Avoiding HS politics?

What is he going to do in 2013?

Probably not the right wording but.....

What kind of coach would go outside his staff and have someone else choose his team for him. Sounds a little spineless to me. What kind of precedent is this setting future years? IMO he's lost control of a good part of HIS program.

Tell the coach to get a "set," make his own decisions and stand by them.

Retire?

BTW that spineless coach was son's former HS coach, and the staff obviously was also in favor of this.

I didn't ask for nasty comments (which includes growing a set), just your thoughts but I guess for some that includes being nasty.

so did juniors and seniors that had been playing on varsity for the last few years get cut for all the freshman and are they all starting? That AD must be dealing with many crazed upperclass parents right now I wouldnt want to be him

No not all of them were cut. BTW, I do beleive out of the 12 only 11 made varsity.

Only 2 that I heard were seniors. That would leave 7-8, and not sure who is actually starting when season kicks in and who is not.

Knowing the AD she would stand by the coach, and possibly, would like to find out, if this whole idea came from her.

I am curious what is the morale like on the team are the upperclassmen accepting of all the freshmen on the team and are freshmen starting at every position

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
BTW that spineless coach was son's former HS coach, and the staff obviously was also in favor of this.

I didn't ask for nasty comments (which includes growing a set), just your thoughts but I guess for some that includes being nasty.

You asked and peopled obliged. Its a tough topic to be pc about and don't see "nasty" in the answers, just opinions with "dugout language".

Why does "dugout" language have to be referred to in this topic or any other?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Why does "dugout" language have to be referred to in this topic or any other?

Because it's a baseball site?

quote:

Originally posted by hisbiggestfan:
I am curious what is the morale like on the team are the upperclassmen accepting of all the freshmen on the team and are freshmen starting at every position

I have no clue, but they all seemed to play well together that's for sure.

I started thinking about this and all the discussions lately here about coaches making cuts, I thought it would be interesting. I have no opinion on whether I think it was the right way to do it, but obviously the coach had reasons, one of them being it looked really weird if he took the kids on his team who he had coached with for years in LL.

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Why does "dugout" language have to be referred to in this topic or any other?

Because it's a baseball site?

Because some people have no clue that not all people here have never sat in the dugout. No way would some dads here ever post like that. JMO.

But thanks for your opinion anyway.

Retirement may be a good option, 'cause he might have some serious rebuilding.

I guess the true test will be how they are playing at season's end. That might be a lot of pressure for freshmen over two months. But everyone always says they want the best nine on the field... if that is what happens, then no worries.

Our school is brand new, this is only our 3rd season of ball. A lot of people moved into the old district so their kids could remain in their old school. Our seniors and juniors would probably not be on Varsity team if this were an established program. The coach did a good job in fielding a competitive team last year. The first year was awful. I'm being nice.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Because some people have no clue that not all people here have never sat in the dugout. No way would some dads here ever post like that. JMO..

Vulgarity has no place here. However, in this case it's a phrase that is used all the time. Some dads may not post it, some will, but in the end those who don't `have dugout experience will be a little more educated.

I've heard worse on network tv.

Why start this thread when you know darn well you will see posts that in your mind are not PC---I see no problem in the posts that have been made---you asked for opinions and you got them---I do not agree with what the coach did but that is his option as the Head Coach---

TPM,

good idea for a post. Should of provocked some good converstion,but instead we get what we got.

The coach might have thought that his current crop of juniors and seniors weren't going to be competitive and he rolled the dice. Tough call, but he should have a heck of a team in 1-3 years when they have all played together for another couple of years. I have seen similar situations before with a new coach, but never as drastic. Play all of the young guys with the thought being they will be great as juniors and seniors. I would definitly get my phone unlisted. My sons future HS started 4 freshman last year and he took a lot of heat. I can't imagine the parents if all 9 started.

My guess is that he knew for sure what to do, and he knew what the scouts would see, but he wanted some ammo to deal with those that would claim politics or favoritism.

I wouldn't have done that, but I was never smart enough to think of something like that. Sounds like a good way to dodge bullets.

Wonder what everyone might say if we only heard that 11 freshman that he had coached before were moved up to varsity, without hearing the rest. Especially if that story came from one of the upperclassmen parents. Guess I'm a fence sitter on this one and can kind of see both sides.

