Attention all Hitting Gurus

That post is really funny. There is a tension at work with baseball hitting.

First, you must teach a system. I have an older boy and a very young one. I taught the older boy to hit like most major leaguers did 12 years ago. I will teach the 9 year old a certain set system, but it has changed over the years from what I taught the first one.

The second part of the tension is when you coach many kids you must adapt to them or force them into your system. No two players look alike, there is a "fingerprint" to the way their body does things. Also, some have more pop than others, some more footspeed, etc. I would work within the player's attributes, style and system when working with many and not force my particular system on them. Most coaches cannot do this.

Lastly, I cannot hit my way out of a wet paper bag. I'm really good at bowling, math and I'm decent at fighting. Does it really matter if someone can hit to teach hitting? Most who could or can hit teach the way THEY DO IT. That is sometimes a problem.

I must admit, I have learned on this website from most everyone who has posted. I love the point counterpoints & think they help. I love the passion the "gurus" have for the game and particularly hitting. I don't think anyone here has mistaken some of us for gurus, instead we are dads or coaches who love the game. It gets frustrating for some to see the posts, not understand what is even being argued and try to go back and make some sense of it.

I don't mind "multi-syllabic" words, even when I don't know what they mean. When I get through with this post I'm going to google "multi-syllabic" just to make sure it is a word.

quote:

t's not about making all of you feel better about yourself because you can use multi-syllabic words in your posts.

Take a pill you'll feel better in the morning.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:

Take a pill you'll feel better in the morning.

I'm sorry, but if you are not a doctor you have no place giving such advice on this forum.

We have several hitting gurus on this site and each brings something to the table. Some like to hear themselves type ( ) and others have some very valuable info. I don't think any of us agree on who the preceeding sentence applies to since we disagree so much when it comes to hitting. Thus the beauty of this site. If one or two posters say something, I really take time to listen and think it out. Others I get a nice chuckle. They might get the same chuckle when I post something. I see no harm at all except when it comes to attacks on people etc. I don't think this site is for that. For example, there is a gentleman that has sold thousands of DVDs on hitting. I don't like some of his ideas. There is another gentleman that has sold hundreds. I like his ideas a lot and spend a lot of time reading his hitting site. Again, a part of the beauty of this site is to help you become aware of all that is out there and then you can pick and choose what direction you want to go. One particular poster on hitting and I have often disagreed. However, as long as he is civil, I don't have any problem with him and everyone has the option of going to his site and reading his material. I'll stay where I'm comfortable because that person's site MAKE ONE HECK OF A LOT OF SENSE TO ME.

Coachb25, very well said!!

i have always enjoyed your posts and our emails, on another website was an article about hitting and one guy i've shared some info with spoke of a "hybrid" hitter. never heard that term before. are you familiar with it??

this is what he wrote:


I know I said I don't like the web site i attached but there is a good film clip of David Ortiz. The reason I attached it is because I think Ortiz would be classified by most as a rotational hittier but he is precisely what I would call a hybrid guy. The only difference in the true definition of a hybrid is that a true hybrid guy usually loses contact with the back foot, i absolutely do not advocate that. Although, doubledroptine has it pegged, "if it ain't broke don't fix it". problem is that if you work hard enough at this you will find out that almost all of them are broke some way or another. My main objective to win games obviously but i hav e a personal agenda in that i'm not sure i don't get more gratification out of getting marginal kids signed to play at the next level. that being said, using the clip from the link above, this is exactly why HS kids should not be compared to pros. This ball is way in, he is way jammed, and he still hits the ball out of the yard. second, look at his back pocket in the side view and decide whether or not his hips srart the hack or his hands. i think that he does some things with his front foot that HS kids would never get away with and there is no way in he double hockey sticks that they would hit that pitch out of the yard with their hands in that position. thhe thing i like about it is that his lower half never changes and he makes the adjust ment for the barrell with his hands not his lower half like most young kids do.

Deaconspoint, Dr Bobblehead or Bobblehead MD sounds kind of cool. Maybe he should take a blue pill and a pink one.

