ACC Domination

GO BEAVS!

I had a conversation with Ray Tanner a couple of years ago and asked about the CWS. He said that it usually comes down to who's hot, that team that will advance and have the best chance of winning it all.

One thing I disliked about the regionals this year is that the best teams in the country, ACC & SEC, played and eliminated each other prior to the BIG SHOW. I wish there were more money in college baseball so the tournament could be run like the basketball one. Rank the teams and them play in a normal seeding tournament.

quote:

One thing I disliked about the regionals this year is that the best teams in the country, ACC & SEC, played and eliminated each other prior to the BIG SHOW.

Didn't they have 16 or 17 teams in Regionals?

quote:

...so the tournament could be run like the basketball one. Rank the teams and them play in a normal seeding tournament.

Help me out. I thought that's what they did. Give automatics to conference champs, then pick the rest bsed on RPI, head to head, politics, etc. in 16 four-team regional tournaments, down to sweet 16, down to elite eight at at the CWS.

The ACC and SEC are also helped by the NCAA by stacking the west coast teams into four regionals, and then winners meet in super regionals.

Malibu Regional
Pepperdine
UC Irvine
UCLA
Missouri

Fullerton Regional
CS Fullerton
U San Diego
Fresno St
St Louis

Winner of Malibu/Fullerton met at Fullerton, winner moves on to CWS.
(Six west coast teams, only one can possibly move on to CWS.)

Corvallis Regional
Oregon St
Hawaii
Kansas
Wright St

Austin Regional
Texas
Stanford
North Carolina St
Texas-Arlington

Winner of Corvallis/Austin met in Corvallis, winner moves on to CWS.

(Three west coast teams, only one can possibly move on the CWS.)

Total Nine west coast teams with only Two possible to move on to CWS.

Like Dad04 said, the SEC and ACC had 15 teams spread out through 16 regionals. Getting 4 ACC teams into the CWS….is that a matter of a dominate conference or is it a matter of making sure the west coast can’t dominate but putting the teams in the same brackets?

The ACC and SEC are signifigantly better than even the Big 12 and PAC 10.

Any way you measure it, the west coast gets more recognition BECAUSE of the geography.

Point in fact: 4 of the 16 teams Bullwinkle listed aren't even from the west.

If your looking for a school that was slighted, look no further than Wake Forest, an ACC school that is better than 8 or 10 of the school's in those 4 "western regional's"

The ACC teams got spread out for the simple reason that they were seeded higher based on their performance over the course of the season. The west coast teams lost out because they didn't earn the higher seeds.

I won't say they have no one to blame but themselves, because getting as far as they did is an accomplishment that shouldn't be downplayed. But they don't have any grounds for gripe, either.

quote:

If your looking for a school that was slighted, look no further than Wake Forest, an ACC school that is better than 8 or 10 of the school's in those 4 "western regional's"

Um,..when were they better than 8 or 10 of those schools? Certainly not at the end of the season when they lost 8 of their last 10 games including a 26-1 drilling on a Friday in Clemson SC or their "two and BBQ" in Jacksonville losing a combined 17-2. They had their chance to get in by winning in Jax.

quote:

Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
The ACC teams got spread out for the simple reason that they were seeded higher based on their performance over the course of the season. The west coast teams lost out because they didn't earn the higher seeds.

SoS -- The strength of schedule

Intended
All Non-conf
# SoS SD # SoS SD Team

1 115.0 7.1 2 113.3 6.9 UCLA
2 113.9 7.5 1 113.5 7.9 Long Beach
3 113.7 8.3 11 111.0 8.2 Stanford
4 113.4 7.0 7 112.1 6.1 USC
5 113.2 8.0 12 110.9 7.4 California
6 112.8 6.3 6 112.1 7.1 Fullerton
7 112.7 7.0 16 110.0 8.0 Northridge
8 112.2 6.4 8 111.9 5.3 UC Riverside
9 112.1 6.9 22 108.9 8.6 Georgia
10 112.0 7.1 13 110.5 8.4 Baylor
11 111.9 9.2 25 108.5 8.9 Arizona State
12 111.3 7.0 18 109.9 8.5 Texas
13 111.2 7.5 24 108.5 6.6 UC Irvine
14 110.9 9.6 29 107.5 10.6 Santa Barbara
15 110.9 7.3 23 108.8 6.9 Pacific
16 110.9 10.9 36 106.8 11.4 Arizona
17 110.8 7.1 9 111.2 7.8 LMU
18 110.8 7.0 10 111.0 7.6 San Diego
19 110.6 7.2 32 107.2 6.7 Texas A&M
20 110.5 8.0 34 107.0 5.4 Washington
21 110.4 9.2 35 106.8 10.4 Oklahoma
22 110.1 9.3 3 113.1 7.6 Rice
23 109.9 9.1 42 106.2 8.7 Oregon State
24 109.7 7.7 80 103.1 7.0 Arkansas
25 109.7 8.6 26 108.5 10.4 Portland
26 109.7 7.6 48 105.1 8.9 Florida
27 109.6 10.0 85 102.8 11.1 Alabama
28 109.5 8.0 30 107.5 8.6 Cal Poly
29 109.3 9.5 21 109.5 11.6 Pepperdine
30 109.3 9.4 79 103.2 10.2 Auburn

