. I don't know him from Adam but it dovetails exactly w what I am seeing with the three D1 players from my son's '22 HS class (my son included). I agree tracking/viewing PG commits in your school list is helpful but clearly does not represent the whole story. My experience with the '22 group is that they saw 5-10 transfers in addition to the HS recruits listed in PG and Twitter for their recruiting class. '23 class seems to be even less HS recruits with nearly half the incoming classes being transfers. Interestingly, it's important to look at grad school offerings at the school of interest as those offerings will drive transfer traffic -- easier/more offerings the bigger net the school will wield in the portal. The reality is that the transfers (mostly 5th yrs) have a resume of success and are 4-5 yrs older than incoming freshman so its natural that coaches look there first. Mid-majors are the biggest winners here IMO given P5 drop downs focus there before moving to D2, etc. Some of this pressure will go away when covid extra eligibility runs its course but a lot will remain as P5 drop downs will continue to populate mid-major rosters IMO. I know the large software/recruiting services used by colleges have re-tooled to reflect the new recruiting process which reflects the demand from coaches. Not ideal for HS recruits. It's a new world.

I too read Walter's thoughts the other day. When reviewing commitments I also noticed what you mentioned with the '22 and '23 classes. I was just saying in a PM the other day that mid majors have definitely had a timeline shift in recruiting because of the transfer portal and the covid jam probably more so than other levels. It's definitely made colleges prioritize taking players that are ready now. The frustration as a high school player parent is the lack of opportunity for my son to demonstrate his level of readiness with other college players. He was fortunate to play with a fall team who played games against college teams and he put up some great stats. It really proved to me he could play at the next level. I'm sure someone would argue his stats wouldn't be as good if he had a longer season. How many plate appearances against college arms does one need before you'd be convinced of their hitting ability at the college level? I've read that some college leagues allow committed HS players to play the summer after they graduate and I've read that some do not. Could a not yet graduated HS kid play in a league with college players? If there's such an opportunity I'd love to hear about it.

@GIANTS_FAN posted:

I realize I am late here to the OP question(s). Walter Beede tweeted out an excellent review of the current recruiting landscape this week, I suggest taking a look. I don't know him from Adam but it dovetails exactly w what I am seeing with the three D1 players from my son's '22 HS class (my son included). I agree tracking/viewing PG commits in your school list is helpful but clearly does not represent the whole story. My experience with the '22 group is that they saw 5-10 transfers in addition to the HS recruits listed in PG and Twitter for their recruiting class. '23 class seems to be even less HS recruits with nearly half the incoming classes being transfers. Interestingly, it's important to look at grad school offerings at the school of interest as those offerings will drive transfer traffic -- easier/more offerings the bigger net the school will wield in the portal. The reality is that the transfers (mostly 5th yrs) have a resume of success and are 4-5 yrs older than incoming freshman so its natural that coaches look there first. Mid-majors are the biggest winners here IMO given P5 drop downs focus there before moving to D2, etc. Some of this pressure will go away when covid extra eligibility runs its course but a lot will remain as P5 drop downs will continue to populate mid-major rosters IMO. I know the large software/recruiting services used by colleges have re-tooled to reflect the new recruiting process which reflects the demand from coaches. Not ideal for HS recruits. It's a new world.

We've been collaborating with Mr. Beede on what was projected to happen this fall.

Upon publishing the 2022 fall rosters (shown as 2023), roster  management decisions are case by case.

St. Louis

Florida State - mostly freshman

Note, insights are based on what is actually communicated by schools, vs transfer portal and showcase db (PG, PBR, etc)

That twitter thread is here:

https://twitter.com/baseballif.../1584862372128243712

@Momball11 posted:

He was fortunate to play with a fall team who played games against college teams and he put up some great stats. It really proved to me he could play at the next level. I'm sure someone would argue his stats wouldn't be as good if he had a longer season.

I've never, ever heard a coach or scout ask about stats.  One of my son's HS teammates played in the CWS last year.  He was offered after going 0-4 with 3 punchouts at the NPI at Lakepoint.  The best feedback my son received last summer was after, in his eyes, an awful outing.

Be careful putting too much weight in "stats" when it comes to high school recruiting and development.

Stats are not reliable because everyone is inconsistent.  I judge hits and errors that benefit pitchers because I think balls should be caught.  Can’t stand when they say it was a hit because it was hit hard.  In D1 baseball or professionals, I don’t care if it was launched out of a cannon, if it hit your glove it should be caught.  Others say it required above average effort so it was a hit.  

The coaches my son talked with didn't seem to care about stats. The only stat that caught their attention was 1 BB in 19+ innings. They all knew how hard he throws and have seen his movement. They even saw him have great control in showcases. The summer stats showed them he can sustain the control in a game. They didn't care about K's, H's, or ERA.

@Master P posted:

I've never, ever heard a coach or scout ask about stats.  One of my son's HS teammates played in the CWS last year.  He was offered after going 0-4 with 3 punchouts at the NPI at Lakepoint.  The best feedback my son received last summer was after, in his eyes, an awful outing.

