Albert Pujols

quote:

Originally posted by JUST_LEARNING:
CoachB...When they are in sync it's fun to watch. When they are not, in the case of my son, it is painful!

High on my priority list when our season is done is getting the youngin in sync!

PG, preference may be the better word but wasn't implying they get as comfortable as possible....more of a comfort zone thing with respect to being able to get into proper launch position to hit a baseball. Think most agree how they stand and how they get there is insignificant provided they get there.

PGstaff- great video.... looks to me that from launch to contact identical mechanics - relative to pitch location of course...

TRhit.. i teach a no-stride approach when working with all clients - less moving object, less room for error... once players get pretty good mechanics, will switch to stride if they want... most stay no-stride...

people need to realize that there isno relationship between stride and power...

beastball4,

Either you're blind, you need new contacts/glasses, or the catchers glove distracted you because I can assure you this ball was hit over the left field wall. Watch Pujols' eyes after he hits the ball. He's watching the ball fly over the fence.

Jason

beast4baseball,

The catcher just closed his glove expecting to catch the ball, if u look u wont even see the ball cross over pujols's back leg or across his body, and i point out what flip says about looking up.

Bat speed = Torque, which is the hips starting rotation and the shoulders staying square to the plate until the stretch reflex happens. Pujols has an outstanding stretch reflex.

Swing Quickness = proper rotation. Most hitters do not rotate properly.

Momentum is important in the high level swing because of the wood bat. Most young aluminum bat hitters do not have any momentum because all the hitting coaches at all the facilities try to keep the hitter from moving his head at all. Think of momentum as being similar to a Swinging Gate on a fence.//// Think of what all the hitting instructors teach as Revolving door like in a hospital entrance or big Hotel. All the best hitters in the world are swinging gate hitters.

Now, Pujols swing as always been with a wide base. He also has great lower half swivel.

Ortiz, well this is a bad clip, He was jammed on the pitch and not a good one to evaluate. If you look, you can also find clips of Pujols getting jammed.

Beastball, I'm in your corner! Flipp J has been blind for a long time. Pujols missed the ball on the clip and that is a FACT JACK!

quote:

Either you're blind, you need new contacts/glasses, or the catchers glove distracted you because I can assure you this ball was hit over the left field wall. Watch Pujols' eyes after he hits the ball. He's watching the ball fly over the fence.

Come on Jason, use your quicktime on the clip and slow it down. Its obvious without slowing it down. Another way to tell is by watching the crowd, NOT ONE HEAD in the stands turned left!!

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
Come on Jason, use your quicktime on the clip and slow it down. Its obvious without slowing it down. Another way to tell is by watching the crowd, NOT ONE HEAD in the stands turned left!!

Vance34,

You're a funny guy. Why in the world would I post a clip of a hitter missing a ball? I have at least one other camera angle of this same swing. My son is playing in a tournament this weekend but if I have some free time I'll post another clip of this swing.

Jason

P.S. Watch the coach in the dugout on the lower right of the clip. At the tail end of the clip you can see him turning his head to his left. Also, if you look at the clip frame by frame in quicktime go to frame 22. That's the frame just before contact. You can see the blur of the ball just in front of his bat. One frame later you can see the blur of the ball as it leaves his bat.

Jason, he missed the ball. Don't ask me why you posted a clip of him missing the ball, I have no idea, but a good swing non the less. Happens sometimes!

You can see the blur of the ball just in front of his bat. One frame later you can see the blur of the ball as it leaves his bat.

Exactly what I see........

The ball was hit.

1. We never see the blur of the ball into the catcher's mitt. You can clearly see it coming in before Pujols hits it, and then it re-directs.

2. In the last frame of film, you can see Puljols, and two coaches in the dugout looking to the outfield. The fans do not react as quickly perhaps beacuse they are not paying attention as closely. The last frame of film is less than 1/2 second after the ball was hit (roughly 10 frames, about 1/3 of second if the film is 30 frames per second). I've slowed down HR clips where the spectators don't turn their heads until the ball is in the outfield.

