The sad thing is that I have noticed a huge dropoff in players from poor families at the Area Code Games. Not just black players, but Hispanic and White players too.
With the high cost travel teams taking over summer ball and many players just following the costly showcase circut, the player from a poor family is left at home and heads toward a different sport. Baseball is starting to be like golf......a rich mans game, and it shows in the dropoff of talent that I have seen in just 10 years.
In 1994-95 my starting lineup at the Area Code Games featured 2 white players, 1 Hispanic and 6 blacks. It was also far and away the best teams that I ever had. We just smoked everybody. My last year running the team was 2001 and I had 1 black player, and he was a reserve.
As far as the colleges go, I have very little respect for how they have recruited over the years. A poor kid who keeps his grades up can get full financial aid, which in many cases is much more than the scholarship money given to most players. They are just not being recruited. CC Sabathia was on my team, and he ended up signing a football scholarship to the "great football power Hawaii", because the college baseball powers were ignoring him.
When my son played AAU we made many a trip to Orlando for championship games...on several occasions we had afternoon showers that forced us inside...what was happening inside was AAU basketball...teams made up of nearly 95% black young men...now how did they get to Orlando...probably the same way we did...through sponsorship, donations, etc...
Here in Boston there has been a thrust to incorporate and make fields and facilities accessible to all who reside within the inner city...the choice has been made available to all...if the decision is made to play another sport other than baseball it is not done due to lack of attempts made by the Red Sox and many other organizations...personally I feel if the choice is made to play basketball, football, hockey, lacrosse, s****r etc what difference does it make...as long as the kids enjoy what they are doing and are not hanging on some street corner or taking drugs
Here in Boston there has been a thrust to incorporate and make fields and facilities accessible to all who reside within the inner city...the choice has been made available to all...if the decision is made to play another sport other than baseball it is not done due to lack of attempts made by the Red Sox and many other organizations...personally I feel if the choice is made to play basketball, football, hockey, lacrosse, s****r etc what difference does it make...as long as the kids enjoy what they are doing and are not hanging on some street corner or taking drugs
bbscout,
I would agree with that sentiment - and others expressed here.
With each passing year - it becomes more expensive to participate in the game.
IMO - Many excellent young players - very simply - cannot afford it. Of all races.
The old saying in business - "Money attracts money" - is an apt one for what is occurring on the youth baseball scene.
I would agree with that sentiment - and others expressed here.
With each passing year - it becomes more expensive to participate in the game.
IMO - Many excellent young players - very simply - cannot afford it. Of all races.
The old saying in business - "Money attracts money" - is an apt one for what is occurring on the youth baseball scene.
Hank Aaron (who has also been speaking to this subject) went through death threats during his run on Ruth's record. Joe Morgan was closer to the triumphs of both Robinson and Aaron (for example) than young players today, obviously.
Do we have a situation here wherein young black ballplayers are being passed over...or is it much more likely to be a money issue or that their interests are simply elsewhere?
Probably because of the respect Morgan has for the early black players, and for what Aaron went through himself, it's difficult to now see fewer black ballplayers following on the trail blazed. It was discrimination then; but that doesn't mean it is discrimination now.
This subject comes up a few times a ball season, with much righteous indignation. I know MLB has the RBI program, although I have no idea the extent or success of same. But doesn't Joe make a pretty good living, and even though Hank certainly wasn't playing in the multimillion dollar years, mightn't he have some pull with current bleck players who are (Bonds springs to mind)? What are they doing themselves to generate interest by and in young black athletes, as opposed to pointing fingers and bemoaning the situation?
If you don't like what you see, do something about it, Joe; you're of an age to remember the line about, "If you're not part of the solution...."
But I must say I get very confused by race and Hispanic players. American-born-black-players-without-parents-of-hispanic-origin are, evidently, the only players that can be called African Americans. Well, there's a limitation to the field. Ted Williams had a Mexican Mom, but was left off the recent Latin Legends Ballot, apparently for not being Latin enough. If being Latin means that a player originates from a country in the New World that was originally settled by the Spanish, isn't that a culture rather than a race? And in that culture might there be a range of races and mixes of races? So why is Edgar Rentaria Latin but not black? Wouldn't that be like my son (born in England, carries the passport), saying he's not white, he's English?
Seems like a lot of labels are being pasted on from a whole variety of sources.
Do we have a situation here wherein young black ballplayers are being passed over...or is it much more likely to be a money issue or that their interests are simply elsewhere?
Probably because of the respect Morgan has for the early black players, and for what Aaron went through himself, it's difficult to now see fewer black ballplayers following on the trail blazed. It was discrimination then; but that doesn't mean it is discrimination now.
This subject comes up a few times a ball season, with much righteous indignation. I know MLB has the RBI program, although I have no idea the extent or success of same. But doesn't Joe make a pretty good living, and even though Hank certainly wasn't playing in the multimillion dollar years, mightn't he have some pull with current bleck players who are (Bonds springs to mind)? What are they doing themselves to generate interest by and in young black athletes, as opposed to pointing fingers and bemoaning the situation?
