Take it away, Vance...........
FO, wish I could take away all your FALSE information.
Vance,
Since you are in the know, what is the percentage of those full, guaranteed 4-year scholarships (I think they are part of the negotiation process) that are ever used?
I believe MLB holds the $ in escrow; boy I'd like to have a % of THAT float!
Since you are in the know, what is the percentage of those full, guaranteed 4-year scholarships (I think they are part of the negotiation process) that are ever used?
I believe MLB holds the $ in escrow; boy I'd like to have a % of THAT float!
Vance, you point out what is false, and I'll delete it.
quote:Originally posted by FormerObserver:
You won't have that problem this year, will you...........
Nope, cause I'll be chasing the crappie, training the dog, and taking care of the coolest little dude I have ever laid eyes on.
The pressures of select coaching just beat me down.
I'm recharging my batteries in order to pursue a 9 year old YMCA team one day.
But I'm trying to get my arm in shape in case I get an Area Code invite to throw BP.........
Now that is a skill.
quote:Originally posted by Dad0406:
Vance,
Since you are in the know, what is the percentage of those full, guaranteed 4-year scholarships (I think they are part of the negotiation process) that are ever used?
I believe MLB holds the $ in escrow; boy I'd like to have a % of THAT float!
Yes, Vance or whoever can help --- how does the professional player fund/scholarship thing work? Of the young professional players I know, none of them are on that program. I've got a relative who said he was offered that versus increased cash and he took the cash instead. If that is the case, then it's not really an extra benefit it's just an under the cover switch of funding.
According to Vance kids should sit around banging a tennis ball off the garage all summer until the next showcase so that they can talk to and answer questions from a scout that doesn't gain anything from the MLB club to get the kid drafted and signed. They need not bother to get instruction or learn how to really play the game but get that arm stronger and keep it entirely safe so that they can then be compared to the other kids at the event, have their esteem judged, be drafted, make millions and live happily ever after.
But what about the other 99.9% of the kids that will never be afforded those opportunities beyond just trying out for AC or spending three hundred bucks to attend some over-hyped, jackleg showcase that they get nothing out of?
I have personally been dealing with scouts and colleges every summer for the past twelve years. They seem to learn plenty about the kids by watching them in a competitive environment against other quality kids. It’s not so much about whether or not they hit three bombs or struck out thirteen but rather the quality of their tools, their composure in certain game situations and how they handle themselves as a person. The guys that are making the decisions about scholarship money or draft potential need to know these things and they need to see the kid more than once or twice and definitely in game situations. Why do you think the MLB teams have so many in-home visits leading up to the draft and check out the kids so thoroughly that they pull back his lip to see his gums? And when exactly do the colleges have time to come see the kid play in a game during the HS season?
And as for scouts being your best friend? Just like in any walk of life there are good and bad people involved in everything. Known scouts to be very truthful and honest and others to have been deceitful and misleading. Have not known many to tell a kid to go ahead and turn down money to pursue an education while playing college ball. It’s a business and their employers require them to observe and report - not to disclose every tidbit of information that will be helpful to a family with a hard decision to make.
I personally have no problem with the AC tryout during the summer but think that kids should temper their enthusiasm about it as a be-all-end-all. The truth is it’s a cattle call for baseball players but if you have something that sets you apart you just might get noticed by somebody whether it’s a college coach or a scout. Those scouts though, they already know about the special kids - it’s their job to know. And the colleges? Do you think they’re going to offer an unheard of, surprisingly talented kid a scholly on the spot? Unlikely. Much more plausible that they are going to call his summer team or high school coach that night, get the summer schedule so they can follow him and inquire about his makeup. Then they’ll follow him again through the fall and maybe the spring before basing their decision on a lot of homework
And the AC event in August? We had four players from last summer’s DBAT team attend. Three with the Rangers and one with the White Sox. Did they all attend the AC tryouts for those teams? Nope. Why? Probably because the guys arranging those teams already knew who they wanted or recruited players to the team based on a specific need. Couple of them were told prior to the tryout that they were going to be selected to the AC team so just show up and throw a bullpen if you can. No more no less and then you can go home.