Be careful putting too much weight in "stats" when it comes to high school recruiting and development.

Yeah, I try not to put too much value on the stats because I know it would all depend on the level of competition he was facing. I've also seen where book keepers are generous to some individuals. But it's also a means of quantifying ones performance.

In this situation he was facing college programs (Juco/D2). I guess maybe some might view that level not good enough? I've seen plenty of posts about not having eyes for D1 only because pitching is just at good at D2/D3/Juco. Maybe one could argue the stats were in favor of the hitter and were marked as hits when they should have been reach on an error? That's why I take video and have it posted for coaches to view if they so choose. The way my son hits it's pretty obvious it's a hit or not though. I was trying to find video of some close calls to get a home to first time...but he didn't have any. He just hits the gaps. We saw a social media posting from a pitcher about his number of strike outs at a game. It was all a lie. For that game, my husband was keeping the book and he thought he had screwed up. Pulled up the video and watched it...not a single strike out. Now we know that the kid is dishonest and his parents support his dishonesty because they "liked" it and were retweeting it. It's a shame that's what people are doing these days.

@anotherparent posted:

That twitter thread is here:

https://twitter.com/baseballif.../1584862372128243712

After the 2022 draft, we did a study of the mlb draft.  Here is the results that we posted on twitter in August.  

This got the buzz of many.

Note, the goal is to look back at 2019 through 2021 to show the trend but had to delay until other more pressing projects are completed.

BaseballInsights;

Outstanding analysis!!! It is obvious that the strong College programs have "filled" the role of the lower minor leagues. The draft # for Division 1 are consistent for Rounds 1-20.

The # of Free Agents, maybe 4th and 5th year Seniors?

*if I am a ML organization, I would send my scouts to Division 1 games and my Associate Scouts to the select JC games and tournaments.

Scout "gossip" will direct Area Scouts to Division 2 and HS games.

Special Summer Wood bat Leagues will now become a stronger venue for the pro scout. Their cars will log 80,000 miles this year.

Bob

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

After the 2022 draft, we did a study of the mlb draft.  Here is the results that we posted on twitter in August.  

This got the buzz of many.

Note, the goal is to look back at 2019 through 2021 to show the trend but had to delay until other more pressing projects are completed.

These are great. It would be interesting to see it further broken down into position players and pitchers.

Here is a link to how how stakeholders should look at the college baseball transfer process.

KISS Method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZDVxTUUup0

@Momball11 posted:

These are great. It would be interesting to see it further broken down into position players and pitchers.

From a CBI  cost/benefit perspective,  is not feasible.

We provide an overview, then you can look at the specific target schools

@Momball11 posted:

These are great. It would be interesting to see it further broken down into position players and pitchers.

You can DIY ... I did it for LHP/RHP drafted 2019-2022.
A little spreadsheet magic ... and a few too many beers while ESPN+ is playing on the other screen.

The Division/JUCO segmentation requires an additional lookup table (that I did not have or care to build).

https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2022/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2021/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2020/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2019/all/

IMO, regardless of level of play, parents need to be "quietly obsessed" off the field & behind the scenes to help your player manage expectations and to avoid wasting precious time during the college recruiting process.

Finding the "right fit" for both the 4 AND 40 is a dynamic mashup of needle in the haystack and chutes and ladders.  It is quite difficult to support "keep the dream alive" and also be practical about the education that best enables the next five decades.

@mjd-dad posted:

You can DIY ... I did it for LHP/RHP drafted 2019-2022.
A little spreadsheet magic ... and a few too many beers while ESPN+ is playing on the other screen.

The Division/JUCO segmentation requires an additional lookup table (that I did not have or care to build).

https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2022/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2021/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2020/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2019/all/

IMO, regardless of level of play, parents need to be "quietly obsessed" off the field & behind the scenes to help your player manage expectations and to avoid wasting precious time during the college recruiting process.

Finding the "right fit" for both the 4 AND 40 is a dynamic mashup of needle in the haystack and chutes and ladders.  It is quite difficult to support "keep the dream alive" and also be practical about the education that best enables the next five decades.

Actually, I started working on a spreadsheet this afternoon to figure it out. Not sure I'll go back that many years though. That's dedication. Maybe I should look into a csv file of the data. It would be a time saver.

@Momball11 posted:

Actually, I started working on a spreadsheet this afternoon to figure it out. Not sure I'll go back that many years though. That's dedication. Maybe I should look into a csv file of the data. It would be a time saver.

I am happy to share my Excel file with the RHP/LHP draft data ... just send me a direct message
... and, if you have not yet, do make a donation to http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/donate.htm

@mjd-dad posted:

You can DIY ... I did it for LHP/RHP drafted 2019-2022.
A little spreadsheet magic ... and a few too many beers while ESPN+ is playing on the other screen.

The Division/JUCO segmentation requires an additional lookup table (that I did not have or care to build).

https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2022/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2021/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2020/all/
https://www.mlb.com/draft/tracker/2019/all/

IMO, regardless of level of play, parents need to be "quietly obsessed" off the field & behind the scenes to help your player manage expectations and to avoid wasting precious time during the college recruiting process.

