agent question?

Newcomer.....do you have a PM or an email. I can definately help you with your question.

A parent cannot hire an agent without giving up the college eligibility. They can use an advisor, providing no contract or pay is involved. If the player gets drafted and signs, then the advisor becomes an agent, a contract is signed, and money will change hands in the form of a percentage of the signing bonus as a commision. That is probably what happened here. So the technical term would be an advisor. The parent should be careful not to call him an agent.

Whats the difference? The advisor only will advise for a % of the signing bonus. SO agent or advisor they both represent the same person. The advisor, in ALL cases, will answer any and all questions about the draft. BUT, he doesn't do it for free! He will expect a % of between 3 and 6% of the signing bonus. He will advise you, the family, on where your son may fit in with the draft. He will talk to scouts to learn this information and in doing so that would then qualify him as an agent. Which in turn compromises your son's NCAA elgibility.

Just ask the scout yourself.

and isn't that what we all want?to talk to a scout about our son.how cool is that?

Vance

What category do you fall into or thru?--- I have my doubts about what you know or do not know---

20dad

my son and I were talked to by a proscout when my son was a freshman in HS-- how cool,was that???--I even had to pay for the coffee--now that is cool!!!!

TRHIT, why the hangup with what I know or don't know? What I say is fact! An advisor is the same person as an agent. Are you saying your going to have an advsor and then at draft time your going to switch to someone else and refer to him as an agent? PAAAAAAAAA LEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE

TRHIT, as I'm sure your one of those people that believe scouts are bad and that the agent is the salesman and has the family and players best interest at heart and that scouts make a big bonus when they draft a player.

TRHIT, what I have are NO DOUBTS at all that you know absoulutely nothing about the topic of this thread.

newcomer
in todays draft unless your a stud you will get slot money ,not much to negotiate.read the book liscence to deal great read about agents.as with most everything in life ask a question many different answers.and they all have some merit.rule one here on hsbbw.if you have a question ask it.then you'll see they many different sides to things.and that can help more than you think.
tr
over the years a few scouts have watched my son play,i'm always surprised they watch my son.and it is cool.

VANCE


An advisor is NOT and agent---

as for why I question you I think you info is in many instances misleading if not correct

EXAMPLE: by claiming,as you do,that an advisor and agent are one and the same you are inferring that a player can sign with an agent while in HS or college---and that cannot happen

And yes a player can have an advisor who does not end up being his agent

Please do not mislead people

I have to agree with TRHit on this one. An advisor is not an agent --- but that’s not saying he cannot become one because most advisors are agents to someone else. When this advisor "changes" into and agent you have to refer back to what BigHit 15 said --You lose your college eligibility. So tread lightly, do NOT get and agent while in high school unless you want to totally forgo college. Get an advisor! An advisor is not paid, does not ask you to sign a contract, and does NOT negotiate with MLB for you. Why would and advisor do all these things and not get paid? Normally they do it so they can become the player’s AGENT when he does sign in hopes of getting paid. My son used and advisor during high school, was drafted, we talked at length with the advisor but I negotiated with MLB, son opted to attend college. Three years later decided he was going pro, hooked up with an agent, was drafted, after being drafted he and I signed (he was still a minor) and agent agreement and he became a pro player and I became and expert on the agent/advisor issues.
Fungo

some so called advisors like Scott Boras are currently talking directly to MLB teams about their clients draft standing.

ANDY MAY

I would be very careful where you step here--advisors cannot talk directly with MLB Teams

E-6, you have it right.

TRHIT and FUNGO. here is fungo's quote,

quote:

I have to agree with TRHit on this one. An advisor is not an agent --- but that’s not saying he cannot become one because most advisors are agents to someone else. When this advisor "changes" into and agent[QUOTE]

oh boy, he isn't an agent but he can turn into one. AN ADVISOR is the same guy as THE AGENT! If an advisor is at a game and speaks to a scout about who he is advising then that would jepordize elgibility. ALL AGENTS work as advisors. THEY ADVISE you to use them so they can make money off of YOU and your SON.

quote:

An advisor is the same person as an agent. Are you saying your going to have an advsor and then at draft time your going to switch to someone else and refer to him as an agent? PAAAAAAAAA LEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I know of a player in the 2004 draft that used an advisor and then chose someone else as the agent after the draft because they were not happy. Advisors are not the same as agents, according to my son's agent.