At the AC event one highly regarded pitcher from this area was instructed to throw about forty-five bullpen pitches for the scouts after he had already warmed up and before he took the mound for his two innings. Said he was so tired before he pitched in the game that he was running on fumes. So did they have his health and best interest at heart by running him into the ground that day so they could see him just one more time out of the twenty times they had already been to his HS and summer games to watch him? Did this help his status or was he just a commodity being examined?
As for cost to go to AC, it’s not cheap. One of our kids had a fund raiser to pay for he and his family to attend. They enjoyed the experience. Was it beneficial to him potentially being drafted? Who knows. I have to think he would be drafted pretty high anyway had he not gone. Would the players have skipped the World Series in Farmington to go had we made it? We’ll never know because we didn’t. Is it worth the risk of a pitcher to potentially hurt his draft status by pitching at the AC event in August after throwing all spring and summer armed with a wing that is without doubt not at its full strength and with the potential for overuse at the event? Not for me to answer.
My advice is to go to the AC tryout and do your best. Be prepared for a long day and the fact that you probably won’t be invited to Long Beach. Take from it what you can get and try your best to make an impression on somebody. Afterwards, go have a good dinner with friends or family and get back on the field the next day. Enjoy playing and learning the game and making memories with your teammates. If you’re one of the relatively few lucky ones that we may get to watch on TV one day…..relish the opportunities that are coming your way and try your best to not believe all the hype – whether good or bad.
Finally, to imply that kids injure their arms from summer ball is ridiculous. I’d like to also add that not all select programs are based upon the need to make money. Not that it matters to anybody reading but our teams don’t make a dime. Lose quite a bit actually due to the generosity of Cade and Kyle Griffis at DBAT.
But what about the other 99.9% of the kids that will never be afforded those opportunities beyond just trying out for AC or spending three hundred bucks to attend some over-hyped, jackleg showcase that they get nothing out of?
I have personally been dealing with scouts and colleges every summer for the past twelve years. They seem to learn plenty about the kids by watching them in a competitive environment against other quality kids. It’s not so much about whether or not they hit three bombs or struck out thirteen but rather the quality of their tools, their composure in certain game situations and how they handle themselves as a person. The guys that are making the decisions about scholarship money or draft potential need to know these things and they need to see the kid more than once or twice and definitely in game situations. Why do you think the MLB teams have so many in-home visits leading up to the draft and check out the kids so thoroughly that they pull back his lip to see his gums? And when exactly do the colleges have time to come see the kid play in a game during the HS season?
And as for scouts being your best friend? Just like in any walk of life there are good and bad people involved in everything. Known scouts to be very truthful and honest and others to have been deceitful and misleading. Have not known many to tell a kid to go ahead and turn down money to pursue an education while playing college ball. It’s a business and their employers require them to observe and report - not to disclose every tidbit of information that will be helpful to a family with a hard decision to make.
I personally have no problem with the AC tryout during the summer but think that kids should temper their enthusiasm about it as a be-all-end-all. The truth is it’s a cattle call for baseball players but if you have something that sets you apart you just might get noticed by somebody whether it’s a college coach or a scout. Those scouts though, they already know about the special kids - it’s their job to know. And the colleges? Do you think they’re going to offer an unheard of, surprisingly talented kid a scholly on the spot? Unlikely. Much more plausible that they are going to call his summer team or high school coach that night, get the summer schedule so they can follow him and inquire about his makeup. Then they’ll follow him again through the fall and maybe the spring before basing their decision on a lot of homework
And the AC event in August? We had four players from last summer’s DBAT team attend. Three with the Rangers and one with the White Sox. Did they all attend the AC tryouts for those teams? Nope. Why? Probably because the guys arranging those teams already knew who they wanted or recruited players to the team based on a specific need. Couple of them were told prior to the tryout that they were going to be selected to the AC team so just show up and throw a bullpen if you can. No more no less and then you can go home.