Finding the "right fit" for both the 4 AND 40 is a dynamic mashup of needle in the haystack and chutes and ladders.  It is quite difficult to support "keep the dream alive" and also be practical about the education that best enables the next five decades.

If you look a little deeper at the JUCO Infograph, the draft ticker shows the school you are drafted from, it doesn't show players who might have started their career a JUCO.

Finding the "right fit" for both the 4 AND 40 is a dynamic mashup of needle in the haystack and chutes and ladders.  It is quite difficult to support "keep the dream alive" and also be practical about the education that best enables the next five decades.  mjd-dad

I think I will make this into a poster for the office - hang it right next to the teamwork one.  The combination of needles in a haystack followed by chutes and ladders was pure poetry.

All these charts, graphs, files won't help unless your son is looking in the right place.

If it's a P5 check the 2024 commitments on PG. Mostly full with the 2024 top prospects in their region or beyond.

Perhaps your son needs to reevaluate the the process and target new programs, perhaps, mid D1, D2, Juco.

If he isn't getting the right exposure through his travel team, maybe that needs to be reevaluated as well.

JMO

I told my sons it is 4 vs 30...the goal is to retire at 55!!

In that thread that was posted yesterday I thought there was a pretty good quote (maybe from someone here?). Something along the lines of "maybe now you need to think about the next 2 years....then the next 40 after that" Not the exact quote.

@TPM posted:

All these charts, graphs, files won't help unless your son is looking in the right place.

If it's a P5 check the 2024 commitments on PG. Mostly full with the 2024 top prospects in their region or beyond.

Perhaps your son needs to reevaluate the the process and target new programs, perhaps, mid D1, D2, Juco.

If he isn't getting the right exposure through his travel team, maybe that needs to be reevaluated as well.

JMO

Here is the simple answer, how do you determine the right place?

"Finding the right place is a very easy catch phrase to say until it has to be implemented"

You can spend 7.5k to 10k per year or 50k, just to find that you don't know what you don't know.

One component to find the right place is determined by research and investigation.

Note, you can go to the school website to understand what they are may be looking, but will you understand.

As for travel team, what is the right travel team, the travel ball circuit has been water down, and you are dealing with the FOMO effect.

Here is the other little secret, although some thinks have change (not that much), the travel ball model tends to eliminate those with limited resources ($$$).  That is the elephant in the room, that many tend to gloss over.

Note, with respect to PG, it is a $$$ maker, how many teams are at Georgia annually?

Secondly, P5 have changed their recruiting strategy, so from a PG perspective and trying to get to a P5, in the future (P3) due to CFP, you are already have blinders of what is about to happen.

Charts and graph are visual representation of what has occurred and what will potentially occur.

It is becoming more informed about the process.

In 4 years of HS baseball I've never seen a good player not play because they couldn't afford it. I've seen some average player families make a decision to give up travel ball, but never a player that I'd consider a college prospect. I've also seen a ton of families of average to above average players incur a ton of credit debt to chase the dream. There are always teams willing to let a difference making player play for free.

@TPM posted:

All these charts, graphs, files won't help unless your son is looking in the right place.

If it's a P5 check the 2024 commitments on PG. Mostly full with the 2024 top prospects in their region or beyond.

Perhaps your son needs to reevaluate the the process and target new programs, perhaps, mid D1, D2, Juco.

If he isn't getting the right exposure through his travel team, maybe that needs to be reevaluated as well.

JMO

Question, what does a PG commitment mean?  Is it binding?  Who updates the information?   Does it guarantee you a spot on the spring roster?

It seems the blinders are "transfer portal and Juco transfers"

Should high school student athletes know if a school is getting heavy going after transfer portal guys?  How does NIL impact transfers?  JUCO pipelines are very strong, does PG provide that view?

Remember there are 4 sources of players

4 yr Transfers

2 yr Transfers

Post Grads (increasing footprint)

High School.

So unless the High School Athlete has the physical maturity, they may be for a rude awakening.

So again, spending 7.5k to 10k+ is something many parents are weighing, but again FOMO.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

In 4 years of HS baseball I've never seen a good player not play because they couldn't afford it. I've seen some average player families make a decision to give up travel ball, but never a player that I'd consider a college prospect. I've also seen a ton of families of average to above average players incur a ton of credit debt to chase the dream. There are always teams willing to let a difference making player play for free.

So here is the interesting thing, is it free or do they have 8u to 13u teams to absorb the cost a couple of players.

Who defines average?

Remember, the exponential growth of travel baseball is about many players being average, but they are required in order to feed the beast.

Again, how many teams go to Georgia Annually, north of 350?

Let's multiply by 20 players per team, 7k players,

PG is mostly about the pitcher (pied piper effect) vs position players.

Here is a simple number by 2027, youth sports will be a 77 billion dollar industry. Probably more now.

Sometimes I feel like we're the only sane family when it comes to what we're willing to invest in baseball. Either the other families involved with baseball are better off financially or they're making sacrifices to sustain the cost of baseball. I love my son, but I've got two girls who are also athletes, so as a parent we want them to feel that their sport is just as important. I also always tell them I'm not sacrificing my retirement because in the end I don't think they're going to want to have to support me when I'm an old fart. I also scare them by reminding them that more than likely based on family history...I'm going to be around for a very long time. Lol!

