Abusive Coach

6killer,

Thanks for posting. I wish you were posting under different circumstances. I hope there may be others that have dealt with bullying coaches, so they can offer suggestions. Sorry, I don't have an easy answer or suggestion for you but I really do feel for your situation. If this was the work place it might be easier becasue there are laws against a hostile work environment.

At the least, I would probably document every action or in-action by the AC or HC so you can recall these incidents if it comes to blows with the AD, Principal, School Board or 6 o'clock news. This AC sounds like he has serious issues. I find it hard to believe that the HC doesn't see this going on.

As a parent your instinct is to protect your kids until they can take care of themselves. It sounds like you've thought hard about forward, but your son doesn't want to do that. It may come to a point very soon where you have to step-in for his safety. A private meeting with the HC and AD together may have to be the first step to bring this issue forward. As the parent of three boys, I sympathize with your situation.

I hope your situation gets resolved soon.

Welcome, and I am so sorry to hear about your issues. FenwaySouth gives very solid advice about documenting everything, even if it's just to have in your back pocket for the time being. If you can videotape games I would do that as well so that the camera can pick up anything tangential.

2013 has many teammates who played for a JV coach who sounds exactly like your AC. Fortunately for us, our son played Freshman and then Varsity, so he missed out on it. But we know the parents of some players who played for this abusive jerk for one or two seasons. One in particularly was thrilled to make JV as a freshman, only to become shell-shocked and and lost all of his self-confidence. As a sophomore it didn't improve. Now he'll play Varsity as a junior and the new coach has been spending as much time as team psychologist as he has been a coach for this young man and a few others.

I think you're wise to be concerned about him losing his passion for the game. But if he continues to say it doesn't bother him, try to get him to talk about it in other ways. Sometimes what bothers us (and rightfully so) doesn't trouble them as much. Let him know that you're always there to talk and that under no circumstances will you abandon him as a parent and an advocate . . . period.

Good luck. I hope things improve.

Thanks for the replies. My problem is, I wouldn't hesitate to go to jail for my family. So it takes everything I have to sit back and watch. I have documented the transgressions of the AC but hope to never have to use them.

Thanks

This situation is awful to deal with. Did you see the AC kick Mudd in your Son's face? My guess is you didn't. Did any other Adults? This Guy sounds like someone nobody would care for. I would agree that Documentation & if possible video are the best avenues to deal with this Guy. If it gets physical or there is anymore Mudd slinging I would deal with it immediatly. Unfortunatley the verbal abuse is something you & your Son will have to deal with. Hopefully he has thick enough skin & realizes sometimes in life you have to deal with A#@holes like this. Good luck!!

There is no video. The AC appears to be very experienced in his actions. He makes sure the HC is never around when he becomes abusive. The team sees and knows what is going on but keeps silent for fear of retaliation.

Sorry to hear about your situation. But, sounds like a life lesson presneting itself to your son. How does HE want to handle it? Is he ready to go to the HC and voice what's going on? I too would also have a hard time with this situation and find it hard to believe the HC does not know. I readily admit that I may be a little quicker to "pull the trigger" so to speak if it were my son...but, maybe your sone is actually being the better person in this case. Your sons lack of response to the AC's provocations probably heats up the AC even more. Until then you can only be supportive of your son. I am sure he'll speak his mind when the time comes. Like the others said, document it all and keep feeding him the rope......

can you please define abusive

If the "abuse" is true abuse and bullying, most if not all school districts, would take those allegations seriously. In these times of "bullying" leading to suicides, it's a very real and sensitive subject for school administrators.

TRhit....

The mud incident.

Then during BP, before a game boasting about the incident to other players and calling my son an idiot for taking it.

Making references to my son's sexual orientation. Telling the other players he is ***. (no he is not)

Claiming that one of the JV players is a better hitter, no biggie, there is always someone better. But his intentions are to be-little and break down character in front a audience.

During one of their games my son had a nice base hit on a hit and run and was told he sucked when he got to first. AC coaches first.

He has tried to change my son's catching style from soft hands to "jab and grab" and then informs the HC that my son cannot catch.

etc etc etc...

.

how do you know all these things?

They come out slowly. We have to pry a lot of stuff out.

Maybe your son needs to throw that mud right back at him? Don't listen to me... I'm not very smart!

If somebody is going to get this guy fired, let it be another dad, not you. Non-intervention by you is bad. But intervention is worse. Kudoes to your son for dealing well with it.

I don't kick mud, I don't condone mud-kicking. But mud never hurt anybody. Let it go.