At the AC event one highly regarded pitcher from this area was instructed to throw about forty-five bullpen pitches for the scouts after he had already warmed up and before he took the mound for his two innings. Said he was so tired before he pitched in the game that he was running on fumes. So did they have his health and best interest at heart by running him into the ground that day so they could see him just one more time out of the twenty times they had already been to his HS and summer games to watch him? Did this help his status or was he just a commodity being examined?
As for cost to go to AC, it’s not cheap. One of our kids had a fund raiser to pay for he and his family to attend. They enjoyed the experience. Was it beneficial to him potentially being drafted? Who knows. I have to think he would be drafted pretty high anyway had he not gone. Would the players have skipped the World Series in Farmington to go had we made it? We’ll never know because we didn’t. Is it worth the risk of a pitcher to potentially hurt his draft status by pitching at the AC event in August after throwing all spring and summer armed with a wing that is without doubt not at its full strength and with the potential for overuse at the event? Not for me to answer.
My advice is to go to the AC tryout and do your best. Be prepared for a long day and the fact that you probably won’t be invited to Long Beach. Take from it what you can get and try your best to make an impression on somebody. Afterwards, go have a good dinner with friends or family and get back on the field the next day. Enjoy playing and learning the game and making memories with your teammates. If you’re one of the relatively few lucky ones that we may get to watch on TV one day…..relish the opportunities that are coming your way and try your best to not believe all the hype – whether good or bad.
Finally, to imply that kids injure their arms from summer ball is ridiculous. I’d like to also add that not all select programs are based upon the need to make money. Not that it matters to anybody reading but our teams don’t make a dime. Lose quite a bit actually due to the generosity of Cade and Kyle Griffis at DBAT.
Vance, I am curious then. Player A is a highly touted by the scouts Player B is on the radar but maybe a 6 to 10th rounder. Player A High School team just cannot field the ball or hit the ball. Player A ends season his season 7-5. Era of 2.55. Still has the heat, placement, all tools intact. Player B team just has incredible fielding and batting and goes all the way to state. He is throwing a lil harder than previous. Has good control. His ERA is 1.25 his W-L Record is 12-1. I know very hypothetical but still curious the same.
Vance is partially correct - the senior high school season is probably MORE important for a draft eligible player because it is the LAST season just before the June 6 draft. That makes sense for obvious reasons - the most important baseball season is the current one (or most current).
Still, to say that summer ball is NOT important is not right either. Summer ball is a great chance to get "noticed" by scouts and college recruiters. In fact college coaches cannot scout at all until the summer since they are immersed in their own spring college seasons during high school ball. The other obvious benefit of summer ball (at least very competitive summer ball) is the chance for the player to further develop his skills playing against a very high level of competition.
For college recruiting I would say that the summer season between the junior and senior years is probably the most "important" season since that is the season that begins the early recruitment process.
Anyway, all the seasons are important.
Where the arm problems come into play is when the Fall and certainly Winter seasons are used for continual baseball playing. In my opinion the Fall season should be much less intense than the summer season. Taking every other weekend off in regard to tournaments or double headers I think would be a good idea. And November - December should be definite "no baseball" times. Some young kids I know play almost year around because their parents are scared to death that they might "lose their edge" if they take some time off.
Anyway, I got off subject. But I would say this - for ML Draft the senior high school season is most important. For college recruiting it would be the summer between the junior and senior years. But BOTH high school and summer seasons are important for player development and recruiting.
Still, to say that summer ball is NOT important is not right either. Summer ball is a great chance to get "noticed" by scouts and college recruiters. In fact college coaches cannot scout at all until the summer since they are immersed in their own spring college seasons during high school ball. The other obvious benefit of summer ball (at least very competitive summer ball) is the chance for the player to further develop his skills playing against a very high level of competition.
For college recruiting I would say that the summer season between the junior and senior years is probably the most "important" season since that is the season that begins the early recruitment process.
Anyway, all the seasons are important.