I'll guarantee that the advisor your son used is an agent. Unless it was just a family friend. Bighit, tell the whole story. What does the advisor do for a living. Tell the whole story.

Vance, the NCAA, rightly or wrongly, makes a distinction between agents and advisors. It may be a very fine distinction. It may be a distinction without substance. But it is a distinction that can allow you to keep or forfeit you eligibility so it is a distinction of importance for every high school/college player and parent.
Some other facts to consider:
1. Not every "agent" takes the money out of the signing bonus. My son has a teammate who's agent agreed to be paid when/if the player gets on the 40 man roster.
2. MLB does not exactly follow Human Resources 101 when it comes to dealing with their employees, the minor league player. MLB knows exactly what it is doing and very little of that is known by the player or parent. Knowing what to do and how to manage injury situations, player releases, etc are all part of what should be involved for an agent.
In my view, you could be doing parents and players a disservice by not recognizing the NCAA distinction. You are also not providing the necessary view of life in the minor leagues, and the issues a player can face in the process with a fundamental lack of information.

Well Vance, of course he is an agent. We chose an advisor that is an agent for obvious reason's. We wanted advice as it pertains to the draft. Why would someone choose an advisor who had no knowledge of the draft process? Hello? The whole story is that in the end, the advisor advised my son to go to college or juco, based on the offer. My son decided to sign and asked the advisor to become his agent. That is exactly the way it is supposed to work.

A good agent will become an advisor for the long hall. He knows that the kid will be there down the road if he doesn't sign now. An ethical advisor/agent will look out for the kids interest and advise.

Parents need to know that an agent will inherently try to get a player to sign. (What would one expect?) Most agents believe the pros are a better way to develop. So I suggest one gets their ducks in a row and know the questions to ask. Parents should educate themselves on the process and understand the dynamics. The advisor advises, not controls. If parents let and advisor do that, then they are stupid.

What bother's me about your position is that you are trying to make it seem shady or illegal or even unethical. Some are, some are not. Same as any endeavor. It is within the rules.

Frankly your implying that I am leaving out part of the story and acting like I am hiding something is insulting. All it tells me is that lack certain knowledge (though you obviously know a lot) about the process and your view is slightly jaded. So I have to post here to make sure that someone doesn't follow your bad advice and get their kid into trouble with the ncaa.

By Vance.

quote:

Whats the difference? The advisor only will advise for a % of the signing bonus.

That kind of an agreement would void the player's ncaa eligibility. It is not legal. Though a schedule of payment can be discussed providing that you were to sign. Though there is no obligation to do so. Yes they would like you to sign with them, but you are not under any obligation.

I know of a player in supplemental round that got a bill from advisor, even though dad did the negotiation, and they did not pay it. Advisor did not answer the phone on draft day so he did not get paid.

Big Hit, tell me when to stop laughing. But let me add, YOU my friend filled in the blanks and completed the story perfectly!!

My comment was and remains, Whats the difference. The advisor and the agent are the same person!

My advice Big Hit was to talk to the scout yourself.

Whats important is that the player should be allowed to follow his heart not his Advisor's/ Agents billfold desires.

quote:

My advice Big Hit was to talk to the scout yourself.

Without an agent/advisor, how would a parent know what to say? Or, more importantly, what not to say?

It's not difficult. The scout is your salesman in the draft room to his organization. Introduce yourself and ask him his opinion of your sons tools and abilities. But be prepared for the answer. Scouts want players who want to play and make their money in the big leagues with their unwavering passion and drive for the game!

quote:

It's not difficult. The scout is your salesman in the draft room to his organization. Introduce yourself and ask him his opinion of your sons tools and abilities. But be prepared for the answer. Scouts want players who want to play and make their money in the big leagues with their unwavering passion and drive for the game!

This is true. What about the parent who doesn't want to short change his kid. He is asked, "how much to sign?" Dad responds; "750K", but thinking....I will take 250K. Now he is off the boards, kid doesn't get drafted, and they are stupified. Sure wish they had an advisor to tell them how to deal with those questions. Dad didn't understand and was trying to help his kid, but blew it. If you are a top 10 rounder, have an advisor.
Things obvious to some are a quandry for others.

to most kids getting drafted your going to get slot money,for most of us but not all.if your a blue chip player you don't find that out last minute.that being said.my plumber can fix my furnace but he's not a furnace guy.an advisor doesn't have to be an agent but usually is.but you had better not call him an agent or you may be a plumber.and thats ok too.