3. I think you're distracted by the catcher closing his mitt. This happens on every pitch, whether the ball is hit or not. You can see this happen here: http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/sosa_sammy2.mpeg

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:

Think of momentum as being similar to a Swinging Gate on a fence.//// Think of what all the hitting instructors teach as Revolving door like in a hospital entrance or big Hotel. All the best hitters in the world are swinging gate hitters.

I didn’t follow your point this time. Both the swinging gate and the revolving door turn on a stationary axis. This is the concept that the hitter needs to understand and emulate. What do you see as the significant difference in the two analogies as they apply to proper hitting technique?

To add to Line Drive's post, if we use the swinging gate analogy, his front hip would never move. Everything would turn around the front hip as it remains closed. Pujols front hip clearly turns away from the pitcher, much like...a revolving door or a merry-go-round.

...Here's a clip of a front hip (properly) rotating away from the pitcher. This is rotation, not keeping the front hip "in" as in the swinging gate model.
http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Guerrero01.mpeg

quote:

3. I think you're distracted by the catcher closing his mitt. This happens on every pitch, whether the ball is hit or not. If someone else can post another clip of a struck ball, you'll see the catcher;s mitt close on the air...

Linedrive and Levelpath, good question. Watch the clip of Pujols. Draw a line through the center of his body (head to bellybutton to ground) while he is in his stance. Does he move his center from this line? YES, if he were to not move away from that line this would be called (REVOLVING DOOR). NOW, draw another line (same direction) once he plnats his lead foot (stride foot) heel. Once he plants that heel his backside now rotates against and around that planted front side foot and leg (SWINGING GATE).

All hitters rotate the hip and it only has one way to go. However, the front hip doesn't work away from the pitcher, BUT the back hip does work towards the pitcher! you can either be a spinner and have no momentum in the swing(revolving door) or you can have momentum in the swing (swinging gate). The number 1 reason why good hitters in HS and college don't make the big leagues. They can never grasp the ability to hit with momentum.

I would say keep on spinning to the softball leagues, but hell, they use momentum to!

I think everyone understands that a hitter's center line moves forward during the stride...but once he plants that front foot, his center is not his front side but the line from his chin to his belly button.

Again, if it is a swinging gate, then the front hip wouldn't move. The center of rotation can't move. How can the back side rotate around the front side when the front side is moving as well? Please adrress Vladimir Guerrero's rotation and tell me the the front hip is not being pulled away from the pitcher, at the same rate that the back hip is peing pulled around towards the pitcher. The center of rotation is not the front hip, but a point between the front hip and the back hip...that point remains fairly stationary.

Classic your not seeing what you think you are.

I never said his center was his front side. His front side is just that, his front side. The swing happens from and around that front side. Its not a spin from the center.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
Classic your not seeing what you think you are.

Kind of like you with that Pujols clip right Vance34? You know, the one where it's "obvious" that he missed the ball?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. Carry on!

Jason

How am I not seeing what I think I am? This obviously boils down to definitions and semantics, but please state how I am incorrect. The way I see it (and I've seen alot more film that you have, believe me) the front hip pulls back, away from the pitcher at the same rate and direction that the back hip "pushes" toward the pitcher. Is this true? Do the hips not move opposite one another, much like two opposite ends of a merry-go-round? Try this clip http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/Rose.mpeg and tell me if it's more "swinging gate" than merry-go-round. Watch the "R" on the jersey go backwards...

BTW, still feel that Pujols missed the ball? Freeze the last frame of film and tell me why the two coaches are looking in LF...

Vance34,

An interesting theory but I don’t think it is supported by the video or kinesiology. The front hip is being forced away from the pitcher by the powerful extension of the front leg. The back hip moves forward too because it is attached to the other side of the pelvis and is on the opposite side of the axis of rotation. Pelvis rotation (not hip rotation) is really a better description of what is happening. Of course other smaller muscle groups besides the front leg are involved too but the axis of rotation is still the spine (approximately), not the front hip.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
Once he plants that heel his backside now rotates against and around that planted front side foot and leg (SWINGING GATE).

