3 Top Factors In Choosing A College Program

“You like the school, they have your major, you are comfortable on the campus“

These are common sense variables.

“all the financials are not any issue.“

This is too huge of a variable for many to place in the assume category.

It’s hard to chose a program based on a coach. Coaches get fired. If there’s upward mobility they leave for greener pastures. Sure, you don’t walk into a program if you think the coach is a jerk. But it’s not guaranteed you won’t have a jerk for a coach in a year or two.

Regarding #2...I'd say don't overlook a program that has been down but recently changed coaches...might be a good chance to get in on the ground floor of an improving program.

#2 is hard. I seen programs that yo yo

Agree on #1,  but you can't always know.  Agree with 2022 and K9 on #2.

#3 is overrated IMO.  With 35 or more players around each one doesn't have that much one-on-one time with the HC.  He doesn't have to be a saint, but it's good if he's not a monster. Who your teammates are is much, much more important.

#3 is a tough one.  Just keep in mind that the higher up the ladder the program is, the tougher the HC.  Tough in meaning that when they address you the little hairs on your neck stand up. But if you are able to play for one of these coaches, and dislike them, one day you will be applying life skills to what you have learned from them.

I agree that the relationship between your teammates is important. But thats a tough one now because there are no on campus visits. 

I agree with RJM. These days a lot of the young assistant coaches move around, a lot of the older coaches are forced to step down. ADs want younger guys who can relate to the kids today.

#1 no one can predict playing time. Each player needs to prepare for this opportunity.

#2 You and your teammates will make the program successful! Learn the game.

#3 The Coach cannot be your friend.

#4 What Summer College program can I play, to learn and develop?

#5 How do I earn $$ selling programs at basketball, football games.

#6 who is my Tutor?

Bob

@TPM posted:

I agree that the relationship between your teammates is important. But thats a tough one now because there are no on campus visits. 

I guess Francis-son will have to be resourceful.  Seems to me there is a lot of pertinent info online.  Find and follow the social media accounts of players at target schools.  Study the info in rosters. For example if a roster is full of kinesiology majors, and Francis-son plans to major in actuarial science, maybe it's not a good match. 

I wonder if in these weird times, in lieu of overnight campus visits,  a coach might ask current players to temporarily include his top prospects in their group chats on Slack or Snapchat or whatever.  Or at least give a prospect a couple of phone numbers or email address of players so he can ask  them questions.

Ding ding ding.  That was already happening.  Son got phone calls, texts, & snaps from several of the players on the teams he was being recruited by.  Especially lhp's.  I'm sure he hand picked which ones to give to which players but that has been happening.   I'm sure he told them what to say and not say.  I don't know that you want 14/15 year olds on the snapchats that going back and forth between college players. 

@Francis7 posted:

THE FOLLOWING ASSUMES THAT EVERYTHING ELSE BESIDES BASEBALL CHECKS OUT - You like the school, they have your major, you are comfortable on the campus and all the financials are not any issue. The only questions that remain are about the baseball program.

To me, there (below) are the top 3 things you need to consider. Am I off and missing anything?

1. You only get 4 years of eligibility. Go somewhere that gives you a chance to compete for playing time as soon as possible. Don't go to a school where you might start to get a chance to play in your junior year because then you have wasted 50% of your eligibility.

2. Choose a successful program. Playing for a team who is lucky to win 15 games a year gets old in a hurry. Baseball is more fun when you are winning or at least have a chance to win most of the time.

3. Play for a coach that you respect and admire. Don't go to a school where you are not sure if you will get along with the coach. Worst thing to do is have a job where you don't like your boss. 

Francis - Good question in my opinion.  You've got the "big hitters" covered in your first paragraph. As for the rest:

1) It depends what your goal at the end of the 4-5 years is.   If you want to be a professional baseball player than this becomes really, really important and a lot of it will depend on the talent level of the program.   Many freshmen compete for playing time but very few players will actually earn playing time.   As you know, those freshmen starting numbers decrease significantly as you move up the talent hierarchy.    If your son knows he won't be a professional baseball player, and he has a demanding major then I think it becomes important to put a value on his time.  My son loves baseball but he wasn't going to "sacrifice" 20-40 hours per week (depending on the season) to sit on a bench where it could be spent studying for a demanding major.   He was very sensitive to this topic when he chose the school.   So, if he wasn't going to be in the rotation by sophomore year he was going to consider his options.   That didn't happen, but it was something very top of mind for him.