Big Hit, well who lied? The parent(Dad) did. Why would a parent say my son will sign for 750 grand if he would take 250 grand? I guess there is an issue with honesty? No scout is in the business of short changing a kid. Scouts take the parameters that the parents set as fact. If you'll sign for 250 grand, then tell the scout that. Chances are you'll get that and then some unless the scout has you lower on his list than the 250 grand range. However, whats important here is that maybe the scout has the player in the range of 200 grand. Makes it alot easier to take that player because his parameters and the scouts round range are closer together. When you say 750 grand, for all but about the 1st 50 picks, that means NOT SIGNABLE FOR WORTH.

What parents nor agents see is that honesty gets you everywhere. Saying 750 grand takes that player out of the draft at about pick number 50 in this years draft. Where being honest and saying 250 grand would have allowed that player to stay on the board until at least pick number 140. Scouts want players who want to go play. If its about the money then that player doesn't want to go play. Which is ok. Tell a scout you want to go play or tell him I want to go to college. The scout wants the best for the player but the scout also is realistic about where he fits into the draft and to his area. Scouts have no problem with a player going to school. Tell him that and be HONEST.

Parents do not understand the system like a scout or an advisor/agent do. You make my point for me. It is not a question of dishonesty. It is a question of not understanding slot money and thinking it is a negotiation. Your whole post proves the point that you need an agent/advisor. Scouts do this every year and scouts play parents to get information. A parent needs the support system of an EXPERIENCED advisor/agent. Scouts are not your friends. They have agendas the same way /advior/agents do. Theirs is for the team. Never forget that.

Is it dishonest to go to a car dealership and say; " here is what I will pay?" Of course not. You haggle. Most parents think that it works the same way in any negotiation. We know about slot money. Most parents do not.

Let's talk about another dishonest practice by the teams. You tell them you will sign for slot money in the first 10 rounds. There offer comes back at 40K less than expected for slot. They say that last years player in that slot got that. You point out that last year there were far more supplemental picks and that the player was a 4 year senior with no options. Who is lying? Team or parents? It is all about perception, isn't it? It is all about point of view. Who do you want advising you at this point? A scout who works for the team, or an advisor? What about a pre existing medical condition? Will the scout tell you to have a clause in the contract that makes them aware of it and that you will not sign until you pass a physical? Then before ninty days are up they tell you that you have a pre existing condition and they will not pay your bonus. But wait, you have already signed and lost you college eligibility. On and on and on. Get an advisor/agent.

Big Hit, a scout is not your enemy. Don't hold information from the scout. Scouts do not play parents. They ask parents and players what it is they want to sign for. Be honest and tell them even if its to high. Go to college and get better and try and get the amount you want. really simple.

If the offer is 40 k less than slot then just say "We will not sign for that, Thank You" My advise is not to say you will sign for slot money! Say you will sign for fair round money for the round I'm picked in through whatever round it is that matches your bottom dollar. Then be prepared to go to school.

A pre existing medical condition? Every club sends a player profile form with a medical profile form. Why would you not disclose this pre existing condition in that medical profile?

If you dont recieve your bonus in 90 days then the club has released you and you can go back to college and play. Why would you not tell a club you had a pre existing medical condition? If they know about the condition and still draft you then they are saying its not a issue. I think, Big Hit, we are once again missing the WHOLE story!

Reread what I said. The condition was disclosed. Did the scout advise the clause for the physical prior to signing. No. Where does it say they were not informed? It doesn't. What it does say is that WE wanted the clause in the contract that points it out so that they couldn't pull a R.A. Dickey. That WE wanted a physical before signing to make it airtight. You missed the point of the post or just did not understand what I was talking about.

quote:

What about a pre existing medical condition? Will the scout tell you to have a clause in the contract that makes them aware of it and that you will not sign until you pass a physical? Then before ninty days are up they tell you that you have a pre existing condition and they will not pay your bonus.

I did not say the scout was the enemy, I said that he works for the club and doesn't have your best interest at heart.

quote:

I think, Big Hit, we are once again missing the WHOLE story!