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

So here is the interesting thing, is it free or do they have 8u to 13u teams to absorb the cost a couple of players.

Who defines average?

Remember, the exponential growth of travel baseball is about many players being average, but they are required in order to feed the beast.

Again, how many teams go to Georgia Annually, north of 350?

Let's multiply by 20 players per team, 7k players,

PG is mostly about the pitcher (pied piper effect) vs position players.

Here is a simple number by 2027, youth sports will be a 77 billion dollar industry. Probably more now.

You said Here is the other little secret, although some thinks have change (not that much), the travel ball model tends to eliminate those with limited resources ($$$).  That is the elephant in the room, that many tend to gloss over.

What does any of your last post have to do with this. You implied low income families are being pushed out. My point is that if you are good enough there is always someone willing to pick up the tab. Heck, I know some “owners” who actually pay kids to play. Some teams cover the cost by charging others more, some are just wealthy and want the best team they can buy.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

You said Here is the other little secret, although some thinks have change (not that much), the travel ball model tends to eliminate those with limited resources ($$$).  That is the elephant in the room, that many tend to gloss over.

What does any of your last post have to do with this. You implied low income families are being pushed out. My point is that if you are good enough there is always someone willing to pick up the tab. Heck, I know some “owners” who actually pay kids to play. Some teams cover the cost by charging others more, some are just wealthy and want the best team they can buy.

You know some owners, but is that the majority. 

Let's keep it simple, travel baseball and the showcase circuit is a business.

Academies are a business that requires funding, who pays most of the cost, the owner or the consumer?

Are the consumer's parents of elite players or a combination of elite, average , etc.

Academy's normally have 2 business entities, profit and non-profit,  we can get into a particulars of this, but there is no reason.

The model is very simple to understand, it has not changed.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

You know some owners, but is that the majority.

Let's keep it simple, travel baseball and the showcase circuit is a business.

Academies are a business that requires funding, who pays most of the cost, the owner or the consumer?

Are the consumer's parents of elite players or a combination of elite, average , etc.

Academy's normally have 2 business entities, profit and non-profit,  we can get into a particulars of this, but there is no reason.

The model is very simple to understand, it has not changed.

I bet I can find more owners and academies willing to pick up the tab for a good player than you can find good players pushed out because they can't afford it.

The model is simple, you are just making up assumptions that have no way to be proven. I'm sure 20 years ago this was happening but it isn't today. There are tons of programs available for kids to keep playing. There is a relatively lower-income community in the next county over. They always had a scrappy travel team that was our rival and beat us most of the time. They all opted to play Legion ball for their summers because it was either very cheap or free. Those kids are still being recruited and a few of them were even scooped up by a couple national clubs to play in Jupiter this year. If the family of a good player today can't figure out a way for their kid to keep playing travel baseball they aren't trying very hard.

This sport can be very expensive and suck the money right out of you. It doesn't have to be though. Just in the past couple of days I've seen prime examples posted here of parents wasting their money on things that likely won't yield results.

I've said this before and I will say it again.  If you are spending more than $2,000 a year on baseball teams/coaches/lessons/equipment to try to get a college scholarship you are wasting your money.  If you are a top D1/P5 legit player, someone will let you play for free at the PG and PBR tournaments.  If you are not top D1/P5 legit player, you don't need to go to those places.  If you are wanting to play D2/D3/NAIA/Juco then you don't need to go to the expensive tournaments/showcases to get there.  Invest your money in TRYING to get bigger/faster/stronger and play locally where you can be seen by the D2/D3/NAIA/Juco teams.  Go to their camps/showcases and get in their ears.

I know I just opened myself up to a thrashing but after being in this recruiting game for 20 years as a baseball and a softball varsity HC, parent of 3 guys who went through it, friends with a multitude of baseball and softball HC's at all levels, doing lessons for 15 years, and watching 100's if not a 1,000 guys and their families go through it, this is my conclusion right or wrong and I can almost prove it 90% of the time it is right.

My son's 17u team had twenty-two players. When they had week long PG tournaments they picked up three to five pitchers free of charge.

Yes, pitchingfan is correct. When PG was just starting out they asked the top HS guys to attend showcases. It brought the scouts,  top college coaches, agents, not to mention everyone else.

Also note that if you are good and will help your team to win but can't afford to pay travel ball fees, coaches will not turn you away.

College is very expensive, don't sacrifice your investments for a 25% scholarship.

