Arm Issues/Advice

I would never risk further injury - get him the proper care and rehab and focus on getting him healthy for summer ball . "I know we should shut him down NOW and look to the summer" - follow that instinct.

NorCalBBDad posted:

... here is the diagnosis: "Stress reaction to bones connecting Ulnar Collateral Ligament with chronic UCL thickening."

Prescription: "Rest two more weeks followed by video throwing analysis/physical therapy, return to throw over next 4-6 weeks anticipated."

....

It was my hope to portray this as a "tweak" if anyone asked, that he has rested it and he should be good. Be smart during the tryout... stretch out and warm up properly, and gas it only when needed and see if he can make the team by hook or by crook. Then, if he makes the team, come in with the doctor's note (properly dated, of course) showing that he needs the rest and rehab. Good to go in six weeks, hopefully. ...

He draws much of his personal identity and self esteem from that. Not making the team will be devastating to him - there will be many pieces to be picked up. I've always told him that we're playing a long game here. He's 6'2", 140. He's still growing. He needs to bulk up and get stronger, and he will. The fastball MPH will come with that. He's not going to get noticed as a junior anyhow, at least not during the season. ...

So he's going to go for it. It didn't seem like the arm was in any immediate danger and he's said he's going to be smart about the tryout. ...

...Last season on JV he threw five innings over three months. His arm strength deteriorated so much in season that it took almost two months to get it back up to speed in summer ball. If he makes Varsity I expect things will play out much the same. If I thought he was in immediate trouble I'd shut him down for sure.

So ... what would you do? How honest should we be with the coach? I don't think he'd be willing to take him "on spec" or based on the JV coach's recommendation, or that he'd be willing to push my son's tryout six weeks down the road. ...

Obviously, there is an issue (and there has been for a while if his arm strength deteriorated that much during last HS season) and, if I'm reading correctly, you are planning on going against doc's recommendations.  I don't think that is smart at all.  Sounds like the kid's baseball future is clearly on the bump and you are risking worsening an injured arm. 

Look, your kid is established as, at least, an important piece of the JV rotation if healthy.  He doesn't stand to be an impact guy at V, particularly not with an ailing arm.  Prioritize following doc's orders to a T and get the arm fully healthy.  Ramping the arm back up after proper rest and PT will take some time.  He won't be able to immediately jump back on the bump.  That's reality. 

The good news - regarding his potential college playing future, he has several things on his side.  He is not throwing hard enough to warrant D1 interest at this point so his recruiting sweetspot won't be until this coming summer and later.  He has very projectable size.  He is attending a training center where he is likely getting continued guidance for pitching refinement, strengthening and velo improvement.  So, rushing back can only hurt.  Let the HS program coaches (and facility instructors) know exactly where he is at.  GET HEALTHY FIRST.  Then, work back gradually per expert's directives.  Then, see how he performs, how he improves and take it from there.  I know this is hard to deal with in the present but don't cave to what feels like immediate pressure of the HS season starting.   Come down from the ledge.

If he draws too much of his personal identity as a baseball player, there needs to be more balance.  What else makes your son your son?  Baseball ends at some point for all... it is important that there is much more to the player, the person.

Best advice I can give is to take care of his arm, first and foremost. He still has another year to get healthy, develop, and get stronger. I would highly recommend that he gets in with a high level PT with lots of baseball experience and top flight baseball training facility. I would also look for a biomechanical analysis, similar to driveline. I have learned over the years how poor timing during the pitching delivery can wear down an arm much quicker and expose a player to injury.

As the parent of a player who is just over five months post surgery on his throwing arm, I completely agree with BBMomAZ, cabbage, & coachld. Healthy first and follow PT orders exactly; then worry about baseball.

"I've always told him that we're playing a long game here."

I guess I don't understand that if you are playing the long game, why you would risk his future health?  

I have always believed in being upfront and transparent.  I would go talk to the coach, and let him know exactly what the situation is.  Since it is an injury, and your son's future is at stake, I think it is appropriate for you to talk to the coach.  Additionally, you mentioned that there are rumors that your son needs TJ, and it sounds like they have spun out of control.  I would assume the coach has heard this rumors as well.  I would clear them up, and then focus on getting son healthy.

rynoattack posted:

"I've always told him that we're playing a long game here."

I guess I don't understand that if you are playing the long game, why you would risk his future health?  

I have always believed in being upfront and transparent.  I would go talk to the coach, and let him know exactly what the situation is.  Since it is an injury, and your son's future is at stake, I think it is appropriate for you to talk to the coach.  Additionally, you mentioned that there are rumors that your son needs TJ, and it sounds like they have spun out of control.  I would assume the coach has heard this rumors as well.  I would clear them up, and then focus on getting son healthy.

YES, and, on the other hand, DON'T try to sugar coat it and make it sound like he'll likely be back in a few weeks.  You would just be setting your son and the coaches up for frustration.