Here's the top 30....how many ACC teams compared to west coast teams.?

When you play a patsy schedule to should have a high W/L %.

SOS is ALL GAMES, not non conference only!

That's saying the conferences are somehow
comparable. Maybe when your "California dreamin"
(lol)

USC,UCLA and Long Beach are the ONLY west coast D1 programs in the REAL top 30. (8,9 and 24)

[warrennolan.com]

ISR's and the resulting Strength of Schedule have a left coast bias. RPI's and the resulting Strength of Schedule calculated from them have an East Coast bias.

Reality is somewhere in-between.

And you still have human beings making the at large selections---there will always be teams left out that people think should be in and vice versa--it is just the way it is

quote:

Originally posted by soxnole:
The ACC and SEC are signifigantly better than even the Big 12 and PAC 10.

Not to disagree but looking at statistics says historically that may not necessarily be the case. Somewhere around here, somebody posted how East Coast teams fared against West Coast teams. If I recall, best case scenario was .500 at best, and I think that was @ home for the EC team. If it was a neutral site, it dropped and at WC, it dropped even further....IF I remember correctly.

It's kind of nice to see if the ACC can live up to their high ratings for the first time in memory. The ACC Conference hasn't produced a National Champion since 1955 when Wake Forest won it all.

GO UGA!!!

What's neat is my nephew is in Athens today and tomorrow for Freshman orientation. He'll be able to see his future teammates practice for the College World Series! Hopefully get a little time with the new friends he met last fall during his official visit. Looking forward to his return to Central Illinois on Thursday to hear his stories.

GO DAWGS!!!

My statement concerning tournament brackets, is that baseball tends to set it up so that teams do not have to travel very far, if possible. So if it was like basketball, if the top ranked teams were, say all ACC, then one would have been sent to say California to play teams in that bracket. Instead, they played team basically from the SE. That's all.

I'd like to see games played at a neutral site too.

If 2 ACC teams play for the championship I'll buy the domination idea. With 3 of 4 teams in bracket 1 they have a good chance of having one advance to the finals. If Miami also advances that would be impressive for the conference. However with a lot of baseball yet to be played I find it premature to say the ACC and SEC are significantly better. They are the best in the east. If they win out then I will believe they are the best this year.

P.S. I intend to be at game 12 on wednesday night which is the unbeaten team vs the last once beaten team in bracket 2. Hopefully it will be Oregon St vs Rice.

So why did Miami come out west.
Why did UNC come out west.

Did Stanford beat out UNC to go to the Super Regional's?

They put top team's in the same bracket. What's with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Bullwinkle:
The ACC Conference hasn't produced a National Champion since 1955 when Wake Forest won it all.

USC has won 11 since then.

quote:

Originally posted by soxnole:

USC,UCLA and Long Beach are the ONLY west coast D1 programs in the REAL top 30. (8,9 and 24)

HUH???? Say what?

You do realize where Stanford is located right? And that CSF is still in the tourney (and were Natl Champs 2 yrs ago)? And last time I checked, the states of Washington and Oregon were still on the West Coast.

Being from ACC country I follow the league very closely. I have always been a big fan of SEC baseball as well. Mainly because I like the fact the league is so competitive and the venues they play in are outstanding. The fact is the West has some outstanding programs. Stanford USC Arizona ASU CSF Oregon State has really come on recently and many many more. This year the ACC has been very good. It is a league on the rise that is for sure. One reason I feel the ACC had the success in the regionals this year and advanced more teams is because they had very good matchups. UNC with its pitching and hot bats was going to give anyone trouble in a 2-3 series. Clemson and Ga Tech were at home in regionals that they should have won and Super Regionals they should have and did win. Miami is Miami and they seem to play their best when they have to. Ole Miss is a very good team but they are not Stanford on the road or OSU on the road. I do feel that OSU and CSF are two of the best teams left. I also feel that UNC with its pitching staff can beat anyone in this tourney. Who knows who will come out on top? But I do not feel that anyone has domination over anyone else. What I do believe is there is parity and there is great baseball from coast to coast. All this stuff about this league is best or this area is best is nonsense. It can change from year to year. There are some constants though. The SEC is great every year.

