Back Spin

why would you swing down at a ball that is already traveling down?

if you know a player who is good enough to put "english" (backspin) on any given pitch... you have a gold mine...

what if you swing down and hit the ball solid? (back-half middle)... then you hit it right where the pitching coach wanted the pitcher to get you to hit it...

DRD, you may want to think of it in terms of swinging directly to & through the ball.

To answer your question, backspin does help the ball carry farther.

Deviled eggs, making contact with the ball even slightly below its centerline will produce backspin. Backspin is more a result of a swing type, rather than a deliberate effort on any given pitch.

Devilraydude, What you really wanta do is get your barrel on the same plane as the ball as soon as you can in the swing. While staying connected and with proper rotation. Swinging down is an age old "Cue" to keep someone from swinging with a colapsed backside and swing up. The longer you have your barrel on ball plane the better your chance for success.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
Devilraydude, What you really wanta do is get your barrel on the same plane as the ball as soon as you can in the swing. While staying connected and with proper rotation.

That is a great way to phrase the concept.

to the contrary dog!

oh yes they do! You must not be watching ML hitters. They get the barrel to ball plane while the bat is still behind them. Its called bat lag and something that all great hitters have.

I'd be interested in what you think they do!

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

quote:

The longer you have your barrel on ball plane the better your chance for success.

Anyone who believes this, doesn't understand what constitutes a high level swing......Just being honest.....

Bluedog - now going after Ted Williams? LOL

You need a high level introduction to the real game - no aluminum allowed Pokey.

LOL

Glad you see it itsinthegame. Congrats!

My understanding that the hitter will adjust his posture in establishing a swing plane to a pre-determined point of contact.

Read the post up top ITS. Congrats to the D man!

Vance34, are you back-peddling in the backspin thread. Shep Knows

Vance,

That is what is amazing about the game.

Even a newcomer like me can see a few things.

You know - I think I like this game. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
I'd be interested in what you think they do!

Based on his history, I don't think BD will lay out -from start to finish - the mechanics he teaches.

Bluedog sounds like N Y M A N. It might be N Y M A N. A pitched ball has a plane and curveballs have different planes.

Shep, where did I back pedal?

Not a problem Vance. You are da man. Do read my post up there in the other thread though. Peace brother, Shep

PS (The pro vs College thread)

I have a graph to show you. Just don't know how to post it here.

To get backspin on the ball you have to swing downward to the ball. If you swing upward (uppercut) then u get topspin which doesnt do much for you. Backspin cuts through the air better which goes farther.

Shortstop, and why you will not play very long! You keep swinging down and you'll be done soon. However if you get the barrel behind the hands and in that path then you may have a chance. You don't want a steep downward swing nor do you want an upper cut swing. You want a flat swing.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
If a pitch breaks horizontally and vertically, what does the plane look like?.....

Doggie,

I am going to do a "Doggie". Answer a question with a question. LOL

How many miniature baseball players can you fit on the head of a pin?

LOL

One more:

Why cant I ever open a box of Cheerios without messing up the plastic container inside?

LOL

Blue Dog

have you looked in the mirror ?-- most have figured you out ---

TR HIT. Stick to getting kids to turn down 4 million dollars and go to school. Your clueless in the hitting thread!

Vance

Outside of you trying to convince kids to give up college and go pro I would say you have no idea as to what the REAL WORLD is like out there--all you see is $$$$$$-

You have no idea as to what I know or do not know about hitting other than I prefer ONE ON ONE hitting instruction with live bodies not words and clamation dolls in cyberspace

I know plenty of scouts, and real good ones--they do not spend any time doing what you do---I am not even sure you are a full time scout---the guys I know dont put themselves in the position you do where you bicker with all comers-- the guys I know respect their positions and dont need to do what you do

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:

To get backspin on the ball, the ball must be struck below the center.....Swinging down or up, doesn't come into play in that equation, at all.....

Is it even possible to swing up on a ball and get backspin (and hit the ball in fair territory)? I can see if the swing plane is slightly above level but not if it's a 35 degree plane as suggested.

TR HIT. Most scouts know that telling people how it really is isn't worth the time nor effort. I see it different.

For me its not about the money.

quote:

all you see is $$$$$$-

its not me who just see's the money. its the parents and the players!

quote:

You have no idea as to what I know or do not know about hitting other than I prefer ONE ON ONE hitting instruction with live bodies not words and clamation dolls in cyberspace

But what I do know. Is that what you regurgitate here about hitting is the same thing you would one on one. And thats not good!

And another question, whether swinging down or up at the ball.... do you want the hit to have backspin? My son has been taught to hit the bottom half of the ball to generate backspin. Is this correct?

Backspin does help the ball carry. The ideal hit is a line drive with some backspin.

Agree with Texan that backspin does help the ball carry and is ideal on most hits. But...

It is not ideal to swing down in order to create the spin. Any carry that is added will be negated by the lack of force produced by swinging down.

A ball should be met squarely to produce the maximum amount of force. In other words, if you want to produce force in a 10 degree upward angle (line drive over the SS head), the bat should collide with the ball at that 10 degree upward angle.