Personally I enjoy the varied opinions on hitting although I am not a hitting guy. The last I heard no one got hurt by bad advice on hitting but I suppose anything is plausible.

quote:

How do you teach what you know to players who actually play.

I teach using random training with delayed feedback.....Everybody else I know of teaches block training with instant feedback.....

An example of what I do is, I don't wany my student participating in hitting stations at practice....No soft toss and no tee hitting......Depending on the age of the student, either myself or the player talks this over with the coach....

Batting practice hitting is O.K....Any speed!!

If I may???.....

I think a qualification to be tagged as a hitting guru requires that one have their own hitting website....

I say to be a guru you must sell a hitting DVD.

Or BlueDog's posts could look like this... (current post count of 1408 divided by 3 equals 469 pearls of wisdom)

quote:

How do you teach what you know to players who actually play.

I teach using random training with delayed feedback.....Everybody else I know of teaches block training with instant feedback.....

An example of what I do is, I don't wany my student participating in hitting stations at practice....No soft toss and no tee hitting......Depending on the age of the student, either myself or the player talks this over with the coach....

Batting practice hitting is O.K....Any speed!!

If I may???.....

I think a qualification to be tagged as a hitting guru requires that one have their own hitting website....

Want to be a GURU?

Read the following thread below>

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8291034941/m/6271011151

If any of you guru's are thinking of going international. Here is how you will want to present yourself.

Chinese: 宗師, 宗师
French: gourou m
Greek: γκουρού
Hindi: गुरू
Japanese: 教祖
Korean: 지도자
Kannada: ಗುರು
Punjabi: ਗੁਰੂ
Sanskrit: गुरु
Telugu: గురువు, ఓ రంగంలో :విశారదుడు, కోవిదుడు
Urdu: گرو

If PGStaff, BlueDog and Shepster declares me to be a hitting guru I am regardless of tapes or websites.

One time I had one of my players wax my car all day. When he was finished he was very frustrated but I showed him how "wax on, wax off" was a great way to hit and take the pitcher out of his rhythm. Was a really strange looking swing. Pitcher laughed so hard we walked to victory.

Same player painted my fence. I showed him how that motion "paint up, paint down" could produce a downward plane in his swing. He got two catcher interfernces in one game and we won by a run.

So, since I have such advanced techniques -- would someone please bless me as a guru?

By the way, and no kidding aside, if Shep, Bluedog, CoachB25 or PGStaff say something about hitting, pay attention.

Blue Dog- Why no soft toss or tee hitting?

Soft toss and tee hitting is block training with instant feedback....

Not the way I teach.....

When a player hits off a tee or with soft toss, the player's emphasis will be on hitting the ball.....

I want the emphasis to be on how they load and unload....And, I want to get them in that frame of mind as quickly as possible....Then, and only then, can we make progress and move forward with the learning process, IMO....

I will add......

Loading, unloading and timing the pitch is the motor control process....Teaching one without the other is counter-productive, IMO, because they function together, not independently of each other.....This is what random training with delayed feedback is about....

Soft toss from the front is O.K. as long as the pitcher is some distance away from the batter....Soft toss from the side is what I stay away from....And, hitting into a net I, also, stay away from....

I use a "Hands Back Hitter" in every session.....Everything I want to teach is built into that product....It's a form of soft toss, but, with some really big differences....It makes the batter shift his weight, helps teach how momentum works and helps instill loading while striding.......And, the ball is moving, so, the motor control functions are all in play.....

BlueDog- You're giving us some useful stuff. Can you explain your "Hands Back Hitter" a little more.

Hands Back Hitter

quote:

Originally posted by ncball:
BlueDog- You're giving us some useful stuff. Can you explain your "Hands Back Hitter" a little more.