If you don't like what you see, do something about it, Joe; you're of an age to remember the line about, "If you're not part of the solution...."
But I must say I get very confused by race and Hispanic players. American-born-black-players-without-parents-of-hispanic-origin are, evidently, the only players that can be called African Americans. Well, there's a limitation to the field. Ted Williams had a Mexican Mom, but was left off the recent Latin Legends Ballot, apparently for not being Latin enough. If being Latin means that a player originates from a country in the New World that was originally settled by the Spanish, isn't that a culture rather than a race? And in that culture might there be a range of races and mixes of races? So why is Edgar Rentaria Latin but not black? Wouldn't that be like my son (born in England, carries the passport), saying he's not white, he's English?
Seems like a lot of labels are being pasted on from a whole variety of sources.
quote:I don't think it is deliberate, but it is happening due the lack of opportunities for young Afro-Americans to get a chance to play this game.
With basketball a kid can go down to a local rec with hoops and shoot for hours...by himself. With baseball you that is not so easy. Most fields don't even allow youngsters to use them without permission, pay fees, or belong to some organization that has access priveleges. The open field, for young Afro-Americans is not a realistic option.
I have to take issue with this as this certainly isn’t the case in my area of North Carolina. Our town, just north of Charlotte, has 7 public baseball fields that are open for use by anyone whenever they are not scheduled by a league and that is a good bit of the time. Three of these fields are across from sections of the town that are a majority black & latino. We also have batting cages that are unlocked with L screens (for safety) that were paid for by the local league. The local league has scholarships set up to support players that do not have the financial resources to pay to play – no matter what the race. The local league also provides equipment, including some used bats, and catchers gear. Our percentage of blacks participating has dropped for years. Our percentage of latinos participating is on a slow rise. White participation is also on a slow rise. The three fields and cages that I mentioned earlier, I use often to work out with my son. I have yet to see black children or adults practicing or playing pickup baseball. I do run into other white dads. I also watch pickup latino games.
There are HAS to be something other than money and opportunity at work here because it certainly isn’t a lack of facilities or funds.
We have a large immigrant mexican population that mostly works in the construction industry. On the weekends they use 90' fields all over the place for pick-up games and adult leagues, all day long.
Interesting point on the labeling of players and society Orlando! When does a race line become a cultural line or the inverse.
During game four of the W.S. when introducing the Latino Legends team, Edward James Olmos introduced Alex Rodriguez as "from the Dominican Republic." I for one know that ARod was born in NY making him a US citizen. Sure he may be a latino culturally and racially, but shouldn't we also have an all Italian Legends team or an Irish legends team? If we are going to create all-star teams based on DESCENT, we should included all forms. I don't think we needed to make a cutural/racial spectacle out of labeling players. Nationality is a different subject and more easily guidelined.
I wonder what the ramifications would be if an all Anglo Legends team were displayed?
There have been many latin players that have enriched the game of baseball since they began to play at the grand stage of the MLB, but why do we still have to create these distinctions between cultural/racial/ethnical groups? Why can't they just be great baseball players and leave it at that. The labeling just expands the race/culture/ethnic gap.
JMO and sorry for rambling.
During game four of the W.S. when introducing the Latino Legends team, Edward James Olmos introduced Alex Rodriguez as "from the Dominican Republic." I for one know that ARod was born in NY making him a US citizen. Sure he may be a latino culturally and racially, but shouldn't we also have an all Italian Legends team or an Irish legends team? If we are going to create all-star teams based on DESCENT, we should included all forms. I don't think we needed to make a cutural/racial spectacle out of labeling players. Nationality is a different subject and more easily guidelined.
I wonder what the ramifications would be if an all Anglo Legends team were displayed?
There have been many latin players that have enriched the game of baseball since they began to play at the grand stage of the MLB, but why do we still have to create these distinctions between cultural/racial/ethnical groups? Why can't they just be great baseball players and leave it at that. The labeling just expands the race/culture/ethnic gap.
JMO and sorry for rambling.
I'll have to admit there have been some thought provoking opinions expressed here that may well have changed my views
until now, whether coaching or watching I had always just seen a group of kids/guys playing a great game, learning, and having fun
but - in the future I'll prolly be viewing them by their race, figuring ratios - then feel compelled to run some "majorities" off and/or intimidate some "minorities" into playing to achieve a better balance
Thanks - -
- - ya set me back 50 yrs - - - & I'm only 52
OK - OK - - I'm 54 1/2, but feel 49 1/2 . . . . sometimes . . . .
.
until now, whether coaching or watching I had always just seen a group of kids/guys playing a great game, learning, and having fun
but - in the future I'll prolly be viewing them by their race, figuring ratios - then feel compelled to run some "majorities" off and/or intimidate some "minorities" into playing to achieve a better balance
Thanks - -
- - ya set me back 50 yrs - - - & I'm only 52OK - OK - - I'm 54 1/2, but feel 49 1/2 . . . . sometimes . . . .
.