If a non-abusive much-respected coach flipped out and kicked some mud in a player's face, would we care?

Having said that, I'm sympathetic regarding your situation.

Why should we--as parents, tax-payers or tuition-payers--demand less from an assistant coach than we would from a teacher or an administrator or a school janitor?? Besides being a jerk, the assistant coach is setting an extremely bad example for the kids on the team. And, from your decsriptions, it is evident that he is an adult being abusive toward a child.

I say: document everything...as painful as it might for your son to re-hash every incident. And then, if it continues, go to the principle--not the AD.

If what you say is 100% accurate (and I'm not doubting you one bit), the assistant coach deserves to be disciplined (e.g. suspended for two weeks without pay) or fired (what I would advocate).

Because I'm lazy, I'm cutting and pasting an earlier reply of mine from a discusssion regarding an incompetent coach who was draining all the enthusiam out of the poster's son, but I think it still pertains:

Regardless of whether this is a public high school supported by taxes or a private/parochial high school supported by tuition, a parent has every right to want and expect a quality educational program (and that includes the athletic department) for their child. So, let's approach the poster's stated dilemma from a different angle to see if there is a smart course of action.

Let's say that the school had a really lousy mathematics department and your son was a good enough math student to take honors/AP courses and qualify for the math team. Besides that, he loves math! But unfortunately the head of the math dept (or a specific math teacher) has shown a propensity over a number of years for leaching the joy of learning math out of any student that comes under his/her purview.

Now, do you shrug and say "Well, I guess my son will ride it out, cause there is little I can do," or do you go to the principal and in a reasoned, informed, and prepared way, express your concern? Sure, there is risk involved; maybe nothing will change and you (and by osmosis, your child) will be perceived as a malcontent--and your child will suffer for it.

BUT, if the poster's assessment is correct and their motives pure, I think this is the course of action a concerned parent should take--if not for the child, then for the entire program and future participants.

This can't be true.

Apparently you haven't read the other thread about HS baseball issues.

Every coaches' son is the starting SS on varsity in every instance. He would never lose a spot to a non-coaches' kid. Sheesh.

is the boy strong enough to stand up to th ac?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
is the boy strong enough to stand up to th ac?

TRhit: With all due respect (and I do respect your opinions and all that you have put into this board), no CHILD should be put into the inhrently mis-matched position of having to "stand up" (and what the heck does that mean, anyway?) to an ADULT who ridicules him, calls him names that question his sexual preference, or kicks mud in his direction for no other purpose than to intimidate or humiliate him in front of his peers.

my 2 cents. If all this is true about this coach sounds like something a 12 year old would do.

quote:

or kicks mud in his direction

Before it was stated in his face.

we are talking about a hs player here arewenot?---that is a young man not a child

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

or kicks mud in his direction

Before it was stated in his face.

Two different posters. 6killer said it was his son getting mud in the face. Slotty said mud kicked in his direction. That is why the stories are different.

Oh, I wasn't aware you attended his 18th b-day party, TRhit. (Excuse the sarcasm here--this topic has me steamed!)

Even if he is not a minor, it is still a classic situation in which somebody in a position of authority is abusing/intimidating/punishing somebody with lesser power.

In other words, to co-opt some EEOC languge, the AC's behavior was such that...

1. Submission to such conduct was made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of the player remaining on the team,

2. Submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual was used as the basis for coaches' decisions affecting such individual, or

3. Such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's baseball performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive HS sports environment.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
we are talking about a hs player here arewenot?---that is a young man not a child

TRhit - What do you think this young man should do?

Wow. You are in a tough situation. My take would be to have your son "rise above" and ignore it. Don't let the *** win. Use it as motivation to go out and hit better, catch better, hustle better, etc.

Frankly, in High School, I am surprised any of the kids listen to this fool and take the guy seriously. I'll bet most think he is a jackass. I have seen a coach "verbaly attack" high school kids during batting practice -- calling them girls, take your skirt off, etc. They just laughed him off and he would get angry ("don't eyeball me"), so they laughed harder. You could see the looks on thier faces -- this guy's a *&%$. In the end, they went quietly about their business. Good luck.

some coaches will push kids in various ways---my son had it out with his hs varsity coach as a sophomore--- coach berated him openly on the mound for no reason---son shook his hand --handed him the ball, took his glove and back to his regular position in cf--- no retribution at all but son never went to the mound for him again------ coach I never talked about the incident---no need too-- the player took care of business

Just so my position is absolutely clear:

I have no problem with loudmouth coaches who belittle players in an effort to motivate them or bring the team closer together-- as long as all players are treated the same. You know--like the Marines.