Where the arm problems come into play is when the Fall and certainly Winter seasons are used for continual baseball playing. In my opinion the Fall season should be much less intense than the summer season. Taking every other weekend off in regard to tournaments or double headers I think would be a good idea. And November - December should be definite "no baseball" times. Some young kids I know play almost year around because their parents are scared to death that they might "lose their edge" if they take some time off.
Anyway, I got off subject. But I would say this - for ML Draft the senior high school season is most important. For college recruiting it would be the summer between the junior and senior years. But BOTH high school and summer seasons are important for player development and recruiting.
Penja, sounds like your saying player A has better Tools but was on a bad team. Player A still is better player in a scouts eye.
So for the vast majority of the players, since such a miniscule percentage will be serious draft choices, the senior season is not the most important?
Crawdad, didn't say summer ball wasn't important. Just said 150 games isn't that important or even a 100. Summer ball has worth, good worth.
What I did say in other terms was this.
DBAT and all his select buddies and all the indoor facility guys CHARGE an arm and a leg to coach baseball, teach baseball. You know what the problem is They'd change Mickey Mantle to if he walked through the door!
DBAT, what I said was THROW a BALL, not hit a tennis ball! Its all important, the select team the showcase whatever, etc. What is crazy is to charge a hard working family 5,000 bucks to allow a kid to play. DBAT, why not let them play for free? Why not teach skills free? Tell me DBAT how much do you charge to change good hitters to bad ones?
What I did say in other terms was this.
DBAT and all his select buddies and all the indoor facility guys CHARGE an arm and a leg to coach baseball, teach baseball. You know what the problem is They'd change Mickey Mantle to if he walked through the door!
DBAT, what I said was THROW a BALL, not hit a tennis ball! Its all important, the select team the showcase whatever, etc. What is crazy is to charge a hard working family 5,000 bucks to allow a kid to play. DBAT, why not let them play for free? Why not teach skills free? Tell me DBAT how much do you charge to change good hitters to bad ones?
Vance,
It pains me to know that you get paid..........
Do you work for free?
DBAT is very good at what they do and deserve to be paid what the market will bear for their time.
We don't need the money argument here.
It pains me to know that you get paid..........
Do you work for free?
DBAT is very good at what they do and deserve to be paid what the market will bear for their time.
We don't need the money argument here.
College Sch plan is given along with the bonus. UNLESS a player would rather have that money in hand.
When the player registers for class, the school bills the Commisioners office. They in turn send payment to the school.
The player has until the end of the 2nd year AFTER he no longer is playing to use the scholarship or he looses it. However, in most cases the player can petition the Commisioners office for a 3rd year.
Its a great plan, BUT up to the player to use.
When the player registers for class, the school bills the Commisioners office. They in turn send payment to the school.
The player has until the end of the 2nd year AFTER he no longer is playing to use the scholarship or he looses it. However, in most cases the player can petition the Commisioners office for a 3rd year.
Its a great plan, BUT up to the player to use.
Vance, $5000 to play and 100-150 games are absurd numbers to be thowing out about summer ball. I was curious about your posts for a while but your misleading information and exaggerations have caused you to lose credibillity with me. You have entered CoCo Coocoo Puff territory.
If you're really a scout or someone involved in the baseball business - come see me at a ball game this summer and we can discuss the merits of your observations. Our schedule is posted on the web site below....
If you're really a scout or someone involved in the baseball business - come see me at a ball game this summer and we can discuss the merits of your observations. Our schedule is posted on the web site below....
FO, what pains me is ALL the money spent by innocent parents. Thank the good Lord that there was none of that when I was growing up because I would have never gotten to play. My parents worked hard for a living.
quote:Tell me DBAT how much do you charge to change good hitters to bad ones?
Vance,
Don't go there. That's just not right. DBAT does a great job with their instruction. Go ask Matthew Sulentic where he learned to hit.
CooCoo,
The innocent parents ain't complaining.
You are.
And, you haven't even had to pay.
The innocent parents ain't complaining.