SON
Sad to say we have a country that now has to be what they term "politically correct" , whatever that may mean--I am still trying to get a true definition
My sons grew up in a town that was very diverse--I had more non white kids in the house, boys and girls, than white kids during their HS years
and they always said thank you when they left--
I also ran the youth leagues in town and we made sure that any youngster with a family/financial situation and needed an "assist" we gave it them-- and it had nothing to do with race---we felt that the youngster need not be penalized because of his parents situation(s)
I think too many people try to find excuses--
Take a look at our roster for Jupiter and see the diversity we have and we are not unlike other travel teams-- we want the best players and we strive to make it work. no matter how-- I am sure the other teams do as well
Stop making excuses for it all-- if a kid wants it to happen it can happen---all too much of this ethnic talk is a COP OUT and it only makes good copy for the press
Sad to say we have a country that now has to be what they term "politically correct" , whatever that may mean--I am still trying to get a true definition
My sons grew up in a town that was very diverse--I had more non white kids in the house, boys and girls, than white kids during their HS years
and they always said thank you when they left--
I also ran the youth leagues in town and we made sure that any youngster with a family/financial situation and needed an "assist" we gave it them-- and it had nothing to do with race---we felt that the youngster need not be penalized because of his parents situation(s)
I think too many people try to find excuses--
Take a look at our roster for Jupiter and see the diversity we have and we are not unlike other travel teams-- we want the best players and we strive to make it work. no matter how-- I am sure the other teams do as well
Stop making excuses for it all-- if a kid wants it to happen it can happen---all too much of this ethnic talk is a COP OUT and it only makes good copy for the press
Bee
BEE
When they wear our uniform they are all College Select Players and nothing else---they are part of a team which is the way it should be
When they wear our uniform they are all College Select Players and nothing else---they are part of a team which is the way it should be
Bee and TR,
It's sad to say that a lot of the political correctness that is trying to take us away from racism (by making us more sensitive) is the one thing that is inspiring the divide between races and cultures.
Luckily, I have had the priveledge of playing on teams where the majority (no pun intended) of minority ballplayers view themselves as baseball players first, not as a Black/latino/minority when on the field.
It's sad to say that a lot of the political correctness that is trying to take us away from racism (by making us more sensitive) is the one thing that is inspiring the divide between races and cultures.
Luckily, I have had the priveledge of playing on teams where the majority (no pun intended) of minority ballplayers view themselves as baseball players first, not as a Black/latino/minority when on the field.
son
and that is exactly how it should be
and that is exactly how it should be
there IS hope if someone so orange could also be so wise 
so, S-o-Moc, could ya possibly wise your way into a DIFFERENT
super regional in '06??
tanks in advance,
B>
.
so, S-o-Moc, could ya possibly wise your way into a DIFFERENT
super regional in '06??
tanks in advance,
B>
.
Is it possible this racial thing involving baseball is different from one part of the country to the next?
For example... We see such a large number of people of various ethnic backgrounds playing baseball in Florida vs other parts of the country. Other places we go... it doesn't seem to be quite the same.
Does it bother latin people when someone says...
"we need to go get a latin american recruit because they are the best shortstops!"
Or do they see that statement as a source of pride and truthfulness?
What is the difference between the above statement and others that are said to be racial issues?
Just curious!
For example... We see such a large number of people of various ethnic backgrounds playing baseball in Florida vs other parts of the country. Other places we go... it doesn't seem to be quite the same.
Does it bother latin people when someone says...
"we need to go get a latin american recruit because they are the best shortstops!"
Or do they see that statement as a source of pride and truthfulness?
What is the difference between the above statement and others that are said to be racial issues?
Just curious!
pG
I take it as a compliment to my race and background --not a slap in the face
I take it as a compliment to my race and background --not a slap in the face
The above post is just an example. Not necessarily making the claim that Latin Americans are the only good shortstops! People can judge that for themselves!
Or can they????
Maybe they will need to keep their opinions to themselves!!! Or face the racial crowd!!!
A person would have to be hidden in a cave to not realize there exists racial problems and unfairness.
Shouldn't we get rid of all the REAL racists rather than pick apart isolated comments made by the good people.
By the way, the football coach at Air Force has a son who played professional baseball.
Or can they????
Maybe they will need to keep their opinions to themselves!!! Or face the racial crowd!!!
A person would have to be hidden in a cave to not realize there exists racial problems and unfairness.
Shouldn't we get rid of all the REAL racists rather than pick apart isolated comments made by the good people.
By the way, the football coach at Air Force has a son who played professional baseball.
I gotta go with what MOM taught us - - - -
always "favor" your own race
THE "HUMAN RACE"
it IS sometimes difficult to discern tho - - -
.
always "favor" your own race
THE "HUMAN RACE"
it IS sometimes difficult to discern tho - - -
.
bbscout,
Don't know if you followed CC Sabathia this year, but I believe this was a break out year for him. He was getting crushed early in the year throwing mostly 97 mph fastballs. It seemed like all of a sudden the light bulb went off, he dropped his velocity to about 94 but became more of a pitcher and became almost unhittable. I guess it has worked out well for him even though all those college guys weren't going crazy over him when he was in hs.
