Parents like this are totally detrimental and over the top losers
The only thing I would like to add is that statement about going to a state school. In todays economy, it appears most kids are staying in state because of the poor economic conditions. Its cheaper to attend school in state,plain and simple
If its fun, he enjoys it, involves something positive like exercise, let him do it. If he doesn't like it, let him stop.
I was one of those 4.X kids going to a top engineering school (Renesselaer Polytechnic Institute) with 1400's (didn't have three subjects back then). I gave up sports so I'd have enough time to study and wound up having enough time to do 'other stuff'.
I'd have been a much better student with more time constraints, being in better shape from playing a sport, etc. I graduated and have done fairly well at everything except spelling (which those that read my posts are most likely keenly aware).
It is my firm belief that everyone needs to 'do something else'. It's just good for the mind. Kind of clears the buffer and let's you attack from a different angle.
I've fought great technical problems for hours and not solved them until I was sitting with a cold one in front of a ball game, when the solution just pops into my head.
I was one of those 4.X kids going to a top engineering school (Renesselaer Polytechnic Institute) with 1400's (didn't have three subjects back then). I gave up sports so I'd have enough time to study and wound up having enough time to do 'other stuff'.
I'd have been a much better student with more time constraints, being in better shape from playing a sport, etc. I graduated and have done fairly well at everything except spelling (which those that read my posts are most likely keenly aware).
It is my firm belief that everyone needs to 'do something else'. It's just good for the mind. Kind of clears the buffer and let's you attack from a different angle.
I've fought great technical problems for hours and not solved them until I was sitting with a cold one in front of a ball game, when the solution just pops into my head.
Why don't you let the "Overacheiver" make these decisions for himself? It seems from the posts that you intend to run his life and quite possibly DID his homework for the last 12 years. There is an inherent problem with today's youth that they are overly micromanaged by their parents. He may be a genius with the books but until you let him make mistakes, learn from them, adapt to change, make important decisions ON HIS OWN. He'll have no life skills. It's a shame that we're raising children with no life skills.
I find the original poster to be ignorant and intellectually snobbish.quote:The discussion concerns only a very small group of students, who have a GPA above 4.0 and SAT above 700. Please read the following in that context
Thank you. Please do share your experience. I am sure we all learn something from such discussion.
The reason I limit the discussion for a small group of students is that this group needs more help than other since they are less likely to excel in pro or even D1 sports. By widening their horizon, they may have a more balanced life in high school.
Question: why 4 year baseball? Why not a couple years here and there. Why not try 5 different sports.
Again, all my statements are never intended for individuals. They are meaningful only in a statistic sense.
The reason I limit the discussion for a small group of students is that this group needs more help than other since they are less likely to excel in pro or even D1 sports. By widening their horizon, they may have a more balanced life in high school.
Question: why 4 year baseball? Why not a couple years here and there. Why not try 5 different sports.
Again, all my statements are never intended for individuals. They are meaningful only in a statistic sense.
I have no clue what the OP is trying to get across in this thread. All I know was when it came time for my son to apply for colleges and coming from one of the top school systems in the state, getting good grades, scoring ok on his SAT's, lettering in two sports including baseball enhanced his marketability to sell himself to get in the college of his choice.
While he didn't go on to play college baseball, he acheived success on the baseball field as one of the key players on the team as well as the in the classroom making the honor roll. I see his acheivements as part of his makeup. I don't quite get the connection with baseball and lack of acheiving in the classroom. His playing varsity baseball carried weight with the colleges he applied for. Making the honor roll and being a two-sport letterwinner displays his ability to maintain his grades and balance it with the demanding schedule of a high school athlete.
While grades are the deal, don't think that colleges don't weigh HS athletics (or extra-curricular activities/clubs)into the equation. They do, they asked him about it and he made it work for him.
Even though he was good enough to play at the D3 level and had he decided on wanting to play at the collegiate level, baseball wasn't gonna dictate where he would go to school.
While he didn't go on to play college baseball, he acheived success on the baseball field as one of the key players on the team as well as the in the classroom making the honor roll. I see his acheivements as part of his makeup. I don't quite get the connection with baseball and lack of acheiving in the classroom. His playing varsity baseball carried weight with the colleges he applied for. Making the honor roll and being a two-sport letterwinner displays his ability to maintain his grades and balance it with the demanding schedule of a high school athlete.
While grades are the deal, don't think that colleges don't weigh HS athletics (or extra-curricular activities/clubs)into the equation. They do, they asked him about it and he made it work for him.