Beezer.

After 988 posts it would be nice if you read the thread prior to spouting off.

FYI...Stanford was # 31 in SOS.

quote:

All this stuff about this league is best or this area is best is nonsense. It can change from year to year.

I think most everyone agrees with that (but we'll never admit it). We gotta have something to brag about from time to time.


GO JACKETS !!!!

You're absolutely right soxnole. What was I thinking. How about instead of some stats thrown out by some number cruncher, we look at hard facts. Sound good?

You said, and I quote directly (had to go back and read it just in case too):

"The ACC and SEC are signifigantly better than even the Big 12 and PAC 10.

Any way you measure it, the west coast gets more recognition BECAUSE of the geography.

I don't think the West Coast teams get more recognition as already pointed out by Bullwinkle citing the bracket pairing. But let's just take your word for it that they do. Do you think maybe they get more recognition because they're historically better???

Citing some of those hard facts I promised, lets look at the past National Championships and see how ACC/SEC teams have fared compared to those inferior PAC 10/Big 12 teams for giggles, huh?

Since 1947, the SEC has had 6 National Championship teams and 8 runner up teams. The ACC (not including Miami) have had 1 Champion and 6 runners up. So to recap, the ACC/SEC combined have had 7 National Championship teams and 14 2nd place teams. A total of 21 National Championship appearances. Hard to argue with that, right? A little bit more concrete than SoS in-conference, SoS non-conference, SoS on every other Tuesday, but only if it's not raining.....

Now on to the "inferior" PAC 10/Big 12 teams:

Since 1947, the Big 12 has had 10 National Champions and 13 2nd place teams (23 total National Championship appearances). The Pac 10 has had 24 National Champions and 14 2nd place teams (38 total National Championship appearances). Combined they account for 61 National Champion appearances...3 times the success of the ACC/SEC teams.

Shoot, for what it's worth, the University of Minnesota alone has had more success in National Championships (3) than all of the teams in the ACC combined (1). Now, to be fair, I'm not counting Miami in these numbers because they've only been in the ACC for 2 years but if you want to throw them into the mix, feel free. That would give the ACC a total of 5 NC and 7 RU.

Now, having said all that, I have to admit that I LOVE SEC baseball in general and would be the proudest dad in the world if my son gets a chance to play for an SEC school. But to make a blanket statement like "The ACC and SEC are signifigantly better than even the Big 12 and PAC 10" like you did...well, that was kind of silly. Maybe you meant to say this year???

I think the best conference is the LAC (if they had one).

Latin American Conference.

LOL

If the ACC is so dominant, how come an ACC team hasn't won the CWS since 1955???

Here are the guys that actually played for the Mets last night.

Player College

J. Reyes ss None
P. Lo Duca c Arizona State
C. Beltran cf None
C. Delgado 1b None
D. Wright 3b None
J. Valentin 2b None
B. Wagner Ferrum Va. (JUCO)
E. Chavez rf None
L. Milledge lf None
T. Glavine p None
C. Bradford p Southern Miss.
J. Franco ph None
P. Feliciano None
A. Heilman Notre Dame
C. Woodward Mt. San Antonio


Interesting.

Very interesting list!

By the way, talking about those 4 ACC teams. I know that every one of those teams have players whose parents post on this site!

Also know that a couple other world series teams have parents who post here.

That's kind of amazing, if you think about it.