Don't know if you followed CC Sabathia this year, but I believe this was a break out year for him. He was getting crushed early in the year throwing mostly 97 mph fastballs. It seemed like all of a sudden the light bulb went off, he dropped his velocity to about 94 but became more of a pitcher and became almost unhittable. I guess it has worked out well for him even though all those college guys weren't going crazy over him when he was in hs.
Bee-
I agree that it would be wise to avoid Tech this year in the Super Regional
We can't get lucky two years in a row, can we? 
. But luckily we will have a rematch during the regular season, maybe a preview of what's to come!
See ya at the beach!!
I agree that it would be wise to avoid Tech this year in the Super Regional
We can't get lucky two years in a row, can we? . But luckily we will have a rematch during the regular season, maybe a preview of what's to come!See ya at the beach!!
The NBA is a sport that is dominated by black players from the inner cities of America. I don't think anyone will argue that!
Then came the many foriegn players from European countries who have done well in the League. That is thew new trend.
I live in the farming (mostly rural, majority white) state of Iowa. Could someone explain why at least 6 "white" players who went to high school in our small state were on NBA rosters last year?
If rural America can produce NBA players, why can't inner cities produce MLB players?
How can rural Iowa white kids make it in the predomently black NBA? Is it because of no baseball facilities? Or is it because of all those playgrounds for basketball players. Or is it just coincidental?
Does it have anything whatsoever to do with race and opportunity?
Then came the many foriegn players from European countries who have done well in the League. That is thew new trend.
I live in the farming (mostly rural, majority white) state of Iowa. Could someone explain why at least 6 "white" players who went to high school in our small state were on NBA rosters last year?
If rural America can produce NBA players, why can't inner cities produce MLB players?
How can rural Iowa white kids make it in the predomently black NBA? Is it because of no baseball facilities? Or is it because of all those playgrounds for basketball players. Or is it just coincidental?
Does it have anything whatsoever to do with race and opportunity?
A quiz for all. At the start of the 2005 season, how many black american pitchers were in the starting rotation on a major league team? Can you name them?
C.C. Sabathia...
Dewon Brazelton?
I'm going only on memory, but the list is extremely low.
Willis and Jerome Walton in the NL, Shawn Chacon? Or is he hispanic?
Dewon Brazelton?
I'm going only on memory, but the list is extremely low.
Willis and Jerome Walton in the NL, Shawn Chacon? Or is he hispanic?
Don't want to simplify an obviously complex situation.....but.....in our society today.....are not the opportunities to participate in all sports are there for all kids? That said.....is it not also possible that kids make choices as to what sport(s) they will participate in for many reasons? To include: Parental influence, peer influence, natural talent, ease of participation, and a simple love of swinging a bat versus a sinking a basket?
I'm an old lady who goes way back to the days before Title IX.....where I went to high school...... females.....white, black, hispanic.... we had no organized sports to participate in..... We went everyday to PE class, for 4 years, and did exercises....I knew those drills so well.....that now......40 years later..... I can still do them.....but not quite so fast and limber.....well actually.....I avoid all exercise.....but... 40 years later I still wish I had the opportunity to compete in the long jump.....
Opportunity.....I see that as the issue....if we are providing that....in our schools.....our Little Leagues, YMCA's.....Boys and Girls Clubs....well.....kids will make their choices.....based on many external factors. We may question those factors, but certainly if we as a society are providing the chance to participate in organized youth sports....to all children.....then....where is the problem?
I apologize to the posters who have come out against Tile IX in other threads.....but you know.....if we as a society fail to take care of our inequities......Uncle Sam will do so.....and that said.....I don't think he'll be stepping into the lack of blacks in baseball.....
I'm an old lady who goes way back to the days before Title IX.....where I went to high school...... females.....white, black, hispanic.... we had no organized sports to participate in..... We went everyday to PE class, for 4 years, and did exercises....I knew those drills so well.....that now......40 years later..... I can still do them.....but not quite so fast and limber.....well actually.....I avoid all exercise.....but... 40 years later I still wish I had the opportunity to compete in the long jump.....
Opportunity.....I see that as the issue....if we are providing that....in our schools.....our Little Leagues, YMCA's.....Boys and Girls Clubs....well.....kids will make their choices.....based on many external factors. We may question those factors, but certainly if we as a society are providing the chance to participate in organized youth sports....to all children.....then....where is the problem?
I apologize to the posters who have come out against Tile IX in other threads.....but you know.....if we as a society fail to take care of our inequities......Uncle Sam will do so.....and that said.....I don't think he'll be stepping into the lack of blacks in baseball.....
It is about choice.