From my understanding the coaches son is a freshman also
And the coach has groomed these players for 3 years?

Its called daddy ball?

EH

From what is presented here, two things come to mind for me:

1. This is not a good coach, and he does not have good ethics. If his upper classmen have universally lost interest, he did not do well in developing them, physically or mentally. If he coached these young players himself and took them instead of the older ones and relied on the input of others to validate his point of view, that point of view seems more than skewed the wrong way from the beginning. I also find that broad view hard to believe (in regard to the universally poor quality of the upper classmen).
2. For 11 freshmen to make the varsity, regardless of how good they are, it tells me the school is not very competitive and that the competition is lacking.

As an old timer I find all this absurd. How in this case did it come to this? If you are the hed coach you evaluate the kids. Period. You make the decision. Keep the outside forces out of it. If you let them in you can expect the politics angle.

if this happened in new england, i would think daddy ball right away. this happened in south florida where there are more than a few very good player's, i can't even imagine having this problem around here.

in my opinion this coach has put himself in a no win situation...........unless they do win. then he's a genius.

Obviously the best kids should be picked and the best kids should play, regardless of age. That part is easy. But picking an entire team of freshmen who are ALL better than the kids who've already been on varsity for one - three years? Hard to believe. That had to be one weak varsity program - unless none of his returning varsity players were starters... maybe he graduated an entire team? We don't have a great high school baseball program, but I can tell you it's rare that we have even one freshman on the varsity - in general they lack size, speed and maturity. That must be a group of stud freshmen.

Our coach also has a personal policy that he adheres to - if you move up a level (or two) it's because you are good enough to start and play. So if he brought up 11 freshmen, he'd be starting nine of them and the other two would be ace pitchers or it wouldn't happen.

Having said all that, I don't see how this coach is going to avoid the accusation of favoritism by doing what he did - how hard would it be to just assume he stacked the "jury"? Told them ahead of time "hey, guys, this is the outcome I'm looking for - I'm just going to hide behind you while you do the dirty work." I'm not saying that's what DID happen, I'm just saying that's what COULD happen and what many would figure HAD happened. He obviously knows his "observers" well enough to ask them to help out... parents who are going to cry politics will just figure his buddies helped him get the results that had already been pre-determined by the coach. Hey, I'm from Illinios - we know how politics works!

Freshman need to pay their dues unless they're better and can start over the upperclassmen. Bringing up 11 freshman means there will be freshman on the varsity bench. No freshman should ever be sitting on a varsity bench over an upperclassman. If freshman aren't starting and playing every inning, they should be on the freshman team. It's hard to believe that every freshman was better than all the incumbents with varsity experience.

Also, a coach not picking his own team does show he lacks the set to be a head coach and moving a team of freshman up to the varsity makes a joke out of the program and would probably invoke big-time politics from parents of the players in the program putting pressure on the AD to do something about a head coach who can't run a program and needs an outsider to do it for him.

.

That poor coach...maybe these will help him out.








.

Interesting story... Generally, I don't have a problem with freshman on varsity, and if you pull one up - they need to play. It's not good for either the player or the program, for a freshman to sit on the varsity bench, sometimes they are just BETTER! But an entire team? That makes it hard not to believe the obvious extremes. Either the team was a train wreck to begin with, or the coach (and his methods) are questionable. It'll be interesting to see how they do, not just the W-L's, but how they handle the experience.

GED10DaD
's love catchers!

I know from previous threads what team you're talking about. Colts? I know a lot of them since I used to live in CS.

quote:

Originally posted by mythreesons:
- how hard would it be to just assume he stacked the "jury"?

I thinks its **** likely, even if he didn't do it purposefully. Just in going through the process of setting up such an unconventional tryout, and explaining to the "jury" what he was after, he had to have revealed his intentions at least a little.

Oh, and (earmuffs, TPM) this guy clearly needs to grow a pair.

Oh, and (earmuffs, TPM) this guy clearly needs to grow a pair.



maybe the ad as well?

tpm
couldn't help it.

If i'm going to get a jury I'm going to call up guys I know... Those guys know what my affilitations etc are... If I am a parent of a junior or senior in this thing I would think it stunk to high heaven.

