Awful HS Baseball Situation

Is this a freshman team, where there is also JV and V?  Do some underclassmen play JV and V (i.e. are these the freshmen who didn't make JV or V?)

This is a freshman team. Usually, all freshman play on this team but for the first time ever, they moved some freshman up to JV this year. And they weren’t the most talented freshman, so it’s a bit mysterious as to why. Maybe they just backfilled in some positions - ?

The whole thing is very weird.

If  a private school and you aren't happy why not leave?  Surely there are other options that meet your overall goals. 

Is the school great in terms of academics?  Are there reasons to stay?

Yes we are seriously considering it and have begun the process. But what if this is the way it is at all high schools? I don’t have much experience in this area as this is my oldest child.

This sounds like a frustrating situation for your family and son. However, considering that the season just started a few weeks ago, you are choosing to use some powerful words to describe what is happening - awful, ostracized, shunned, hate, etc... Regardless of the actual situation, I believe with kids and school, it is best to begin by assuming there has been some oversight and explaining it to your child as such. It is much more productive for your child to go into these team and school interactions with a sense of agency rather than a sense of persecution. Parents can help by setting a productive tone for their kids, asking kids if they have thoughts about how to proceed, and practicing responses to uncomfortable situations. Also, I have not heard you mention the ramifications of covid. It has been a difficult year to be a new student in many schools - people may not be so quick to open up to kids and families they don't know. As for the team and team party, it could be worth approaching a parent at the game, introducing yourself, and mentioning that you are new to the school and sorry to have missed the party. Generally assuming good intentions will get you farther than the opposite.

Thanks Fan2024. Great insights.

I have tried reaching out to other moms and my son to their kids. Limited success thus far. The few people we knew from before have been cordial but that’s it.

The strong language comes from my son. He feels like the team is the “I hate (sons name) club.”  Kids are bonding over his exclusion. And I suspect the parents are doing the same with us.

But how to explain the actions of the coach? Leaving .500 hitters on the bench and starting a .050 hitter every inning at 1b?  Using my son who clearly is the best pitcher on the team (the varsity and JV head coaches have begun to show up when he throws bullpens) as a short reliever?

is there a hazing period for every high school sport? Are we going to experience the same thing if we go somewhere else?

Sounds like a difficult situation, but also seems like there may be another side or two to this situation....

It’s not a huge school but it is all boys. They gave my son a small academic scholarship as they’re trying to raise the academic profile of the school. Son has great grades and test scores. Who the scholarship recipients are is not a secret, although I don’t know that the names are published anywhere. It’s not a lot of money.

The school we are considering transferring to is one we are familiar with. Sons cousin is about to graduate from there. She played varsity all 4 years and says everything is on the up and up. Said she’s never heard of any shenanigans on any team, including baseball.

Generally schools have a reputation for various programs.  You will have to do a little research, visit schools, speak with faculty and coaches to see what is available.  The primary reason my son went to the school he did was the baseball coach was someone we felt was a good role model and a respected coach.  Did I ever disagree with his game coaching of course.  Did I ever have a concern that he was not the right person of character for my son to be influenced by-"no."  Character matters in a coach.  Similarly you should want faculty that you want to teach your son.  You are paying for a service.  You are not entitled to special entitlements within that school by you should feel your money is spent on a valued outcome.  Clearly, you are not pleased with the current situation and are evaluating options. 

In fairness Freshman baseball level of play is a far step below Varsity play.  Strength and size of the players is often dramatically different.  There are many players on Freshman team simply because they need to fill out a roster and it is a service provided by the school.  A You have an important Summer where hopefully your son is on a quality team and playing to improve.  High School baseball is a very short season with limited opportunities compared to the Summer and Fall seasons. 

I assume there are still games being played in your area at high school level so go watch games of prospective coaches and see how the coaches run the team.  You probably can generate a conversation with some parents to see what they like about the team.  Not a good idea to go with negative conversations but I'm sure someone will share negatives without prompting. 

You know one thing right now.  You don't seem to like the current situation to think it will change is probably a very wishful thought without a program coaching change. 

@nycdad posted:

Sounds like a difficult situation, but also seems like there may be another side or two to this situation....

I agree! I’ve asked and asked my son if there’s anything he said or did to cause this. He says no the kids were just mean from the first day of practice.

As for us, we’ve barely spoken to any of the parents. Or administrators. Or coaches.

I think it’s just jealousy.  Son played football for the school earlier this year and that was no problem. He was the #2 QB. Did OK. Not really a football player.

The bad vibes started when baseball started.  

If your son (and your family) are on the wrong side of the politics as badly as you have described I would change schools. Those situations usually don’t change over time. The picture you have painted is very atypical IMO so I wouldn’t expect a similar problem at another school.