Even though he was good enough to play at the D3 level and had he decided on wanting to play at the collegiate level, baseball wasn't gonna dictate where he would go to school.
I think Wave has read in some book that the perfect college applicant has to list lots of EC's. So the real answer to his question is that colleges prefer the applicant to have a passion for his EC's. Playing and excelling at the same sport will look better on your college application, than jumping around from one sport to another or just being on the team so you can list it on your application.
However, wouldn't it be wiser to let your kid decide what he wants to be involved in. Instead of overplanning his future, why not let his future be detemined by who he really is. If he is an over achiever (as you are so quick to label him), then he will be fine, no matter what path he chooses.
What you don't seem to understand is that sometimes people do things, like play baseball or even coach baseball, because they have a passion for it and they are rewarded for their work in ways other than money.
However, wouldn't it be wiser to let your kid decide what he wants to be involved in. Instead of overplanning his future, why not let his future be detemined by who he really is. If he is an over achiever (as you are so quick to label him), then he will be fine, no matter what path he chooses.
What you don't seem to understand is that sometimes people do things, like play baseball or even coach baseball, because they have a passion for it and they are rewarded for their work in ways other than money.
Wave:
I've read through all of this and will take your questions at face value.
You ask: why four years of baseball? Why not try five different sports?
First off, it is easily possible to play two different sports for four years, so there is no reason that a kid has to limit himself to one sport.
You ask "why not try five different sports?"
A kid could certainly do that. He or she could easily "try" five different sports. But it is almost impossible to be GOOD at five sports.
I don't know about your son, but my son wants to be good at the sports he plays, and that requires focused, sustained effort. If a kid approached sports like a bumblebee on a flower garden, there is no way he is going to be good at every sport.
I don't care what the sport is - every single one, whether it is cross country running, lacrosse, football or baseball, there are skills, understandings and abilities to develop that take lots of time and effort.
Flitting to one sport then another because you want to "experience" them would almost guarantee that the one thing your son never experienced was excellence at any one of those sports. And that, in my view, would be a tragedy. Kids LOVE to be good at things. Whatever it is. The only way to get good at something is focused effort.
Would you tell your kid to spend one year on the debate team, one year on the chess team, one year on the math team, and one year on the robotics team? Probably not. He would never really achieve anything in any one of those fields if he did that. Why would sports be any different?
To be successful at any profession requires the same thing - focused, sustained effort. I don't care whether that profession is driving a truck, teaching, investment banking or nursing. Heck, to be successful in a marriage requires the same thing!
We don't do our kids any favors, in my opinion, by encouraging the "bee in a flower garden" approach to sports.
Sounds to me, actually, that your son likes baseball and wants to play it in HS for four years. But you don't like the game all that much, perhaps (reading between the lines here) because you think it is somehow lowbrow or not as intellectual as other sports in some way.
There is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that erroneous notion, so I won't try. But I would challenge you to find another message board in any other sport in the world that has as many thoughtful, insightful, helpful, accomplished and intelligent people, no matter what their personal educational or professional background might be.
Time and again, in my experience with baseball, I have seen the fear you have expressed disproven. In fact, if intellectual/academic stimulation is your primary goal for your son in HS sports, I would steer him TOWARD baseball, not away from it!
I've read through all of this and will take your questions at face value.
You ask: why four years of baseball? Why not try five different sports?
First off, it is easily possible to play two different sports for four years, so there is no reason that a kid has to limit himself to one sport.
You ask "why not try five different sports?"
A kid could certainly do that. He or she could easily "try" five different sports. But it is almost impossible to be GOOD at five sports.
I don't know about your son, but my son wants to be good at the sports he plays, and that requires focused, sustained effort. If a kid approached sports like a bumblebee on a flower garden, there is no way he is going to be good at every sport.
I don't care what the sport is - every single one, whether it is cross country running, lacrosse, football or baseball, there are skills, understandings and abilities to develop that take lots of time and effort.
Flitting to one sport then another because you want to "experience" them would almost guarantee that the one thing your son never experienced was excellence at any one of those sports. And that, in my view, would be a tragedy. Kids LOVE to be good at things. Whatever it is. The only way to get good at something is focused effort.
Would you tell your kid to spend one year on the debate team, one year on the chess team, one year on the math team, and one year on the robotics team? Probably not. He would never really achieve anything in any one of those fields if he did that. Why would sports be any different?
To be successful at any profession requires the same thing - focused, sustained effort. I don't care whether that profession is driving a truck, teaching, investment banking or nursing. Heck, to be successful in a marriage requires the same thing!