2) I disagree.  In actuality, my son had a lot more opportunities to play in his 4 years because the team was never a perennial winner.  His team did win their conference one year and go to the NCAAs, and he was a big part of their success.   Some years the stars align with the right team chemistry.   Team winning history was not of major importance to my son.

3) More important than the HC's respect and admiration is your son's chemistry with his position coach and the philosphy around strength, conditioning and nutrition.   My son's PC and Strength & Conditioning coaches had a far greater influence on his performance and improvement than anything else during his 4 years.   The HC is filling out a lineup, talking to the PC and Hitting Coaches, and bringing money into the program.   HC has final say on recruitment, but after that he had bigger "fish to fry" with the entire program.  

Good luck!

I agree there's different reasons to choose a school. If you want to play in college before moving on to your career of choice, have a great experience and build great memories, then pick a place where you get along with everyone, where you'll get to play right away and where your coach will become a friend and mentor.

Other kids choose schools because baseball is their career of choice. My son picked the school that had the best baseball program and then he worked his butt off to get playing time his freshman year. I think he has a lot of respect for his coaches and is learning tons from them, but I'm not sure he cares if he "likes" them or "gets along" with them.

To boil it down, there can't be any one sized fits all factors everyone uses to choose a college.

Every kid has different priorities. Different factors matter to them. That's okay.

They should identify those, be honest with themselves about them, and then make their decisions based on their own specific needs.

As usual, Fenway hits the nail on the head on #3.

The HC is not the person that you report to on a daily basis. Your son should be establishing a report with the person who is responsible for developing him as a player. The HC is responsible for developing the player into a responsible adult.  And he is the one who runs team practice.

If you are a pitcher, then the PC recommends who should be in the game. If you are a hitter, the hitting coach does the same. During the game sometimes it may be a collective agreement, but if you aren't playing it's not always because of the HC.  

If you are a catcher, you will work under both assistants. 

A great point made about having a good relationship with the athletic trainer. 

It's impossible to say. Two schools can check every box, but one can just check the boxes and the other can blow you away. These are factors and its all entirely subjective. Where one get a check, another might get a check +. 

Winning is nice, but I wouldn't get caught up in it. Would you pass on a Va Tech, Pitt, Notre Dame to go to a winner in a weaker conference? Would you pass on a Fullerton or a Long Beach because they had a few down years? I would worry more about the level of play than I would the record. Go to a game and watch. I can guarantee a lot of middle of the road and teams with losing records are better than a lot of 30 win teams in weaker conferences. If you're choosing between two schools in the same conference that you're 50/50 on, then maybe culture and win % come into play. 

For me, I'd want to play the best competition possible. To me there is a difference between a 20 win team that is competitive and a 20 win team that gets spanked 2 of 3 every series. You have to be able to read the room. You can look at a 20 win team and say "yeah but look who they're playing" and you can look at a 35 win team and say "yeah but look who they're playing". I'd consider win %, but I wouldn't let it be a deciding factor. 

I agree with the folks who challenged #2. PTWooddaughter plays basketball at Northwestern. They were 12-20 the year before she got there. 21-15 her freshman year (losing in the NIT finals) and 26-4 last year finishing top 15 in all polls and projected to be a 2 or 3 seed in the NCAA tournament if it hadn't been cancelled. She researched the reputation of the coach, looked at who they had on the team and who they were bringing in with her and believed in what they were building. Plus, NU checked all her other boxes. Playing against great competition, an outstanding education, and a chance (not a guarantee) to play.

If the team has been terrible for 20 years and isn't doing anything to change it that's one thing, but there is nothing more satisfying (even exhilarating) than being part of a team that turns things around.

@Francis7 posted:

 

1. Go somewhere that gives you a chance to compete for playing time as soon as possible.

I think "a chance" is the key part here. The coach can tell you all you want to hear when you are being recruited. See who's ahead of you, and be ready to COMPETE. You can a great deal of insight by looking at the year to year roster and stats. 