@adbono posted:

If your son (and your family) are on the wrong side of the politics as badly as you have described I would change schools. Those situations usually don’t change over time. The picture you have painted is very atypical IMO so I wouldn’t expect a similar problem at another school.

Thank you

My son catches, and has been fortunate to catch pens for some talented young pitchers. Their parents have mentioned stories of sabotage and jealousy towards their boys and occasionally their families (anonymous emails to travel coaches with unverifiables tales of immoral behavior, etc). We have also met parents and kids who are insufferable braggarts. Obviously I dont know if either of these applies to you and your child!!! But humility is never a bad thing. As far as playing time goes, if your son can help varsity win, eventually he will find himself there. (Here I am echoing years of threads from this site). Maybe not this year (again, covid is a thing ... Freshman baseball is a thing, coaches' comfort with what/who they know is a thing.). As you have said, it is only a few weeks into your season. If the situationis really bad, transfer. But you are parenting your son for the forty year plan, not the hs jv season plan. Investing in building your child's resiliency , agency, and focus on what he can control are all things that pay off long term.

Is anyone in your family a witch?

@RJM posted:

Is anyone in your family a witch?

Yes! How did you know?

just kidding.

No. We are not braggarts. Just the opposite. Which might be part of the problem...I think sometimes people look for dominance behavior and when they don’t see it they perceive weakness. And pounce.

It sounds like you've made your decision.  There are two weeks left in CIF regular season play (I see you too are from CA), go watch a freshman game at the potential school.  Actually watch the dugout.  Are the boys supporting each other and having some degree of fun?  All schools will have "politics" to some degree.  Look for general tone for the team. IMO people who think the politics are rampantly against their son frequently also have a case of "mom/dad goggles" when it comes to their son's abilities.  If you are good enough you'll be above the politics. Coaches having "favorites" is different, but frequently parents can't understand this because they don't see every minute of practices and games, like a coach does.

It sounds like a fairly toxic environment and if your child isn't enjoying himself you should make the switch. As long as it can be done without harming academics, which should always remain top priority.  Sounds like your son is a smart kids and those students are usually successful just about anywhere.  Just be warned, if your son is part of the problem (even unknowingly) then the situation will arise again.  I'm not trying to take shots at you or hurt your feelings, but in your initial post you described your son as a "very talented RHP", parents of very talented pitchers rarely describe their son as such AND a very talented pitcher is probably on varsity even as a freshman politics or no politics.  It will be very important that you transition to the new school with a bit of humble pie and no negative comments about the prior school.  Positivity breeds positivity.

@LousyLefty posted:

It sounds like you've made your decision.  There are two weeks left in CIF regular season play (I see you too are from CA), go watch a freshman game at the potential school.  Actually watch the dugout.  Are the boys supporting each other and having some degree of fun?  All schools will have "politics" to some degree.  Look for general tone for the team. IMO people who think the politics are rampantly against their son frequently also have a case of "mom/dad goggles" when it comes to their son's abilities.  If you are good enough you'll be above the politics. Coaches having "favorites" is different, but frequently parents can't understand this because they don't see every minute of practices and games, like a coach does.

It sounds like a fairly toxic environment and if your child isn't enjoying himself you should make the switch. As long as it can be done without harming academics, which should always remain top priority.  Sounds like your son is a smart kids and those students are usually successful just about anywhere.  Just be warned, if your son is part of the problem (even unknowingly) then the situation will arise again.  I'm not trying to take shots at you or hurt your feelings, but in your initial post you described your son as a "very talented RHP", parents of very talented pitchers rarely describe their son as such AND a very talented pitcher is probably on varsity even as a freshman politics or no politics.  It will be very important that you transition to the new school with a bit of humble pie and no negative comments about the prior school.  Positivity breeds positivity.

Thank you very very much. Extremely helpful.

What is the deadline to transfer? Does he need to sit out a year like some HS confs require? Are you confident the baseball situation will improve if he attends that other school? I think you should connect with the other school's coach to make sure if will work.

Switch. There is no situation attractive enough to compensate for what you've described.

In CA I believe sub-varsity players don’t have to sit out. If your child makes varsity then the SOP is a sizable chunk of the season. There currently is a waiver for kids going from private to public, (because of Covid) I’m not sure if that is available next year or not.

We have checked the CIF transfer rules. No sit out period for freshman transfers.

i don’t know the deadline to transfer. Is the deadline for the old school or the new school?

So it just dawned on me. I couldn’t figure out why you said the season was just starting. We’ve already played almost 20 games and only have 5 left. Did your son ONLY do football during CIF season 1?   There was significant overlap this year because of the pushed back football season.  How many players did both? Was your son one of the only ones?  This sudden shift in dynamics could partially explain the feeling of exclusion. If these kids/families have already bonded and if your son came in hot...

