TRhit, I'm a consultant....
quote:A hitter doesn't have time to commit to a swing after foot plant.....Foot plant happens to late to begin the swing....And, the hips begin rotating before foot plant....If they didn't, the swing would be way late....
You must teach some pretty slow a$$ batters if they have to commit before foot plant. You cannot swing with any speed unless you plant the front foot.
http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro?p=11&n=1&m=24&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9
Does anyone believe this nonsense???
Z-Dad, you don't even know what's happening in that clip.....You don't know what to look for.....But, you're not supposed to know.... 
BLUE DOG
Consultant to whom and for WHAT!!!!!!
Consultant to whom and for WHAT!!!!!!
Anyone who wants my help.....I'm easy...
Zdad, point being you don't plant then rotate in a high level swing....momemtum is transfered to rotation into foot plant at which time the swing process has already begun.
Every high level swing I see in MLB shows forward rotation after foot plant. IMHO, forward rotation is commitment to a pitch. Everything before that is setting up the swing - stride, loading, counter-rotation, etc. That is not commitment and isn't swinging.
I won't disagree that the above elements are part of the swing process. But swing process <> swing. There's no logical sense in that either, if the batter commits prior to foot plant then my original point stands, the batter would be forced commit to a pitch just as it is released and that is ridiculous.
In Pujol's vid on the first page, I can't see this momentum. The front foot barely moves forward. I see weight transfer and I see counterrotation. If anything, momentum seems backwards on the hips and arms. But most of all I see the hips moving forward only after foot plant.
I won't disagree that the above elements are part of the swing process. But swing process <> swing. There's no logical sense in that either, if the batter commits prior to foot plant then my original point stands, the batter would be forced commit to a pitch just as it is released and that is ridiculous.
In Pujol's vid on the first page, I can't see this momentum. The front foot barely moves forward. I see weight transfer and I see counterrotation. If anything, momentum seems backwards on the hips and arms. But most of all I see the hips moving forward only after foot plant.
Z-Dad, you see what you want to see.....
There is no counter-rotation in a high level swing.....
And, you don't understand momentum in the swing....It's obvious by your comments....
There is no counter-rotation in a high level swing.....
And, you don't understand momentum in the swing....It's obvious by your comments....
Whatever, it seems only you understand whatever you are spouting.
Well, enough wasting time. From now on, you'll just need to be satisfied with more conversations with yourself. Enjoy, hope you win those.
Well, enough wasting time. From now on, you'll just need to be satisfied with more conversations with yourself. Enjoy, hope you win those.
phenomenal, I think I have just learned a good bit from those two short clips of ortiz and pujols. Neat, maybe I can hit in the game today, been walked or beaned every at bat in my last two games.
Adam,
Best Of Luck To Ya !
Best Of Luck To Ya !
Bluedog,
Exactly when are hips rotating ?
Exactly when are hips rotating ?
Question: would teach kids to hit with their feet spread as far apart as Pujols does ?
It works for him but I do not think it is for everybody anymore than to teach kids to use a stance like Stan Musial had
It works for him but I do not think it is for everybody anymore than to teach kids to use a stance like Stan Musial had
quote:Question: would teach kids to hit with their feet spread as far apart as Pujols does ?
It works for him but I do not think it is for everybody anymore than to teach kids to use a stance like Stan Musial had
TRhit
TR,
This kinda spurred a memory. I was talking to Terry Collins who managed the Astros in the 90s. We were talking about Bagwell's swing. He told me "you know, Bagwell has one of the ugliest swings I have ever seen. (he pauses here with a smile). He hit 40 homeruns and was our RBI guy. So would you mess with his swing?" I replied heck no (laughing). He then said "But, man I hope alot of kids aren't patterning his swing"
Good Morning All,
First
My applogies that the individual frames from the AP swing didnt post correctly.
Second
I would have no problem teaching a young player the approach that AP is using. Go to any batting facility, practice or game at the LL level or even younger. It is a very simple swing with all the correct fundamentals.
Why not teach it to young players? I hav eseen so many kids using messed up mechanics over the years. 9 to 12-yr old kids using the big front leg lift and then having the back leg not even pivot and usually come off the ground before contact.
Why go through all that? Why add things like a big lig lift or stride that takes them off balance? The approach used by AP still uses an initial movement of the front foot to start things up, but its a much more controllable movement, especially for a young hitter.