You are.
And, you haven't even had to pay.
DBAT, it is happening! Tell me DBAT what is the fee to play on a select team with the DBATS. Also, tell me what you charge for an hour lesson?
Tell me DBAT, how many Games does a player on your team play in one calender year? Thats summer, fall, spring and winter.
Credibility, ok. And making MICKEY MANTLE into a non prospect IS CREDIBLE??
Tell me DBAT, how many Games does a player on your team play in one calender year? Thats summer, fall, spring and winter.
Credibility, ok. And making MICKEY MANTLE into a non prospect IS CREDIBLE??
quote:The player has until the end of the 2nd year AFTER he no longer is playing to use the scholarship or heloosesit. However, in most cases the player can petition the Commisioners office for a 3rd year.
loses!
Can someone direct me to the thread on Area Code? I wanted to post something on it. Which thread is this one?
OLD PITCHER
OOPS
OOPS
Maybe scouts should charge a 100 bucks a player for a tryout camp. Bet 400 kids would show up!
quote:OLD PITCHER
OOPS
No Problema Vance!!
Some of just have pet peeves is all!!!
quote:Credibility, ok. And making MICKEY MANTLE into a non prospect IS CREDIBLE??
Vance,
Just what are you talking about here? Just curious.
I'm movin' to the southwest part of area code 432. Gotta be simpler and friendlier there. 
Hows the song go?
NOTHIN FOR FREE...
I wonder how many kids don't play because Parents can't pay?
NOTHIN FOR FREE...
I wonder how many kids don't play because Parents can't pay?
Old Pitcher, what I'm talking about is that if MICKEY MANTLE had walked into a indoor facility they'd tell him he had a bad swing and then they'd charge him to work his HALL OF FAME skills out into a NON PROSPECT.
quote:Originally posted by AdultOpinion:
I'm movin' to the southwest part of area code 432. Gotta be simpler and friendlier there.
Hey, I grew up in area code 432 (915 back then) and it is simpler there.
quote:Old Pitcher, what I'm talking about is that if MICKEY MANTLE had walked into a indoor facility they'd tell him he had a bad swing and then they'd charge him to work his HALL OF FAME skills out into a NON PROSPECT.
First of all, who is THEY?
Second of all, what makes you think this?
T BIRD and ADULT O
Great response. Needed that. Thanks.
Great response. Needed that. Thanks.
Old Pitcher
They is the instructors at the indoor facility.
What makes me say/ think this.
Well can you tell me where ALL this players are they are instructing? Texas has less prospects for 07 than Nevada does. NOW THAT IS SAD!
They is the instructors at the indoor facility.
What makes me say/ think this.
Well can you tell me where ALL this players are they are instructing? Texas has less prospects for 07 than Nevada does. NOW THAT IS SAD!
quote:Vance said:
DBAT and all his select buddies and all the indoor facility guys CHARGE an arm and a leg to coach baseball, teach baseball. You know what the problem is They'd change Mickey Mantle to if he walked through the door!
Old Pitcher, what I'm talking about is that if MICKEY MANTLE had walked into a indoor facility they'd tell him he had a bad swing and then they'd charge him to work his HALL OF FAME skills out into a NON PROSPECT.
They is the instructors at the indoor facility.
Maybe if the Select teams would CUT DOWN to say ONLY a 100 games instead of 150. Maybe the kids could get to some of the showcase events. You know there are more HS kids having Tommy John and Labrum surgery than ever before.
What is crazy is to charge a hard working family 5,000 bucks to allow a kid to play. DBAT, why not let them play for free? Why not teach skills free? Tell me DBAT how much do you charge to change good hitters to bad ones?
DBAT, it is happening! Tell me DBAT what is the fee to play on a select team with the DBATS. Also, tell me what you charge for an hour lesson?
Credibility, ok. And making MICKEY MANTLE into a non prospect IS CREDIBLE??