Picture hitting a forehand in tennis. If your goal was to hit the ball at maximum force, you would meet the ball squarely and direct the racket in the line of intended flight (just over the top of the net, slightly up). If your goal is to create backspin, you swing down and "cut" the ball. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a finesse shot. The more the racket moves away from the intended flight (racket going down, ball going up), the less force is transferred to the ball.

Besides all this, according to Robert Adair's "The Physics of Baseball", the maximum amount that backspin will add is 15 feet to a 400 ft fly ball. So the maximum amount that this magical backspin can "carry" a ball is less than 4% when compared to a ball with no spin. I've heard instructors tell kids that backspin will add over 100 feet!

Play this clip frame by frame: http://www.youthbaseballcoaching.com/mpg/nomar3.mpeg

Look at the the frames right before contact until the ball leaves the screen. The ball and the bat are travelling at the exact same (upward) angle through the hitting zone. This is the case in over 90% of line drives/home runs in MLB. This is more important to driving a ball than attempting to produce spin.

quote:

And another question, whether swinging down or up at the ball.... do you want the hit to have backspin? My son has been taught to hit the bottom half of the ball to generate backspin. Is this correct?

Well Well. Beezer. My 1st post. I learned of this site from Steve E. He called and asked me if I was someone on this site already. I didn't know what he was talking about. So I have been just reading post.

Beezer......what you wanta do is center the ball. Hit the ball in the center of the ball and with the center of the bat.

If your swing is correct and your barrel is flat through the zone, much like what Vance said, with the barrel behind the hands and in that path. Then you will have the best chance to do that. Back spin is a by product of a lofted ball that will carry and sometimes for hoemruns. But it is also will result with having good line drives and very hard hit groundballs. You can have backspin with all those balls. Not just a ball in the air.

Your goal should be to center the ball with every swing of the bat. Hit the ball square.

Hope that helps.

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuilder:

quote:

And another question, whether swinging down or up at the ball.... do you want the hit to have backspin? My son has been taught to hit the bottom half of the ball to generate backspin. Is this correct?

Well Well. Beezer. My 1st post. I learned of this site from Steve E. He called and asked me if I was someone on this site already. I didn't know what he was talking about. So I have been just reading post.

Beezer......what you wanta do is center the ball. Hit the ball in the center of the ball and with the center of the bat.

If your swing is correct and your barrel is flat through the zone, much like what Vance said, with the barrel behind the hands and in that path. Then you will have the best chance to do that. Back spin is a by product of a lofted ball that will carry and sometimes for hoemruns. But it is also will result with having good line drives and very hard hit groundballs. You can have backspin with all those balls. Not just a ball in the air.

Your goal should be to center the ball with every swing of the bat. Hit the ball square.

Hope that helps.

If you hit a ground ball with backspin, you are a downswinger and have a swing that is not going to get you very far unless you run a 3.80 down the line.

quote:

Originally posted by swingbuilder:
Well Well. Beezer. My 1st post. I learned of this site from Steve E. He called and asked me if I was someone on this site already. I didn't know what he was talking about. So I have been just reading post.

Do I know you or Steve?

FIRST OF ALL I AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE WITH ANYBODY AS I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS ONE CORRECT WAY TO HIT.

ALLS I KNOW IS THAT I WORKED WITH FORMER MARINERS THIRD BASE COACH DAVE MYERS OVER THE WINTER AND THE SWING HE TAUGHT ME WAS TO SWING DOWN ON THE BALL TO CREATE BACKSPIN HE MUST HAVE TOLD ME BACK SPIN LINE DRIVES 1,000 TIMES ALONG WITH SHORT THRU LONG THRU

LOOK AT TINO MARTINEZ AND A-ROD SWING THE BAT

quote:

Originally posted by Max:
FIRST OF ALL I AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE WITH ANYBODY AS I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS ONE CORRECT WAY TO HIT.

ALLS I KNOW IS THAT I WORKED WITH FORMER MARINERS THIRD BASE COACH DAVE MYERS OVER THE WINTER AND THE SWING HE TAUGHT ME WAS TO SWING DOWN ON THE BALL TO CREATE BACKSPIN HE MUST HAVE TOLD ME BACK SPIN LINE DRIVES 1,000 TIMES ALONG WITH SHORT THRU LONG THRU

LOOK AT TINO MARTINEZ AND A-ROD SWING THE BAT

Max, Post a clip of a good Major League hitter swinging down on the ball........I will wait patiently to see it. You create backspin by hitting the ball below its center, not by swinging down.

DAMMIT THAT SHOULD BE SHORT TO LONG THRU

SIR LIKE I SAID I AM NOT HERE TO ARGUE IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE YOU CAN ARGUE WITH DAVE MYERS HE TAUGHT ME THE SWING IT WORKED FOR ME I HIT THE BALL OUT OF CENTER FIELD AT VASHON ISLAND WHICH WAS OVER 370

Where are you playing now? College? Pro?

I think we need to remember that not all verbal cues can be taken literally.

Max - Can you change the ALL CAPS???

I AM A JUNIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL

BY THE WAY DAVE IS A GREAT GUY AND WOULD PROBABLY BE GLAD TO DISCUSS THIS WITH ANY OF YOU

YOU CAN REACH HIM THRU HERE

http://www.aquasox.com/

Doug. HAHAHAHAHAHA