We have a football/baseball player who is a starter. He missed some games and a lot of practices because of football.  He did not start during the overlap, played about 50% of the time. FB season is over and he’s back in his spot. I def see some tighter jaws from parents of kids who had been playing more. But that’s just part of the game.

@LousyLefty posted:

So it just dawned on me. I couldn’t figure out why you said the season was just starting. We’ve already played almost 20 games and only have 5 left. Did your son ONLY do football during CIF season 1?   There was significant overlap this year because of the pushed back football season.  How many players did both? Was your son one of the only ones?  This sudden shift in dynamics could partially explain the feeling of exclusion. If these kids/families have already bonded and if your son came in hot...

We have a football/baseball player who is a starter. He missed some games and a lot of practices because of football.  He did not start during the overlap, played about 50% of the time. FB season is over and he’s back in his spot. I def see some tighter jaws from parents of kids who had been playing more. But that’s just part of the game.

Yea, there was several weeks of overlap and a bunch of players did both. Prob about 12-15 kids. The two sport athletes were generally better than the kids who only played baseball.

So I guess that could explain it some.

JV coach told RHPson that he didn’t initially have him down as a pitcher. Not sure why.  So maybe some administrative snafus too.

But none of that explains the out-of-the-gate hostility of the parents, players and coach.

thanks

Parents are very territorial when it comes to their kids and  sports. They see a player come into the program late because they participated in another sport and now is taking away innings from their sons.  Parents can be very cruel, and, no offense to anyone, but often parents who pay for their child's education feel they have special privileges to act like children themselves. There are some parents who will tell the coach what he should and should not do.

I can't speak for the coach, but seems he has some issues and is a jerk. Perhaps the parents have given him some slack for letting your son play when he entered late into the program. Some do that.

If you choose to transfer him, you need to let the administration know why.

I am sorry your son has to be treated like this. I just hate when this happens.

With family parties, this sounds like parents with a travel-team mentality.  Some freshmen will move up next year, some may not.  JV and V teams are almost always multi-age, so should be less possibility for social stuff.  Did the teams practice together?  Were non-freshman just as hostile to your son?

On a HS team, parents may not all be best pals, given that the kids are competing for playing time.  At my son's HS, the parents of starters sat in the stands, the other parents tended to sit down the lines.  There was definitely no meanness, there was some awkwardness, though.

Did you pick this school for baseball?  If for other reasons, are those other things still valid?

@TPM posted:

Parents are very territorial when it comes to their kids and  sports. They see a player come into the program late because they participated in another sport and now is taking away innings from their sons.  Parents can be very cruel, and, no offense to anyone, but often parents who pay for their child's education feel they have special privileges to act like children themselves. There are some parents who will tell the coach what he should and should not do.

I can't speak for the coach, but seems he has some issues and is a jerk. Perhaps the parents have given him some slack for letting your son play when he entered late into the program. Some do that.

If you choose to transfer him, you need to let the administration know why.

I am sorry your son has to be treated like this. I just hate when this happens.

Thanks. The worst treatment has come from parents and players who were on the football team with him. I suspect the whole thing is being lead by one family but I don’t really know.

We are on the fence about what to tell the admin when we leave. don’t want to burn any bridges.

@anotherparent posted:

With family parties, this sounds like parents with a travel-team mentality.  Some freshmen will move up next year, some may not.  JV and V teams are almost always multi-age, so should be less possibility for social stuff.  Did the teams practice together?  Were non-freshman just as hostile to your son?

On a HS team, parents may not all be best pals, given that the kids are competing for playing time.  At my son's HS, the parents of starters sat in the stands, the other parents tended to sit down the lines.  There was definitely no meanness, there was some awkwardness, though.

Did you pick this school for baseball?  If for other reasons, are those other things still valid?

This was a freshman team so no upper class men. And no mixing of teams at practices.

i agree that part of the problem is they prob put him on the wrong team. If he was on JV I suspect this wouldn’t have happened, the skills of the team would have been more even with his. But I was initially excited for him to be on the frosh team, so he could meet more of his classmates in person  

but that’s water under the bridge at this point...

we picked the school for location and sports. The league is one of the strongest in SoCal.

If this situation is as bad as you say it is, make an appointment with the AD. Ask that your son, under the circumstances, move out from the freshman team. Your son should attend the meeting as well and ask that the coach be present.

Or just cut your losses and move to another school.

You might suggest to your son to speak with his coach 1 on 1 if it is a playing time thing and give the 2 of them some space. It sounds like there is a large roster and competition for playing time which isn’t unusual. Pitcher only as a freshman might be just one or two players—by varsity it will be a larger number—I suspect that is part of where the “being shunned” stems from. The summer will be here soon and with that travel ball and good pitchers usually get their chance.