Well can you tell me where ALL this players are they are instructing? Texas has less prospects for 07 than Nevada does. NOW THAT IS SAD
I apologize to all to stray from the original AC content of this thread but felt I should respond to Vance one last time as he seems to have a significant chip on his shoulders and a desire to misinform people either through purpose or ignorance.
First: I do not work at the DBAT facility and do not personally give lessons. You're barking up the wrong tree there and unjustly so at that. Many instructors throughout the area provide a valuable service to ballplayers and deserve to be compensated for that service.
Second: Once all tournaments, league fees, 3 sets of uniforms, equipment and all expenses have been factored in it's about $15-20K that we are out up-front for the summer team. That stuff isn't free you know. Then the owners of DBAT generously throw in a significant amount of that $15-20K to offset the cost to the families. The remaining amount is then divided out based upon the number of players. I can attest to the fact that not a single dollar goes into the DBAT coffers. I suppose it would be ideal if someone ponied up the entire cost of the team but that is not generally feasible - especially when DBAT has three teams. As you can see it is a far cry from the $5K per player you suggested for the 50-60 games that we play during the summer.
Third: The number of prospects in Nevada, South Dakota, Maine or Kuwait compared to Texas is as meaningless as your Mickey Mantle comment which was so random and silly that it takes away credibility from any other statements you have made in this thread.
From this point on should you need further enlightenment about how we run our summer program please e-mail me directly so we don't have to bore the readers here.
DBAT, you have a PM. On a different topic.
Tell me how the Texas team performed last year at Area Code and I'll tell you what I think about last year's tryouts.
Back at ya Texan.
DBAT, ok, not barking. Thanks. Still simple questions not answered. Guess you don't know. Which is ok.
All I'm saying is don't bash Area Code. Kids playing baseball is a good thing. The price that it takes to play in todays world is a bad thing.
My Mickey Mantle comment is a true one. Ever watch a lesson. Ever see a coach just say "Good swing" keep it up. Keep your money you're a good hitter already!
All I'm saying is don't bash Area Code. Kids playing baseball is a good thing. The price that it takes to play in todays world is a bad thing.
My Mickey Mantle comment is a true one. Ever watch a lesson. Ever see a coach just say "Good swing" keep it up. Keep your money you're a good hitter already!
DBAT,
I find it interesting what some of the baseball community thinks a team earns in profits.
If they only knew exactly how much DBAT actually lost in monies spent.
Not counting the money the coaches spent out of their own pockets.
Not counting the vacation time spent to travel the country satisfying players and families in what is considered "must attend" events.
Although you and I have had our differences, I can appreciate the time you and others have spent helping young players.
I find it interesting what some of the baseball community thinks a team earns in profits.
If they only knew exactly how much DBAT actually lost in monies spent.
Not counting the money the coaches spent out of their own pockets.
Not counting the vacation time spent to travel the country satisfying players and families in what is considered "must attend" events.
Although you and I have had our differences, I can appreciate the time you and others have spent helping young players.
One fine example of all of this is..........
Dallas Wildcats.
How many Area Code players did they have?
I, for, respected the team concept they portrayed last summer. As an outsider, it was the summer like the one they had what that is the true essence of amatuer baseball.
Dallas Wildcats.
How many Area Code players did they have?
I, for, respected the team concept they portrayed last summer. As an outsider, it was the summer like the one they had what that is the true essence of amatuer baseball.
I told Rusty that after catching lightening in a bottle last summer he should have retired at the top of his game....
Ken, you forgot to add:
All the times the wife says:
"You have another game tonight???"
Or when the kids say:
"Hi, Dad. Remember us?"
Or, my personal favorite:
"You just got home from a doubleheader - why do you have to rehash it for three hours on the phone with the coaches?"
Ahhhhh...but it's baseball.
Ken, you forgot to add:
All the times the wife says:
"You have another game tonight???"
Or when the kids say:
"Hi, Dad. Remember us?"
Or, my personal favorite:
"You just got home from a doubleheader - why do you have to rehash it for three hours on the phone with the coaches?"
Ahhhhh...but it's baseball.