2. Choose a successful program. Playing for a team who is lucky to win 15 games a year gets old in a hurry. Baseball is more fun when you are winning or at least have a chance to win most of the time.

I really disagree here. Son committed and played to a "15 win program or less". They competed for league title freshman year and went to NCAA's (school record win total) son's sophomore year. A good recruiting class(es) can turn a program around and change the culture.

3. Play for a coach that you respect and admire. Don't go to a school where you are not sure if you will get along with the coach. Worst thing to do is have a job where you don't like your boss. 

The coach who recruited you may be different once you are there, but yes admiration from players is good. We learned much watching games when son was still in HS being recruited. How did the coach interact with players? How were his on field decisions? Talk to a few of the current players (starters and non-starters). 

The "non baseball" reasons can't be neglected (as others indicated). Those played heavily on son's selection of college program.

Just to amplify what others have said: the sum of all three of points on Francis' checklist is greater than its parts.

1) chance to play: 100%. Study year to year stats.  See who's graduating. See who's waiting in the wings. Both Smokesons looked for and were fortunate to find mutual attraction with D3 schools where at least one starting outfielder graduated in May before they joined the team in August. What I didn't anticipate for son #1 was that one of the other OF recruits would be a power hitter, which #1 is definitely not. I also didn't expect him to compete with either of the heir apparent OFs: one led the team in hitting the year before, and the other had the most experience of any of the non-starters. So what happens is the other frosh hits with power and initially takes the third spot during fall ball and preseason and has started every game since. The OF leading the team in hitting did it again.  But the guy who expected to start after spot playing for three years had a brutal fall and preseason slump, lost his spot, and left the team after its Florida trip.

2. Successful program: 23.7%: All the D3 schools Smokesons looked at had winning records and recent playoff history, if not regionals, then at least conference tournaments.  #1 eventually played in a regional and said it was awesome being there. #2's team had been the D3 CWS the year before he was recruited. The relative strength of each team mattered, but if a HA D1 (Patriot or Ivy) had come calling then records wouldn't have mattered to either of them. At all. 

3. Play for a coach you admire: 37% but  I would change admire to tolerate, and if you end up admiring the guy, then that's a bonus.  Research this as much as possible, though, because you don't want a guy who promises your kid the moon, and then disappears as soon as your kid gets in the door.  Research is also important because someone, somewhere who thinks they weren't treated fairly by the coach may want to do a hatchet job on them.  I've seen it on this site and I've heard in the stands at showcases. Don't settle for just one opinion, good or bad. Biggest priorities about the coach for me as a parent was this: Is the dude FAIR? Is he HONEST?

So total percentage of those three: 160.7 %. Get that and you'll have a winner.

Smokeson #3 ('22) is heading into the recruiting gauntlet.  He's a pitcher, so maybe his percentages will line up differently, but I already know they're gonna add up to more than 100% and the process will be much different for him. He'll either have the velo and control he needs, or he won't.  If he doesn't then there won't be any factors at all, let alone 3.

@Francis7 posted:

1. You only get 4 years of eligibility. Go somewhere that gives you a chance to compete for playing time as soon as possible. Don't go to a school where you might start to get a chance to play in your junior year because then you have wasted 50% of your eligibility.

Most incoming freshman recruited as catchers don't play right away. One might be a stud in HS, but chances are that you will play behind the guy who has the job currently.  And probably there will be someone else looking for the job as well. Make sure that you can hit, and you will play while learning the position.

For some strange reason, some guys come in thinking that they will play as catcher right away, 

I agree with what a lot of others have said.  Play time is never a guarantee and who could have predicted what we are going through now...you have to be willing to work hard and compete, regardless.  As for the coach, I think most top programs, regardless of D1,D2,D3 are likely hard asses.  Respect yes, but likely also hate sometimes.  Most coaches have reputations and it's not too hard to find out about them.  Winning, yeah, you never know, but I do think that my son wanted to go to the best baseball school he could go to.  That was probably his top factor.  Again, that is a little subjective and changes year to year.  How much is your son factoring into the decisions? It's clear you are thinking a lot about every scenario (I think most of us do) but how much is your son?