Another inference that I am not being truthful? Saying that the scout is your best friend is not truthful. The scout believes in his guys. I admit that. They have very little power compared to the crosschecker or scouting director. That they have a lot of influence on draft day is an over exaggeration.

You just want to win the argument, fine. Be truthful about the process. Don't twist my words to make it look like I am being devious.

Take time and re-read a post instead of implying something not said.

quote:

My advise is not to say you will sign for slot money! Say you will sign for fair round money for the round I'm picked in through whatever round it is that matches your bottom dollar. Then be prepared to go to school.

Picking nits. Especially when mlb puts out documents before the drafts stating slot money as the requirement. Fair money for the round/slot. Same difference.

Just revealing my experiences. Claiming they didn't happen that way or that I am shading the truth is getting boring and tiresome. I talked with scouts from all 30 teams. Most were honest and up front. Some were scumbags, lazy, and did not do their jobs. If you don't want to believe me that is your loss. I am done with this thread. You are not interested in anything but putting forth your agenda and winning an argument. My reason for posting is so that people going through the process have some better information than to tell the scout all and hope for the best. I am done that arguing with you is no counter productive. you are just accusing me of shading the truth and you are giving no new information other that attacking any dissenting opinion other than yours. I think I got my point across.

You can have the last word. This time tell the whole story about you. I notice you won't do that.

Scout - represents their team. Wants the best for their team. Some scouts have greater impact on who is drafted than others. They sell the players they like to their teams, but no matter what a scout tells you -- they probably do not control the draft board.
Advisor - helps educate the player and answers questions hoping to perform the role of an agent (but is not the agent because there is no contract).
Agent - was the advisor, but now is the representative of the player, usually.
Slot money - a guideline, not set in stone, either direction. Just look at last year.
Player - one who probably loves baseball, but knows little about the business of baseball.
Parent - one who wants the best for his/her son.

The scout is NOT the friend of the player. Scouts lie all the time (as do players and advisors). The truth is not the issue. The player and family have no ability to get through the maze of baseball business without an advisor.

This year I cannot tell you how many scouts lied about my son's velocity. My son's advisor gets his own reads to keep them honest (as do I). Some scouts will tell other teams that a player is not signable if they refuse to give a number. I don't mind them telling little fibs to try to put themselves in a more favorable position, but to say they are the friend of the player is not true. My job as a parent is to get my son looked at by as many teams as I could. The first game of district a scout (friend of mine) told the opposing coach that my son threw 5 mph lower than he did all night. My friend was the only scout present. That was quoted in the papers. When I asked him about it he said his job was not to get other scouts to watch him. I agree. My job was. My son's advisor proved a big help in getting scouts to see him.

By year end, most teams saw him. That is not the role or desire of a scout. THEY DO NOT WANT EVERYONE TO SEE YOUR SON.

Also, all the talk about slot money. What is the slot money for a senior in college who is drafted in the 8th round? What is the slot money for a high school player drafted in the 8th round? If it is the same then why are some college seniors with no other options getting $25,000 to $50,000. Is money the only issue? Dads, do you want to negotiate the other provisions of the contract. Or is the signing bonus the only issue? Are there other provisions? Are they take-it-or-leave it or is negotiation possible? Do you want to wait until the draft to get an agent and think about those issues then? Good luck.

It is up to the player and parents to decide ultimately what is best. My son's advisor is absolutely excellent and performs an invaluable role. He does want what is best for my son, as do I. I tell my son to think of himself for purposes of baseball as a piece of meat or a commodity. I don't fault baseball for that. If I was a GM, it would be the same -- it is business.

Baseballpapa. Outstanding and eloquent post. Your experinces mirror the ones we had.

baseball papa, excellent post.

Opposing Coach: " Huh. I think he threw harder last summer"

Scouts jobs are to report to their clubs information. It is not their jobs to relay information to someone who will tell another scout who may be lazy. Each scout should do his job. However, you all miss one important point. It takes a scout to get your son's signed. SO call a scout the enemy all you want. You would be false!

I don't want to be misunderstood or misquoted. I don't think the scout is my son's enemy. I think their role is to be loyal to their club and NOT MY SON'S FRIEND. It is nothing personal, I tell my son that my job as a dad is not to be his friend, but his dad. It is my role.