Why do some start their discussion with "I hope people dont take this the weong way"
There is a myriad of reasons why the young AA does not participate in youth baseball...some of it is financial, some of it is peer influence and some of it is a lack of parental guidance to the sport. (it is difficult to encourage one's relative to play baseball if they have never played)
I love baseball and I don't like to lose an athlete to another sport. Although, this generation is being led to believe they all will be the next Michael Jordan or Iverson, in truth, most won't be able to go beyond HS. Cameron Maybin's Dad and I had a long discussion about this. Cameron is a pretty good basketball player and he wanted to be like his cousin (first round pick in the NBA draft). His Dad said, " Cameron, you are 6'2"!.... where do you think you will have a better chance of playing professionally?" I think Cameron made the right choice.
There are many Cameron Maybin type athletes walking the HS campus's, that have never been exposed to baseball.
Some people find that the "playing fields are equal", so there shouldn't be a boost to encourage the participation...and that's fine! Some people believe it is not...and that's fine, too.
It's not a topic that everyone believes in, nor want to spend their time or money on. I understand that. But for those that do, it is a complex problem that will not be improved by offering a scholarship to the one or two players that join your association. I'm sure most of your boys started to play baseball because of your love of the game...they tasted success and developed their own love. Who's teaching them the love? Their mothers? their brothers? their uncles?
I love baseball and everything about it. I love the life lessons that it teaches a young man; Teamwork, discipline, committment. But there is another aspect of baseball that I love which you can't find in any other sport. "It ain't over til it's over".
I'm sure someone will reply "nonsense" or "just another bleeding heart liberal", but those that I know and respect on this board like itsinthegame, Prepster and HiHard know me and know that is not the case. It's just a subject that I believe in and would like to see improved.
I love baseball and I don't like to lose an athlete to another sport. Although, this generation is being led to believe they all will be the next Michael Jordan or Iverson, in truth, most won't be able to go beyond HS. Cameron Maybin's Dad and I had a long discussion about this. Cameron is a pretty good basketball player and he wanted to be like his cousin (first round pick in the NBA draft). His Dad said, " Cameron, you are 6'2"!.... where do you think you will have a better chance of playing professionally?" I think Cameron made the right choice.
There are many Cameron Maybin type athletes walking the HS campus's, that have never been exposed to baseball.
Some people find that the "playing fields are equal", so there shouldn't be a boost to encourage the participation...and that's fine! Some people believe it is not...and that's fine, too.
It's not a topic that everyone believes in, nor want to spend their time or money on. I understand that. But for those that do, it is a complex problem that will not be improved by offering a scholarship to the one or two players that join your association. I'm sure most of your boys started to play baseball because of your love of the game...they tasted success and developed their own love. Who's teaching them the love? Their mothers? their brothers? their uncles?
I love baseball and everything about it. I love the life lessons that it teaches a young man; Teamwork, discipline, committment. But there is another aspect of baseball that I love which you can't find in any other sport. "It ain't over til it's over".
I'm sure someone will reply "nonsense" or "just another bleeding heart liberal", but those that I know and respect on this board like itsinthegame, Prepster and HiHard know me and know that is not the case. It's just a subject that I believe in and would like to see improved.
I dont want to simplify the issue - but just some thoughts from the two areas of the country I have lived in.
If you want to begin a high school or collegiate career in - (lets use the big three - football, basketball and baseball) - here is what I have seen.
Football - play on the high school team. Maybe go to a camp or two. Thats about it. Not much in the way of equipment or travel - as most is supplied by your high school team. Recruiting - alot done by viewing tapes of the players.
Basketball - little bit more on the travel. Equipment - a pair of shorts and some sneakers.
Go to some camps - yes. And summer leagues - yes. Cost - not much. Also - alot of recruiting (at least the initial part - done by viewing video.)
Baseball - Equipment. Need I say more. We got $300 bats just for starters.
Travel - LOL. If you are on an AAU or select team - be prepared to spend alot of money.
Cost to be seen by recruiters. I dont even want to think about it. LOL
From my perspective - baseball has gotten to be a very expensive proposition relative to other sports.
That will - without a doubt - eliminate many kids - regardless of their heritage.
Looking at it another way - I put myself in other's less fortunate shoes for a moment. If I had very little money - I would simply not have been able to afford what both of my boys have experienced the last 8 years or so.
Its that simple.
Baseball - particularly on the more competitive level nowadays - is an expensive proposition.
To think that will not have ramifications as to choice of sport is not very realistic.
How do you fix it at this point - I dont know.
Is money the only issue - probably not.
But the beginning of any solution is an objective recognition of the problem(s) - whether we want to admit it or not.
P.S. - And then - when you are all done and if you have a special talent - here is what you can look forward to as far as college money.
Football - 100%
Basketball - 100%
Baseball - you will be competing for a few extra bucks against the badminton team.
JMHO
If you want to begin a high school or collegiate career in - (lets use the big three - football, basketball and baseball) - here is what I have seen.
Football - play on the high school team. Maybe go to a camp or two. Thats about it. Not much in the way of equipment or travel - as most is supplied by your high school team. Recruiting - alot done by viewing tapes of the players.
Basketball - little bit more on the travel. Equipment - a pair of shorts and some sneakers.