So NCBall, since you're online, I've been meaning to ask you this question for many months. Are you saying BlueDog is the only one here who is contributing useful stuff? Many true lifers have contributed to many threads here who have experience and great success as hitters, instructors and player development fixer uppers(instructors @ professional levels, not just college). I'm just not referring to myself either Keep up the good work out on the West Coast, but your not the only one who has made contributions and many of us don't look for compensation. peace norcal, shep

Shep- I was complimenting Blue Dog because he answered something in the specific thread I started. He was one of the few guys. BTW- I like your posts. Finally, there are dozens of people who do more than I ever will. My point was that I'm not some dad running a travel team to win $10 trophies. There are legit programs all over and he doesn't understand that. Now, you should be sleeping!

Good night brother. I apologize. This is past my bedtime and my last night to stay up late before reporting back to work Monday morning. Have a great season and by the way, you do have my utmost respect for the great contributions you have made to our precious game. peace shep

I have yet to come across a hitting instructor who emphasizes the triceps in the swing and their importance.

Most instruction I have come across relies heavily on the biceps.

I constantly see talk of the use of the hands, forearms, shoulders, legs etc, but nothing about the triceps.

The difference between being good and being great lies in proper respect for the triceps and their value in the use of propelling the arms, foreams, wrists and hands.

Why are the triceps overlooked or misunderstood in hitting instruction?

I know the answer to that question Quincy. It's because the biceps are the easiest muscles to train between the two groups, biceps and triceps.

There has to be balanced muscle training building between opposites. Another example would be quads and hamstrings. Another would be abs and back muscles. I've seen many baseball players in my career who refuse to train both sides of the body and get very unbalanced. Why do you think so many players have pulled hamstrings? A Conditioning coach such as Jon Doyle is the key to great success. Just make sure that any trainer you choose to get you to the top incorporates an excellent diet which should include collard greens and chicken opposed to B-12 shots.

Good post Quincy and so often over-looked in the total preparation of the "player". peace shep
PS(Got any more Shoeless Joe clips or any Satchel Page?)

quote:

Another would be abs and back muscles.

Yes, many times misunderstood how to train these two muscle groups to get smart......

The key is the "glutes"......The lower back and the abs are controlled by the glute muscles........This is the core of the body......This is the balance point of the body......This core keeps the spine in good order which carries nerve impulses to the rest of the body...

If this core is weak, the whole body is weak........

some good videos on Satchel Paige

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=satchel%20p...ell&resnum=0&spell=1

BlueDog posted "If the core is weak the whole body is weak". Absolutely 100% truth. I see kids train in the weight room and never work the core. They appear to be big and strong players. But they have no baseball strength. They have no power at the plate. As Shep said train from in inside out. The core is your foundation.

ahh yes,

"The BlueDog has spoken".

The gluteous minimus and maximus should not be neglected and are very important in core training.
Good strong lats also help the proper alignment of the spine and firm lean abdomen muscles without much body fat decrease pressure and tension on the spine. Here's a well-conditioned core which lends itself to a more relaxed body posture as a hitter

Interesting reading on the importance of a strong core..........And, the importance of the glute muscles..........

http://www.biggerfasterstronger.com/uploads/Glute-Ham%20Book.pdf

I'm new to this website, but I thought I's share my pov anyway. I look forward to learning a lot here.

reply to bluedog, I have an HBH and found it pretty much useless except as a toy. Those really light balls that come with it can be whanged around the house in the winter without endangering anything.

I don't like them for the same reason I don't use soft toss from the side, batters don't have to hit balls popping up into the strike zone for coming from the side. I like short toss from the front. The tee is still my most valuable tool.

I coached six years at the LL level and learned from one guru. I don't know if posting commercial websites is allowed here, but if its ok, I'll link his site. I learned a lot about a high level swing from him, but his real strength is in teaching. He has dozens, perhaps hundreds of drills and gimicks that ingrain his points.

I had mixed results with teaching his methods. My son and another kid on his LL team dominated the league their last year in LL after a workshop with the guru, but other kids I and the guru worked with didn't do so well. I think his lessons have to be reinforced or they tend to slip away. And, of course, a certain amount of talent and desire help a lot. The willingness to give up old misconceptions is also helpful, particularly at the HS level. HS kids tend to be more resistant to new learning.

quote:

I have an HBH and found it pretty much useless except as a toy.