I have no problem with coaches who curse and use foul language in order to get their point across.

I have no problem with coaches getting on players when they make mental errors, don't give total effort, aren't focused, and don't have their teammates' backs.

I have no problem with children/minors/young adults verbally defending themselves against anyone they honestly believe is disrespecting them and/or singling them out in an unfair manner.

But, the truth of the matter is that bullies rarely respond to anything but a punch in the chops (i.e. getting disciplined by the school administration).

and--feel free to call me a fool--I also believe that adults, as well as minors, should treat other people the way they would like to be treated.

TRhit - First let me say i agree that some coaches will push kids in different ways. But, there is always a but... All kids do not respond the same. They all need to be pushed in their own unique way, yes i am saying all kids are not equal or the same. They are all different. It is up to the coach to be able to recognize that and use it to his advantage. If the coach does not have the ability to recognize this it will quickly become a disadvantage. You say your Son never pitched for that coach again. Who won the battle on the mound that day - the coach or your son?

Just my 2 cents.

Your son should document everything that happens. He should ask friendly teammates to keep an eye on what's occuring. However, teammates will get tired of the distraction. After documenting the issues what do you do with the list? If the end result doesn't involve the coach being fired your kid is toast. If getting the assistant fired ticks off the head coach your kid is toast. There's more involved than right and wrong. The net result has to be about how your son lands on his feet.

You have plenty of sympathy on this thread. So I'll take a different approach. Part of the problem is this generation of kids and this generation of parents. Being well intentioned it's a generation that has emotionally bundled their kids n bubble wrap. When something goes wrong it's a tragedy.

I'm going to give you a little walking to school, six miles, uphill, both ways philosophy.

When I was nine I made LL majors. It was obvious to me the assistant disagreed with the head ooach selecting me. He threw at me in BP. He told me my kind doesn't play sports, they count money.

I went home and told my father. My father is a WWII veteran. He looked me in the eyes, told me to become a better player and walked off. Other people did notice what was going on. The coach was not invited back the next season.

So now I've had my first lesson: get better. I arrive at high school. I'm the son of one of the high school's freak'n athletic living legends (my dad). The football and baseball coach was a young assistant when my dad played. He was an old grizzled head coach when I was there. I could make a long list of the emotional cr@p I dealt with. The coach thought he couold use humiliation as motivation. How did I handle it? I got better.

These experiences got me ready for having the most obnoxious manager right out of college I had in my career. He was the WWII drill sargent turned manager. I tuned the guy out and succeeded.

In all three of these scenarios I succeeded exceedingly well by the time it was over. I knew I could make it stop by getting better.

The walls weren't put there to keep you out. The walls were put there to see how badly you want in.

Sorry but the days of cursing at or verbally berating anyone as excptable behavior are waaay over particularly for anything doing with public schools. Frankly you can't do it in any professional business envoirnment for long and get away with it either.

Yell about the wussification of America if you want to but that's the way it is in 2010's America. With the right You tube video this guy could lose his job or a lot more.

Of course all based on the facts related by OP as stated.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
You have plenty of sympathy on this thread. So I'll take a different approach. Part of the problem is this generation of kids and this generation of parents. Being well intentioned it's a generation that has emotionally bundled their kids n bubble wrap. When something goes wrong it's a tragedy.

RJM:

I appreciate your point of view and, for the most part, agree. Life is filled with jerks; the sooner you learn to deal with them and thrive, the better. However, with the little bit of info the original poster provided, it appears the AC went over the line--not once, but several times. He appears to be retailiating against a "young man" because the kid beat out his son for a roster spot. While, in my book, the AC deserves to be taught a lesson, it is ultimately up to the father--in concert with his son--to figure out the best course of action.

An aside: I think while the stories about your dad, your baseball experience, and the football coaches are instructive and totally valid, the work analogy is a weak one--the parent is a taxpayer, responsible for contributing to school budget and the AC's salary, as meager as it probably is. He has, by definition, a dog in this fight.

Maybe I missed it, but I did not read what age this player is. Granted kids mature at different stages, but some kids make the varsity as young as 13-14, others not until 17-18.

So for those who wonder if the kid can "stand up to the coach", I'd seriously question if that was a good idea, especially considering the age and size of the kid. More importantly, if the kid does stand up to the coach, it might lead to a physical altercation.
I don't know what the majority of you all think, but rest assured if an adult man were to physically fight my kid in HS, he had better turn himself in or decide to leave town. I am all for kids dealing with kids, and men dealing with men. However coaches/teachers have no business fighting with their players/students.