Go to some camps - yes. And summer leagues - yes. Cost - not much. Also - alot of recruiting (at least the initial part - done by viewing video.)
Baseball - Equipment. Need I say more. We got $300 bats just for starters.
Travel - LOL. If you are on an AAU or select team - be prepared to spend alot of money.
Cost to be seen by recruiters. I dont even want to think about it. LOL
From my perspective - baseball has gotten to be a very expensive proposition relative to other sports.
That will - without a doubt - eliminate many kids - regardless of their heritage.
Looking at it another way - I put myself in other's less fortunate shoes for a moment. If I had very little money - I would simply not have been able to afford what both of my boys have experienced the last 8 years or so.
Its that simple.
Baseball - particularly on the more competitive level nowadays - is an expensive proposition.
To think that will not have ramifications as to choice of sport is not very realistic.
How do you fix it at this point - I dont know.
Is money the only issue - probably not.
But the beginning of any solution is an objective recognition of the problem(s) - whether we want to admit it or not.
P.S. - And then - when you are all done and if you have a special talent - here is what you can look forward to as far as college money.
Football - 100%
Basketball - 100%
Baseball - you will be competing for a few extra bucks against the badminton team.
JMHO
Whenever this topic turns to scholarship opportunities and the prevailing wisdom that inner city youth choose hoops due to the D1 bounty that awaits them, I .
I've long felt that organized basketball (AAU etc) have long dangled this carrot over kids and their families without anyone in the hinterlands pointing out that the emperor has no clothes.
Here's the reality:
* There are approximately 325 D1 basketball schools in the country
* They have a maximum of 13 scholarships
* As a head count sport, all scholarships are full ride, no partial awards are allowed
* The typical school signs 2-3 HS players per year
* The approximate number of graduating HS scholarship recipients is therefore in the area of 650-900 annually (I'm ignoring the JUCO signees who reduce this number)
* Attendance at high level D1 sanctioned recruiting tournaments often exceeds 500 TEAMS.
The notion that basketball is a better source of college funding for the incredibly vast majority of players based on D1 numbers is certainly ridiculous, but the masses are fed this line daily.
.I've long felt that organized basketball (AAU etc) have long dangled this carrot over kids and their families without anyone in the hinterlands pointing out that the emperor has no clothes.
Here's the reality:
* There are approximately 325 D1 basketball schools in the country
* They have a maximum of 13 scholarships
* As a head count sport, all scholarships are full ride, no partial awards are allowed
* The typical school signs 2-3 HS players per year
* The approximate number of graduating HS scholarship recipients is therefore in the area of 650-900 annually (I'm ignoring the JUCO signees who reduce this number)
* Attendance at high level D1 sanctioned recruiting tournaments often exceeds 500 TEAMS.
The notion that basketball is a better source of college funding for the incredibly vast majority of players based on D1 numbers is certainly ridiculous, but the masses are fed this line daily.
rbinaz,
Agree with you.
Unfortunately - many of the masses are dead broke.
So here is the choice
Spend very little money - for the chance of getting a free ride in basketball (and football) - or - spend alot of money for very little baseball money.
If I were dead broke - the choice would be a no-brainer.
The powers that be in hoops know this perspective all too well - and as expected - play it to their advantage. IMO.
Agree with you.
Unfortunately - many of the masses are dead broke.
So here is the choice
Spend very little money - for the chance of getting a free ride in basketball (and football) - or - spend alot of money for very little baseball money.
If I were dead broke - the choice would be a no-brainer.
The powers that be in hoops know this perspective all too well - and as expected - play it to their advantage. IMO.
When did baseball become so expensive? And why? I look at some of the Latin players in the majors/ I wonder how many of them paid 300 dollara for a bat?
ADD to that the cultural, regional, and family financial aspects of each kid and my head is spinningquote:by B>: until now, whether coaching or watching I had always just seen a group of kids/guys playing a great game, learning, and having fun
but - in the future I'll prolly be viewing them by their race, figuring ratios - then feel compelled to run some "majorities" off and/or intimidate some "minorities" into playing to achieve a better balance
a choice you overlooked -quote:by it's: So here is the choice
Spend very little money - for the chance of getting a free ride in basketball (and football) - or - spend alot of money for very little baseball money.
it doesn't take much wealth to teach a kid how to "crack a book" if indications are that college money will be tight in their family
.
Bee,
What does that comment have to do with the subject at hand? Noone was talking about different success levels academically.
We are talking sports.
For arguments sake - lets assume all athletes in my post are good students.
Every single word I posted stands.
The fact is - the decision for a talented athlete - from a family with little or no money - is a nobrainer.
There are great potential rewards for little financial risk in other sports.
That is not the case with baseball.
Unless you are a top round draft pick. IMO.
What does that comment have to do with the subject at hand? Noone was talking about different success levels academically.
We are talking sports.
For arguments sake - lets assume all athletes in my post are good students.
Every single word I posted stands.
The fact is - the decision for a talented athlete - from a family with little or no money - is a nobrainer.
There are great potential rewards for little financial risk in other sports.
That is not the case with baseball.