If what you say is true, what causes his backside (hip) to move forward? Where does the rotational force come from? The back leg does not extend and it can’t be the force of his front leg extension if the front hip is now the axis of rotation and does not move away from the pitcher.

Swinging gate theory being weight shift momentum into rotation and foot plant will
establish the front leg as the "post" hinging the frontside in the process as the backside swings around. Is this correct Vance?

NYdad, I will take the liberty to answer, yes.....

A hitter must use the right power source to accomplish this technique....It's a beautiful thing...

Correct NYDAD. Now your talking! and Dog yes the power source is the momentum and then the start of rotaton from the hips.

The pelvis rotation and not the Hip rotation? Oh really Linedrive? Kiniseology, well the pelvis is the cavity in the posterior part of the body that is formed by the HIP bones. The hip is the thigh bones and joined they create the cavity called the pelvis. SO you rotate the pelvic cavity and I'll rotate the HIPS.

You may very well be correct on the missed ball visual. But when I slow it down I can clearly see the ball enter the mitt.

The front leg straighting is a result of rotation more than its a cause of rotation. I don't see the hip moving back away from the pitcher towards the catcher, Sorry. What I do see is the backside leg/knee/thigh/hip moving forward towards the pitcher.

The hips are not a power source, IMO.....

IMO your basically splitting hairs when debating hips/pelvis being the power source as the four main "middle" muscle groups i.e. gluteal, lateral, adductor and iliopsoas are considered hip muscles and part of the pelvis.

Dog, good for you. I said they were?

quote:

But when I slow it down I can clearly see the ball enter the mitt.

How do you "slow it down"? Try this...right click on the clip. Then click on "save picture as" and save it to your computer. Then play it in either Real Player or Quicktime. You can play it frame by frame, stopping on any frame that you choose. There are 34 frames in this clip, frame 23 shows the ball leaving the bat, frames 24 and 25 show Pujols following through, but do not show that ball passing Pujols toward the catcher. Frame 26 show the catcher's mitt closing. Frames 33 and 34 show the two coaches in the dugout starting to turn their head towards the OF. I have still frames of these, but don't know how to post them...

TR,

I will give one of the good reasons to teach the no-stride approach to younger hitters

Look at the video clip of Jeter's Swing. Watch how much head movement their is. No look a Pujols' head movement in his swing.

Young hitters will struggle to keep their head steady with any kind of big leg lift.
This is much bigger problem to fix for a young player than learning to hit with no-stride. more than

The more movement and extra motion you give a 9 to 12 yr old to deal with the more problems that will develop.

I am not saying you have to use an extreme wide stance. if they stride now, watch them swing and place a pice of tape (assuming your in a batting cage) where there foot lands. Use that as the point for them to set-up with no-stride. Use a simple heel lift or even a very small lift of the foot off the ground at that point to start up their swing.

Their head will be steadier and they will able to track the pitch much easier.

I will give you one GOOD reason why not to, at least IMO--9 to 12 year olds are not physically strong enough to hit that way

quote:

Dog, good for you. I said they were?

No, Vance, you did not......

I just like to say it....I like the sound of it.....

quote:

IMO your basically splitting hairs when debating hips/pelvis being the power source.....

Nydad, you are wrong, IMO.....We are not even close to splitting hairs.....

TR,

I dont see any logic to your statement, your going to have explain to me exactly how you would teach a young hitter who is to weak to with no-stride to hit with all that extra body movement.

I watch so many kids being taught this way (with a stride or Jeter-like leg lift) who can't control their bodies and end-up with their upper body out over the front foot. Also especially with young hitter, they will bail out.

I have no idea how you think they are strong enough to hit with all that extra motion, but not with a simple no-stride sytle.

We do a winter long camp with players grades 4-8. Not only do we teach them this style of hitting, each of these teams have won tournaments and are already qualified for their various "World/National" tournaments. That from a very small community says a lot since they've won those tournaments in St. Louis.