PG,

How about this one - The Yankees starting lineup in their last game:


Player/College

J. Damon - None
M. Cabrera - None
D. Jeter - None
J. Giambi - Long Beach State
A. Rodriguez - None
J. Posada - Calhoun (AL) Community College
K. Stinnett - Seminole (OK) JUCO
R. Cano - None
B. Williams rf - Univ of Puerto Rico
A. Phillips 1b - Alabama

One more - just for fun and our Chicago White Sox fans:

Player/College

S. Podsednik - None
T. Iguchi - Aoyama Guakin (Japan)
J. Thome - Illinois Central
P. Konerko - None
A.J. Pierzynski - None
J. Crede - None
R. Gload - South Florida
A. Cintron - None
R. Mackowiak cf - South Suburban (ILL) Juco

Astros tonight:

1. C. Biggio, Seton Hall
2. M. Lamb, CS Fullerton
3. C. Burke, Tennessee
4. L. Berkman, Rice
5. J. Lane, USC
6. P. Wilson, None
7. B. Ausmus, Dartmouth
8. A. Everett, U South Carolina
M. Ensberg (injured DNS) USC
E. Bruntlett (DNS), Stanford
W. Taveras (DNS), None

Ok - one more - to even out the National and American league:

The Braves last night:


M. Giles - Grossmont (CA) JUCO
E. Renteria - None
C. Jones - None
A. Jones - None
J. Francoeur - None
M. Diaz - Florida State
B. Jordan - Richmond
K. Ray - None
M. McBride - None
T. Yates - Hawaii-Hilo
P. Orr - Galveston (TX) Community College
B. McCann - None
T. Pratt - None
W. Betemit - None
O. Villarreal - None
M. Remlinger - Dartmouth
J. Thomson - Blinn (TX) JUCO
C. Paronto - Massachusetts
A. LaRoche - Seminole (OK) JUCO

We are rolling now - with the Baltimore Orioles starting lineup:

Player/College

B. Roberts - South Carolina
M. Mora - None
M. Tejada - None
J. Gibbons - Cal State L.A.
L. Matos - None
R. Hernandez - None
C. Patterson - None
J. Lopez - None
K. Millar - Lamar
N. Markakis - Young Harris (GA) JUCO

Beezer....Jeeez!

You are a master at changing the tune!

My point and the thread is about 2006.

No school can touch USC with regard to NC domination.

THIS YEAR...the ACC and SEC were just a whole lot better....and the trend has been obvious over the last several years. I'm talking conference success here, not NC.

quote:

Originally posted by soxnole:
My point and the thread is about 2006.

That's all I was looking for. Not to pick but how do you measure conference success? Wouldn't it be through a NC? Otherwise, you're trying to use those random numbers again.

By the way, despite my rant, I'm actually rooting for an SEC team to win it all.

But I still think the WC teams are underrated.

284 D1 teams.

1 NC.

Pretty ridiculous measuring stick, considering a 2 loss format.

Will the Mets be failures if they lose to the Sox in the Series?

Not likely.

Was Texas a dismal failure this year?

Is Florida State a bum program because they have been to the CWS 18 times without winning it all?

I think not!

Wow....I'm not even sure how to respond to those comments.

Sad to say that in our current warped culture your nothing if not the champ.

Total BS!

Let's just say were all Passionate and Defensive about the Team's and League's that we support.

Anybody that say's that baseball is not America's pastime.

Well they just don't know what there Talking about.

Soxnole - I tried to let it go but you just have to keep chirping in. Just to clarify YOU'RE the one who threw it out there that Texas and FSU might be considered failures for not winning it all. So now I think you're the one who's twisting things around by blaming society.

And I'm sorry but your comment about the CWS being a rediculous format, is rediculous in itself. Can you tell me which college playoff/championship system gives a team more chances than this one? A team can lose 4 games along the way and still be crowned the National Champion. People have said "You've got to be hot/peaking at the right time to win the CWS". I think that applies to ANY championship at any level. And in almost any other sport, you lose one and you're done!

Just to reiterate, you made the comment that the ACC & SEC were significantly better (but never said how). There are many ways to argue that. If your position is to substantiate that by the fact that they comprise 5 of the 8 teams in the CWS this year, fine, nobody can argue with that. But you didn't say the ACC & SEC have more teams in the field, you just said they're better and titled the thread ACC Domination.

I never said the ACC and SEC weren't elite conferences. Rather my opinion is contrary to yours and I feel the Pac 10 & Big 12 are better overall historically and I cited some facts to back it up. That doesn't mean that FSU, Wake, UNC, etc aren't top notch programs with some of THE BEST players in the country.

Looking back through this thread, you've made several blanket statements without substantiating any of them. I just hope for your sake that an ACC team wins it all or your "ACC Domination" comment will be without merrit. If they do, I'll be one of the first to give them a (when I get back from our tourney).

Like somebody else posted, we have several parents around here of players involved in the CWS. I think that's extremely exciting and to be honest, is a much bigger deal to me than which conference they represent.