JMO

PitchingFan I've heard of these wonderful free opportunities. I know of one player for our area that took advantage of this sort of opportunity this past summer. My son's not top D1/P5, so there's that. The issue is getting discovered for that sort of opportunity. I think one, it has to be early enough to generate talk and two, there also needs to be an opportunity to perform in front of such an organization. My son has never played in a PBR or PG event. To keep costs down we also refrained from being on a travel team that competed far enough to require lodging. This past summer as a 16yo was the first time we had to utilize lodging. To follow tournament rules I would make the required reservation, then right before the tournament I'd cancel the reservation and stay at the cheapest most ghetto place one could find because the rule only stated reservations had to be made through a particular agency, there was no mention of actually staying at the reserved hotel. For us with a player that's not top D1/P5 we unfortunately have expenses. We save where we can, like continuing to use the same $60 glove for five years, or graciously accepting gear to borrow from friends and coaches. Packing meals instead of eating out. Even after all the cost cutting maneuvers we are not under $2k. Guess I'm getting hosed then?

I've wanted to post in this thread 100 times and held off.  A feeble attempt at saying something that maybe can help...

Frustration.  This is caused by knowing something that you think is important (e.g., am I missing out on some hypothetical timeline) that has little relevance to you.  I've always felt there can be harm with the way information may be used/received here at the hsbbweb.  The idea of a timeline has always baffled (frustrated) me.  God made each of us completely different.  He blesses each one of us with different gifts and at different "times."  Some kids may be college ready (baseball wise) in 8th grade.  Should one be concerned about their timeline?  Other kids may not be college ready (baseball wise) until years after high school.  The funny thing is, those late bloomers may turn out to be better players in the long run than someone who seemed to be a sure bet at a much younger age.  None of us know the future - even the shrewdest baseball professionals. 

There are scouts at every game.  Many people don't realize this.  Coaches, players, parents, grandparents, spectators, umpires, and so forth.  Don't go so much by what the people on your sidelines say.  What is the reaction of the non-interested observer?  Do opposing coaches make comments to your son after the game?  Do opposing parents come over to your side and mention what they noticed?  Do opposing players notice?  In a fall ball league we played in Sandusky, Ohio this fall, one of the umpires was a scout for several D1 and D2 teams in Michigan.  He made it clear which players he noticed and asked for their information.

Stats.  Yes, the better players tend to have the best stats.  They are highly misleading at the youth level.  There are some kids who go 4-4 whenever they face slower/mediocre pitching, for example.  When the talent level goes up - with higher velocity and breaking balls, some of these same kids seem clueless.  Yet, when you average it all up, their "numbers" look good.  Other kids wilt in big moments of a game.  The kids who are noticed usually have something to do with the outcome of a game - offensively, defensively, baserunning, hustle, baseball IQ, and so forth.  Maybe your guy was 0-3 on a given day but he made defensive plays that affected the outcome of the game. 

I love kids who at the end of a game, their uniform is dirty.  That type of information tells me something about a player. 

Making the high school team and helping them win.  I've read thousands of posts here where parents tell how their travel team blows away the high school team.  Maybe so.  But the high school team is the hand you are dealt so it presents an opportunity.  One player can make a difference on a high school team.  I still believe it just as important as summer travel baseball for different reasons.

About 10% of all high school players go on to play college or professional baseball.  My contention has been - and I will never back down from this - if you are a decent player (not overwhelming talent but decent talent), there is a place for you somewhere at the next level be it D1, D2, D3, JUCO, NAIA, or pro.  Do I need to get frustrated if I do not know "today" what level or team my son will play at?  No.  We need to be grateful for the blessings and opportunities of today.  God willing, tomorrow will take care of itself.

TPM;

In 1987, when I initiated the Area Code games to this day, there was no charge the players, the pro scouts selected the players thru tryouts, which involved 800 additional players each for the Scouts and College Coaches to evaluate.

Pro scouts were the team coaches and over 6 days there were many clinics and the knowledge and respect of the game existed. Players and family received $35 million each year in signing bonus.

All the players need to do was to ask questions.

In addition, Dusty Baker, Eric Davis, Tommy Lasorda added knowledge and entertainment.

Each year, we formed a American Team to play the Japan and Korean National Teams.

Bob

@ClevelandDad posted:

I've wanted to post in this thread 100 times and held off.  A feeble attempt at saying something that maybe can help...

Frustration.  This is caused by knowing something that you think is important (e.g., am I missing out on some hypothetical timeline) that has little relevance to you.  I've always felt there can be harm with the way information may be used/received here at the hsbbweb.  The idea of a timeline has always baffled (frustrated) me.  God made each of us completely different.  He blesses each one of us with different gifts and at different "times."  Some kids may be college ready (baseball wise) in 8th grade.  Should one be concerned about their timeline?  Other kids may not be college ready (baseball wise) until years after high school.  The funny thing is, those late bloomers may turn out to be better players in the long run than someone who seemed to be a sure bet at a much younger age.  None of us know the future - even the shrewdest baseball professionals.

There are scouts at every game.  Many people don't realize this.  Coaches, players, parents, grandparents, spectators, umpires, and so forth.  Don't go so much by what the people on your sidelines say.  What is the reaction of the non-interested observer?  Do opposing coaches make comments to your son after the game?  Do opposing parents come over to your side and mention what they noticed?  Do opposing players notice?  In a fall ball league we played in Sandusky, Ohio this fall, one of the umpires was a scout for several D1 and D2 teams in Michigan.  He made it clear which players he noticed and asked for their information.