Unless you are a top round draft pick. IMO.
In the state I live in...
Number of college athletic scholarships in the three major sports.
#1 Football
#2 Baseball
#3 Basketball
Walk ons earning a scholarship
#1 Football
#2 Basketball
#3 Baseball
The chances are very low of anyone outside the very most talented getting a Division I basketball scholarship.
Baseball - Most DI State colleges will be loaded with in state players.
Basketball - Many DI colleges recruit outside the state.
At the DI level there are many more opportunities for some type of baseball scholarship than there are for basketball scholarships.
To me it seems a DI basketball scholarship is very unrealistic for most young people. Wealthy or poor!
People without the physical size required for football and basketball are playing DI baseball.
I agree with "Will". The Dominican Republic is poverty stricken! How many Dominicans are playing DI basketball, let alone on NBA rosters? If the reason for more African Americans becoming interested in basketball is because of the cost, why wouldn't that be true everywhere.
I think its just a matter of what's most popular in your neigborhhod. Basketball is very popular in the inner cities of America!
IMO Love for a sport usually starts at a very young age. Baseball is not expensive for most 8 or 9 year olds.
Maybe this interest and popularity of football and basketball has to do with the media as much as anything else. College Football, College Basketball, College Baseball - What does the media tell us is most important?
Number of college athletic scholarships in the three major sports.
#1 Football
#2 Baseball
#3 Basketball
Walk ons earning a scholarship
#1 Football
#2 Basketball
#3 Baseball
The chances are very low of anyone outside the very most talented getting a Division I basketball scholarship.
Baseball - Most DI State colleges will be loaded with in state players.
Basketball - Many DI colleges recruit outside the state.
At the DI level there are many more opportunities for some type of baseball scholarship than there are for basketball scholarships.
To me it seems a DI basketball scholarship is very unrealistic for most young people. Wealthy or poor!
People without the physical size required for football and basketball are playing DI baseball.
I agree with "Will". The Dominican Republic is poverty stricken! How many Dominicans are playing DI basketball, let alone on NBA rosters? If the reason for more African Americans becoming interested in basketball is because of the cost, why wouldn't that be true everywhere.
I think its just a matter of what's most popular in your neigborhhod. Basketball is very popular in the inner cities of America!
IMO Love for a sport usually starts at a very young age. Baseball is not expensive for most 8 or 9 year olds.
Maybe this interest and popularity of football and basketball has to do with the media as much as anything else. College Football, College Basketball, College Baseball - What does the media tell us is most important?
by it's: "Spend very little money - for the chance of getting a free ride in basketball (and football)"
it's, I was responding to your comment regarding choosing a route for MAX college aid
the kid hits the books, gets academic aid & plays any dam sport he likes
or did I misunderstand??
it's, I was responding to your comment regarding choosing a route for MAX college aid
the kid hits the books, gets academic aid & plays any dam sport he likes
or did I misunderstand??
Bee,
I think it is a complicated issue IMO.
I also think that money plays a very major role in the issue. Like it does in just about everything else in this country.
I have no idea about the Dominican thing.
I have also not talked about education as part of the process.
All I do know - from what I have seen in 2 different parts of the country - is that baseball has gotten to be very expensive for kids that are in their teens and that want to pursue baseball at a higher level.
Much more expensive than football and basketball - with far less financial reward at the end of the journey. Regardless of the odds of attaining that reward.
If you were a great athlete (and a solid student) - and could choose a sport at a top school - which one would you pick?
Would you go for the 100% scholly in football or basketball - or would you fight for crumbs with the rowing team and play baseball?
Please dont get me wrong - I love baseball - and am glad my kids love it too. But that is easy for me to say - because I dont have to worry about paying the rent next week.
I think it is a complicated issue IMO.
I also think that money plays a very major role in the issue. Like it does in just about everything else in this country.
I have no idea about the Dominican thing.
I have also not talked about education as part of the process.
All I do know - from what I have seen in 2 different parts of the country - is that baseball has gotten to be very expensive for kids that are in their teens and that want to pursue baseball at a higher level.
Much more expensive than football and basketball - with far less financial reward at the end of the journey. Regardless of the odds of attaining that reward.
If you were a great athlete (and a solid student) - and could choose a sport at a top school - which one would you pick?
Would you go for the 100% scholly in football or basketball - or would you fight for crumbs with the rowing team and play baseball?