First
My applogies that the individual frames from the AP swing didnt post correctly.
Second
I would have no problem teaching a young player the approach that AP is using. Go to any batting facility, practice or game at the LL level or even younger. It is a very simple swing with all the correct fundamentals.
Why not teach it to young players? I hav eseen so many kids using messed up mechanics over the years. 9 to 12-yr old kids using the big front leg lift and then having the back leg not even pivot and usually come off the ground before contact.
Why go through all that? Why add things like a big lig lift or stride that takes them off balance? The approach used by AP still uses an initial movement of the front foot to start things up, but its a much more controllable movement, especially for a young hitter.
NH
To me "approach" and "foot space" are two different things
Young hitters are not strong enough to do what Pujols does
The key to hititng is the player staying within himslef and be himself--not try to be someone else
To me "approach" and "foot space" are two different things
Young hitters are not strong enough to do what Pujols does
The key to hititng is the player staying within himslef and be himself--not try to be someone else
Penja-
I'd have to disagree... Bagwell has same swing (from launch to contact) as over 90% of other MLB hitters. The one difference, I think, that people see with him that make them think that his swing is bad (different) is that he incorporates a reverse-stride. As in Pujols, Nomar and Edmonds using a no-stride approach, most others have a standard-stride approach...
I'd have to disagree... Bagwell has same swing (from launch to contact) as over 90% of other MLB hitters. The one difference, I think, that people see with him that make them think that his swing is bad (different) is that he incorporates a reverse-stride. As in Pujols, Nomar and Edmonds using a no-stride approach, most others have a standard-stride approach...
Children's legs are proportionately shorter than an adult's legs so I do not think it is a good idea for a child to spread them out as far as AP.
But other elements of AP's batting is fine to emulate, i.e. no stride.
But other elements of AP's batting is fine to emulate, i.e. no stride.
Gents,
My fault, bad wordsmitihng on my part....
I meant to convey that i would prefer to have a young hitter start in the position you want him to be in as he swings. Not necessarily as wide as AP, but wide enough to provide the proper balance.
Why ask a young player to try to control his body with a stride or leg lift. If you think they can't control there body with a wide stable stance, then certainly they cant control their body with all the extra movement a stride or leg lift entails.
My fault, bad wordsmitihng on my part....
I meant to convey that i would prefer to have a young hitter start in the position you want him to be in as he swings. Not necessarily as wide as AP, but wide enough to provide the proper balance.
Why ask a young player to try to control his body with a stride or leg lift. If you think they can't control there body with a wide stable stance, then certainly they cant control their body with all the extra movement a stride or leg lift entails.
NHF, my child hits very similar. We call it "Heel - Toe." She is 12. She seems to be able to "let the ball get to her" and does well with the bat. Since I'm the Dad and biased, Just_Learning has seen her swing as well. Perhaps he can post the positives and negatives of watching a younger player attempt that swing.
Diablo-
His follow thru is an upper swing. That is what Mr Collins was telling me. The point that he was making earlier is that the Astros and Soxs could have broken down his swing and brought in his legs but he was hitting above average and with power. Why mess with success? I do not think that most kids could benefit from that. It is an ugly swing. I am fan of Bagwells but it is ugly. I respect your opinion but I have mine as well. Jim Furyk has an ugly swing but he can win with it so why take it apart?
His follow thru is an upper swing. That is what Mr Collins was telling me. The point that he was making earlier is that the Astros and Soxs could have broken down his swing and brought in his legs but he was hitting above average and with power. Why mess with success? I do not think that most kids could benefit from that. It is an ugly swing. I am fan of Bagwells but it is ugly. I respect your opinion but I have mine as well. Jim Furyk has an ugly swing but he can win with it so why take it apart?
Penja-
i am not sure what you mean that his follow through was up... all MLB swings are on a slight upslope, therefore the power V and follow through finish out that way as well... unless pitch is across letters then swing plane would be flatter do to path of ball...
how did they want him to swing? down?
from launch to contact, he looks like just about everybody else (mechanically).
and yes, Mr. Furyk has a different swing than most PGA guys, but Bagwell doesn't... just his stance, stride... apples and oranges, i think...
i am not sure what you mean that his follow through was up... all MLB swings are on a slight upslope, therefore the power V and follow through finish out that way as well... unless pitch is across letters then swing plane would be flatter do to path of ball...
how did they want him to swing? down?
from launch to contact, he looks like just about everybody else (mechanically).
and yes, Mr. Furyk has a different swing than most PGA guys, but Bagwell doesn't... just his stance, stride... apples and oranges, i think...