Stats.  Yes, the better players tend to have the best stats.  They are highly misleading at the youth level.  There are some kids who go 4-4 whenever they face slower/mediocre pitching, for example.  When the talent level goes up - with higher velocity and breaking balls, some of these same kids seem clueless.  Yet, when you average it all up, their "numbers" look good.  Other kids wilt in big moments of a game.  The kids who are noticed usually have something to do with the outcome of a game - offensively, defensively, baserunning, hustle, baseball IQ, and so forth.  Maybe your guy was 0-3 on a given day but he made defensive plays that affected the outcome of the game.

I love kids who at the end of a game, their uniform is dirty.  That type of information tells me something about a player.

Making the high school team and helping them win.  I've read thousands of posts here where parents tell how their travel team blows away the high school team.  Maybe so.  But the high school team is the hand you are dealt so it presents an opportunity.  One player can make a difference on a high school team.  I still believe it just as important as summer travel baseball for different reasons.

About 10% of all high school players go on to play college or professional baseball.  My contention has been - and I will never back down from this - if you are a decent player (not overwhelming talent but decent talent), there is a place for you somewhere at the next level be it D1, D2, D3, JUCO, NAIA, or pro.  Do I need to get frustrated if I do not know "today" what level or team my son will play at?  No.  We need to be grateful for the blessings and opportunities of today.  God willing, tomorrow will take care of itself.

Thank you so much for your words. I'm going to turn back to this often and re-read this. You're very right in the fact that our frustration is a result of us trying to fit some "schedule" when in all honesty my son has been on his own unique journey. He is where he is today because of having that atypical journey. He's turned out pretty spectacular thus far and so when I start to get frustrated...I'm just going to have to remember to re-read your thoughts, take a deep breath, and just be grateful.

@Momball11 posted:

Thank you so much for your words. I'm going to turn back to this often and re-read this. You're very right in the fact that our frustration is a result of us trying to fit some "schedule" when in all honesty my son has been on his own unique journey. He is where he is today because of having that atypical journey. He's turned out pretty spectacular thus far and so when I start to get frustrated...I'm just going to have to remember to re-read your thoughts, take a deep breath, and just be grateful.

The schedule is weird and always changing. Recruiting for 2024’s is about to get very slow and will pick up again around May. That doesn’t mean you stop the process, just keep it in mind so hopefully the frustrations are minimal. Many here told me stories of their sons not being committed until November of the senior year.

You’ll have schools that start recruiting hard as soon as their season ends and others that don’t start until July. Some won’t even start making offers until August.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I bet I can find more owners and academies willing to pick up the tab for a good player than you can find good players pushed out because they can't afford it.

The model is simple, you are just making up assumptions that have no way to be proven. I'm sure 20 years ago this was happening but it isn't today. There are tons of programs available for kids to keep playing. There is a relatively lower-income community in the next county over. They always had a scrappy travel team that was our rival and beat us most of the time. They all opted to play Legion ball for their summers because it was either very cheap or free. Those kids are still being recruited and a few of them were even scooped up by a couple national clubs to play in Jupiter this year. If the family of a good player today can't figure out a way for their kid to keep playing travel baseball they aren't trying very hard.

This sport can be very expensive and suck the money right out of you. It doesn't have to be though. Just in the past couple of days I've seen prime examples posted here of parents wasting their money on things that likely won't yield results.

No need to bet, again who absorbs the cost, ask your friends, does it come out of their pocket or is the cost spread out from the lower levels.  Simple business model,

Note, while attending the ABCA Convention in 2020 I sat in on a panel discussion discussing the diversity challenges .

The program in question are more area based, ie. RBI.

As for Legion Baseball, it is not truly available in all areas and has since a significant decrease especially in NJ, as for in South Jersey the powerhouse (Legion team) feeds into the powerhouse Private school, due to the increase influence of travel baseball, it is difficult for the legion team to retain players because the fear missing out of the showcase travel circuit.

I will keep it this simple,  Willingboro NJ, eliminated their LL programs around 2006, so where to the 6u to 12u learn the basics.

Because of limited resources, the high school team has it challenges.

As for assumptions, we can go back and forth, all you have to do is look at the makeup of many college baseball teams to understand there is a lack of opportunities at many levels.

Note, been there and done that between 2010 and 2014, told my son when he sees somebody that looks like him, nod your head to acknowledge.

Upon looking at every roster for the since 2014, at the college level you will notice less than 5% coming from African American background.

Now there are other nuances, to this challenge, for example, sports are normally generational, between 1990 and 2010, many AA went in a different direction from a sports perspective, and as you aware, the game changes at 13u/14u level.

Secondly, once you get to the high school level, sports have been pushing for specialization by training 10 mos out of the year.

Of course there is much more to this dynamic.

@PitchingFan posted:

I've said this before and I will say it again.  If you are spending more than $2,000 a year on baseball teams/coaches/lessons/equipment to try to get a college scholarship you are wasting your money.  If you are a top D1/P5 legit player, someone will let you play for free at the PG and PBR tournaments.  If you are not top D1/P5 legit player, you don't need to go to those places.  If you are wanting to play D2/D3/NAIA/Juco then you don't need to go to the expensive tournaments/showcases to get there.  Invest your money in TRYING to get bigger/faster/stronger and play locally where you can be seen by the D2/D3/NAIA/Juco teams.  Go to their camps/showcases and get in their ears.