We don't do our kids any favors, in my opinion, by encouraging the "bee in a flower garden" approach to sports.
Sounds to me, actually, that your son likes baseball and wants to play it in HS for four years. But you don't like the game all that much, perhaps (reading between the lines here) because you think it is somehow lowbrow or not as intellectual as other sports in some way.
There is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that erroneous notion, so I won't try. But I would challenge you to find another message board in any other sport in the world that has as many thoughtful, insightful, helpful, accomplished and intelligent people, no matter what their personal educational or professional background might be.
Time and again, in my experience with baseball, I have seen the fear you have expressed disproven. In fact, if intellectual/academic stimulation is your primary goal for your son in HS sports, I would steer him TOWARD baseball, not away from it!
Outstanding post, Rob Kremer! 
As RJM noted, you asked this same question May of 2008. Your son was 14 and now would be 15. I am curious why the same question concerning a 15yo ? He hasn't really been tested academically or athletically.
My sons summer team has 8 honors students out of 12. Other 4 are also good students. Two are ranked #1 at their schools. My son is in honors above 4.0, took Explore test (freshman SAT in IL.), scored top 1% in nation.
If the kid wants to play let him play, unless you want him to hold it agianst you the rest of your life. You are only a kid once, let him be a kid once in awhile.
Great post Rob Kremer you are one of the great "wordsmiths" on this site.
If the kid wants to play let him play, unless you want him to hold it agianst you the rest of your life. You are only a kid once, let him be a kid once in awhile.
Great post Rob Kremer you are one of the great "wordsmiths" on this site.
Sounds like you want your son to be a "Jack of all trades; Master of none".
Plus - if he's always working to improve himself through varying activities when does he get a chance to enjoy the activities he likes?
Plus - if he's always working to improve himself through varying activities when does he get a chance to enjoy the activities he likes?
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I'm with Infield08 on this one. Nice job Rob.
I'm with Infield08 on this one. Nice job Rob.
One thing is overlooked in all that wave speaks of----a player can want to "try" 5 sports but in HS it isnt sign up and you play---you have to make the team by trying out
wave---there is real world outside of yours
wave---there is real world outside of yours
I posted and deleted the following last night. I didn't want to brag. Besides, it's hardly unique to this board.quote:Originally posted by wave:
Thank you. Please do share your experience. I am sure we all learn something from such discussion.
The reason I limit the discussion for a small group of students is that this group needs more help than other since they are less likely to excel in pro or even D1 sports. By widening their horizon, they may have a more balanced life in high school.
Question: why 4 year baseball? Why not a couple years here and there. Why not try 5 different sports.
Again, all my statements are never intended for individuals. They are meaningful only in a statistic sense.
My son has an unweighted gpa of 3.7. His weighted gpa is over 4.0. He takes six high honors courses and two gifted program courses (the only two available/genuis IQ required). He'll take four AP courses next year. He's scored an 800 on his math PSAT. He played football, basketball and baseball in middle school while also playing travel s****r in the fall. He played s****r, basketball and baseball his freshman year. This year he's the only soph starting on two varsity sports in a large high school. He also does volunteer work for the Miracle League. Athletics absolutely gets in the way of his school work. He often has to leave school early for sports. He often comes home tired. But I'd rather have a well rounded kid with a sense of community with his gpa, than be a **** with a perfect gpa.
My daughter was not as intellectually gifted, but graduated with a 3.6. She scored over 2000 on her SAT's. She played volleyball, track and softball, earning eleven varsity letters. She played two years of college softball before receiving an internship in DC that was too good of a resume builder to turn down. She's one year away from graduating PBK. She has a 3.96 gpa. She scored in the top 10% on her LSAT's without prepping for them.
Sports have provided my kids an education that goes beyond the classroom. They've learned teamwork, leadership, sacrifice and time management. I wouldn't turn back the clock and have them do it any other way.
For the record, I have a friend who attended Harvard and graduated with honors. Another friend took seven years to get through Johnston State. He spent seven years skipping classes getting stoned and skiing. Guess which one is the more successful businessman now? Hint: It's not the Harvard guy.
You can't judge people based on grades and board scores. I know people with tremendous intellectually capabilities who can't find their way to the end of the street.
My background: Three varsity sports in high school, college baseball, undergrad degree in economics, MBA, successful bunsinessman. I was a good, not great student despite great academic potenial. I was told my downfall would be too much interest in girls and sports. What's really important is I have a great family, everything I need and a lot of what I want. After two years in the real world grades are irrelevant.
Yup girl sports will drag you down !