So very sorry you and your family are going through this. We are having a bad experience in a public school on a JV team.  Several players are jealous of our son and have been bad mouthing him and spreading rumors about him.  We have our strong suspicions of who it is, but cannot actually prove it.  Grant it, our son is a standout player, is very passionate about the game (vocal sometimes when he should shut his mouth, but that's not his style) and is strong willed, so sometimes those traits rub people the wrong way.  Problem is, there are politics everywhere you go, and this team is no exception.  The coach is very soft spoken and very inexperienced and does not know how to handle players or situations, which makes it worse!  It's making this season and team very unenjoyable.  So, I understand where you are coming from and hope you guys can get it worked out - for your son's sake.

Man, this is a toughy.  Transferring is a larger decision in my mind.  Yes, doing so will likely solve all or some of the problem, but does that necessary make it the best decision?  Maybe, maybe not.  Your son just won't be changing baseball programs; he'll be changing everything about his HS experience.  So I don't think you take this lightly or rush into anything.  I recommend you zoom way out and look at all it from a broader view and inject far more perspective into it and your decision.

In terms perspective, I'd go talk with as many people as you can.  The coach/es, AD and even the parents.  A tough thing to do, but I'd argue it's worth it.  There MAY be some misunderstandings going on, but you won't know that unless you run to it.  INspect, don't EXpect.

I'm with some others who feel like there are missing pieces to this puzzle, but I have no clue what they are.  If your son is really as good as he sounds, I think the problem will fix itself in time.  Absolutely some parents will get butt hurt, but you know who LOVES really good players?  Other really good players and coaches.  Those 2 factions always want the best because they want to win.  I've seen teams my son has been on all of a sudden love a kid they used to "hate."  What changed?  The kid is now on THEIR team.  What?  He's a stud and can now help us win?  We love that guy!

It's been my experience that freshmen HS ball is weird.  With my son's experience 4 years ago, you ended up with a LOT of butt hurt players (my son was one of them) and parents who felt their freshman was a shoe in to make JV and possibly varsity.  There were people who figured my son and one other freshman had decent shots at making varsity as freshmen.  My son made the freshman team and the other one made JV.  Neither were even close to making varsity.  But the cream eventually rises to the top.  If you're good enough, you can't be overlooked over very long.  In my son's case, he was bumped up to JV between spring ball his freshmen year and summer legion ball (which run concurrent).  Halfway through his sophomore spring, he became varsity's starting SS and was 3rd in AVG.  So the buzz saw shock my son ran in to was fairly short-lived.

You've got to do what you feel is best, but I'd make transferring literally the last choice on the list.  At least to start out with.  Sometimes staying and grinding through the muck and adversity produces a better end product.

Your son is very fortunate that you (parents) can afford to send him to a private school. That being said, if it sucks, why not go elsewhere? You are the customer making a financial commitment to your son's private high schoool. Given that your son  is only a freshman, if it is as bad as you describe, I would look for greener pastures....understanding that the "pasture" you're looking for should be rock solid for the next 3 years (no way to be 100% sure of that). Good luck!

What happens next if you change schools and the new situation is the same or worse?

@RJM posted:

What happens next if you change schools and the new situation is the same or worse?

Right. And that's why I ventured on to this forum, to try to find out how unusual or not our situation is.  Seems like from the replies the situation is unusual, although not unheard of.

One caution I would give you is that many of the posters on this site have sons who were starters, on varsity from freshman year, etc.  When I look at your posts, it's not quite clear to me whether you are more upset about the social issues, or about who is getting playing time.

There are many, many posts on here (at least once a year) from people who feel their son was not getting the playing time he should, was not on varsity when he should be, that the coach was playing less talented players, there was politics, there was pay-to-play, etc.  That is very common.

Thanks. We aren't concerned about playing time - more would be nice but that's not what's compelling us to seek options. It's the social dynamics within the team and how those have translated into a very lonely freshman year for my son. We can't understand why he hasn't made any friends at this school, and why he's being excluded from parties, weekend pickup games, etc. We've had limited interaction with the other parents, coaches, administrators, etc. So unfortunately the only thing we can see that makes sense is jealousy and spite.

@RHP posted:

Thanks. We aren't concerned about playing time - more would be nice but that's not what's compelling us to seek options. It's the social dynamics within the team and how those have translated into a very lonely freshman year for my son. We can't understand why he hasn't made any friends at this school, and why he's being excluded from parties, weekend pickup games, etc. We've had limited interaction with the other parents, coaches, administrators, etc. So unfortunately the only thing we can see that makes sense is jealousy and spite.

Is this a K-12, 7-12 or 9-12 school? Given Covid there could be reasonable explanations for the social situation.

@RJM posted:

Is this a K-12, 7-12 or 9-12 school? Given Covid there could be reasonable explanations for the social situation.

high school

9-12