I know I just opened myself up to a thrashing but after being in this recruiting game for 20 years as a baseball and a softball varsity HC, parent of 3 guys who went through it, friends with a multitude of baseball and softball HC's at all levels, doing lessons for 15 years, and watching 100's if not a 1,000 guys and their families go through it, this is my conclusion right or wrong and I can almost prove it 90% of the time it is right.

No thrashing. No need to prove.   IMHO, the challenge is getting enough QUALITY game experience in order to gain the necessary skills. Where that can be obtained is the crux of the issue.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

No need to bet, again who absorbs the cost, ask your friends, does it come out of their pocket or is the cost spread out from the lower levels.  Simple business model,

Note, while attending the ABCA Convention in 2020 I sat in on a panel discussion discussing the diversity challenges .

The program in question are more area based, ie. RBI.

As for Legion Baseball, it is not truly available in all areas and has since a significant decrease especially in NJ, as for in South Jersey the powerhouse (Legion team) feeds into the powerhouse Private school, due to the increase influence of travel baseball, it is difficult for the legion team to retain players because the fear missing out of the showcase travel circuit.

I will keep it this simple,  Willingboro NJ, eliminated their LL programs around 2006, so where to the 6u to 12u learn the basics.

Because of limited resources, the high school team has it challenges.

As for assumptions, we can go back and forth, all you have to do is look at the makeup of many college baseball teams to understand there is a lack of opportunities at many levels.

Note, been there and done that between 2010 and 2014, told my son when he sees somebody that looks like him, nod your head to acknowledge.

Upon looking at every roster for the since 2014, at the college level you will notice less than 5% coming from African American background.

Now there are other nuances, to this challenge, for example, sports are normally generational, between 1990 and 2010, many AA went in a different direction from a sports perspective, and as you aware, the game changes at 13u/14u level.

Secondly, once you get to the high school level, sports have been pushing for specialization by training 10 mos out of the year.

Of course there is much more to this dynamic.

This isn't about who absorbs the cost. You said low income kids are pushed out. If a team, academy, or whatever decides to let the kid play free it doesn't matter who absorbs the cost. If you don't like being on a team that lets kids play free then leave.

The lack of black baseball players is not due to lack of opportunity. Many of those players choose other sports over baseball and it isn't because of money. Many times there is community pressure to focus more on the other sports. I spoke with the mom of a kid from my son's youth teams. He has D1 offers for baseball, football, and even some interest starting now for basketball. He's going with football because it is a 100% scholarship. MLB has done a decent job of providing the RBI league. My son's former league had a program set up and funded by a former MLB player that picked up the tab for an entire community and we were able to form a team in every division. We were able to also find sponsors to also pay for the expenses of any of the kids interested in travel ball. One year we even got Wilson and Nike to donate over $50k in equipment and gear for the kids. Here's an interesting fact I can add on for you.... once the kids hit 12u and beyond they started skipping baseball games for their travel hoops games. The most common responses from parents on why their kids were choosing hoops over baseball; 1. because I had to pay for the travel basketball team 2. he just likes it better

I'll say it again, if you are good enough there is a way to play for little to no cost.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

No thrashing. No need to prove.   IMHO, the challenge is getting enough QUALITY game experience in order to gain the necessary skills. Where that can be obtained is the crux of the issue.

Yes, finding that quality has definitely been an issue.

@CollegebaseballInsights we know that minority struggle personally. When moving to Appalachia I knew I would be a minority. So when my son got into baseball, I knew he automatically would have to deal with implicit bias/racism. It's been interesting to say the least. Fortunately I think he's pretty oblivious to it and it's just made him that much more resilient.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

This isn't about who absorbs the cost. You said low income kids are pushed out. If a team, academy, or whatever decides to let the kid play free it doesn't matter who absorbs the cost. If you don't like being on a team that lets kids play free then leave.

The lack of black baseball players is not due to lack of opportunity. Many of those players choose other sports over baseball and it isn't because of money. Many times there is community pressure to focus more on the other sports. I spoke with the mom of a kid from my son's youth teams. He has D1 offers for baseball, football, and even some interest starting now for basketball. He's going with football because it is a 100% scholarship. MLB has done a decent job of providing the RBI league. My son's former league had a program set up and funded by a former MLB player that picked up the tab for an entire community and we were able to form a team in every division. We were able to also find sponsors to also pay for the expenses of any of the kids interested in travel ball. One year we even got Wilson and Nike to donate over $50k in equipment and gear for the kids. Here's an interesting fact I can add on for you.... once the kids hit 12u and beyond they started skipping baseball games for their travel hoops games. The most common responses from parents on why their kids were choosing hoops over baseball; 1. because I had to pay for the travel basketball team 2. he just likes it better

I'll say it again, if you are good enough there is a way to play for little to no cost.