My nephew  is a freshman football recruit at his local D3.  Based on my son’s experience he and my sister in law asked me at Christmas time looking back at it 4 (now 5) years later what was my opinion of what he should look for. He was a preferred walk on type at D1 level.  

I said from what I saw from son and his teammates’ experiences I would value two criteria over all.  Go where you are confident you will play and the team wins no matter the level.  

Son has contributed on 3 forty win teams and pitched in 3 post seasons so far. 13K fans in one at Arkansas.   They have won a bunch and lots of great memories but lots of great players I have seen move on because at the end of the day it’s way more fun to play. It’s a ton of work and time invested to sit and watch others. 

The number one thing is find a school that you would go to even if you weren't playing baseball...injuries happen, transfers happen...don't go to a school just to play baseball.

@Buzzard05 posted:

The number one thing is find a school that you would go to even if you weren't playing baseball...injuries happen, transfers happen...don't go to a school just to play baseball.

This is gospel to me but the end of the day, what is your kid's goal for college baseball? 

@2022NYC posted:

This is gospel to me but the end of the day, what is your kid's goal for college baseball? 

Well, to be honest, for 99% of the college players (just making that number up)...the end of the baseball line is their senior year in college.  So for those, I think they absolutely need to focus on the school and getting the degree that will position them for success after college.  Now in conjunction with that decision should most certainly be the baseball program (will I play? do I fit in with the guys I meet? do I like the coach?, etc.)  For those 1% that have actual potential for continuing after college, their choices might be different and based on exposure and what positions them for their best chance at pro ball (although education still has to be considered strongly).

My son has a good friend that he played with in HS.  This kid was an average to slightly above average player and was getting recruited by two schools.  One school he loved the campus but wasn't crazy about the coach.  The second school he loved the coach and would have definitely played, but hated the campus.  He and my son were talking and he was trying to figure out his choice and my son told him (maybe because I drilled it into him)..."Pick the school where you would go if you weren't playing baseball."  The kid chose school number one (loved the campus).  Sure enough, he gets there, gets a slight injury in the fall and misses most of the workouts and the coach cuts him in the spring....baseball done.  However, he was as happy as he could be there and still absolutely loves it.

At the end of the day, it is the kid's decision and they often get enamored with just the baseball side of things.  I think we as parents (at least 99% of us) have to be that "voice of reality" and really push them to where they will get the most out of that college AFTER their playing days are done.

@Buzzard05 posted:

The number one thing is find a school that you would go to even if you weren't playing baseball...injuries happen, transfers happen...don't go to a school just to play baseball.

So if you are a baseball player, and you love baseball, the last thing you should do when considering a college is factor in the baseball program. Just assume the worst thing that could possibly happen that would preclude you from playing baseball will happen and then choose.

How about this. Given that almost all the people I know with a college degree are working at a job unrelated to that degree, consider the baseball program strongly. Because yes, that may very well be the last baseball you play.

You come to a baseball forum because you love baseball and want advice, and you're told the last thing you should think about is baseball.

The whole "woke" shit on this forum is really getting old.

Probably not popular but I agree.   My son has been fortunate to play right away but no chance he stays where he is at if he gets hurt or wasn’t playing. He would have been elsewhere to finish school. He has his bachelor’s and will have his MBA when done playing next spring. He’s been fortunate and blessed but the baseball program was the number 1 and only reason he went where he did. It can work out that way too

Backstop Dad;

MBA Major?

Baseball competition has provide your son the foundation to succeed. Now is the "real" World.

Daily decisions and there is NO crystal ball, only experiences and maturity.

Stay safe!

Bob

Hi Bob. Emphasis in marketing I believe.  

Thanks  and stay safe as well. 