Tells me alot about your choice of swing theory.....I would venture to say you wouldn't agree with the inventor of the HBH's hitting theory.....Well, I do....

quote:

The tee is still my most valuable tool.

Stay with it...It's easy to hit.......

A friend of mine got a hands back hitter. He told me about it. I checked it out. The best hitting tool I have seen.

I like T work but only in this manner and only for short periods of time. And only when we can immediately hit live afterwards.

Put the ball on the T. Look at the imaginary pitcher in front of you never look at the T. Imagine seeing the pitcher rocker step and begin to deliver the ball to the plate. Visualize the pitcher throwing a pitch to you. Track the imaginary baseball all the way to the T while going through your entire approach. Pick up the ball as you have tracked the imaginary baseball to the T.

Immediately after you have gone through five or 6 of these drills get some live arm bp with change of speeds mixed in.

I do not like to see guys standing over a T taking hack after hack. This is totally a waist of time. Hitting is timing. Most hitters struggle because of timing issues. Soft toss from the side and T work hamper the learing process as far as timing goes.

Live arm bp / change of speed bp / Front toss /

T work is too easy. It screws up more swings than it helps. And it does not address the primary concerns in a swing. You are better off with dry swings and an imaginary pitcher going through your timing sequence.

Of course this is jmo.

I will tell you this our guys success at games is much better when we take some live bp or no bp than it is when they get on a t before a game. We stopped T work before games. We dont allow T work unless it is supervised and done in the manner talked about above.

hitting is timing / pitching is disruption of timing / T work takes the timing process out of the equation therefore screwing up hitters.

Again this is just one old mans opinion.

Blue dog - "Stay with it...It's easy to hit....... "
Each drill has a specific purpose. Tee work has two, to work on form and power. Tell Arod tees are useless. He uses them a lot.

As far as the HBH, in addition to popping up into the zone, it requires a stride. I find it easier to teach the basics of rotational swinging without the stride. Once they understand and ingrain the swing, they can add the stride if they want. Do you know an MLBer who uses them?

"random training with delayed feedback" You're right, I'm not familiar with this theory. Is there someplace you can point me to learn more about it? I am interested in learning.

http://www.apa.org/releases/retention.html

http://www.rugbycoach.com/club/skills/cognitive.htm

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

I have an HBH and found it pretty much useless except as a toy.

Tells me alot about your choice of swing theory.....I would venture to say you wouldn't agree with the inventor of the HBH's hitting theory.....Well, I do....

BlueDog, is it possible that the hitters are using the hips as the "go" move instead of the hands and are improperly "using" the HBH? The hips should clear and allow separation between the hips and hands, therefore when the ball pops up only the hands need to commit.

If you wait for the ball to come up then open the hips it takes too long to execute the swing. The hips must be opening and get a running start as well as the hands getting a running start before stepping.

I believe this may be underlying problem for those who don't think the HBH is any good.

quote:

If you wait for the ball to come up then open the hips it takes too long to execute the swing.

XV, I'm assuming this is what is happening.....

quote:

The hips should clear and allow separation between the hips and hands, therefore when the ball pops up only the hands need to commit.

I agree, but, I doubt Bbdoug does.......

Bluedog, how do you use the HBH in your routines? Maybe a dumb question but I am interested to see if you are doing anything different with it than I am.

Dazed63

Dazed, I think it's important to produce torque in two areas........ I rotate the hips into footplant producing torque in the midsection........And, I load the bat out of plane to produce torque in the hands......

So, when the front foot hits the string (ground), I float the bat till I'm ready to swing......My body is stretched (torqued) and when I'm ready to swing, I torque the bat handle.......

Dazed, keep in mind I'm not teaching the learn to rotate theory.......I'm teaching the "stretch and fire" theory..........

Learn to rotate types will have closed hips when the front foot hits the string (ground)....I don't believe that's good for hitting and certainly not good for the HBH.........These types of hitters struggle to make late swing adjustments, IMO....

The HBH is geared for "stretch and fire" hitting technique.........It's the way I see MLB hitters swing the bat.......