Look at his swing. He is off balanced at times. Maybe you can find an archive. I remember on alot of his cuts he was off balance. He isnt on plane like most, his is really upward. Furyk and Bagwell is apples and apples. They both find the sweet spot to produce results even though the swings are ugly.
Once you get past the wide uncomfortable looking stance and negative stride what's ugly about Bagwell's swing? Once the swing starts it's a thing of beauty.
I have to 2nd that PGstaff...
What appears uncomfortable to us is obviously a comfort/preference thing with Bagwell otherwise he would have changed his stance...what he does from launch to contact is all that really matters.
NYDad,
You have hit on another of the old wives tales. That being hitters getting as comfortable as possible. Obviously Bagwell, Pujols and most others could find a more "comfortable" stance. Good hitters use what works, not necessarily what is most "confortable". The most comfortable position would be standing straight up with bat laying on shoulder. So there is a point where most comfortable just doesn't work. I prefer your word preference over comfort.
You have hit on another of the old wives tales. That being hitters getting as comfortable as possible. Obviously Bagwell, Pujols and most others could find a more "comfortable" stance. Good hitters use what works, not necessarily what is most "confortable". The most comfortable position would be standing straight up with bat laying on shoulder. So there is a point where most comfortable just doesn't work. I prefer your word preference over comfort.
PG
Good point and what is comfort for one may be discomfort for another--it is all a matter of preference---but I would not teach kids to hit the way Bagwell or Pujols do-- that is their thing
Good point and what is comfort for one may be discomfort for another--it is all a matter of preference---but I would not teach kids to hit the way Bagwell or Pujols do-- that is their thing
TR,
Actually once they get to their swing, it would be a great thing to teach kids.
Actually once they get to their swing, it would be a great thing to teach kids.
PG
I agree with what you say
BUT
My concern would be that the kids are not yet strong enough to make it all happen and will get frustrated
I agree with what you say
BUT
My concern would be that the kids are not yet strong enough to make it all happen and will get frustrated
I personally think Pujols (no matter how much Stros don't care for him :P ) batting is more a thing of beauty than Bagwells. I agree with TR what I was talking about earlier. There was alot of coaches correcting the Bagwell stance which led kids to a golf type swing. Added to what is stated above, In 1997- 43 HR 135 RBI no matter how uncomfortable or how well he finished. Hall of Famer.
PG,
What do you feel on the active hands up like Griffey? Some guys i notice are kind flat when they hold the bat. Like they aren't as ready to pull the trigger like they should.
What do you feel on the active hands up like Griffey? Some guys i notice are kind flat when they hold the bat. Like they aren't as ready to pull the trigger like they should.
PG
I am not talking about the swing-- I think the swing in both cases is great but would you teach a kid the stance of either of these players/ And trust me these are two guys I love to watch swing the bat almost as much as I like to see Manny and Willie, in his Say Hey Days
I am not talking about the swing-- I think the swing in both cases is great but would you teach a kid the stance of either of these players/ And trust me these are two guys I love to watch swing the bat almost as much as I like to see Manny and Willie, in his Say Hey Days
Nice clips boss 
Swings look pretty darn good to Shep's sore eyes. peace
Swings look pretty darn good to Shep's sore eyes. peace
Cool you found some video. Look at the different hand placement bouncing around before he powers up (you need to click the slow motion) Its like he has to center it around for a sec before he gets on plane. Griffey is so smooth i like clicking that one frame at a time. he drops his hands then its smooth motion.
TR,
I would be embarrassed to teach a young kid Bagwell's stance. I think people would laugh. But if I could get them to do everything else in that swing I'd be a great hitting coach. And the young kid would have a chance to be a great hitter.
I would be embarrassed to teach a young kid Bagwell's stance. I think people would laugh. But if I could get them to do everything else in that swing I'd be a great hitting coach. And the young kid would have a chance to be a great hitter.
Hey Boss, LeftDevil is at your site
CoachB...When they are in sync it's fun to watch. When they are not, in the case of my son, it is painful!