CoachB25,

St. Louis...was it the AAYBA World Series ?

quote:

Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:
CoachB25,

St. Louis...was it the AAYBA World Series ?

NHFybdanebtaksDad, I really don't know. 3-4 of these teams have qualified while we were still in our season and so, I was concentrating on the high school team. The name of the program is Troy Thunder if that helps.

CoachB25,

I was just curious, my son played out there in the AAYBA World Series in his 12U & 13U seasons. It was a good tournament and the facilities in Chesterfield (just little ways outside St. Louis) were phenominal for a city run park.

CoachB25,

I just looked at the site and yes there is a 14U Troy Thunder team listed as attending for this year.

If its run as well as the past, they will have a great time. Good luck to them !!!

Hey Vance,

No attempt on my part to discredit you or the swinging gate concept. I still just want to make sure I understand what you are saying, and why. I haven’t reached any conclusion yet. My comment about rotation of the pelvis (the combined bone structure, not the cavity created by it) was not meant to reinvent the wheel or turn into an anatomy lesson. It’s just that hip rotation has become a pretty generic term on this site and has been used to describe independent movement of one leg in the hip socket or movement of both hips at the same time as well as a number of other seemingly random definitions that continue to cause confusion. Maybe my attempt to clarify the description just added to the confusion.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
The front leg straighting is a result of rotation more than its a cause of rotation. I don't see the hip moving back away from the pitcher towards the catcher, Sorry. What I do see is the backside leg/knee/thigh/hip moving forward towards the pitcher.

If this is true what is the technique used to turn his weight transfer momentum into enough power to hit home runs?

LD, not a problem. Turn it into enough power? Not sure I get your point.

Technique wise, the hitter must land with a flexed front leg and he must push the weight or carry the weight forward to a flexed leg landing. Now the post is established when he lands on his heel and as he does the back heel comes up. However, that back heel does not pivot or turn to make the hips rotate. Notice the Pujols clip. He is driving his backside forward towards the pitcher. He is not sitting on his backleg nor does he have weight on his back leg. The weight is on the front leg and more correctly against the front leg. He has stopped his momentum from continuing forward with the flexed leg. Now the energy moves from the middle out to the hands (kinetic Link) and into the barrel for power. Much like a whip.

Maybe I’m reading too much into what you said originally. My questions started with the comment about using momentum from his weight transfer being critical to the power of his swing. Pujols doesn’t stride but he does lift his front foot and appears to give a slight push with his back foot and does create some forward weight transfer before rotation. Momentum is a measure of the motion of a body equal to the product of its mass and velocity. I asked how the amount of energy Pojols generates by weight transfer before rotation is enough to hit home runs because it seemed to be the only source of energy you see in his swing. You did say he is driving his backside forward toward the pitcher but seemed to attribute this energy to his initial momentum instead of additional work being done by another muscle group, his core for example. Your explanation also indicates that you don’t think his front leg is adding energy to the swing. I guess that brings us back to Bagwell. Earlier in this thread it was pointed out that Bagwell’s weight transfer before rotation is back instead of forward. This would mean he needs to overcome his momentum instead of it being the critical source of power for his swing and he was a pretty good power hitter too. For the moment let’s set aside the issue of whether or not Pujols hip moves away from the pitcher. If you look at the clip of Griffey I think you would agree that his hip does move away from the pitcher. I don’t know if this swing resulted in a home run but it looks typical for him and he has hit his share of long balls. My point is that Bagwell’s swing may be an anomaly or it may be an important clue to what is really critical. Pujols’ weight transfer and momentum before rotation may be typical but not critical for power hitters. Is it possible the same is true for revolving door and swinging gate rotation? Maybe hip rotation is critical but both axis points work. For the moment I have an open but somewhat skeptical mind about your description of Pujols’ swing. I hope you will post more info in support of what you believe. Maybe I’ll be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together then.

BTW: One of the things that seems strange to me is that we are eight pages into this thread and I don’t remember anybody pointing out that all these hitters follow the same circular path with their hands. It is not the same path used by many other less powerful hitters.