When I was talking to the Dean of Law at the Un I attended he told me the best Lawyers were the middle of the road guys who were well rounded. They have to deal with the real people every day not just the elite minds.
My one brother entered college at 15yo and said he regretted that because he wasn't socially adjusted. Everyone was at least 2 years older.
When I was talking to the Dean of Law at the Un I attended he told me the best Lawyers were the middle of the road guys who were well rounded. They have to deal with the real people every day not just the elite minds.
My one brother entered college at 15yo and said he regretted that because he wasn't socially adjusted. Everyone was at least 2 years older.
Hi,
Seems like this all boils down to the individual player's choice. If he wants to compete at the varsity level, it requires a top notch varsity level commitment.
If he desires a lesser commitment, in order to participate in a wider breadth of activities, then there are numerous recreational leagues available. And that isn't a bad thing... that is why they exist!
I once asked my son if an outfit looked good on me before heading out for the evening. He looked at me and replied; "Not my decision."
I would humbly submit that this decision isn't yours either. Present the positives of each option and let the boy choose! Support his choice!
Isn't this a wonderful problem to have? The activities that our kids have a chance to experience? We are truly blessed.
Seems like this all boils down to the individual player's choice. If he wants to compete at the varsity level, it requires a top notch varsity level commitment.
If he desires a lesser commitment, in order to participate in a wider breadth of activities, then there are numerous recreational leagues available. And that isn't a bad thing... that is why they exist!
I once asked my son if an outfit looked good on me before heading out for the evening. He looked at me and replied; "Not my decision."
I would humbly submit that this decision isn't yours either. Present the positives of each option and let the boy choose! Support his choice!
Isn't this a wonderful problem to have? The activities that our kids have a chance to experience? We are truly blessed.
.
You've got yourself a real keeper there BaseballMom. Wisdom well beyond his years. Very rare anymore!
quote:Originally posted by BaseballMom10:
I once asked my son if an outfit looked good on me before heading out for the evening. He looked at me and replied; "Not my decision."
You've got yourself a real keeper there BaseballMom. Wisdom well beyond his years. Very rare anymore!
lol.....there are idiot underachievers/overachievers everywhere.
I coach baseball and teach physics with a masters degree.
Guess it depends on your def. of success.
I coach baseball and teach physics with a masters degree.
Guess it depends on your def. of success.
quote:After two years in the real world grades are irrelevant.
Or two hours.
RJM... all the buddies that guy made skiing paid off didn't they!
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As you say d8..."God gets blamed for alot of things God did not do."
And in Isaac's calculation G= God...right?
As you say d8..."God gets blamed for alot of things God did not do."
And in Isaac's calculation G= God...right?
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
For what it's worth the original poster was last on the site one year ago stirring the same pot.
Thanks RJM..........you just saved me from wasting any time on this thread...
quote:Are high school Baseball coaches good role model for high achievers
This was the title of this discussion. The simple answer is... Some are and some aren't!
There are good and bad role models in every thing. There are good and bad coaches, good and bad students, good and bad athletes, good and bad teachers, good and bad parents, good and bad HSBBW posters.
Note: It's possible that a terrible baseball coach could be the best role model your son ever had.
I doubt anyone here really cares, how many sports someone elses son participates in or how intelligent someone elses kid might be. It's tough enough taking care of our own. We all need some luck on our side!
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Apples PG...apples! You forgot apples.
"There are good and bad apples."
Good
Bad
Apples PG...apples! You forgot apples.
"There are good and bad apples."
Good
Bad
SAT of 700 (2100 cumulative) with 4.0 GPA alone is good but not good enough to get into a top ranked academic program with a highly rated baseball program, ie Stanford. If your son is not one of the best players in the league and looks at practice as an unproductive use of time, he would be better off getting a part time job.
The kid is 15. Whose tugging on whose leg ?
A strange question. My son would probably say he has more than one role model and learns positive things from each. His HS coach attended and played for a prestigious New England college and teaches English Lit in HS, and is one of the most interesting and intelligent people you'll ever meet. Son thinks of him as a a good coach whom he respects on and off the field and in the classroom. Is he a role model for high-achievement? I'd say so, but my son may have his own ideas about what "high achievement" means. If it means salary, he may not be a role model. If it means leadership and intelligence and academic excellence, then he is a good role model.
My son also swims in the off season. More time is devoted to practices, no doubt, but a lot of it is early morning. And there are hours and hours of down time during meets to study! Hard to study during ball games.
My son also swims in the off season. More time is devoted to practices, no doubt, but a lot of it is early morning. And there are hours and hours of down time during meets to study! Hard to study during ball games.