Likewise, to say an advisor is an agent because they are usually going to be the same person is to mis-state the two different roles. NCAA has a distinction and it should not be lost.

The point of the matter is that there are NO advisors making a living being an advisor. They make a living being an agent. When you get right down to it!!

A scouts job is as follows.

Report and evaluate in accordance with the Teams system. Understand and know the Teams scales and profile system.
Understand the area scout’s role in draft selection. The area scout should become an expert on each player who is on his draft list. The area scout should see the player over a length of time and develop a relationship with him and with his family. Explain any fluctuations in his performance and ascertain his aspirations related to money and baseball. In short, answer all reasonable questions. Take pride in gathering information.
Have faith in other people. Do not scout with a “my guy” mentality. It is impossible for an area scout to know all the variables leading to a draft selection. Wanting players and being aggressive should not affect your ability to evaluate objectively.

papa

I do understand. Just bizniss.

quote:

The point of the matter is that there are NO advisors making a living being an advisor. They make a living being an agent. When you get right down to it!!

A scouts job is as follows.

Report and evaluate in accordance with the Teams system. Understand and know the Teams scales and profile system.
Understand the area scout’s role in draft selection. The area scout should become an expert on each player who is on his draft list. The area scout should see the player over a length of time and develop a relationship with him and with his family. Explain any fluctuations in his performance and ascertain his aspirations related to money and baseball. In short, answer all reasonable questions. Take pride in gathering information.
Have faith in other people. Do not scout with a “my guy” mentality. It is impossible for an area scout to know all the variables leading to a draft selection. Wanting players and being aggressive should not affect your ability to evaluate objectively.

Wah! Can you say back peddle? Or, What u talkin bout Willis? Huh?

no back pedal. Take it as you want to. Scouts are good people and some agents are to. They all have families.

If the player wants to play go play. If he wants to go to college then do that as well. Looks like fear on this thread to me! Might as well go to college! but, there are more millionaires without degree's than with!

Professional baseball has established a very complex and finely tuned negotiation process that is as much a part of baseball as a foul ball. They are continually negotiating with players, parents, advisors, agents, coaches, other teams and whomever they can to get ahead in a very competitive marketplace. Professional baseball, as in any business involved in negotiations, understands the advantage goes to the best and the most seasoned negotiator. MLB attempts to establish that advantage on day one by attempting to disarm the first year player by discouraging the use of the advisor/agent. Let me say this ---- If a player and his parents follow the letter of the law there is nothing to lose and everything to gain by getting a trusted ADVISOR.
I also feel as if the parent(s) needs to be the person in charge of a player coming out of high school --- not the advisor and definitely not a scout! Sit down and talk to your son and make sure you understand his wishes and agree on the approach to the draft/college with your son. Once this is established he can play ball and you can conduct business.
My advice to the parent of a high school player that is expecting to be drafted in the top ten rounds is to get an advisor and establish a rapport with that advisor and have an establish the ground rules on the front end.

1. Establish with the advisor the dollar amount it would take to sign. If the dollars are not right he will go to college. The advisor should not determine that amount!
2. Tell the advisor he does not have your permission to negotiate on your behalf with MLB. If he does talk to MLB he is doing it without your permission.
3. You will not sign or verbally commit to anything that could be construed as a contractual agreement with him or anyone else.
4. Explain you may or may not use his services as an agent if you son signs a pro contract. If he’s good that is all he wants …

Fungo

Amen, Fungo!

The banter in the last dozen posts is, for the most part, completely foreign to me. I don't know what slot money is. I don't know what a 4year senior is. What IS a slot? I suppose if one is a business person, can read and comprehend a contract, can negotiate without losing their cool AND can keep their head around a 6 figure dollar amount then they probably don't need an agent/advisor.

One post mentioned asking for 750,000 when they know they'd take 250,000. If you've ever been to a country where bargaining for everything is standard, you will know that the bargaining starts way above what you know you'd pay. In fact, it is a sign of poor manners to NOT name an outlandish price. But, in the end, you have to know what the item is worth. How hard would it be to put a dollar amount on your own son? I would not know where to begin.

You all seem to have figures in your head depending on slot numbers, draft picks...lots of lingo. If my son had to depend on ME getting up to speed on this within the next year, he'd be crazy. I'll get a professional.