@BackstopDad32 posted:

Probably not popular but I agree.   My son has been fortunate to play right away but no chance he stays where he is at if he gets hurt or wasn’t playing. He would have been elsewhere to finish school. He has his bachelor’s and will have his MBA when done playing next spring. He’s been fortunate and blessed but the baseball program was the number 1 and only reason he went where he did. It can work out that way too

I didn't like your reply because that's not the way things worked out for the kid. Things (PC) weren't a fit and he was given no choice but to transfer. So be it, he found somewhere else and now it's baseball 2.0. So no like because sometimes things don't go as planned and it's still OK. Good baseball program and offer the same degree. There is life after adversity.

Or teach your kid to take the safest road because something might go wrong and OMG.

Backstop.

MArketing a great Major. My MA was “Creative Social Marketing” with a Minor in Bill Veeck

Bob

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

So if you are a baseball player, and you love baseball, the last thing you should do when considering a college is factor in the baseball program. Just assume the worst thing that could possibly happen that would preclude you from playing baseball will happen and then choose.

How about this. Given that almost all the people I know with a college degree are working at a job unrelated to that degree, consider the baseball program strongly. Because yes, that may very well be the last baseball you play.

You come to a baseball forum because you love baseball and want advice, and you're told the last thing you should think about is baseball.

The whole "woke" shit on this forum is really getting old.

Each person’s perspective might be based on the level they’re seeing the world. If a kid is a D3, at the right school and baseball isn’t working out, he’s done. It’s about being at the right school without baseball. 

If my kid was at Johns Hopkins and couldn’t get on the field I wouldn’t recommend transferring. You don’t walk away from a HA D3. 

If a kid is at a D1 and baseball isn’t working out there are a lot of options.

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

So if you are a baseball player, and you love baseball, the last thing you should do when considering a college is factor in the baseball program. Just assume the worst thing that could possibly happen that would preclude you from playing baseball will happen and then choose.

How about this. Given that almost all the people I know with a college degree are working at a job unrelated to that degree, consider the baseball program strongly. Because yes, that may very well be the last baseball you play.

You come to a baseball forum because you love baseball and want advice, and you're told the last thing you should think about is baseball.

The whole "woke" shit on this forum is really getting old.

I don't know how woke it is, a lot of different people come here looking for different answers. I would say that advice applies more to cases where there is zero pro potential or zero money on the table. If I'm a D3 prospect, I would be choosing a school I could play baseball at and not a baseball program at a school I'd be fine with a degree from. In other words when you're completely comfortable walking away from baseball if things don't work out, those are cases where I'd put baseball in the backseat. 

I knew a kid who took a 25% offer from a bad D1. Some injuries and a 12.00 ERA later and he wasn't asked back, transferred to a NESCAC. Can't say I wouldn't do the same if I could swing that tuition. 

The advice applies when you know this is going to be your last stop. If everybody believed the go where you're happiest without baseball advice, there would never be an ounce of juco love on this board

That makes more sense to me. If baseball is over after this stop, yes, pick a school you like regardless. For my son and many of his friends, if they can’t play somewhere, they would transfer.  My son told us that if he wasn’t playing baseball he probably wouldn’t have gone to college at all.  That would have been a long discussion and was never really a possibility, but for most kids in his position, baseball is the number one factor.  A close second was how cold it would be in February when baseball started

@SomeBaseballDad posted:

So if you are a baseball player, and you love baseball, the last thing you should do when considering a college is factor in the baseball program. Just assume the worst thing that could possibly happen that would preclude you from playing baseball will happen and then choose.

How about this. Given that almost all the people I know with a college degree are working at a job unrelated to that degree, consider the baseball program strongly. Because yes, that may very well be the last baseball you play.

You come to a baseball forum because you love baseball and want advice, and you're told the last thing you should think about is baseball.

The whole "woke" shit on this forum is really getting old.

Hey, you don't have to agree with it sunshine...but that is how my son and I approached it and it worked out great.  At some point you have to stop being your son's "buddy" and actually be a dad and provide a voice of reason.  I am not paying 30K a year for travel baseball (which is what college ball is for most of our kids).  I am paying 30K a year (private D3) for him to get an education and be prepared when he is done in four years...at this point in life, baseball is just icing on the cake....but that was our approach, it doesn't have to be yours. 

This whole "everybody has to agree with  me or they are wrong BS" is getting old in this country.