He’s not going to improve playing injured. But he could get injured worse. It looks like very little potential for upside and a lot of potential for downside. 

Talk to the coach and be up front. Can he tryout for another position or does he only pitch? Definitely don't put his arm in jeopardy for sure.

Get healthy then pitch, needs to come clean with coach on the doctor recommendation and go from there. 

He's a pitcher only, so doesn't have any other options. I remember the old saw about playing with pain or discomfort as opposed to playing when injured, but it is tougher to apply when it is your son for sure. While there is cause for concern, he isn't, at this point, injured. When I told the doctor my thoughts, about just getting through tryouts and making the team, THEN shutting him down, she didn't say anything like "Oh my God no!" or "That is literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard" or "That idea is just ... the worst."

He did throw a bit last week, between the MRI and the review with the doctor, and didn't complain of pain. At the meeting the next day with the doctor, she could tell that things had gotten better from where they were a week before. That is what is fueling my interior debate on this.  I strongly suspect the weighted baseballs putting the extra strain on his arm.

But I can read the temperature of a room, and I know for sure that I'm not the smartest person in it. The JV coach is his travel ball coach. He's seen my son pitch for a year, and to be honest the best case scenario for him this year is to play JV and be one of the big three pitchers in the starting rotation. as opposed to making "Var" and pitching five innings in three months, as he did last year. I'll talk to the JV coach after practice tonight and lay everything out for him. To be honest, my biggest fear (other than the injury) would be the coaches saying to us "Well, if you had been honest with us from the beginning we probably could have worked something out, but now there's nothing we can do."

Thank you everyone for your input on this. I'll keep you posted.

Well, I certainly may have misinterpreted or not fully understood the terminology in your first post regarding the prognosis.  And, since I replied early, I may have led the thought process here down the injury path... apologies if that is not correct.  Of course, I defer to the medical expert in this situation.  You said specialist...  if you are comfortable that she has reasonable experience with sport/throwing specific injuries, great.  If not, a second opinion with a sports ortho with that point of emphasis may be something to consider.  The recurrence (among other things) still raises a red flag to me.  

Hoping for the best for him.

A player has nothing if not his health. Kudos to those here whose counsel is to do whatever is required to restore his health, being honest with coaches in the process  

NorCalBBDad,

The diagnosis is: He IS INJURED! Needs rest & therapy for 4-6 weeks! 

Please don't misinterpret what Doctor said!  It may not "present" as serious, but if he's not 100%, he's HURT & it wll only get worse if not properly tended to! 

My son is a pitcher. Dec 7, had surgery with 4 anchors to reattach Ulnar to the bone, wil be rehabbing till July, likely career just ended. 

You just never know "how many bullets are in the holster"...

Cabbage & others KNOW & gave you very sound advice. If playing in college is of ANY importance to your son, be honest with coaches, follow Dr & therapy protocol to a T. There is WAY TOO MUCH at risk to consider any other alternative! 

Additional thoughts for you and other parents of young pitchers:

”After fall baseball had finished up at the end of November, he had "rested" his arm, other than going to Power Throwing at a local pitching/baseball training center twice a week”

- So, in reality, there was zero rest!  HS, summer travel and fall ball through November is longer than a MLB grown man goes through. Then he does Power Throwing right after. Where's the rest?  Something for you and your son to commit to going forward: #NoThrowNovember

”hadn't thrown at all over Christmas break. Three weeks ago, he went to the training center and while throwing weighted baseball”

- The only break he took was followed up with a weighted ball program.  Was there any easing into this program, with regular throwing, given a little time off? Christmas break plus 3 weeks is pretty much today, so my guess is probably not.

Not trying to make you feel bad, but it seems there were some bad decisions starting this off season.  Do not make it worse by having him pitch g through fatigue, injury, etc.  It will only end up badly.

NorCalBBDad, I re-read your post & what really got my dander up, was that you wan't to call this a "TWEAK". WTH is that?       

"Stress reaction to bones connecting Ulnar Collateral Ligament with chronic UCL thickening."

Please allow me to emphasize the necessity for you AND your son to become experts on arm health & pitching technique. First of all,  let him recover 100%...Then, he needs a professional pitching coach to work on his mechanics and to prescribe a proper workout/conditioning routine, proper diet, etc. Pitching is an ART!  One cannot take shortcuts or do thing all "willy nilly" without serious consequences. 

I hope you/your son reconsider being deceptive with his Coaches. Think about it from a coaches perspective, is he going to buy a car with a sluggish engine, or a blown engine? Or a "rebuilt engine"?...Or a good running, healthy engine?   Food for thought! 

Yes, please do update us. 