Please dont get me wrong - I love baseball - and am glad my kids love it too. But that is easy for me to say - because I dont have to worry about paying the rent next week.
it's - - talk about complicating things
a thought that I maybe should bring up on a new thread, but - here goes - -
what are you thoughts about YOUR/OUR Mets firing or re-assigning a dozen of their scouts?
and the new scouting director?
also IS the recent popularity of summer/fall/wimter showcases and high profile tourneys changing how MLB teams structure their scouting departments - - IE - why do teams need all the area scouts/associate scouts they had in the past if other people (PG, T1, etc) can (probably more efficiently) IDENTIFY, EVALUATE, & GATHER talent into ONE place where a cross-checker/supervisor/GM can evaluate??
maybe PG or scout can comment
bump it to a new topic if you like
a thought that I maybe should bring up on a new thread, but - here goes - -
what are you thoughts about YOUR/OUR Mets firing or re-assigning a dozen of their scouts?
and the new scouting director?
also IS the recent popularity of summer/fall/wimter showcases and high profile tourneys changing how MLB teams structure their scouting departments - - IE - why do teams need all the area scouts/associate scouts they had in the past if other people (PG, T1, etc) can (probably more efficiently) IDENTIFY, EVALUATE, & GATHER talent into ONE place where a cross-checker/supervisor/GM can evaluate??
maybe PG or scout can comment
bump it to a new topic if you like
I don't believe anyone is going to change their opinions about the reasons why Black
Americans have a lesser representation in the game of baseball-through all levels-than the other two major sports. For what it's worth I think everyone has valid reasons, but I do believe some hold more weight than others. I have been tempted to weigh in on the subject with my "unofficial" reason as to why this is but I would just be reiteration what others have already said.
However, someone made a point about the "solution to the problem" I and started thinking, "What problem?". First of all, there will always be discrepancies in race
ratios in all sports, why does it HAVE to be a PROBLEM that needs a solution?
My middle child/son loved the game of basketball and tried out his freshman year(never once thought about getting a scholarship or playing in the NBA). In a predominately white school he was cut from the team-11 of the 12 players were black. He knew it would be a long shot to make freshman team and that he did not have the talent the other players had. He was disappointed but understood that he would have to get better to make the team. Resentful? Only that he got his Dad's jumping ability.
He basically gave up the idea about playing on the HS team his Soph and Jr year but played pickup games in the evenings and weekends and actually improved
his ability and by the fall of his senior year he announced that he was going out for the basktball team again. Much to our amazement the coach picked him as the 12th
player and he lettered this past year. His Mom and I were never prouder.
Was he a star? No. Will he play in college? No. Do we see it as a problem that he will not be
playing in college or the NBA? Absolutely not. He will focus on academics and baseball and be thankful he had the opportunity be on his HS team.
Now, should we start a program to develop more white players to get involved in basketball at a younger age and try to encourage them to "love" the game so that we
as a society can bring the ratio(whites to blacks) back to where it's "supposed" to
be? Just so we can correct a "problem" that doesn't exist? IMO.
Americans have a lesser representation in the game of baseball-through all levels-than the other two major sports. For what it's worth I think everyone has valid reasons, but I do believe some hold more weight than others. I have been tempted to weigh in on the subject with my "unofficial" reason as to why this is but I would just be reiteration what others have already said.
However, someone made a point about the "solution to the problem" I and started thinking, "What problem?". First of all, there will always be discrepancies in race
ratios in all sports, why does it HAVE to be a PROBLEM that needs a solution?
My middle child/son loved the game of basketball and tried out his freshman year(never once thought about getting a scholarship or playing in the NBA). In a predominately white school he was cut from the team-11 of the 12 players were black. He knew it would be a long shot to make freshman team and that he did not have the talent the other players had. He was disappointed but understood that he would have to get better to make the team. Resentful? Only that he got his Dad's jumping ability.
He basically gave up the idea about playing on the HS team his Soph and Jr year but played pickup games in the evenings and weekends and actually improvedhis ability and by the fall of his senior year he announced that he was going out for the basktball team again. Much to our amazement the coach picked him as the 12th
player and he lettered this past year. His Mom and I were never prouder.
Was he a star? No. Will he play in college? No. Do we see it as a problem that he will not beplaying in college or the NBA? Absolutely not. He will focus on academics and baseball and be thankful he had the opportunity be on his HS team.
Now, should we start a program to develop more white players to get involved in basketball at a younger age and try to encourage them to "love" the game so that we
as a society can bring the ratio(whites to blacks) back to where it's "supposed" to
be? Just so we can correct a "problem" that doesn't exist? IMO.
Bee,
IMO - It would be interesting to hear bbscout's or PG's comments concerning if - and how - showcases/high profile tourneys are changing MLB scouting tactics. I personally havent a clue.
As to the Mets maneuvers - LOL - All I can say is that I hope whatever they do improves the club. They certainly need help.
IMO - It would be interesting to hear bbscout's or PG's comments concerning if - and how - showcases/high profile tourneys are changing MLB scouting tactics. I personally havent a clue.
As to the Mets maneuvers - LOL - All I can say is that I hope whatever they do improves the club. They certainly need help.
quote:Originally posted by Moc1:
However, someone made a point about the "solution to the problem" I and started thinking, "What problem?". First of all, there will always be discrepancies in race
ratios in all sports, why does it HAVE to be a PROBLEM that needs a solution?
Moc,
That was me - and I was straying from the original topic. My fault.
The problem I was referring to concerned players of all races and heritages.
I gave my opinion that the increasing cost of playing baseball at higher levels is contributing to the lack of participation for youngsters whose familes dont have much money.
Sorry for the confusion.