Soooo many kids get to college and do not play, do not play as much and fall victim to all the other things, injuries, grades, drinking, skipping classes, girls etc. My son went because of baseball and the coaches and the campus. He still doesnt have a degree as he was drafted. He does have plans to return and get undergrad and masters on school and MLB insurance dime. Who knows when that will happen. I know lots of kids who were studs where they came from and fell out of favor with the coach or were just beat out by better players and did not play. I would factor in whatever is important to your son and help with advice, at the end of the day...its his life and his choice. 

Even if you think your kid is in that 1% that has a baseball career waiting after college, and he needs to make decisions about college with that in mind (and I agree that there are a very small few that need to do this to improve their draft chances), parents should still be their voice of reason and make sure they always have an eye on plan B.  As hard as they will have to work at their college baseball, they should do everything they can not to neglect their education or pick a basket-weaving major that is completely worthless upon graduation.  They should try to get as much as they can out of their classes.  Because even among that very small few that should pick college just for baseball, most of them will not end up with a baseball career, much less a very long one.

I see plenty of 23-year-old guys around Georgia coaching 13u and 14u travel teams who made this mistake.

What's good for one player, may not be appropriate for another. 

Some players choose a school so they can play baseball, some choose a school to help pay for their education,  some choose a program because they think that it will help in the draft.

No reason to put down anyone's opinion, situation or their plan B if baseball doesn't work out.    

Just make sure there is a plan B. 

@LuckyCat posted:

Even if you think your kid is in that 1% that has a baseball career waiting after college, and he needs to make decisions about college with that in mind (and I agree that there are a very small few that need to do this to improve their draft chances), parents should still be their voice of reason and make sure they always have an eye on plan B.  As hard as they will have to work at their college baseball, they should do everything they can not to neglect their education or pick a basket-weaving major that is completely worthless upon graduation.  They should try to get as much as they can out of their classes.  Because even among that very small few that should pick college just for baseball, most of them will not end up with a baseball career, much less a very long one.

I see plenty of 23-year-old guys around Georgia coaching 13u and 14u travel teams who made this mistake.

^^^ that last sentence was harsh  but more likely true

Is it fair to say that the 1% with more baseball to play after college would have had the option after HS as well. I know I know some kids bloom late, esp pitchers, and I'm not trying to crush someone's dreams. The way I read this thread is basically a warning to take a true look in the mirror and be realistic. Dream big and swing for the fences, just don't get caught up trying to catch lighting in bottle at the expense of drifting away from a better option. 

ps. this comes from someone who is in the medical field and spent a long time putting himself through college to not have to worry about my next paycheck.  

@ReluctantO'sFan posted:

^^^ that last sentence was harsh  but more likely true

Is it fair to say that the 1% with more baseball to play after college would have had the option after HS as well. I know I know some kids bloom late, esp pitchers, and I'm not trying to crush someone's dreams. The way I read this thread is basically a warning to take a true look in the mirror and be realistic. Dream big and swing for the fences, just don't get caught up trying to catch lighting in bottle at the expense of drifting away from a better option. 

ps. this comes from someone who is in the medical field and spent a long time putting himself through college to not have to worry about my next paycheck.  

Yes, I agree.  Those 1 percenter should dream big!  They are the ones who just might make it.  And work hard to make it so.  But, they must not forget about the plan B.  Take advantage of the college education and get the best education and degree you can while dreaming big and working hard at baseball.  Then, if it turns out you have to hang up your cleats after your senior year (or after a year or three banging around in the minors), then you're ready to put plan B into action.

Putting all your eggs in the MLB's basket is a fools errand no matter who you are.

Speaking only for my child and talking softball and not baseball:

• The school she picked was the top school in that state for her intended major.
• She knew the coach who was the coach recruiting her to another college but got the head job at the school she attended.  She has a 4 year relationship with this coach and he called her to be his first recruit at the new school.
• Show me the money.  With the athletic and academic money she knew that in four years she would not have any debt and she did not have any debt when she left.  
• I am going to add one.  My Mom became very sick with cancer.  My Mom entered hospice in April of that year.  The school she attended was 40 minutes away from our house.  She wanted to be close to home knowing that my Mom was not going to survive the year.