NorCalBBDad posted:

I've always told him that we're playing a long game here. He's 6'2", 140. He's still growing. He needs to bulk up and get stronger, and he will. The fastball MPH will come with that. He's not going to get noticed as a junior anyhow, at least not during the season. Perhaps over the summer, with careful selection of showcases and college camps, he'll get some people to notice him and start tracking him, but there is nothing that can happen this season, given where he is right now and the talent ahead of him, to enhance his chances of playing after high school.

 

I think you have this part spot on. If he is truly a late bloomer and interested in pursuing college baseball at some level his best bet would be to sit out and get healthy for when the D3/NAIA showcases and camps heat up in August and Sept.

If it were me in this situation I would take the spring off and work out HARD until May/June to put some size on, eat a lot, and ease my way back into pitching. See where he is at towards the end of May/June and start targeting schools that might be interested. If he can get that velo up to even 84 he will be in a much better situation. August-Oct is where the main focus should be. 

It makes zero sense to risk further injury for hs baseball where he would be the bottom pitcher.  None. It doesn’t make sense regardless, but I don’t see this as a hard choice.

Norcal, Sincerely wish you and your son the best moving forward whatever you choose to do.

For me, this is a no brainer.

#1: Scrap the HS season. You are just throwing gas on the fire & he is admittedly not going to really be a factor at the Varsity level given current status.

#2:  6'2" 140. Forget throwing & get in the gym 4-5 days a week & get on a proper diet to add good, quality strength & mass.  

#3: Have him take the weighted baseball, turn towards a wooded area & throw it as far in the woods with his non throwing arm as possible & leave it there, forever.

Excellent advise, Steve A.

btw, from a former pro.... 

Get strong and follow the 90 mph formula by Dr. Heenan! It eliminates a significant amount of arm and elbow injuries! The velo will go up in the process of it too.

Baseballcomesthird posted:

Get strong and follow the 90 mph formula by Dr. Heenan! It eliminates a significant amount of arm and elbow injuries! The velo will go up in the process of it too.

Thank you for this info, I found it on YouTube!

To an extent, arm sleeves help in arm positioning and muscle control which is very important in baseball. Although it might not directly affect your aim or your grip

Shut him down or increase the possibilities that he may never play in college.  In my opinion high school kids for the most part are too young for weighted baseballs in training unless they are literally at Driveline’s facility doing the training.  Just my 2 cents

@3and2Fastball posted:

Shut him down or increase the possibilities that he may never play in college.  In my opinion high school kids for the most part are too young for weighted baseballs in training unless they are literally at Driveline’s facility doing the training.  Just my 2 cents

The kid was a junior in 18-19.

@RJM posted:

The kid was a junior in 18-19.

I stopped reading at Junior RHP that barely touches 80 mph. But what’s with these old threads getting revived for no apparent reason?

@adbono posted:

I stopped reading at Junior RHP that barely touches 80 mph. But what’s with these old threads getting revived for no apparent reason?

When old posts are revived it’s usually a new poster. They likely go back pages looking for something they can provide input. Being unfamiliar with the format they don’t notice the initial post date.

Well, this was a blast from the past! I did appreciate all the good advice from everyone. The conclusion:

He didn't say anything to the coach and tried to pitch through it. He didn't injure the arm any further, but he didn't make the team either, and he didn't get pushed down to JV.

He took that spring off, and his arm felt better. He went to a few showcases and camps over the summer, but his fastball topped out at 85 and he didn't get any attention. Long story short, he worked hard in the fall, grew some more (6'3"/160) played travel ball and made varsity as a senior ...

... in the spring of 2020. And you can see where this is going. He pitched three GREAT relief innings before the pandemic ended the season. He got a varsity letter out of it at least. He chose not to pursue the game any further.

Baseball gave him, and us, a lot. It helped him immeasurably with his self confidence and school life, and it gave us a lot of great memories. I think we're done with the sport though, other than as spectators. His "little" brother (6'5"/230) played, but his season got cut short in 2020 too, and then in 2021 California basically played all its sports in the spring and he had to choose. He chose football and devoted himself to it. Which meant there was no more time for baseball. Summer football showcases, camps, practices and workouts precluded summer ball, and after his senior football season he ended up with a PWO offer at tight end at Cal - Berkeley. I tried to get him motivated for "one last ride" on the diamond with his buddies but he's focused on healing up the aches and pains from football and basketball and then doing speed and strength work related to football so he can hit the ground running at Cal. He's got a good relationship with the Varsity baseball coach though, and he promised me he'd go out and take BP one day so that I could watch him launch a few over the fence and dream about what might have been.

I've enjoyed these boards and this site, and I'll miss the community. Good luck to all, and to all your baseball players!

In my world with my son, i have a saying that i send him when he tells me he feels good or his arm is working, like the old days and that is "Healthy=Awesome" Here's a kid who was rarely down except for overuse a few times in college as a reliever and coming off UNT surgery who has had a few setbacks along the way....protect your kid's arm.....and health above all, there is life after baseball.