I just can't imagine doing this to my juniors and seniors.... and I guess I'm saying this because I find it hard to believe that at least some of those freshmen couldn't beat out every junior and senior... I called up some of my friends and this is what they told me I believed!!!

I agree that it sounds like he intended all along to take his precious group of freshman up and that the scouts review was a stacked jury. If my son were an upperclassmen, I'd be pounding down the AD's door on this cr@p.

.

It works like a champ Sandman!



And it has a lifetime warranty too!

After reading post after post about loyalty to the team, the coach and the school, I love this story.

The coach let down his upper classmen as was stated earlier. After two or three years of the coach's tutelage, they should be ready for the varsity level.

They have exhibited Loyalty to the coach, to the team and to the school. Where is the loyalty coming from the coach, the team and the school?

Life isn't fair. After waiting their time and practicing under the coach, the rules and ethics of high school athletics are thrown out the window. The upper classmen have been cheated. The coach let them down.

In my view, the coach should be asked to leave and take his team with him. Daddy Ball? Favoritism? Pre-meditation? Yes, yes and yes.

Even though ethical behavior is a fairy tale after high school, the high school experience is insular and should be ethical.

quote:

Originally posted by fanofgame:
TPM,

good idea for a post. Should of provocked some good converstion,but instead we get what we got.

Explain..It's a great topic TPM brought up that provoked good conversation and right to the point replies. Nothing vulgar or nasty. Based on the replies, it would seem most have the same general opinion of how this coach runs his program.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
Why does "dugout" language have to be referred to in this topic or any other?

Because it's a baseball site?

Because some people have no clue that not all people here have never sat in the dugout. No way would some dads here ever post like that. JMO.

But thanks for your opinion anyway.

I've sat in the dugout through 18U in softball and 16U in baseball. The talk in the girl's dugout would curl your hair. If you wanted to discussion to be about the cuts you should have dropped the drama rather than fueling it.

.

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:
In my view, the coach should be asked to leave and take his team with him. .

Lovely parting gifts perhaps?

quote:

Originally posted by mythreesons:
Obviously the best kids should be picked and the best kids should play, regardless of age. That part is easy. But picking an entire team of freshmen who are ALL better than the kids who've already been on varsity for one - three years? Hard to believe. That had to be one weak varsity program - unless none of his returning varsity players were starters... maybe he graduated an entire team? We don't have a great high school baseball program, but I can tell you it's rare that we have even one freshman on the varsity - in general they lack size, speed and maturity. That must be a group of stud freshmen.

Same here. In a large high school, opening day will have the third soph starter in the last eight years. It will have it's first freshman starter anyone can remember. Graduating half the team is the only reason the freshman will start. The freshman is a big strong kid. Most freshmen lack the upperbody strength compared to upperclassmen to compete with them for positions.

What is posted here has nothing to do with dugout language. JMO.

I asked a question after telling a story that I heard, I was wondering if you all thought that this was avoiding the politics by how the team was chosen, and thanks to those who gave their impression without drama.

Do I think it was a good decision? If you get results then you chose the best players, if you didn't then you made a mistake. I was surprised, as mine had to sit behind those ahead of him and IMO he was most likely the best pitcher, hitter and fielder on the team for 4 years of HS ball, he even had to play JV before he went up to V beginning of freshman year. He wasn't even allowed to for 3 years, to play any other position, which was a shame because they could have used his bat several times, but we kept that to ourselves and never complained and neither did son. We often had freshman play in front of those that were older. I do not know the reasons why those returning players were cut, but there was mention. Also interesting, this was a pre season tournie with about 7 teams, and this team won the championship, although most of the teams played were not the strongest competition around.

I am not sure that all the freshman are starters. I agree if not, they should be in JV for practice and not sit the bench.

I find the responses interesting, as recently a post here from a mom whose son was cut over a freshman. From what I got the impression, the best player gets the job, but from this, there is no loyalty to the returning players? HS baseball is sure confusing.

FWIW, HS baseball for son was practice for the more difficult competition he faced in travel ball and elite tournaments, it wasn't a big learning experience. And most players do not find themselves on a D1 roster. My son is the furthest anyone has gotten, in all of these years, it's not a strong program for a 6A class school, but is competitive. Not all HS in FL are stacked with elite players, in fact most are not. Most players never move beyond HS here.