As to the dirt kicking or verbal stuff, it might be characterized as many negative things, but that does not strike me as "abusive". Maybe the two of them can have a meeting of the minds and straighten it out. Since the coach supposedly berated your son for taking it, I'd suggest he ask the coach what he really expected him to do?

As your son continues to play ball and or move up the ladder he will run into more coaches who are NOT on his "side", your son will need to deal with it on his own, about all you can do is offer advice, when asked.

It sounds as though the coach is more than capable of eventually getting himself fired, I don't think you need to help him out and I also don't recomend keeping a log book of the transgressions as it will make you look petty and won't do a thing for your son. I further suggest never bringing up the issue with parents or teamates, the coaches actions speak for themself, let others point the ovvious. My daughter got her HS basketball coach "fired" for sexual harassment only to become subject to harassment from teamates and their parents. People aren't blind, when the AC is at first talking to your son the 1st baseman hears him as does the umpire etc. A coach's conduct as you describe will be made known to the HC one way or another at some point, if he doesn't already know. There are plenty of umpires and opposing coaches interested in seeing others do the right thing on the field for kids. I would also bet the HC has noticed the AC excess complaints and has discounted them becasue he's already made his choice for catcher. I also imgine the HC must be aware of the problem as he promoted your son over the AC son.

SOmetimes the player talking to the problem coach directly helps, however in my son's experience, a catcher, it was a short term solution as people don't really change much and revert to the ways of their past, however my son felt better about respectfully calling out his summer coach and letting him know he's not helping become all he can. The "problem" should be a motivating factor for your son and a chance to develop a thick skin and approach to dealing with a coach's instructions/comments he might not like. Yelling and screaming or talking the HC or AD don't work in the long run. My son always listen to what the coach ask him to do, gave it try and then either used it or didn't. You never know the coach might have some valid points buried in with his insults. In HS the catching instruction is generally not very good, however players do earn respect for trying something out instead of outright dismissing it and POing the coach.

The best solution is to suceed w/o trying to make the coach look bad or get him fired.

quote:

An aside: I think while the stories about your dad, your baseball experience, and the football coaches are instructive and totally valid, the work analogy is a weak one--the parent is a taxpayer, responsible for contributing to school budget and the AC's salary, as meager as it probably is. He has, by definition, a dog in this fight.

My point is the lessons growing up helped me to deal with my first professional issue. If growing up had been a complete bed of roses the manager might have broken me. Yes I could have quit to get away from him. How does quitting on yor first job six months out of college look on a resume? How would saying, "I quit because he was mean to me" work in an interview? I was national rookie of the year. The second year I was #1 in my region. Then when he got on me I told him if he didn't back off I'll quit and he'll look bad.

The sad thing is... this guy will mentally abuse future kids.

First, you mentioned your son says it doesn't get to him....until he tells you otherwise, don't grill him each night to document every little thing as that will only make the situation worse.

None of us like our kids being treated poorly but unless he tells you he has reached the end of his rope, leave it alone. If he does say it's gone too far, broker a meeting with the head coach, AC, your son and with you IN THE BACKGROUND. Help your son find the right words to ask the coach what he has done to so clearly alienate him and in front of the HC ask what he can do to get back on track. Any questions of why he feels this way will open the door to use specifics. You should simply stand in the background to hold this guy accountable and let him know by your presence that you are fully aware of the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector:
As to the dirt kicking or verbal stuff, it might be characterized as many negative things, but that does not strike me as "abusive".

I respectfully disagree:

The AC has resorted to name calling belittling and even kicking mud in my son's face.

Then during BP, before a game boasting about the incident to other players and calling my son an idiot for taking it.

Making references to my son's sexual orientation. Telling the other players he is ***.

During one of their games my son had a nice base hit on a hit and run and was told he sucked when he got to first.

quote:

Sorry but the days of cursing at or verbally berating anyone as excptable behavior are waaay over particularly for anything doing with public schools. Frankly you can't do it in any professional business envoirnment for long and get away with it either.

Have you heard the way they talk to professional baseball players.

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
Have you heard the way they talk to professional baseball players.

That would be relevant if this was professional baseball.

If a pro manager argues with me and says, "That's a horse**** call," that's life. If a high school manager argues with me and says that, he's done (and in most places, gets an automatic suspension.) The standards of behavior are FAR different.

We taught our son to respect his elders until they show you different.
If this coach does not respect the player, the player needs to stand up for him self and his father should not let him stand alone.