At one point Barry Larkin was a baseball tv analyst. He stated his son has zero interest in baseball. His son said baseball is uncool. Shane Larkin played for Miami and five years in the NBA. He could have stayed in the NBA. But he signed for a lot more money to play in Europe.

I volunteered time to RBI clinics. Almost all the inner city kids showing up were Hispanic. There were very few blacks.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

This isn't about who absorbs the cost. You said low income kids are pushed out. If a team, academy, or whatever decides to let the kid play free it doesn't matter who absorbs the cost. If you don't like being on a team that lets kids play free then leave.

The lack of black baseball players is not due to lack of opportunity. Many of those players choose other sports over baseball and it isn't because of money. Many times there is community pressure to focus more on the other sports. I spoke with the mom of a kid from my son's youth teams. He has D1 offers for baseball, football, and even some interest starting now for basketball. He's going with football because it is a 100% scholarship. MLB has done a decent job of providing the RBI league. My son's former league had a program set up and funded by a former MLB player that picked up the tab for an entire community and we were able to form a team in every division. We were able to also find sponsors to also pay for the expenses of any of the kids interested in travel ball. One year we even got Wilson and Nike to donate over $50k in equipment and gear for the kids. Here's an interesting fact I can add on for you.... once the kids hit 12u and beyond they started skipping baseball games for their travel hoops games. The most common responses from parents on why their kids were choosing hoops over baseball; 1. because I had to pay for the travel basketball team 2. he just likes it better

I'll say it again, if you are good enough there is a way to play for little to no cost.

I'm not going to debate you because you believe you understand the community on multiple levels, you have a snippet,  I lived it and know a little bit more of based on our experiences.

So it is not a black or white then there is a shade of grey and some nuance,  which is easier to discuss vs debate over a thread.

Again, the challenges will be different based on region (NorthEast vs midwest (chi) vs south vs west).

Say NYC, tough in the inner cities, most from Long Island and Upstate NY, which is a different demographic.

When do you identify good enough?  14u (HS).

@Momball11 posted:

Yes, finding that quality has definitely been an issue.

@CollegebaseballInsights we know that minority struggle personally. When moving to Appalachia I knew I would be a minority. So when my son got into baseball, I knew he automatically would have to deal with implicit bias/racism. It's been interesting to say the least. Fortunately I think he's pretty oblivious to it and it's just made him that much more resilient.

KISS method, don't look at race, play to the best of your ability, but understand you will be in the minority.  Which is why when my son was a junior we played with a very good team from North Jersey, more because I wanted my son to have experience with a hard nose African American coach, who's son was drafted and could put some humility into my son.

Also, the objective was to show my son leaders and/or leadership can come from anybody.

It was more about character building and providing my son with addition resources to discuss  things that he might not want to speak to me about.

As you are aware at some point you can only advise vs tell your young adult.

@CollegebaseballInsights posted:

I'm not going to debate you because you believe you understand the community on multiple levels, you have a snippet,  I lived it and know a little bit more of based on our experiences.

So it is not a black or white then there is a shade of grey and some nuance,  which is easier to discuss vs debate over a thread.

Again, the challenges will be different based on region (NorthEast vs midwest (chi) vs south vs west).

Say NYC, tough in the inner cities, most from Long Island and Upstate NY, which is a different demographic.

When do you identify good enough?  14u (HS).

I agree with you 100% on regional challenges. We have baseball year round in FL. In the fall we compete with football and in the spring we compete with basketball and sometimes football. I mentioned to another poster that the football coaches would literally come to our games to try to convince the kids to leave to go play in a football game. It was a tug of  war. Even now in high school it is hard to get the kids to put in the right training and throwing because the football and basketball coaches are constantly trying to get them for tournaments.

Here in FL kids can play rec for free starting at tee ball. Travel used to start at 9u but now there are teams as young as 7u. Good players of a low-income family won't have trouble finding a team to let them play for free.

When I refer to good HS players I'm referring to potential college prospects. If they aren't a potential college prospect and that is the goal, playing on a team may not be the best for them anyway. They should be training to get biggerfasterstronger until they are.

@TerribleBPthrower posted:

I agree with you 100% on regional challenges. We have baseball year round in FL. In the fall we compete with football and in the spring we compete with basketball and sometimes football. I mentioned to another poster that the football coaches would literally come to our games to try to convince the kids to leave to go play in a football game. It was a tug of  war. Even now in high school it is hard to get the kids to put in the right training and throwing because the football and basketball coaches are constantly trying to get them for tournaments.

Here in FL kids can play rec for free starting at tee ball. Travel used to start at 9u but now there are teams as young as 7u. Good players of a low-income family won't have trouble finding a team to let them play for free.

When I refer to good HS players I'm referring to potential college prospects. If they aren't a potential college prospect and that is the goal, playing on a team may not be the best for them anyway. They should be training to get biggerfasterstronger until they are.

Totally agree.  IMHO, the from what I'm seeing the South has made some significant inroads with respects to this issue via Minority Baseball Prospects.

I believe there are about 4 or 5 organizations that are trying to help.